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11-01-2005, 09:33 AM
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#1 |
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I'm all there is
Posts: 31,811
  
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Kind of Agree with Austin here (Spoilers)
yea, so if you've heard the news reports you know Austin didn't show up last night on Raw or isn't planning to work the PPV because Coach was suppossed to go over at the PPV. Mark Henry was suppossed to interfere on Coach's behalf and cause Austin's loss.
Thinking about the booking here, I think it's insane to have Austin job to an announcer on a PPV. I mean, here's your biggest star over the past decade or whatever, that can still draw $$$ when used in short term angles and here he is putting over a fucking announcer. Austin should be used to put over guys that are the future of the promotion, not to put over guys who won't help the promotion business wise in a dam way. Now if this was any wrestler that mattered, even Masters  , I would be kind of pissed at him for walking, but jobbing to Coach would of been ridiculous.My 2 cents. |
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11-01-2005, 09:46 AM
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#2 |
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Shadow Conspircy leader
Posts: 18,582
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I have to agree with you there LC. Mostly because I think the WWE's writing staff is just...utterly stupid. This has to be the dumbest...ok, one of the stupidest ideas to come out from that group of retards.
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11-01-2005, 09:51 AM
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1/2 Optimist 1/2 Amazing
Posts: 12,427
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You are all missing the bigger picture here people! JR isn't coming back! WOOHOOOOOO!
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11-01-2005, 10:13 AM
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#4 |
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Obviously, I'm a Austin fan. So I might be a little biased, but that was BS. I'm glad Austin decided to walk. He doesn't have to put up with the crap coming from Vince and his team of retards. That match at TT would have only dilluded Austin's character anyways. Good fo him for walking. Because at this point, the message needs to be heard. It's obvious Austin hasn't liked what has been coming out of the creative team either.
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11-01-2005, 10:34 AM
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#5 |
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Guest
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He comes and goes so often there's no way i'd put Austin over Coach
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11-01-2005, 10:38 AM
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#6 |
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Look Into My Eyes
Posts: 227
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just glad somehow his first match in 2 and a half years wont be against an announcer
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11-01-2005, 10:47 AM
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...IN HD!!!!
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11-01-2005, 10:56 AM
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#8 |
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...IN HD!!!!
Posts: 23,327
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*Vince McMahon and Steve Austin are discussing Taboo Tuesday*
Vince: Steve, I think it'd be in the best interest of our company that since J.R. isn't going to be back at the announce table anytime soon, we want you to put The Coach over at Taboo Tuesday. Austin: What? Vince: Now don't get me wrong, Coach isn't going to win cleanly. He's going to have help. Austin: So who is going to help him? You? Vince: No. Austin: What? Shane? Vince: Who? Austin: Your son. Vince: Triple H? Austin: No, Shane McMahon you asshole! Vince: Ohhhh him. No. Austin: Stephanie? Vince: No. It's not a McMahon. Austin: Mae Young's other hand? Vince: No. Austin: Well then who, damnit?!?! Vince:....Mark Henry. Austin: WHAT? So you mean to tell me that Hulk Hogan can walk his crippled ass out and beat not only an up and comer like Muhammad Hassan, but also a n icon like HBK...cleanly I might add. Yet, I can't even beat a god damned announcer AND a guy who is nothing more than a out of shape walking injury waiting to happen, cleanly?!?!??! Vince...you can go fuck yourself. *Austin leaves* |
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11-01-2005, 11:39 AM
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#9 | |
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Quote:
only way this angle with coach would've made since would have been "Hollywood Hulk Hogan" in black and white with the black beard coming out and costing Austin his match with coach setting up their match for later on with Hogan as the heel...  I totally agree also with the Hassan and HBK comments you put in there too...I was at Summer Slam and was f'ing pissed that HBK jobbed clean...THEN had to shake his damn hand ending his heel run! Austin was NOT wrong in this situation...this is like Mick Foley coming back every year and every time he is on TV he gets his ass kicked...it's made him look weak in my opinion |
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11-01-2005, 11:54 AM
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#10 |
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Soundly Defeated Wadding
Posts: 40,590
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I don't agree at all. They weren't going to job him to put over Coach. They were going to job him to progress a storyline.
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11-01-2005, 12:11 PM
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#11 |
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TPWW's Glass Ceiling
Posts: 5,793
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A ridiculous storyline, involving a horrible "announcer" and a fat washed-up wannabe wrestler / strongman, who should've been fired years ago. Vince really knows how to spot them talents and sign them to 200 year deals
Austin is ABSOLUTELY right in this situation. This would make him look weak for any future angles, and is just ANOTHER example of how close to death WWE really is with their writing and such. It would make him look like another one of the losers WWE has turned people like Foley and Flair into - but you can't blame WWE, because these people let it happen to them. Props to Austin for doing what is good for him. |
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11-01-2005, 12:12 PM
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#12 |
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FIT Challenge Slag People
Posts: 13,816
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I would agree with him...
...except this isn't the first time he's done this. You can't pick and choose who you lose to, especially if you're not an active competitor. If you want to do that, start your own promotion (*cough*JeffJarrett*cough*). I still think, though, that Austin gets involved at TT, saving Batista from Vader and Goldust. Just a hunch. |
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11-01-2005, 12:18 PM
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TPWW's Glass Ceiling
Posts: 5,793
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Booking-wise, if you're not an active wrestler, you usually can pick and choose who you're willing to put over - because usually the reason you're not an active wrestler is by choice, and you coming back in any capacity is doing the company a favor [otherwise they'd not want you back], so you have the leverage to decide that.
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11-01-2005, 01:33 PM
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WOOOOOOOOO!
Posts: 12,237
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I can understand where Austin is coming from but if you look at it this way it might not seem so bad: It took an interferance from Mark Henry for Coach to beat him, so he doesn't lose heat.
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11-01-2005, 01:43 PM
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YesYesYes!
Posts: 4,163
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I agree and disagree. It would be a bunch of crap that one of the biggest names in the WWE would have to put over an announcer, something even Eugene didn't have to do. Because most likely JR isn't coming back anyways.
But since Austin will always be my favorite all time wrestler, I am kinda pissed off that he walked out again. But hopefully this sends a message to the writing team of how fucked up they are. |
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11-01-2005, 01:50 PM
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#16 |
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FIT Challenge Slag People
Posts: 13,816
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But did he honestly think that they would abandon the "JR is fired" storyline so soon? He had to know that he was being brought back to lose to further the angle. It was obvious from the moment the match was announced.
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11-01-2005, 01:54 PM
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#17 |
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Soundly Defeated Wadding
Posts: 40,590
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Austin is a poor sport. That's all it really comes down to.
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11-01-2005, 01:58 PM
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#18 |
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Okay, here's a question. What if the finish had actually had Henry, Vader, AND Goldust helping the Coach?
I know Austin used to get to "beat the odds" and all, but I don't think that despite the fact that they're all past their prime, losing due to interference from all THREE of them, plus Coach (who, honestly, has shown some athleticism when he wrestles) isn't exactly HORRIBLE. |
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11-01-2005, 01:58 PM
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Posts: 335
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They should have brought someone up from OVW. Whoever was ready and considered to be a hot prospect for the future. That way at least as LC says someone with a future with the company would of went over and not coachman.
For me putting coachman over is a waste of time, i mean putting Batista over doesn't really do anything for me either because he's a Smackdown talent for a start.  It just seemed to be all thrown together, i mean i liked it because it had suprises and freshened things up bringing back Goldust and Vader. But who exactly is this angle going to put over? I dont care for Austin much but i cant deny he draws good crowds and the fans love him, he deserved a lot better than a match with coachman considering his careers practically over now and he hasn't wrestled for over a year. Someone said Taz, that would of made more sense than Batista, hell even RVD would have made more sense than Batista (think ONS) 
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11-01-2005, 03:05 PM
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1-0 TPWW Chess Master
Posts: 17,211
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You know look at it, they lost Austin and X-tian heading into Taboo Tuesday. It's a shame really
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11-01-2005, 03:31 PM
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I'm all there is
Posts: 31,811
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yea, I agree with what Kayfabe Man was saying about making him look weak for future angles. I always talk about perception of the audience on here. Perception is a huge part of wrestling and how the audience sees characters, storylines, etc.. With a guy like Austin, he's one of the few guys that can actually draw and put guys over in the short term. You book him in idiotic angles like this where he's losing to anouncers and you know what that does? It makes Austin look like just another ordinary wrestler. Austin's value goes down just a little bit more. And with a larger then life character like Stone Cold, you're just slowly killing his value each time you do things like this. Look at Ric Flair. You think he's got any value to his character left anymore?
Guys like Austin, like Hogan, like Rock, like Goldberg etc.. need to be put in spots where they can help the company financially for short term success and long term success. A perfect example is Foley. His angle with Orton was nothing short of brilliant and I would argue he was solely responsible for making Orton. He took Orton and put him in the limelight. That program drew short term and it established Orton in the long term. Now he's doing a deal with Carlito. Not as good IMO so far. but at least it's helping establish someone that's worthy. And I would argue these programs DO NOT make Foley look weak. It's very realistic to have youth overcome age. That happens all the time in real life. And when you have characters that have been built up like an Orton and a Carlito to an extent, it makes the results more credible. |
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11-01-2005, 03:37 PM
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Enlarged Member
Posts: 2,070
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Did Vince and Co. really believe Austin would go through with this?
I'm not a big fan of creative control, but surely Austin would have to be taken out by someone more substantial than Mark F'n Henry. Give me Hogan (to set up WM) or Brock and I would agree that Austin was an ass for pulling out of the PPV, but Sexual Chocolate.... |
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11-01-2005, 03:47 PM
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#23 |
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I'm all there is
Posts: 31,811
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^was literally just thinking the same thing. If this were used to set up something like Hogan/Austin, then I probably would of had no problem with it. I probably still would of gave Coach a DQ win instead of a pin though. Like Hogan comes in and attacks Austin. Coach gets a chair. Austin nails Coach. Austin goes to hit Hogan, but Hogan gets out and Austin nails Coach with the chair, while the ref sees, causing a DQ for Austin.
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11-01-2005, 04:31 PM
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#24 |
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The Satanic Mechanic
Posts: 52,521
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They could just bleach Mark Henry's hair, put him in a thong and have him run Austin down in a car. "I did it for the Coach."
I doubt most people would even notice the difference. |
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11-01-2005, 04:43 PM
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I have no gimmick
Posts: 1,088
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I'd have had The Rock do the interference. But thats mainly because I wish he'd come back.
Austin was right to leave though, Im guessing the WWE writing team aren't open to compromise. That's if he tried of course. |
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11-01-2005, 04:50 PM
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#26 |
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I just had a thought..
It could be a huge Swerve Think about it.. |
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11-01-2005, 06:19 PM
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11-01-2005, 06:34 PM
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#28 |
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I'm not really looking forward to this PPV anymore. I think the main attraction was Austin. It was advertised, people ordered it, and now he won't even be there. This sucks.
Also if the whole JR stipulation is gone, then why is Coach even fighting? |
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11-01-2005, 06:38 PM
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He's Here
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11-01-2005, 06:40 PM
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11-01-2005, 06:41 PM
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He's Here
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11-01-2005, 06:43 PM
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#32 | |
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Posts: 335
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Quote:
 Well there's no need to do that Fubar.Somethings not quite right about all this, i have a feeling somethings going to happen with Austin in some shape or form its just a feeling in my stomach. Ive watched wrestling too long to know when somethings not quite right. It might just be because the whole Vader, Goldust, Batista thing was done last minute and seemed a bit odd but with Joey Styles being their tonight.. i just think somethings going down we dont know about.
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11-01-2005, 06:52 PM
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#33 |
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Soundly Defeated Wadding
Posts: 40,590
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IT IS NOT A WORK, YOU MORONS. I'm sick of saying this shit. Everytime something big happens, some idiot always thinks it is a work. Austin thinks he's hot shit so he bowed out on his obligation... That's all that happened.
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11-01-2005, 06:54 PM
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#34 |
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Boss
Posts: 17,611
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Well fasten your seatbelts, pull out your ear plugs, or simply just scroll down the page till I am finished, cause here comes another "Classic The One™" (by the way thanks for coin-ing that phrase JamesSteele) post that takes up more room then it should.
This was a tough one for me, because the respect the company that made you side of me is absolutly PISSED about this. Vince McMahon gave Steve Williams the platform to perform his craft. No he didn't walk up to Steve and tell him we are going to call you "Stone Cold" infact in all honesty he did quite the opposite and threw his arms up and said "I don't know" and let Steve do his own thing. But that doesn't take away from the fact that Vince McMahon and the entire WWE Corperation gave him the chance to be what he is today. From that stand point, yeah I don't think it is too much to ask that a man who has recieved checks in the millions or dollars lay his back to the mat for 3 seconds and let someone else pin him. After all we are no longer in the day in age where someone's worth in the ring is based on the number of victories he holds (please see: Christian). This is an art form where honestly you could lose 20 matches in a row, and if booked right you could win the big gold belt later on. The Rock lost far more matches then he won (according to my shaddy memory) in 2000 which is when he was widely considered to be the most over person on the planet. Gone are the days where you had to have a 3 year unbeaten streak against a bunch of hired jobbers in order to be a huge deal. This is scripted television. If an actor like Russel Crowe (I use him for his "loose cannon" real life persona) signed a deal to make a 2 episode apperence for Law & Order (or insert any show you wish here) and on the second episode it's scripted for him to get beat up by a 12 year old boy, people would scratch their heads and magazines would write for months about how unprofessional Russell was for not doing what the script called for. It's totally bullshit that he refuses to do what he is booked to do. More then that people get on Warrior's ass because if he didn't like how things where booked an either walked off or asked for more money, he is painted as the devil in person. HOWEVER...unlike a television show, this is a media form that takes winning and losing very seriously. And this isn't like a TV show where a script is a script and it's just that simple. This is an artform in which the object is to give people the same type of feeling they get from a sporting event, only add in storylines, gimmicks, and angle that a franchise like NHL or NFL can't provide. And while it is true that Stone Cold has recieved checks in the millions of dollars from WWE & Vince McMahon, HE is also the reason that WWE and Vince McMahon had BILLIONS of dollars to spend. It would be impossible to say that one man single handedly took a company on the verge of backruptcy and made them one of the biggest turn arounds in company history...but let me go ahead and say it anyway. Without Stone Cold Steve Austin, the WWE wouldn't be around right now. Unlike the ra in which Vince McMahon gave Hogan a gimmick and told people to lay down for him, Steve created his own character, took himself from a midcrader at best, a made him the face of pro wrestling. His promos, his attitude, and simply put his charisma saved WWE. He has been through enough lay downs for lesser men in the past, and while no he can't wrestle every Monday night for them, if booked the correct way he could being in many many many more millions for a comapny that is sorely in need of it. And I doubt that if he lays down for an announcer, who doesn't even deserve to be an announcer, he will have that same draw or pull to those who go along for the ride, and in many ways treat this as an actual sport. Which brings me to my next point. Jonathan Coachman. At professional wrestling's peak, WrestleMania X-Seven, Stone Cold Steve Austin won the World Wrestling Federation (wow been a while since I typed that) Title off of The Rock in a Main Event that had the biggest swerve (yeah we all knew it was coming, but still it was HUGE) of all time. Jonathan Coachman was seen for 2 minutes interviewing some fat chick from Australia who flew across the entire globe to see Steve Austin in a match. I don't like Coach, honestly I think the business would be better off had he never stumbled ass backwards into it. But since he is here we might as well make the most of it...but that doesn't mean you make the biggest thing to come down wrestling lane in over a decade lay down for him. Hell even when JR, an announcer who had the fan base OF an actual wrestler, won matches, it was on RAWs and there was alot of help from ACTUAL main event stars. Mark Henry is not a superstar, he is not a star, he barley can call himself a wrestler. There was ONE time in his entire career I enjoyed his work...let me correct myself...enjoyed the product in the ring when he happened to be in the ring at the same time and that was when he was teaming with D'Lo. As far as I am concered, it would be Coach, Henry, and Goldust in the ring in a 3 on one and Austin should still walk out with an easy victory. Vader, I have a certain level of respect for so I don't want to throw him in that batch of losers, but I don't think he should be able to cost Austin a win either. So where does that leave us? On one hand, we have a hired professional who is hired to lay down for someone else, on the other hand the idea is so fucking stupid that the Nick Jr. writer (I can only assume that the Nickalodean guy purposed this) should be thrown in a bar with Steve Williams and let them figure it out. Every fiber of my being is screaming to say that Steve did that right thing and he doesn't need to sit down and be insulted like that...but let me purpose this... If this was Triple H, if this was Hardcore Holly, or if this was Chris Masters (ironically all heels, but work with me anyway) were asked to do the job for Coach, would we all still be so outraged. I know personally I thought it was bullshit the way Austin handled this similar situation with Scott Hall back at X-8...but he was a wrestler who had a chance to make an impact, Coach does not. But the fact remains, Austin is a Sport Entertainer. He is not a wrestler, he is not a shooter, he is a Sport Entertainer. Granted we have seen how the legecies of Terry Funk, Mick Foley, and countless others have been ruined by doing one too many jobs after their retirement...but that is what this business calls for. Vince McMahon gave Austin the ball knowing he could make money then, now that the "ball" is in the hands of others, doesn't Vince still have the right to ask that he do things out of his comfort zone to get the product out there some? I agree it's bullshit what they are asking him to do, but so is asking us to beleive that a man like Big Show could be beaten in real life by a guy like Rey Mysterio...and we would buy that no problem. Sorry Austin, but at the end of the day, your noting being professional. Not now, not at Mania X-8...I sympathise, but bite your lip and do the job you were fucking hired too do. Next time don't agree to make those million dollar apperences until you know you can do them no matter what they ask for. |
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11-01-2005, 07:04 PM
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#35 |
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Soundly Defeated Wadding
Posts: 40,590
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One
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11-01-2005, 07:16 PM
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#36 | |
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He's Here
Posts: 60,735
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Awesome, One. *Slow claps*
However, I would like to point one thing out. Quote:
Granted, I and everyone else doesn't know where they would have taken it, but if it he wasn't going to get JR back, fuck it. This is more of an issue with horrible storyline and booking plans than anything else. The fact is, Austin (and MAYBE Christian) has been the only one who has stood up to the WWE's horribly retarded booking, and I respect him for that. |
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11-01-2005, 07:19 PM
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#37 |
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One i agree 100%.
 Brilliant post.. long but brilliant. I agree with The Warrior getting a bad name when really the likes of Brock, Goldberg and Austin have been worse than him. Warrior at one point was great pal's with Shane Mcmahon and at that point everything was great between him and Vince and the WWE. But when Vince seen how close Shane and The Warrior was he went nuts and he made Warriors life a lot tougher than it was before. So i think in a way Vince almost drove the Warrior to make those decisions because Hogan was earning a fortune and at that point Warrior was the future of the company - Around the time of Wrestlemania 6. Im not going to go crazy on Austin at this point because i still feel this could be some kind of work, either that or he just doesn't feel that the angle he's in warrants his blood, sweat and tears considering his friend J.R will not get his job back whether he went over Coachman or not. I think Austins temperamental, he's showed that with the Brock incident on Raw and more recently with pulling out of Taboo Tuesday and Raw. In my opinion he should finish what he started otherwise it just doesn't seem right to me. Watching Raw with the Coach, Vader, and Goldust segment just seemed thrown together to me. Austin no showing and Batista suddenly taking his place just didn't ring true with me. I can understand Austin wanting to do something better than wrestle The Coach because he's winding down his career much like Hogan is now. Injuries and age are catching up with them and they dont want to ruin their reputation with a bad match, they have to wrestle someone that can almost work the match for them. Coach cant work the match for Austin. Plus Austin going over or loosing to the Coach doesn't really do anything for Austin anyway. Austins in a no win situation now, he looks weak for no showing but he would have looked weaker if The Coach went over him. Im still kind of on the fence on this one but i still believe if your paid well to do a job you should just do the damn job. Brilliant post 'The One' and like i say i totally agree with what you've said.
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11-01-2005, 11:12 PM
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#38 |
Posts: 18,357
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This is just a case of both sides being idiotic. I'd take Austin's side though. I'm willing to accept that he didn't know he was going to job to Coach when all was said and done.
To have your most popular star of the last decade job to a crappy announcer is just idiocy. Yup, the writing team's reached a new low. |
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11-01-2005, 11:17 PM
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#39 |
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Spammy Certified
Posts: 46,115
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He shouldn't have left, Debat was ahead by 50% until batista was announced as the Replacement.
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11-01-2005, 11:17 PM
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#40 |
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FIT Challenge Slag People
Posts: 13,816
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I know it's terrible writing, but it's what had to happen from the moment it was booked. JR just had colon surgery, for Christ's sake. No way he gets his job back tonight. This is just another example of Austin being Austin as far as I'm concerned.
And that is not a good thing. |
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