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Old 11-30-2005, 11:06 PM   #1
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Exclamation Thornton Traded To The San Jose Sharks



Canadian Press
11/30/2005 10:18:10 PM

Joe Thornton is headed to the West Coast.

The Boston Bruins shipped the superstar forward to San Jose for forwards Wayne Primeau and Marco Sturm and defenceman Brad Stuart.

Thornton, 26, is a three-time all-star who had nine goals and 24 assists in 23 games this season for the Bruins. The six-foot-four, 223-pound power forward is due to make $6.66 million US this year.

"He is a leader who scores points and makes other players around him better," Sharks general manager Doug Wilson said in a statement. "To get a player of this calibre, you have to give up something to get something. You would make this trade last month, this month or next year. It follows our philosophy of making our team better for this year and next year."

Thornton, the first overall pick in the 1997 NHL entry draft, adds instant scoring punch to a struggling Sharks offence that ranks near the bottom of the league with just 62 goals scored. Thornton, the cousin of Sharks forward Scott Thornton, has 169 goals, 285 assists and 617 penalty minutes in 532 career games. The London, Ont., native had a career-high 101 points (36-65) in 2002-03.

Sturm, a six-foot, 195-pound left-wing, has six goals and 10 assists in 23 games for San Jose. The native of Germany was one of the more consistent forwards for the Sharks, scoring 20 or more goals over the past three seasons.
Sturm has 128 goals and 145 assists in seven-plus seasons with the Sharks, and has represented Germany in two Olympics and three World Cups.

Stuart, of Rocky Mountain House, Alta. has two goals and 10 assists in 23 games this season. The 26-year-old defenceman was selected by San Jose in the 1998 NHL entry draft in the first round, third overall. He has 36 goals and 117 assists in 377 career games with the Sharks.

Primeau, the younger brother of Philadelphia Flyers forward Keith Primeau, had five goals and three assists in 21 games.

The Bruins will save over $1.5 million in the deal, with Sturm making $2 million, Stuart set to make $1.9 million and Primeau earning $1.1 million.


http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=145158&hubname=
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:10 PM   #2
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This is fucking terrible.

I knew he wasn't exactly happy and the Bruins wern't happy with him but FUCK! They could of got a bit more.

Stuart is a good defencemen and Sturm is a decent forward. Primeau ... meh. The offense is fucked now, Thornton was a HUGE part of it.

As a big Bruins fan I am disgusted by this trade.
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Old 12-01-2005, 01:19 AM   #3
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as I said in the NHL season thread

WORST TRADE EVER!!!

It probably would have been better to trade Thornton for 2 water bottles and a pair of skates lol
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Old 12-01-2005, 01:29 AM   #4
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Sturm and Stuart aren't bad, but Boston definitely got screwed.
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Old 12-01-2005, 03:11 AM   #5
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Sturm is quite good and Stuart is a strong defensemen, in this day and age where you get guys like Fedorov for Tyler Wright that's a pretty decent return.

This is nowhere near the worst trade ever too. Jesus christ calm down. Stuart brings a whole lot, and Sturm is pretty damn good. What do you want in return Patrick Marleau as well???
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Old 12-01-2005, 03:46 AM   #6
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lol

dammit, Sturm is on my fantasy team, gay ass boston
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Old 12-01-2005, 07:27 AM   #7
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The guys that Boston got are decent, but why give up your top scorer for a bunch of guys who are not very productive? If I was the Boston GM I would have tried to at least land Cheechoo in the deal.
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Old 12-01-2005, 03:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily
Sturm is quite good and Stuart is a strong defensemen, in this day and age where you get guys like Fedorov for Tyler Wright that's a pretty decent return.

This is nowhere near the worst trade ever too. Jesus christ calm down. Stuart brings a whole lot, and Sturm is pretty damn good. What do you want in return Patrick Marleau as well???

They didnt even get a prospect or draft pick..Sturm has had a 48 point season...Joe 100..you're taking away all the offensive production, and replacing it with two forwards that combined will not equal what he gets. Also consider the fact Joe sets up more goals for other players..he creates room for other players. You never lose a franchise player, and dont get something big back in return. They didnt even get a guy with the possibility of becoming elite. Sure, the Pens did the same with Jagr, but they couldnt at all afford him in those times, they had no choice.
On a financial scale, this deal doesnt even make sense..they save only about 1.8 million.

They got hosed.
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Old 12-01-2005, 03:08 PM   #9
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The "key" was the defensemen. There getting out scored, so you either try and score more, or allow less goals.

Also, I've heard mumbles that there is more to this story, such as Thorton ripping the coach a week ago, and Thorton on the Ice some nights looking like he didn't want to be there, getting crushed by players much smaller then him.
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Old 12-01-2005, 03:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o.
They didnt even get a prospect or draft pick..Sturm has had a 48 point season...Joe 100..you're taking away all the offensive production, and replacing it with two forwards that combined will not equal what he gets. Also consider the fact Joe sets up more goals for other players..he creates room for other players. You never lose a franchise player, and dont get something big back in return. They didnt even get a guy with the possibility of becoming elite. Sure, the Pens did the same with Jagr, but they couldnt at all afford him in those times, they had no choice.
On a financial scale, this deal doesnt even make sense..they save only about 1.8 million.

They got hosed.

Again horeshit, did they get equal value, no, but considering what other teams have been getting for their stars lately this is pretty damn decent. Hardly Boston getting hosed.
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Old 12-01-2005, 03:17 PM   #11
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There's been talk that other teams in the league had no idea that Thornton could be had and might have made better offers, the other side of course is, incase nothing happened, the Bruins didn't want anyone to know (especially Thornton) that he was on the block.
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Old 12-01-2005, 03:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily
Again horeshit, did they get equal value, no, but considering what other teams have been getting for their stars lately this is pretty damn decent. Hardly Boston getting hosed.

That was in the past, different cba and all. Stop looking back at that. Just recently, Heatley was traded, but they still got Hossa. That isnt bad, this is an elite player being traded for two guys who cant do what he could, and a defenseman, which is almost redundant considering they recently acquired Tanabe as well.

The thing is, they didnt even wait and negotiate with other teams. They could have done so much better for Joe. They talked exclusively with the Sharks. That is a fuck up, big time, by management.
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Old 12-01-2005, 04:06 PM   #13
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AWFUL trade.

Sure, Boston got some good players in return, but they gave up a guy who was a #1 draft pick, the team captain, and the cornerstone of the franchise.

You don't make trades like that.

Boston ownership had a personal vendetta against Thornton, claiming he wasn't a big money guy or a clutch guy, or whatever. This stemmed partly from his lack of contribution in the 2004 playoffs (during which he was playing with a serious shoulder injury.)

Again, this is not a trade that would normally be made. It was a personal issue between management and the player in question. Just awful.
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Old 12-01-2005, 05:49 PM   #14
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Personally I don't see what is so bad about this trade.

Did we lose our best offense player? Yes, but we gained one the the best defensemen in the league. There were times this season where I thought Joe seemed out of place on the team since he is a one-man team himself and his effort couldn't make anything happen cause we were getting killed on defense. At least with Stuart we have two solid defensemen on the 1st line and Sturm is a decent wing. I think there's a possibility of turning the season around if the team clicks.

I'm still gonna miss Joe.
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Old 12-01-2005, 05:58 PM   #15
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Apparently NHL 2006 wont let you do this trade because its so stupid.
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Old 12-01-2005, 06:51 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVP
Personally I don't see what is so bad about this trade.

Did we lose our best offense player? Yes, but we gained one the the best defensemen in the league. There were times this season where I thought Joe seemed out of place on the team since he is a one-man team himself and his effort couldn't make anything happen cause we were getting killed on defense. At least with Stuart we have two solid defensemen on the 1st line and Sturm is a decent wing. I think there's a possibility of turning the season around if the team clicks.

I'm still gonna miss Joe.
One of the best defensemen in the league? Not quite.... maybe in a few years. He's got potential though...Short term Boston isn't going to improve at all I think but maybe with the defensemen long term he might be an allstar.
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Old 12-01-2005, 07:29 PM   #17
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BTW Sturm scored a goal in his first minute in a Bruins uniform.
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Old 12-01-2005, 09:46 PM   #18
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WHOOOOOOO!
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Old 12-01-2005, 09:50 PM   #19
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Not for anything but this doesn't help the Bruins shitty season any
This guy was the one Bruin people recognized. It's the truth. Management must have really hated this fucking guy. I mean, come on. Like someone mentioned earlier you don't make trades like this. He's right. It makes management look, well mismanaged and letting personal grudges get in the way of what they think will help them win/make more money. They will regret this, mark my words. Close to 20 games in the bag and they lost 6 out of 10, this team is done.

Do people even watch the NHL?
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Old 12-01-2005, 11:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o.
That was in the past, different cba and all. Stop looking back at that. Just recently, Heatley was traded, but they still got Hossa. That isnt bad, this is an elite player being traded for two guys who cant do what he could, and a defenseman, which is almost redundant considering they recently acquired Tanabe as well.

The thing is, they didnt even wait and negotiate with other teams. They could have done so much better for Joe. They talked exclusively with the Sharks. That is a fuck up, big time, by management.
Yeah and this year alone, Roenick due to cap restrictions was gotten for nothing and Fedorov was acquired for Tyler Wright what's your point.
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Old 12-01-2005, 11:44 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axel84
This guy was the one Bruin people recognized. It's the truth. Management must have really hated this fucking guy. I mean, come on. Like someone mentioned earlier you don't make trades like this. He's right. It makes management look, well mismanaged and letting personal grudges get in the way of what they think will help them win/make more money. They will regret this, mark my words. Close to 20 games in the bag and they lost 6 out of 10, this team is done.

Do people even watch the NHL?
My point is not that it was necessarily a fantastic trade, merely that it's hardly a terrible return and nowhere near the worst trader ever!!!!

The true error in this is not the return but the fact that Thornton was not shopped around, that's lunacy.
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Old 12-02-2005, 01:16 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samichna
AWFUL trade.

Sure, Boston got some good players in return, but they gave up a guy who was a #1 draft pick, the team captain, and the cornerstone of the franchise.

You don't make trades like that.

Boston ownership had a personal vendetta against Thornton, claiming he wasn't a big money guy or a clutch guy, or whatever. This stemmed partly from his lack of contribution in the 2004 playoffs (during which he was playing with a serious shoulder injury.)

Again, this is not a trade that would normally be made. It was a personal issue between management and the player in question. Just awful.
exactly
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Old 12-02-2005, 09:22 AM   #23
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This is a terrible trade, and I don't even like Boston. It makes no sense no matter HOW you look at it. They didn't even save a bunch of cap space (like $1 million), so even that idea is out the window. Huge bonehead move by Boston
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Old 12-02-2005, 11:05 AM   #24
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word is the Blackhawks tried to get him, but the Bruins wanted NHL players, not prospects and that the Blackhawks GM was expecting a call back and then saw the trade.

Well, first game and they beat the best team in the league 4-0...

Might be a horrible trade, but if the Bruins go on a win streak, will be tough to argue.
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Old 12-02-2005, 04:08 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily
Yeah and this year alone, Roenick due to cap restrictions was gotten for nothing and Fedorov was acquired for Tyler Wright what's your point.

I wouldnt call any of those guys at this point in their careers franchise players or elite at all.
Trade away elite talent, you best at the least get something back with the potential to provide the same intnagibles and production.
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Old 12-02-2005, 04:34 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o.
I wouldnt call any of those guys at this point in their careers franchise players or elite at all.
Trade away elite talent, you best at the least get something back with the potential to provide the same intnagibles and production.
Fedorov has lost a step yes, but Roenick is still pretty strong a player.


The heatley/Hossa trade was an exception to the rule, you rarely see equal value shipped back for "elite" players, which I'm not convinced Thornton even is at this point, he isn't even a point per game player, he's close but still. His playoff stats are even worse. He's a top player no doubt but not one of the maybe half dozen players I'd consider elite right now.
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Old 12-02-2005, 04:42 PM   #27
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Get real. Roenick is barely a shell of what he once was.
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Old 12-02-2005, 04:43 PM   #28
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BTW, please name the half dozen players you would consider "elite" right now.
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Old 12-02-2005, 08:26 PM   #29
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Great trade for Montreal.
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Old 12-03-2005, 03:02 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samichna
BTW, please name the half dozen players you would consider "elite" right now.
Forsberg, Gagne, Heatley, Alfredsson, Jagr (now that he's rejuvenated) and then any possibly of Spezza/Iginla/Redden/Chara/Naslund

I might not consider them all to be necessarily elite (though I could easily make good arguments that they all are) but merely players I'd rank and take before Thornton at this moment. Elite is reserved mostly for Forsberg, Heatley, Jagr and maybe Alfredsson and probably the two defensemen I mentioned because they are easily two of the best defensive players in the league (NHL is not all about scoring goals, hence this trade in the first place)

Thorntorn is a very very good player no doubt but I take any of those guys before Thornton. (Mostly because Thornton has the potential to be so much more than he already is, he could easily be a esily a point, point and a half player per game) guys I'd rank around or just under Thornton are guys like Vinny Lecavalier, followed by guys like Datsyuk, Richards, St Louis, Patrick Marleau, etc... and aging players like Modano, and Sakic who granted are not what they used to be (and thus not necessarily guys I'd take over Thornton.)

Guys who I think will pass Thorntorn in the next few years are guys like obviously Crosby and Ovechkin, but Staal as well if he can keep playing at the level he's shown to be capable of, Nash and possibly (though not definitely) guys like Frolov, Zetterberg.
Last edited by Lara Emily; 12-03-2005 at 03:54 AM.
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Old 12-03-2005, 03:06 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samichna
Get real. Roenick is barely a shell of what he once was.
I didn't say that he was at the level of Thornton merely pointing out that namebrand players (and was still one at the time of the trade) often go for nothing. This was at least a step up from that, a lot of trades in the new CBA will be salary dumps, this was in part a salary dump trade, I'm not saying it was an even steven trade, those happen once in a blue moon, I'm just saying that the return is fairly decent.

I'll give you that Roenick is seemingly near the end of his career, I had not realised he was so low in scoring this year, my mistake on that.

I think I'll just summarize my argument:


A)Is it a fair exchange in terms of talent for talent? no not really, but then how many trades are.

B)Should they have shooped him around and could they have gotten something better? Most likely yes but part of the reason for this trade was salary dump thus a completely fair trade may have either a)negated any savings or b)or more than likely cost them more money.

Does either statement A or B make this an absolutely horrible trade, one that will go down as one of the OMG worst trades ever, no, hardly not, there have been far worse trades in the past and will be far worse trades in the future (especially due to the new CBA)
Last edited by Lara Emily; 12-03-2005 at 03:26 AM.
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Old 12-04-2005, 05:20 PM   #32
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It doesn't matter if there have been worse trades in the past, nor does it matter if there will be worse trades in the future.

I am talking about THIS trade. I understand that the trade has benefitted both sides. The circumstances under which the trade was made, however, were pathetic, and I'm certain that if Boston management had been less concerned with riding Joe Thornton out of town, not only would there be less backlash right now, but the team would have been better compensated for the guy who you have to remember was the #1 draft pick, team captain, and cornerstone of the Bruins franchise.
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Old 12-05-2005, 02:38 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samichna
It doesn't matter if there have been worse trades in the past, nor does it matter if there will be worse trades in the future.

I am talking about THIS trade. I understand that the trade has benefitted both sides. The circumstances under which the trade was made, however, were pathetic, and I'm certain that if Boston management had been less concerned with riding Joe Thornton out of town, not only would there be less backlash right now, but the team would have been better compensated for the guy who you have to remember was the #1 draft pick, team captain, and cornerstone of the Bruins franchise.
That I'll give you, the way the trade was handled is pure shit, but then again Boston management has always been known to be morons. My argument was less with you and more with those calling this the worst trade ever.
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Old 12-05-2005, 02:58 AM   #34
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wooo
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Old 12-05-2005, 01:13 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily
That I'll give you, the way the trade was handled is pure shit, but then again Boston management has always been known to be morons. My argument was less with you and more with those calling this the worst trade ever.
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Old 12-06-2005, 10:44 PM   #36
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I wouldnt really call Gagne elite. He;s a guy who needs a really good player to make him play better.
Kovalev has elite talent but doesnt carry a team like a Saku does.

I would say Kovalchuk is elite though.
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Old 12-08-2005, 03:53 AM   #37
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Gagne is on my fantasy team woot

He has like more goals already than what he had last year or something, and leads the NHL in goals
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