DISCUSSION - Should Eddie Guerrero win the title from Brock Lesnar at the next PPV?

[Heyman]

DISCUSSION - Should Eddie Guerrero win the title from Brock Lesnar at the next PPV?

In all likelihood, Lesnar will probably retain his title against Guerrero due to Angle making an 'unexpected' heel turn (and costing Guerrero his match). This then leads to a Guerrero/Angle match at Mania' (while Lesnar goes on to defend his title against Goldberg).


HOWEVER..............here is what I wouldn't mind seeing.

-Guerrero and Lesnar begin their feud. Lesnar appears to be all 'super serious' and shit, while Guerrero makes fun of him, etc.

-At the next PPV, Lesnar has the upper hand on Guerrero, but Guerrero 'lies, cheats, and steals' (much to the delight of the fans, and much to the chagrin of a super serious Brock Lesnar). Finally, out of nowhere, Goldberg appears and spears Lesnar! Guerrero then goes on the top rope, and hits the Frog Splash on Lesnar............1..........2...........3. New WWE Champ: Eddie Guerrero.

-The month leading up to Wrestlemania, Lesnar and Goldberg are now FULLY occupied with one another.

-Meanwhile, Angle somehow earns his #1 contendership spot, and is slated to face Guerrero at Mania' (both as faces).

At Wrestlemania, Eddie Guerrero cleanly defeats Angle to retain his WWE title. After the match, the two men shake hands.


Some advantages for this happening

-The Guerrero/Angle match is more 'meaningful'..........it's not 'just another match'.

-As The CyNick once mentioned, having Guerrero in a high profile match could really help tap in to the Latino Market (for extra PPV buyrates). We saw what happened when De La Hoya fought at NYC.

-Guerrero breaks through 'the glass ceiling'. Eddie Guerrero is arguably the biggest face in the company right now. Why not give him the ball now? My only concern is that Eddie winning the title right now might be a 'bit too rushed' (i.e. premature ejaculation), but I guess we'll see.

[The CyNick]

The PPV is in California, so you might think I would say "put the title on Eddie", but I'm not going to do that.

Ive actualy heard that they are considering doing basically what you said, so they can have Eddie vs Kurt for the WWE title. However, I think if the WWE goes that route they are crazy.

The way I think it needs to go down is as follows:

In the coming weeks Angle pretends like he's happy that Eddie has a shot at the WWE title, and he wants Eddie to win. He could maybe even go so far as to say 'if you win, I want the first shot, so we can have a great match'. However, during the match Angle turns on Eddie and helps Brock get the win. Angle's motice is A) jealousy, but also B) that he doesn't want a guy who lies, cheats, etc to carry the WWE Title. The fans will be upset, but after the match you have Goldberg run in from the crowd and F-5 Lesnar, and scream "YOU'RE NEXT".

This leads to Eddie vs Angle and Brock vs Goldberg for the WWE Title.

The reason I think this is a better plan is because if Angle faces Eddie for the WWE Title it will be at best # 5 on the depth chart in terms of promotion for Mania (behind, in no particular order, Kane-Taker, Benoit-HHH, Foley's match, and Goldberg-Lesnar), and it could even fall further if they have Austin work a match. What that will do is put the SD Title in a position where it looks like a mid card title, because of the lack of promotion for the match.

On the flipside, if they keep the title on Brock, you will have the SD Title match in a very high profile position. In terms of advertising, the only match I can see getting more publicity is Taker-Kane, and perhaps a Hogan or Austin match if it happens.

This way Brock retains the title, and sends Goldberg out of the WWE. The SD Title match will have been well promoted and BRock will seem like an unstoppable champion.

Then, at the next SD PPV in May I would have Eddie win the title. He would have been kept strong by beating Kurt at Mania, and he'll be seeking revenge on Brock because he was screwed the last time they fought for the title. The other benefit is if Eddie were to win in May he would do it on his own (he could still cheat, but at least it wouldn't be winning the title at the hands of Goldberg), this will make him seem like a stronger, more credible champion.

The other problem with Eddie winning so soon, is that he'd just been in a fued with Chavo. now, while I dont think that hurt him as much as I thought it would, it did take him out of the main event scene. he could use a couple of months of solid build where the fans are bitting at the bit to see him win the title.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by The CyNick On the flipside, if they keep the title on Brock, you will have the SD Title match in a very high profile position. In terms of advertising, the only match I can see getting more publicity is Taker-Kane, and perhaps a Hogan or Austin match if it happens.

VERY true. Which is one reason why I was originally VERY concerned about Benoit/Triple H being the last match on the card.

Also - I'll have to disagree. If Lesnar faces Goldberg, I think it will have a LOT more fan interest than Kane/Taker. Truth be told, I think the hype would rival Austin/Hogan (especially if Brock/Goldberg was for the WWE title).

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Heyman VERY true. Which is one reason why I was originally VERY concerned about Benoit/Triple H being the last match on the card. Also - I'll have to disagree. If Lesnar faces Goldberg, I think it will have a LOT more fan interest than Kane/Taker. Truth be told, I think the hype would rival Austin/Hogan (especially if Brock/Goldberg was for the WWE title).

I worded my statement a little wrong, what I mean was that only Kane-Taker could possibly get as much publicity, not saying it will, just that it could.

I dont think the Goldberg-Lesnar match is as big as Austin/Hogan if that were to happen. Goldberg isn't a draw on PPV, and neither is Brock quite frankly. Austin and Hogan are two of the three biggest names in wrestling history. Austin-Hogan would have to be the focal point of the advertising because their names are so recognizable.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by The CyNick I worded my statement a little wrong, what I mean was that only Kane-Taker could possibly get as much publicity, not saying it will, just that it could. I dont think the Goldberg-Lesnar match is as big as Austin/Hogan if that were to happen. Goldberg isn't a draw on PPV, and neither is Brock quite frankly. Austin and Hogan are two of the three biggest names in wrestling history. Austin-Hogan would have to be the focal point of the advertising because their names are so recognizable.

Assuming BOTH Austin/Hogan and Lesnar/Goldberg (title match) happened (and considering that WM is a 5 hour show AND that Benoit/HHH will be the last match on the card), would you agree that there is a VERY strong possibility that the fans will be half-dead for the so-called main-event match?

Unless the WWE REALLY hype the shit out of Benoit "possibly winning the big one for the first time", I think they are better off having the Lesnar/Goldberg match as the main-event.


If the 'picture that you have painted' in regards to Benoit over the last week or so occurs

(i.e.

-Benoit defeating Triple H in the main-event, AFTER matches such as Lesnar/Goldberg, Austin/Hogan, RockNSock/Evolution, Taker/Kane take place

-Benoit potentially feuding with Kane, Batista, or Orton, then feuding with HBK and HHH, and then jobbing the title back to HHH),

I think Benoit's title reign could look very 'lukewarm' to say the very least.

Also - I doubt Triple H will do the CLEAN job to Benoit twice.


Anyways - I hope my doubts are wrong. I really do hope that Benoit has a respectable title reign.

[Dave Youell]

If it were me i'd say give the belt to Eddie, have a face Feud with Angle (as both guys are really over right now, it doesn't make sense to turn either heel) then Goldberg Vs Lesner no title at mania so Goldberg can get his last win and then leave as he isn't gonna re sign

[Apocolyptik1]

Originally Posted by Dave Youell If it were me i'd say give the belt to Eddie, have a face Feud with Angle (as both guys are really over right now, it doesn't make sense to turn either heel) then Goldberg Vs Lesner no title at mania so Goldberg can get his last win and then leave as he isn't gonna re sign

This makes a great deal of sense to me. If Goldberg does infact leave after wrestlemania, for good, it is a very small chance that he will leave with a loss. He also cant leave with the title, so Eddie has to win it off of Brock before wrestlemania to do so.

Or somehow they will turn it around with like a gm or even Vince saying "you lose this match, you never work here again" or whatnot. If they did that, then it would increase his chances of loosing at WM. Either way, I believe if it is Goldberg's last match, obviously they will give him the win. I dont think Vince would bury Goldberg right before he was to leave, because it isnt like he is leaving on bad terms, he is just not re-signing. Or course it is a long way to WM and he could resign if he wanted too. Weirder things have happened then a guy saying he wasnt going to resign after a ppw, and then actually resigning.

Goldberg is WCW's last big draw that is still in the WWE. If Goldberg did resign and then lose that wouldnt be bad, but if he lost his last match in the WWE that would just show how much of an asshole Vince really is, and how he still has a resentment for the old WCW wrestlers.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Apocolyptik1 This makes a great deal of sense to me. If Goldberg does infact leave after wrestlemania, for good, it is a very small chance that he will leave with a loss. He also cant leave with the title, so Eddie has to win it off of Brock before wrestlemania to do so. Or somehow they will turn it around with like a gm or even Vince saying "you lose this match, you never work here again" or whatnot. If they did that, then it would increase his chances of loosing at WM. Either way, I believe if it is Goldberg's last match, obviously they will give him the win. I dont think Vince would bury Goldberg right before he was to leave, because it isnt like he is leaving on bad terms, he is just not re-signing. Or course it is a long way to WM and he could resign if he wanted too. Weirder things have happened then a guy saying he wasnt going to resign after a ppw, and then actually resigning. Goldberg is WCW's last big draw that is still in the WWE. If Goldberg did resign and then lose that wouldnt be bad, but if he lost his last match in the WWE that would just show how much of an asshole Vince really is, and how he still has a resentment for the old WCW wrestlers.

I dont know if you are joking, but it makes no sense to have Goldberg win his last match. Goldberg is losing at Mania, and you can take that to the bank.

Re Eddie:

Like I said, if Eddie wins the title, it will get burried at Mania. If they wait till after Mania it will seem like a bigger deal cuz Lesnar will be stronger.

Re Benoit:

I think a 5 hour show will be draining for the fans, but its possible to make the fans care about Benoit to the point that they go nuts when/if he wins the title. A lot has to do with booking, but also how they lay out the card. If the match is built up right, and then you put a filler match before the maine event, I think the fans will be with Benoit for his win. Even if they are not there from the start, I think Benoit is the one guy who can make the fans want to see him win simply based on how he works a match.

I also dont think Goldberg-Lesnar should main, simply because Goldberg didn't win the Rumble. The promotion for the Rumble is that you get a title shot AND you are in the main event of WM. If you take that away, now with their being two world titles, the RUmble becomes far less significant. Benoit winning the title is the best story they have going for the show. I dont think ti will be the most hypes match, but it should be good enough to get the fans into it, and into Benoit's win, assuming that happens.

[Rob]

I don't think Lesnar vs. Goldberg needs a title to hype it especially when everyone knows Goldberg is doing the job. Can't seriously see Eddie getting the title right now though. I do seriously think they should do a Dusty finish of sorts at NWO to at least give the people the mental image of Guerrero as world champion before they do it.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Rob I don't think Lesnar vs. Goldberg needs a title to hype it especially when everyone knows Goldberg is doing the job. Can't seriously see Eddie getting the title right now though. I do seriously think they should do a Dusty finish of sorts at NWO to at least give the people the mental image of Guerrero as world champion before they do it.

Lesnar-Goldberg as a fued doesn't need the title to get the fued over, but I think the title needs to be in the Goldberg-Lesnar program in order to get over.

If that makes any sense.

no

[Rob]

Yeah it does. I don't disagree with you at all. Infact, I think more people would see it your way than mine. If that makes any sense!

Definately think it's too early after a Chavo feud for Eddie to get the strap though but I'm set in my ways in that Eddie Guerrero has to give the people a mental image of him winning that title clean even if it's a Dusty finish just to have the people thinking "hey this guy could actually be the champ".

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Rob Yeah it does. I don't disagree with you at all. Infact, I think more people would see it your way than mine. If that makes any sense! Definately think it's too early after a Chavo feud for Eddie to get the strap though but I'm set in my ways in that Eddie Guerrero has to give the people a mental image of him winning that title clean even if it's a Dusty finish just to have the people thinking "hey this guy could actually be the champ".

Yeah thats cool, I was actually thinking they should put the title on him at some point after Mania either May or July (I was thinking they should run a PPV in Texas or maybe even Mexico if that would work where he could take the title).

Maybe if they did a Dusty finish at NWO, he could win, then Angle comes out and gets his title win reversed (say Eddie cheated to win, Angle shows footage and the decisions is changed). That would set up Angle-Eddie and keep the title strong on Brock and in the upper tier of the card for Mania.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by The CyNick Maybe if they did a Dusty finish at NWO, he could win, then Angle comes out and gets his title win reversed (say Eddie cheated to win, Angle shows footage and the decisions is changed). That would set up Angle-Eddie and keep the title strong on Brock and in the upper tier of the card for Mania.

That would actually be pretty funny. Angle trying to explain his actions to the fans next night. "Oh Eddie cheated.........it's true, it's true."

[Rob]

I'm liking that finish actually since it could also lead to a heel turn but Guerrero would have to take a major beat down from Angle after a Lesnar F-5.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Rob I'm liking that finish actually since it could also lead to a heel turn but Guerrero would have to take a major beat down from Angle after a Lesnar F-5.

Might be good spot to bring in Goldberg, to save Eddie from the beatdown from Angle and Brock.

[Heyman]

credit rajahwwf.com Then John Cena interrupts and Heyman makes a Cena-Show-Angle match at No Way Out for the No. 1 contender spot.

So basically, the winner of this match will face the winner of Brock Lesnar/Eddie Guerrero.

Since Lesnar will definitely be facing Goldberg at Wrestlemania (and Goldberg has no chance of being "the #1 contender), will Eddie Guerrero be WWE champion?

Basically - Goldberg would cost Lesnar his title (and get retribution for costing him the Royal Rumble #1 contender spot). Meanwhile, Guerrero wins the title. Angle wins the #1 contender spot. The two men then FACE one another as fan-favorites. Cena and Big Show continue their feud.


Angle vs. Guerrero
Lesnar vs. Goldberg
Cena vs. Big Show.

[John la Rock]

I say no cause I think the WWE should use this match for Kurt Angle's heel turn and to further develop Lesnar's feud with Goldberg

I say that after Brock enhalates Goldberg at Wrestlemania XX, he should lose the WWE title to Kurt Angle the Smackdown after Mania. Angle should then hold the title all the way to Summerslam and finally lose it to Eddie Guerrero

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by John la Rock I say no cause I think the WWE should use this match for Kurt Angle's heel turn and to further develop Lesnar's feud with Goldberg I say that after Brock enhalates Goldberg at Wrestlemania XX, he should lose the WWE title to Kurt Angle the Smackdown after Mania. Angle should then hold the title all the way to Summerslam and finally lose it to Eddie Guerrero

But think about it.

-Goldberg "will not be" the #1 contender for the title. This accolade will belong to either Angle, Show, or Lesnar.

-Why would Angle cost Guerrero his match against Lesnar?

-If Lesnar is champ (angle screws Guerrero) and either Angle/Show/Cena becomes the #1 contender, where does this leave Bill "foreskin" Goldberg? Will a HEEL Paul Heyman really allow Goldberg to have a #1 contender's match with Angle? (to see who faces Lesnar).


Actually - you just gave me an idea.

I could see the following happening.


-Angle defeats Show/Cena to become #1 contender

-Later on that night during the Lesnar/Guerrero match, Angle comes out. Everyone thinks he's going straight after Lesnar, but he unexpectedly attacks Guerrero. Lesnar wins the match. After the match, Goldberg spears Lesnar.


The following Smackdown, Angle explains his actions (how only HE is the #1 hero/fan favorite on Smackdown and how he wants his re-match with Lesnar from last year's Mania). This marks the start of the Guerrero/Angle feud.

At a later time period, Heyman makes a proposition to Bill Goldberg. He realizes that Goldberg can't win the title at Mania on Raw. However - if he comes to Smackdown, he will put him in a #1 contender's match against Kurt Angle. The winner?...........faces Lesnar. Goldberg accepts.

Goldberg fights Angle. Angle carries Goldberg's arse the two men have a decent match, but Eddie interferes in the end. Goldberg picks up the win over Angle. Goldberg is the new#1 contender.

[Savio]

Don't worry eddie will win

[John la Rock]

Well now that we know that there's going to be a # 1 contenders match at No Way Out. I think Eddie might win the Title at the PPV, after goldberg interferes and costs Lesnar the match.

It would be 10 X better if the WWE Title Match at Wrestlemania was Eddie Guerrero defending against the number one contender Kurt Angle