So... What? *RAW spoilers*

[Fryza]

So, I'm watching RAW right? And I (in that one thread about the MitB match) had predicted a Carlito/RVD/Benjamin/Jordan/London/Hardy match for WM as a showstealer.

Well, RVD gets in. 1 for 6.
Then Benjamin. 2 for 6.

So, tell me... The reason why Carlito lost to Flair was? Is the WWE SERIOUSLY going to keep Flair in? Now remember, he did mention "One more title run in him", and that is certainly set up for what the MitB match is all about... But where does this leave Carlito?

[What Would Kevin Do?]

This is seriously beyond comprehension.

[Blitz]

I hope there'll be an angle in the next couple of weeks to put Carlito into the match and get Flair out.

[dablackguy]

But where does this leave Carlito?
Out of the match.. for now

[Lock Jaw]

Yeah Carlito should have been a lock for this match. Especially the way they've been booking him that it was his idea, and that he has been more agressive.

Maybe he'll go totally insane and beat the hell out of Flair, taking him out of the match, and taking his spot.

Or maybe they'll pull a Rey and Vince will come out and say "Carlito, I'm adding you back in the MITB!"

[What Would Kevin Do?]

If they really want the MITB to go to Flair, why not have Flair get taken out by Carlito? Then have Carlito win it. In "The interest of fairness." Have Vince give Flair a contract that says he can fight Carlito at any time for his MITB match, assuming Carlito hasn't used it.

I dunno, it'd be an interesting twist. The champ looking out for Carlito, Carlito looking out for Flair, Flair trying to use his contract on Carlito before Carlito uses his. Plus, it's set up so Flair could beat Carlito without killing MORE of his momentum.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Carlito will probably end up in the match. I dunno, I kinda want to see Kane & Big Show vs. Carlito & Chris Masters at WrestleMania.

[Fryza]

No, because that would just be WWE burying newer talent for already established talent... AND we know that neither Cena or Hunter would do the job to Flair (not long anyway)... But it's better than putting a fifty-seven year-old man in a ladder match...

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Originally Posted by Fryza No, because that would just be WWE burying newer talent for already established talent... AND we know that neither Cena or Hunter would do the job to Flair (not long anyway)... But it's better than putting a fifty-seven year-old man in a ladder match...

Nah, not really. A. Carlito could lose in a way that wouldn't hurt him. Hell, he could be feuding w/ someone, and during a random match, the person he's feuding with smokes him with a chair, knocking him out. Flair rollls in w/ his contract, pins Carlito.

Anyway, I think HHH would definately put over Flair for a farewell title reign.

Not like any of this will happen anyway. It's just my spin on it.

[weather vane]

I thought it was very interesting. It was a shocker to me. WWE is getting a hell of a lot better, besides that Kiss My Ass crap. They need to stop fucking shit up.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Originally Posted by Spilchuk I thought it was very interesting. It was a shocker to me. WWE is getting a hell of a lot better, besides that Kiss My Ass crap. They need to stop fucking shit up.

Interesting/surprising isn't always a good thing though. I may have been surprised, but looking over the Mania card, I'll buy a ladder match w/ Carlito in it before I will one with Flair in it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I hope they scrap the plans for HBK vs. Vince, and have McMahon simply back Carlito in a match against Michaels. It would make Carlito look like a main eventer, and use Michaels to his full potential.

The other spots in the Money in the Bank Ladder Match could go to Charlie Haas, Kenny (Doane) & Rob Conway/Nick Dinsmore/Val Venis. The last choice is a bit random, but it could fit in.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Originally Posted by Alienoid06 I hope they scrap the plans for HBK vs. Vince, and have McMahon simply back Carlito in a match against Michaels. It would make Carlito look like a main eventer, and use Michaels to his full potential. The other spots in the Money in the Bank Ladder Match could go to Charlie Haas, Kenny (Doane) & Rob Conway/Nick Dinsmore/Val Venis. The last choice is a bit random, but it could fit in.

It works for Carlito. As far as the other person in the ladder match, I can't see it ever being any of them. I think it has to be someone who, in theory, at least has a shot at being champion. Shelton,Carlito, RVD, Masters, far fetched, but possible. Conway, Dinsmore, Venis, I don't see ever being legit contenders, even w/ MITB.

[Cuzziebro]

Yeah i dont know about the likes on Conway, Dinsmore, and Venis but you never know they could surprise us and turn out to be awesome main eventers.

[Destor]

Look at it this way. In a ladder match anything goes. Nothing is stopping Carlito from coming out and grabbing the case for his own. Carlito will still be involved.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Destor Look at it this way. In a ladder match anything goes. Nothing is stopping Carlito from coming out and grabbing the case for his own. Carlito will still be involved.

You know, I've always considered something like this for a Ladder Match. Obviously when a title is on the line, a person just can't run down, take the belt and become Champion; but when a contract is hanging from the ring, a guy ran down, took the contract, signed it, I assume it would be all his.

They should do this with a random guy. I would mark out like a little bitch if Paul London ran down after a gruelling 20:00 Ladder Match, did a few flips to knock some guys down, then climbed the ladder, took the contract and while the match is declared a No Contest (so no one technically loses), Paul London gets the title shot whenever he wants.

They wouldn't ever do this with London, though.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Originally Posted by Alienoid06 You know, I've always considered something like this for a Ladder Match. Obviously when a title is on the line, a person just can't run down, take the belt and become Champion; but when a contract is hanging from the ring, a guy ran down, took the contract, signed it, I assume it would be all his. They should do this with a random guy. I would mark out like a little bitch if Paul London ran down after a gruelling 20:00 Ladder Match, did a few flips to knock some guys down, then climbed the ladder, took the contract and while the match is declared a No Contest (so no one technically loses), Paul London gets the title shot whenever he wants. They wouldn't ever do this with London, though.

\

Heh, 24/7 Rule on the MITB contract.

[Pinnacle Charisma]

Im I the only one angry that Shelton is in the MITB match meaning that for the third year in the row the IC title ( the third biggest title in the wwe) will not be defended at WM

[Xero]

Originally Posted by Pinnacle Charisma Im I the only one angry that Shelton is in the MITB match meaning that for the third year in the row the IC title ( the third biggest title in the wwe) will not be defended at WM

I was thinking that. My guess is that he'll probably lose the title before the match, OR, to make it very interesting, they could make the MITB match for both. The contract and the title. I know it won't happen, but it would fix the part about the IC title being on the line. Plus, it would give whoever has the contract the IC title to get pushed a bit further before their title match.

[Destor]

So, I am the only one that could see Van Dam winning MItB and then challenging H for the title later that night? (Yes I know how asinine it is.)

[Xero]

I see Flair winning it, what with his "one more run" promo last night. It's a scary thought, but it makes sense, especially because he's in the fucking match...

[Xero]

Also, is this going to be inter-brand or is it only going to be a triple threat?

[Londoner]

I reckon they're going to have Carlito/Masters take on Kane/Big Show for the tag titles.Only thing I can think of.

Just a few things though;

1) Shelton should be defending the IC title at WM, once again the writers ignore this title.

2)Flair should not be in this match he should go back to managing.He hardly ever defended the IC title.

3)Carlito should be in this match.

This could be one of the worst WM's i've ever seen, just because of the way its being set up.

[Londoner]

Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126 Also, is this going to be inter-brand or is it only going to be a triple threat?

Inter-brand. Expect 3 qualifying matches on Smackdown this week.

[Londoner]

Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126 I was thinking that. My guess is that he'll probably lose the title before the match, OR, to make it very interesting, they could make the MITB match for both. The contract and the title. I know it won't happen, but it would fix the part about the IC title being on the line. Plus, it would give whoever has the contract the IC title to get pushed a bit further before their title match.

That's a good idea, which means it wont happen.

[Mr. JL]

Fuck! They threw RVD in a fucked up clusterfuck match. FUK!!!!!|
}{ | Fucking he deserves a fucking high profile main event calibur one on one match !!!!!


-----
Oh, and Ric Flair beats out Carlito for a spot in the MITB match? WTF

[Pepsi Man]

Jesus Christ. It seems like you advocate the rookies always going over the veterans, just on account of "the veterans are already established". If it worked like that, beating these guys wouldn't be special; it'd be COMPLETELY expected.

[The Icon of Elisim]

I'm betting on Carlito fighting Flair at SNME for his spot

[Fryza]

Originally Posted by Pepsi Man Jesus Christ. It seems like you advocate the rookies always going over the veterans, just on account of "the veterans are already established". If it worked like that, beating these guys wouldn't be special; it'd be COMPLETELY expected.

In this case, it's smart. Since Flair is not going to be there much longer, whereas someone like Carlito WILL be a main eventer sometime. Instead of having him lose a spot in a LADDER match to a fifty-seven year-old man, they should have him win it. Carlito wins the match, gets the MitB contract.

Later down the road, he cashes it and wins. Holds it for a few months, then drops it to Flair in a feud ender. That, I wouldn't mind because you're establishing Carlito without killing his heat, and you're giving Flair his last world title run.

But, Flair in a ladder match, which is designed for younger guys who can still take some heavier spots- it's just out of place. Already we have RVD, Shelton, and Flair. That's just an odd list for a ladder match, considering the last three haven't been announced yet.

[Pepsi Man]

Originally Posted by Fryza In this case, it's smart. Since Flair is not going to be there much longer, whereas someone like Carlito WILL be a main eventer sometime. Instead of having him lose a spot in a LADDER match to a fifty-seven year-old man, they should have him win it. Carlito wins the match, gets the MitB contract. Later down the road, he cashes it and wins. Holds it for a few months, then drops it to Flair in a feud ender. That, I wouldn't mind because you're establishing Carlito without killing his heat, and you're giving Flair his last world title run. But, Flair in a ladder match, which is designed for younger guys who can still take some heavier spots- it's just out of place. Already we have RVD, Shelton, and Flair. That's just an odd list for a ladder match, considering the last three haven't been announced yet.

If Flair came out with the title in the end, it really WOULD be killing most of what they built up, if they gave Carlito the win here. Psychology is as much of the game as anything, and I don't know if I'm alone, but I don't think Flair did too horrible in TLC with Edge on Raw.

[Fryza]

Originally Posted by Pepsi Man If Flair came out with the title in the end, it really WOULD be killing most of what they built up, if they gave Carlito the win here. Psychology is as much of the game as anything, and I don't know if I'm alone, but I don't think Flair did too horrible in TLC with Edge on Raw.

It's one on one though, so it makes it easier to get around. In a TLC match, you don't HAVE to use the ladders.

MitB is a ladder match, which means Flair will have to climb the ladder. We already know he can't land on his back well, so that leaves Shelton and RVD to have to be careful about what spots they do, and it slows down the pace of the match.

I love Flair, but I don't want Flair in a match that is designed as fast-paced action, especially if there will be five young guys who have to carry an older, slower wrestler around.

As for the Carlito/Flair killing off heat, it wouldn't really. We know that Flair CAN beat Carlito one on one. I believe both by pin and submission. And Flair is the "Dirty's Player in the Game", so the fans would expect both men to cheat.

Play up for a month and a half, Carlito getting the better of Flair through mind games, using youth to his advantage, etc. Then, at a PPV, the two go at it. Flair eventually plants in the figure four after twenty - thirty minutes, and Carlito loses the title. Flair holds it for a good amount of time, While Carlito can work more on his in-ring skills and mic skill, preparing him for a REAL run (so the WWE doesn't push him over-the-top too soon).

[Pepsi Man]

Originally Posted by Fryza It's one on one though, so it makes it easier to get around. In a TLC match, you don't HAVE to use the ladders. MitB is a ladder match, which means Flair will have to climb the ladder. We already know he can't land on his back well, so that leaves Shelton and RVD to have to be careful about what spots they do, and it slows down the pace of the match. I love Flair, but I don't want Flair in a match that is designed as fast-paced action, especially if there will be five young guys who have to carry an older, slower wrestler around. As for the Carlito/Flair killing off heat, it wouldn't really. We know that Flair CAN beat Carlito one on one. I believe both by pin and submission. And Flair is the "Dirty's Player in the Game", so the fans would expect both men to cheat. Play up for a month and a half, Carlito getting the better of Flair through mind games, using youth to his advantage, etc. Then, at a PPV, the two go at it. Flair eventually plants in the figure four after twenty - thirty minutes, and Carlito loses the title. Flair holds it for a good amount of time, While Carlito can work more on his in-ring skills and mic skill, preparing him for a REAL run (so the WWE doesn't push him over-the-top too soon).

Whoa, before I even read the rest of that, you do indeed have to climb the ladder in a TLC match. That or it was my imagination that the belt was suspended above the ring for that match.

And actually, I don't have too much else to say, so I guess that's it here.

[Fryza]

Originally Posted by Pepsi Man Whoa, before I even read the rest of that, you do indeed have to climb the ladder in a TLC match. That or it was my imagination that the belt was suspended above the ring for that match. And actually, I don't have too much else to say, so I guess that's it here.

The original TLC (for the tag belts) had the title, but lately I've noticed that it seems to me just to be a hardcore match (and the tables, ladders, and chairs being supplied).

In my defense, I did not see Flair/Edge TLC (believe that was a RAW), so if he DID climb a ladder, that's fine. How many spots were they he fell from the ladder? Sold a move from the top of the ladder? Did a move off the ladder?

I doubt many- if any at all. RVD will do them. Shelton will do them. Carlito can do them. Flair? Flair can climb the ladder and knock people off it, but he can't go off the ladder. Fans aren't expecting a wrestling match here, they're expecting a lot of fast moves, flashy moves, and high-flying moves. Flair can't deliver there, so it seems out of place from him to be there.

[Pepsi Man]

Originally Posted by Fryza The original TLC (for the tag belts) had the title, but lately I've noticed that it seems to me just to be a hardcore match (and the tables, ladders, and chairs being supplied). In my defense, I did not see Flair/Edge TLC (believe that was a RAW), so if he DID climb a ladder, that's fine. How many spots were they he fell from the ladder? Sold a move from the top of the ladder? Did a move off the ladder? I doubt many- if any at all. RVD will do them. Shelton will do them. Carlito can do them. Flair? Flair can climb the ladder and knock people off it, but he can't go off the ladder. Fans aren't expecting a wrestling match here, they're expecting a lot of fast moves, flashy moves, and high-flying moves. Flair can't deliver there, so it seems out of place from him to be there.

I dunno, that superplex from near the top seemed pretty good to me, although I can't seem to remember who superplexed who. I think Flair was the aggressor, but STILL.

Also, I'm pretty sure there hasn't been a TLC match in which the title wasn't suspended above the ring, apart from in video games.

[Fryza]

Originally Posted by Pepsi Man I dunno, that superplex from near the top seemed pretty good to me, although I can't seem to remember who superplexed who. I think Flair was the aggressor, but STILL. Also, I'm pretty sure there hasn't been a TLC match in which the title wasn't suspended above the ring, apart from in video games.

Then the TLC match on RAW was for Edge's world title. Okay, now I know where the pieces are fitting.

Nonetheless, this is not the kind of match Flair should be partaking in. A one-on-one ladder match is MUCH different than a six-man ladder match. Flair will have to take a LOT of bumps from the ladder, to the ladder, with the ladder, on the ladder... At his age, that's pretty damn fatal. Have you watched him the last few weeks? Flair is visibly getting older, and it'll be hard to sell for a lot these moves. No good. I'd like to see the timeline work as such:

-Next few RAWs leading up to SNME, Flair taunts Carlito, getting into his head, maybe costing him matches.
-At SNME, Carlito wins a match that puts him in the MitB match over Flair.
-Carlito wins the MitB, Hunter wins the title.
-Carlito taunts around the MitB win over RAW, gets in some scuffs with Hunter, but nothing big. Hunter/Cena program continues.
-Two months after WM, Cena gets his rematch against Hunter. Carlito comes to the ring and hits Hunter with the briefcase, giving Cena the win. After the match, he hits Cena with the case, cashing in the contract, wins the title.
-The next night, he defends against Cena, but Hunter costs the match. Hunter doesn't get a rematch though, since the title changed hands prior.
-Carlito begins getting cocky, eventually gets challenged to a match by Flair, Carlito cheats to win.
-Flair says he wants a shot against Carlito, but is stopped by Hunter. Hunter says he should get a shot first since he never g ot a rematch. A number one contendor's match is made, which Cena costs Hunter the match (returning the favor, still setting up the two to feud).
-Over the next few weeks, Carlito continually gets the better of Flair, using weapons or requesting help from Masters. Finally, at say SummerSlam (if my timeline would be right), we have Flair/Carlito for the title, which is a singles match that goes for about twenty minutes. Flair wins via Figure Four.

From there, Flair would hold the title for awhile (defeating Carlito in his rematch, Masters, etc etc) until he later drops it to Hunter, and they could work it from there.

That's just how I think it should be though. It doesn't take any real momentum from Carlito, but gives Flair is his last run.

[CharismaInjection]

Uh, I was just wondering guys, are we sure this match is gonna have six people, as WWE.com said Flair won the FINAL qualifying match, and the match is down as final. I hope it's six, RVD and Benjamin would be great as a singles ladder match though.

[Pepsi Man]

Originally Posted by Fryza Then the TLC match on RAW was for Edge's world title. Okay, now I know where the pieces are fitting. Nonetheless, this is not the kind of match Flair should be partaking in. A one-on-one ladder match is MUCH different than a six-man ladder match. Flair will have to take a LOT of bumps from the ladder, to the ladder, with the ladder, on the ladder... At his age, that's pretty damn fatal. Have you watched him the last few weeks? Flair is visibly getting older, and it'll be hard to sell for a lot these moves. No good. I'd like to see the timeline work as such: -Next few RAWs leading up to SNME, Flair taunts Carlito, getting into his head, maybe costing him matches. -At SNME, Carlito wins a match that puts him in the MitB match over Flair. -Carlito wins the MitB, Hunter wins the title. -Carlito taunts around the MitB win over RAW, gets in some scuffs with Hunter, but nothing big. Hunter/Cena program continues. -Two months after WM, Cena gets his rematch against Hunter. Carlito comes to the ring and hits Hunter with the briefcase, giving Cena the win. After the match, he hits Cena with the case, cashing in the contract, wins the title. -The next night, he defends against Cena, but Hunter costs the match. Hunter doesn't get a rematch though, since the title changed hands prior. -Carlito begins getting cocky, eventually gets challenged to a match by Flair, Carlito cheats to win. -Flair says he wants a shot against Carlito, but is stopped by Hunter. Hunter says he should get a shot first since he never g ot a rematch. A number one contendor's match is made, which Cena costs Hunter the match (returning the favor, still setting up the two to feud). -Over the next few weeks, Carlito continually gets the better of Flair, using weapons or requesting help from Masters. Finally, at say SummerSlam (if my timeline would be right), we have Flair/Carlito for the title, which is a singles match that goes for about twenty minutes. Flair wins via Figure Four. From there, Flair would hold the title for awhile (defeating Carlito in his rematch, Masters, etc etc) until he later drops it to Hunter, and they could work it from there. That's just how I think it should be though. It doesn't take any real momentum from Carlito, but gives Flair is his last run.

If anything, it's easier to cover one guy in a six man ladder match. Flair would have to take LESS of a beating and all.

[Fryza]

Originally Posted by Pepsi Man If anything, it's easier to cover one guy in a six man ladder match. Flair would have to take LESS of a beating and all.

Yes, in six-way, three group of two. However, that means there will always be at least one free man to get you off the ladder. Not many ways for Flair to continually come down.

And CI- if it's a three-way dance, I will officially mark out less for MitB. Two triple threats at WrestleManie? I dunno, sounds a little bland to me.

[Pepsi Man]

Originally Posted by Fryza Yes, in six-way, three group of two. However, that means there will always be at least one free man to get you off the ladder. Not many ways for Flair to continually come down. And CI- if it's a three-way dance, I will officially mark out less for MitB. Two triple threats at WrestleManie? I dunno, sounds a little bland to me.

Flair doesn't have to continuously be the one climbing the ladder, though. He can work a few guys over more and maybe climb it a time or two, instead of getting thrown off of it every other second.

[Fryza]

Originally Posted by Pepsi Man Flair doesn't have to continuously be the one climbing the ladder, though. He can work a few guys over more and maybe climb it a time or two, instead of getting thrown off of it every other second.

I'm not directly saying Flair COULDN'T work the match, but that fans are going to expect a lot of high spots that Flair can't deliver, which means that Van Dam and Shelton will have to slow down the pace of match to deal with Flair, which would be avoided switching Flair with Carlito.