I don't think this has been mentioned

**Stickman** · 03-14-2006, 12:59 PM

We all have our ideas of how to fix the WWE product. This is wrong that is wrong, this guy should be champ, blah blah blah.

Has anybody ever considered the reason it sucks is because the matches are for the most part shit? They have great wrestlers but they're all limited. YOu never see a piledriver anymore. Every match is the same, throw a few punches, chops, throw off the rope, ect. The matches do not keep our interest, not the promos. We always talk about how shitty or great a promo was, but rarely do we say "that was a great match." When we do say that, it's usually just a good finish. Sure on TV everything has to be corigraphed (I can spell) to fit in with the time limit of 3 minutes. PPV's I would imagine the matches are a little better.

If the in ring product was decent, maybe the storylines would pick up.

Oh by the way, don't tell me if I want to watch great matches, tune into TNA. I did flip to TNA last night and the matches there were stupid. I saw a guy get nailed with a brainbuster only to completely no sell it and win his match.

**Pepsi Man** · 03-14-2006, 01:02 PM

Honestly, as much as I wish they'd bring back the Piledriver and other moves and improve on the in-ring product, I don't think it has any bearing on storylines, and I think most of us could still be entertained with WWE's limited moveset.

Props for thinking outside the box, though.

**Kane Knight** · 03-14-2006, 02:41 PM

Yeah, dozens of people have commented on this. You're right, it's part of the reason WWE sucks.

It's not the only reason. The WWF/E has always been story driven wrestling, as opposed to wrestling being the primary drive. A lot of the people who were entertaining in the Attitude Era were not relying on a big or "explosive" moveset, but rather on charisma. The New Age Outlaws were hugely popular and entertaining, and look at them. Neither one is massively impressive. The Rock was huge without a huge arsenal, Austin could get rave reviews from fans for little more than punch, punch, setup, stunner, middle finger, beer... Venis had maybe two moves in his arsenal that were less than run-of-the-mill, and he was entertaining. Much of the tag team glory involved big spots and such (Least once the Hardy Boyz showed up), but they weren't the mainstay.

WWF has always been more a soap opera than any other wrestling show. Whether its wrestlers are brilliant or just passable, WWE needs to book the plots better. Sure, they could let everyone cut loose like TNA does, and you'd have great spots. You'd still have little substance.

The major problem is they've tried to substitute shock and T&A and such for wrestling AND story.

**Stickman** · 03-14-2006, 02:49 PM

I'm not saying the limited moveset is the problem but it doesn't help. For example, they used to use Kane or the Big Show as punishment. If somebody needed a lesson they were fed to one of the two. But seeing how there's no power moves other than weakass choakslams it doesn't seem like a big deal. I think more "painful" moves should be allowed because it looks weak if all there is are chops and kicks and then the match is over.
It goes with finishing moves too. Edge's spear sucks ass, the FU is terrible, the Angle Slam is pathetic, you get where I'm going here.

The stunner was pretty cool, the Rockbottom was believable, the pedigree is gold.
I think they need to add something to the matches that makes us care about the promo wrestler A and wrestler B cut on each other. If they are going to rely on weak finishers, put something in the match that looks like it'd hurt.

**Pepsi Man** · 03-14-2006, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stickman

I'm not saying the limited moveset is the problem but it doesn't help. For example, they used to use Kane or the Big Show as punishment. If somebody needed a lesson they were fed to one of the two. But seeing how there's no power moves other than weakass choakslams it doesn't seem like a big deal. I think more "painful" moves should be allowed because it looks weak if all there is are chops and kicks and then the match is over.
It goes with finishing moves too. Edge's spear sucks ass, the FU is terrible, the Angle Slam is pathetic, you get where I'm going here.

The stunner was pretty cool, the Rockbottom was believable, the pedigree is gold.
I think they need to add something to the matches that makes us care about the promo wrestler A and wrestler B cut on each other. If they are going to rely on weak finishers, put something in the match that looks like it'd hurt.

Erm, what did Big Show ever do that he can't do anymore? Did I miss something?

**Kane Knight** · 03-15-2006, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepsi Man

Erm, what did Big Show ever do that he can't do anymore? Did I miss something?

He couold...Ummm...

**Londoner** · 03-15-2006, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stickman

I'm not saying the limited moveset is the problem but it doesn't help. For example, they used to use Kane or the Big Show as punishment. If somebody needed a lesson they were fed to one of the two. But seeing how there's no power moves other than weakass choakslams it doesn't seem like a big deal. I think more "painful" moves should be allowed because it looks weak if all there is are chops and kicks and then the match is over.
It goes with finishing moves too. Edge's spear sucks ass, the FU is terrible, the Angle Slam is pathetic, you get where I'm going here.

The stunner was pretty cool, the Rockbottom was believable, the pedigree is gold.
I think they need to add something to the matches that makes us care about the promo wrestler A and wrestler B cut on each other. If they are going to rely on weak finishers, put something in the match that looks like it'd hurt.

I agreed with your first post but not this one.Well actually, I was with you up until you compared the angle slam to edge's spear/cenas FU.

**Kane Knight** · 03-14-2006, 04:36 PM

:foc: Don't diss the Angle Slam!

**94 SVT Cobra** · 03-14-2006, 04:45 PM

Stupidty can be transformed into postive by ignoring this double post and continuing onward. I am an idiot, thank you.

**94 SVT Cobra** · 03-14-2006, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kane Knight

:foc: Don't diss the Angle Slam!

Seriously the first time i saw that move, i was amazed for soem reason

**Stickman** · 03-15-2006, 12:35 PM

Big Show didn't do anything with more impact, thus I find it weak to send somebody to him for "punishment."

And give me a break, the Angle slam is terrible

**Kane Knight** · 03-15-2006, 02:53 PM

So how have things changed? Big Show's got the same typical big man big moves more or less everyone else had, and it hasn't really changed, so where does that fit into your argument?

Also, give me a break, the Stunner was terrible.

03-14-2006, 12:59 PM	#1
Stickman Stickman Posts: 15,119	I don't think this has been mentioned We all have our ideas of how to fix the WWE product. This is wrong that is wrong, this guy should be champ, blah blah blah. Has anybody ever considered the reason it sucks is because the matches are for the most part shit? They have great wrestlers but they're all limited. YOu never see a piledriver anymore. Every match is the same, throw a few punches, chops, throw off the rope, ect. The matches do not keep our interest, not the promos. We always talk about how shitty or great a promo was, but rarely do we say "that was a great match." When we do say that, it's usually just a good finish. Sure on TV everything has to be corigraphed (I can spell) to fit in with the time limit of 3 minutes. PPV's I would imagine the matches are a little better. If the in ring product was decent, maybe the storylines would pick up. Oh by the way, don't tell me if I want to watch great matches, tune into TNA. I did flip to TNA last night and the matches there were stupid. I saw a guy get nailed with a brainbuster only to completely no sell it and win his match.

03-14-2006, 01:02 PM	#2
Pepsi Man Posts: 15,983	Honestly, as much as I wish they'd bring back the Piledriver and other moves and improve on the in-ring product, I don't think it has any bearing on storylines, and I think most of us could still be entertained with WWE's limited moveset. Props for thinking outside the box, though.

03-14-2006, 02:41 PM	#3
Kane Knight Ron Paul 4 EVA Posts: 152,467	Yeah, dozens of people have commented on this. You're right, it's part of the reason WWE sucks. It's not the only reason. The WWF/E has always been story driven wrestling, as opposed to wrestling being the primary drive. A lot of the people who were entertaining in the Attitude Era were not relying on a big or "explosive" moveset, but rather on charisma. The New Age Outlaws were hugely popular and entertaining, and look at them. Neither one is massively impressive. The Rock was huge without a huge arsenal, Austin could get rave reviews from fans for little more than punch, punch, setup, stunner, middle finger, beer... Venis had maybe two moves in his arsenal that were less than run-of-the-mill, and he was entertaining. Much of the tag team glory involved big spots and such (Least once the Hardy Boyz showed up), but they weren't the mainstay. WWF has always been more a soap opera than any other wrestling show. Whether its wrestlers are brilliant or just passable, WWE needs to book the plots better. Sure, they could let everyone cut loose like TNA does, and you'd have great spots. You'd still have little substance. The major problem is they've tried to substitute shock and T&A and such for wrestling AND story.

03-14-2006, 02:49 PM	#4
Stickman Stickman Posts: 15,119	I'm not saying the limited moveset is the problem but it doesn't help. For example, they used to use Kane or the Big Show as punishment. If somebody needed a lesson they were fed to one of the two. But seeing how there's no power moves other than weakass choakslams it doesn't seem like a big deal. I think more "painful" moves should be allowed because it looks weak if all there is are chops and kicks and then the match is over. It goes with finishing moves too. Edge's spear sucks ass, the FU is terrible, the Angle Slam is pathetic, you get where I'm going here. The stunner was pretty cool, the Rockbottom was believable, the pedigree is gold. I think they need to add something to the matches that makes us care about the promo wrestler A and wrestler B cut on each other. If they are going to rely on weak finishers, put something in the match that looks like it'd hurt.

03-14-2006, 04:36 PM	#8
Kane Knight Ron Paul 4 EVA Posts: 152,467	:foc: Don't diss the Angle Slam!

03-14-2006, 04:45 PM	#9
94 SVT Cobra Bent his wookie Posts: 1,420	Stupidty can be transformed into postive by ignoring this double post and continuing onward. I am an idiot, thank you.

03-15-2006, 12:35 PM	#11
Stickman Stickman Posts: 15,119	Big Show didn't do anything with more impact, thus I find it weak to send somebody to him for "punishment." And give me a break, the Angle slam is terrible

03-15-2006, 02:53 PM	#12
Kane Knight Ron Paul 4 EVA Posts: 152,467	So how have things changed? Big Show's got the same typical big man big moves more or less everyone else had, and it hasn't really changed, so where does that fit into your argument? Also, give me a break, the Stunner was terrible.