TPWW Forums  

Go Back   TPWW Forums > w r e s t l i n g > wrestling forum
Reload this Page Submission moves
Register Members List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-08-2006, 09:45 AM   #1
Ben Rodrigues
 
Ben Rodrigues's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,796
Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)
Submission moves
Inspired by that other thread about retiring certain holds.

What happend to the days when submission moves we're effective? In the 90's when a submission move was applied with "excellent ring positioning" there would be no way out. Now it seems no matter what the hold, guys simply push up and find their way to the ropes (unless it's Cena's STF).

Another thing, when did the WWE feel the need to the rid us of the "get to the ropes, break" rule. I know it's still enforced, but they've changed the concept behind it. Kurt Angle's Ankle Lock is a great example. He gets them in the hold, they get to the ropes and then he's able to pull them back to the center of the ring without breaking the hold.

Thoughts on the matter?
Ben Rodrigues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2006, 09:49 AM   #2
Xero
He's Here
 
Xero's Avatar
 
Posts: 60,735
Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
They're stronger now than ever.

As for the break rule, they've added a five count. I don't think the five count was in effect 6+ years ago, they had to break the hold right away or they were DQ'd.
Xero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2006, 09:54 AM   #3
Ben Rodrigues
 
Ben Rodrigues's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,796
Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)
You sure about that? I'm pretty sure they've always had the five count rule.
Ben Rodrigues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2006, 09:58 AM   #4
Xero
He's Here
 
Xero's Avatar
 
Posts: 60,735
Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
They've had five count rules for chokes on the ropes and hand chokes, but I'm fairly sure I remember moves being broken up right away if they reached the ropes.
Xero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2006, 10:01 AM   #5
Ben Rodrigues
 
Ben Rodrigues's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,796
Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)
Hmmm... I'll probably go through my wrestling collection tomorrow to find that out.
Ben Rodrigues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2006, 10:02 AM   #6
Kane Knight
Ron Paul 4 EVA
 
Kane Knight's Avatar
 
Posts: 152,467
Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126
They're stronger now than ever.

As for the break rule, they've added a five count. I don't think the five count was in effect 6+ years ago, they had to break the hold right away or they were DQ'd.
There was a 5 count 6+ years ago, and it wasn't reset by pulling someone off the ropes. In fact, it wasn't until recently that they could do that. Previously, if you had gotten someone off the ropes, they'd still tell you to break it.
Kane Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2006, 10:10 AM   #7
korinkahn
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
In general superstars do not use the ropes to break moves or the coners of the ring anymore and it takes away from the drama. I recall Ric Flair v Bret Hart- Flair would coner Bret, push Hart in the chest and Bret would slap the taste out of Flair's mouth it really built tension.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2006, 10:13 AM   #8
Ben Rodrigues
 
Ben Rodrigues's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,796
Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by korinkahn
In general superstars do not use the ropes to break moves or the coners of the ring anymore and it takes away from the drama. I recall Ric Flair v Bret Hart- Flair would coner Bret, push Hart in the chest and Bret would slap the taste out of Flair's mouth it really built tension.
Watch Hogan/Michaels at Summerslam 2005.
Ben Rodrigues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2006, 10:17 AM   #9
korinkahn
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Rodrigues
Watch Hogan/Michaels at Summerslam 2005.

I proves my point, two old school wrestlers
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2006, 10:23 AM   #10
Xero
He's Here
 
Xero's Avatar
 
Posts: 60,735
Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
There was a 5 count 6+ years ago, and it wasn't reset by pulling someone off the ropes. In fact, it wasn't until recently that they could do that. Previously, if you had gotten someone off the ropes, they'd still tell you to break it.
I may be getting it confused with that, but I can still see a ref in my head forcing them to break a hold before he even started to count.
Xero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2006, 10:24 AM   #11
Ben Rodrigues
 
Ben Rodrigues's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,796
Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)Ben Rodrigues is good (20,000+)
I'm pretty sure it would've been a "Break the hold! 1 - 2- 3..." and so forth.
Ben Rodrigues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2006, 10:52 AM   #12
El Fangel
ELF ANGEL
 
El Fangel's Avatar
 
Posts: 39,476
El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
I can't remember who or when, But i seem to remember a match, where wrestler A was in a submission, got to the ropes and the hold was broken by the order of the ref, then later, when the situation was reversed, the wrestler held onto the ropes, the ref didn't count, Wrestler B got pulled away from the ropes, and the ref allowed it, Then when wrestler B got to the ropes again the ref finally broke it up.

Again Im unsure of the event, match or wrestlers, but reading this thread made me remember for some reason.
El Fangel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2006, 11:14 AM   #13
Kane Knight
Ron Paul 4 EVA
 
Kane Knight's Avatar
 
Posts: 152,467
Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126
I may be getting it confused with that, but I can still see a ref in my head forcing them to break a hold before he even started to count.
JR used to describe the count as a discretionary thing, ref's perogative.
Kane Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2006, 12:25 PM   #14
El Fangel
ELF ANGEL
 
El Fangel's Avatar
 
Posts: 39,476
El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
oh, well maybe that explains what I posted before, because when I watched the match I was like WTF?
El Fangel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2006, 01:01 PM   #15
Kane Knight
Ron Paul 4 EVA
 
Kane Knight's Avatar
 
Posts: 152,467
Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
You'll also notice that a 5 count sometimes ends in the ref pulling the heel off the face when the face has reached the ropes and the 5 count is up. In other words, he didn't DQ him.

While you could argue that it's "just" an inconsistency in wrestling, JR has also referred to this as "Discretionary." Now it just gets blatantly ignored, but it's been explained away in the past (And about as often as you hear the phrase Jezabelle).
Kane Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2006, 04:04 PM   #16
Corkscrewed
 
Corkscrewed's Avatar
 
Posts: 18,357
Corkscrewed has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Corkscrewed has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Corkscrewed has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Corkscrewed has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Corkscrewed has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Corkscrewed has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Corkscrewed has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Corkscrewed has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Corkscrewed has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Corkscrewed has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Corkscrewed has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)
What a jezabelle of a ref.
Corkscrewed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:08 PM.

Forums Home - TPWW - Archive - Top

Powered by vBulletin®