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Old 06-09-2006, 11:37 AM   #1
Vermaat
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WWE Vs ECW : This crap smells like a REMAKE of "invasion" (spoilers)
I was all excited about hardcore wrestling coming back to the wwe, we havent had good hardcore wrestling since the hardcore title was uinified with another and I really missed the days of great hardcore matches. I was real excited when I heard that ECW was coming back and it sounded like a great idea.

When kurt angle joined thats the first time I thought UH OH I've seen this before. Remember austins deflection to invasion? It reminded me of that and I dont like it because WWE DROPPED THE BALL with invasion. They can drop the ball even further here because the point should NOT be WWE vs ECW, I repeat, the point should NOT be WWE Vs ECW because all it will lead to is one brand winning over the other and one losing.

The focus should be on creating an exciting new division and show with hardcore wrestling and new superstars. Thats what ECW should be about, it should not be about an OLD rivalry between ECW and WWE because EVERYBODY knows that ended a long time ago when WWE took ECW OUT OF BUSINESS. I mean, even in invasion, WWE ONCE AGAIN TOOK BOTH ECW AND WCW out of business.

Why should we care for them fighting again? WE DON'T! ECW shouldn't have WWE guys, thats like what WWE did in in vasion with having half the roster be WWE guys in invasion when it SHOULD HAVE BEEN WCW guys only.

This smells like A REMAKE.

Also, does anyone find it ODD that Smackdown is now empty of talent? Maybe WWE will go with a full remake and have bischoff make WCW on smackdown! Now that would be STUPID, but hey, WWE is already doing something stupid with this ECW remake.

I want hardcore wrestling just like everyone, but ECW should be another division, heck another brand, but NOT feuding with the WWE. That is quite simply POINTLESS and it smells like a remake of Invasion which was an angle that is universally known for being a FAILED angle.

WWE needs to recover. Send Kurt Angle who has NO BUSINESS in ECW back to Smackdown, and send The Big Show to Smackdown as well. There shouldn't be any rivalvlry between the two, as a matter of fact, I think ECW would have been better off as just a division on one of the brands, not it's own show.
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Old 06-09-2006, 11:51 AM   #2
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They need to move people to ECW... it only has like 15 Wrestlers... And I think(hope) that this ECW vs. WWE thing is only temporary... they did the RAW vs. SmackDown feud last year for a little while too remember... Give it some time before you judge it. ECW hasn't even made it's TV debut yet
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Old 06-09-2006, 11:59 AM   #3
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Damn those bad apples.
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Old 06-09-2006, 12:27 PM   #4
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LOL. Austin's "Deflection."

Fact is, they need big names to help establish a new brand. They've got what, 10 of the original wrestlers, and 4 are able to compete in real matches? They need star power that people will care about. RVD's a good start, but he's part of the original crew. They've signed a lot of new guys, evidently, but they're indy wrestlers. What'll get people's attention? Kurt FREAKIN' Angle. They needed someone big, someone everyone knows, someone who's overwhelmingly liked. And you'd cry so hard about Cena going over there (Besides, he's not liked except by chicks and boys who'd be prime targets for Superslim) that they couldn't pull him. Angle's the prime choice, and it's nothing like the "Deflection" of Austin, given different means (draft), different reasons (to help establish ECW), and different end results (Angle won't be on Smackdown or Raw...Theoretically).
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Old 06-09-2006, 12:36 PM   #5
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Vermaat, do you realize ECW was never about just hardcore wrestling? From the sound of it I don't think you ever actually watched the product.
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Old 06-09-2006, 12:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor
Vermaat, do you realize ECW was never about just hardcore wrestling? From the sound of it I don't think you ever actually watched the product.
Vermaat: No, I didn't watch it, because it was shit back then!
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Old 06-09-2006, 01:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor
Vermaat, do you realize ECW was never about just hardcore wrestling? From the sound of it I don't think you ever actually watched the product.
Probably didn't. But even then, it had an "Extreme/Hardcore" reputation, meaning people who didn't watch it might've been averted by the image of garbage wrestling.

God knows, the promotion for the NEW ECW is enough to make me question whether it'll be worth it.

Thankfully, it probably will be, but the booking just makes me nervous.
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Old 06-09-2006, 02:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Probably didn't. But even then, it had an "Extreme/Hardcore" reputation, meaning people who didn't watch it might've been averted by the image of garbage wrestling.
Thats exactly what I'm talking about though. The people who didn't watch only go by the hardcore reputation; as if that's all the promotion had to offer. Which couldn't be further from the truth. When people go "so-and-so isn't hardcore enough for ECW" it becomes apparent that they have little to no idea as to what ECW was.
  • Tito Santana
  • Dick Murdoch
  • Larry Winters
  • Don Morocco
  • Steve Austin
  • Dean Malenko
  • Chris Benoit
  • Eddy Guerrero
  • Eddie Gilbert
  • Too Cold Scorpio
  • Tracy Smothers (kinda in the middle)
  • 911 (considering he never really had a match he counts)
  • Blue Meanie
  • Scott Hall
  • Sid Vicious
None of these people's were heavy in the hardcore department unless their opponents were people like Sabu or New Jack. ECW was an alternative for people who were tiered of the cartoon wrestling the WWF and WCW had become. People who had grown up with Hulk Hogan but since then had began to want more from their wrestling than "good vs bad; hero prevails." Which is the same situation we are now actually...
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Old 06-09-2006, 03:02 PM   #9
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You forgot the luchas.

Rey Misterio Jr.
Psicosis
Juventud Guerrera
Konnan (he was good at one point)

Hell man even Balls Mahoney was an amateur wrestler...before he punched a ref in high school.
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Old 06-09-2006, 03:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator
You forgot the luchas.

Rey Misterio Jr.
Psicosis
Juventud Guerrera
Konnan (he was good at one point)

Hell man even Balls Mahoney was an amateur wrestler...before he punched a ref in high school.
Balls and RVD had a HELL of a match for the TV Title at Anarchy Rulz in 99
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Old 06-09-2006, 11:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator
You forgot the luchas.

Rey Misterio Jr.
Psicosis
Juventud Guerrera
Konnan (he was good at one point)

Hell man even Balls Mahoney was an amateur wrestler...before he punched a ref in high school.
I never said it was a complete list. But yeah good points.
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Old 06-09-2006, 03:04 PM   #12
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Then the guys in the later years:

Super Crazy
Lil Guido
Tajiri
Jerry Lynn
CW Anderson
Nova
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Old 06-09-2006, 03:07 PM   #13
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i'd love to see 2 Cold Scorpio make an appearence
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Old 06-09-2006, 05:08 PM   #14
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that chairshot was siiiiiick
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Old 06-09-2006, 07:15 PM   #15
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Edge's bump was bad...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKJNA...ecw%20vs%20wwe
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Old 06-09-2006, 07:32 PM   #16
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Oooh... that looked nasty. I'm assuming he was meant to go through the table right?
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Old 06-09-2006, 08:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
The focus should be on creating an exciting new division and show with hardcore wrestling and new superstars.
1) Hardcore wrestling was not what ECW was all about. Look at above posts to see what else ECW brought to the wrestling business.

2) Right new stars - now how do we make new stars? Ah yes you put them against established opposition and big names. Now we have only got one really big name in ECW - Rob Van Dam. In order for ECW to be a global success, they need to have guys that the world knows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
Thats what ECW should be about, it should not be about an OLD rivalry between ECW and WWE because EVERYBODY knows that ended a long time ago when WWE took ECW OUT OF BUSINESS.
No they didn't.
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Old 06-09-2006, 08:53 PM   #18
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You do realise he said "new division and show with hardcore wrestling and new superstars," right?

Now, I'm probably giving VErmie too much credit (by giving him anyway), but that could easily mean a show that includes hardcore action, not a hardcore show exclusively.

That being said, he probably didn't, because I find the notion of Vermie using logic to be UNACCEPTABLE!
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Old 06-09-2006, 08:58 PM   #19
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When are the "facts" and lines of "I didn't watch it, but I had friends that watch it so I used some COMMON SENSE and therefore they're facts" going to come into play? I'll be waiting.
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:48 PM   #20
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WWE bastardized "hardcore" wrestling. They started hitting each other with cooking sheets just for the sake of weapons.

And Vermaat, WWE didn't put ECW out of business...ECW went bankrupt. Then in April, WWE bought it's outstanding debts and video library, thus owning ECW. ECW was on a downward spiral ever since they went on TNN. And the rivalry between WWE and ECW consisted of Vince putting ECW on his payroll, and giving ECW national exposure before Barely Legal.
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:50 PM   #21
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with the creation of ECW, is the Smackdown brand coming to an end? The network (UPN I believe) that Smackdown is on is merging shortly with another network (WB) to become some super huge network. Combining that much television programing on one channel...how likely is it that Smackdown will survive? So Vince can either try to sell Smackdown to another network or... re-focus attention on new ECW and Raw. Moving talent to ECW and Raw from Smackdown could be a sign of this eventual end to Smackdown. I don't think so much that this will culminate in a WWE vs ECW storyline, so much as a beginning of the end for Smackdown. Afterall, which could draw more ratings? The ECW roster or Smackdown roster at this point?
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Old 06-09-2006, 10:10 PM   #22
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Am I the only one who thinks SmackDown! is fine? They have Batista, Rey Mysterio, Bobby Lashley and The Undertaker as top faces. They have King Booker, William Regal, Finlay, Mark Henry, The Great Khali and Ken Kennedy as top heels. Do they really need Kurt Angle and Randy Orton? No. Having those two men swap brands keeps things fluid and exciting for a lot of people. The only fresh feud on SmackDown! for Orton was one with Bobby Lashley. Time to move him. Kurt Angle vs. Batista is something I would have loved to have seen, but maybe they'll be a WWE vs. ECW PPV where this is possible?

Superstars moving from WWE to ECW is a brilliant move. It excites people to be able to see talent switching brands at any time. I'd even love to see guys do double-duty. Mike Bucci could appear on WWE as Simon Dean and ECW as Nova. A face tag team in ECW takes exception to Jamie Noble and Kid Kash using "The Pitbulls" name, so they have an interpromotional feud with them.

WWE stars and ECW stars should not be kept seperate, in my opinion. There isn't much learning experience there. Guys like Big Show and Kurt Angle will help keep ECW as a top tier entity, whilst guys like Balls Mahoney and The Sandman give real ECW fans a reason to tune it. A new influx of talent from the independant scene (like CM Punk) will introduce a new wave of wrestlers which won't offend either audience. Basically, it's a smart move on the WWE's part.

I just hope they really keep the brand switches up. Maybe even have bi-annual drafts? After Summerslam, Paul Heyman could choose two WWE wrestlers to come over and the RAW and SmackDown! GM each gets to take an ECW wrestler.

Instead of this predictable Triple H goes on the same highway to Hell as Shawn Michaels shtick, I'd much rather see Triple H threaten Vince into giving him a continued main event role. Triple H can tell Vince that if he isn't added to the Vengeance main event, he will jump to ECW. Have Rob Van Dam win the WWE Championship at Vengeance, but before he can officially keep the belt in ECW, he must defend it at Vengeance in an Elimination Chamber. Rob Van Dam is already confirmed to be defending against Edge, John Cena gets his rematch in the Chamber, Triple H is added to the match, Randy Orton may as well be in there and the last entrant can be an extra like Mick Foley or Kenny.

ECW should be used in WWE storylines, and I really think it is a smart move by the WWE. Although some may see it as a particularly crippling move to SmackDown!, I think The Undertaker should even go to ECW. He's competed there before, he's got his problems with The Great Khali (which Daivari can claim are the true reason Undertaker left for ECW). Plus ECW needs some science-fiction characters. The Undertaker, Gangrel and Seven can provide this.

This WWE vs. ECW storyline? Good, in my opinion.
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Old 06-09-2006, 10:31 PM   #23
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The Undertaker rarely shows up. Two appearances a month TOPS is not enough.

Lashley is not big enough to be considered a major star right now.

Same with half your heels. Shit, or should never be near ME.

Sure, it's fine for those with a Doug BAsham WHC fetish, but for casual fans?
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Old 06-09-2006, 10:58 PM   #24
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Anyone who complains about Kurt Angle and Big Show being in ECW clearly doesn't understand a thing about Paul Heyman. Heyman has always loved the 'Ultimate Fight' style gimmick...he did it with Tazz, and Kurt Angle, who by the way, is every bit as great as he's made out to be, for god's sake he's the most credible athlete in professional wrestling today, and Heyman will use him correctly. Kurt Angle, the 'machine' has Paul Heyman written all over it, and he can wrestle, everyone knows that. If you can't take a look at Kurt Angle and see what Heyman is going to do with him, I'm not sure you can even call yourself an ECW fan.

As far as the Big Show goes, he's the largest athlete going today. Again, Heyman is going to have big plans for him, and you'll probably see Heyman actually give him character, rather than just lumbering around and generally being there, as the WWE has done over and over in the past. Put Big Show in the ECW atmosphere and he's going to be a monster.

The new ECW IS NOT the old ECW. This is not ECW in the Bingo Hall, this is a new ECW with a new vision. ECW style is still going to be there, just with some major talent to help put over some new stars. By the way, you need stars to help make new stars, and that's what guys like Kurt Angle are going to do. I hate to say it, but the Shane Douglas versus Sabu versus Terry Funk days are over. New stars just don't come out of thin air. You can't reinvent ECW and put the belt on an indy guy you've never heard of. WWE has been the only face in professional wrestling for the last couple of years and it's going to do all it can to give ECW every edge it can get to get over to a mainstream audience.

By the way, for everyone complaining about the WWE versus ECW show...it 'wasn't' an ECW show. One Night Stand is an ECW show. WWE versus ECW was exactly what it said it was going to be, WWE versus ECW. In my opinion, I would stop complaining that you aren't going to be able to see the belt put on Mickey Whipwreck and understand that WWE has some major talent that Heyman can put to use. If this 'was' ECW back in the day, and Kurt Angle left WWE to show up on ECW, he'd be a made man.

I guess the message here is, just watch what Heyman's going to put together. Even if it IS WWECW, it'll be much better than the shit RAW and Smackdown have been shoving down our throats for the last couple of years.



Edit: To seem less ranty, as suggested, and completely correct, cheers.
Last edited by JohnnyA; 06-09-2006 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 06-10-2006, 01:32 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
The Undertaker rarely shows up. Two appearances a month TOPS is not enough.

Lashley is not big enough to be considered a major star right now.

Same with half your heels. Shit, or should never be near ME.

Sure, it's fine for those with a Doug BAsham WHC fetish, but for casual fans?
I realise The Undertaker rarely shows up, but for the occasional show here and there, he could really boost ECW.

Bobby Lashley is not a huge star yet, but the WWE are trying to dedicate a lot of main event time to the guy, the fans are reacting and he seems like a credible entity when he goes out there. He's a great second fiddle guy to Batista and Rey Mysterio. You have to remember that SmackDown! is losing Velocity (not sure if they're going to divide the Heat time up or what), so they don't need six faces and six heels, just two or three solid babyface performers. They have that with Lashley.

The Great Khali does not belong in the main event, but he's there. It's not like there's a number problem. The same goes for Mark Henry. Henry and Khali can really put over talent if they become JTTS, which they really should. Ken Kennedy has "it", and some people see him as a reason alone to watch SmackDown!. King Booker is entertaining as Hell right now, and considering he is a former five-time World Champion and the King of the Ring (which I applaud the WWE for making a big deal about) credibility, as tarnished as it may have been over the years, is no longer an issue with Booker. Finlay and William Regal are the flip-side of the same coin as Henry/Khali. Regal and Finlay have the talent and are deserving of the status. When Batista and Kurt Angle were out, these men should have stepped up to take their place. Like Lashley, they make great upper mid-carders.

By the way, I don't have a Doug Basham for WHC fetish, I have a Doug Basham for solid mid-carder fetish. Marks tend to eat up anything they're given. If Regal and Finlay are presented as main eventers, the marks will boo them like they would Triple H. I doubt either is going to get the World Championship (which appears to be the new name for the WHC, probably in light of Rey Mysterio's size) run, so effectively they're only playing henchmen who the fans want to see get their asses kicked. Their ability makes them great for that role.

I'm not saying SmackDown! is looking better than it ever has, but if you add up the parts, you get a pretty decent show top to bottom. Especially when you consider the presence of tag team wrestling. Angle and Orton would really add nothing but clutter to the show, and it gives us more reason for Henry and Khali to be in the main event (so everyone has a partner). I wouldn't get cocky and put the show in autopilot, but right now they have enough talented performers to make it work, in my opinion.
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Old 06-09-2006, 11:16 PM   #26
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The sad thing is, even though I largely agree with you, your rant there made me want to chop your head off and rape the stump.

Remember, it's 10% what you say, and 90% how you say it. JFK (...K...) called himself a Jelly Donut and people cheered. You managed to say something positive, but make yourself look like a retard in the process.
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Old 06-09-2006, 11:21 PM   #27
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Remake of the invasion? They're just hyping up the re-launch of ECW, you idiot. If nothing was happening, you would complain that they weren't hyping it up enough, ffs....

I am sick of negative fuckheads like you, vermaat.
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Old 06-09-2006, 11:40 PM   #28
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Vermaat doesn't go out of his way to be negative.

In fact, he's usually whining about "negative fuckheads," or as he calls them, "Bad Apples."

But why let reality step in the way of a good rant?
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Old 06-10-2006, 12:10 AM   #29
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Oh Vermaat quit being a bad apple
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Old 06-10-2006, 01:17 AM   #30
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MAKE IT OR BREAK IT
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Old 06-10-2006, 01:17 AM   #31
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I just broke it.
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Old 06-10-2006, 01:18 AM   #32
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Old 06-10-2006, 01:50 AM   #33
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You know something Vermaat? I honestly thought you had a point by skimming through your post. I mean, by skimming I allowed myself the illusion that you were an actual thinking human being. But now...I wish the Dalaks had Exterminated you with all the people on Floor 0. SIG TIME!

Mr. (insert idiotic poster's name here), what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
I've probably never said this, but Shadow knows what he's talking about.
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Old 06-10-2006, 09:26 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow
You know something Vermaat? I honestly thought you had a point by skimming through your post. I mean, by skimming I allowed myself the illusion that you were an actual thinking human being. But now...I wish the Dalaks had Exterminated you with all the people on Floor 0. SIG TIME!
Naw. He shoulda met up with the "Anne-Droid."
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Old 06-10-2006, 02:26 AM   #35
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Unfortunately Shadow, god never grants mercy to people like Vermaat. Vermaat's posts are MAKE IT OR BREAK IT for god's mercy on their pour, helpess souls.
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Old 06-10-2006, 07:04 AM   #36
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`It did seem like Invasion for two very important reasons. Firstly It was ECW vs WWE which is how the invasion turned out (only with wcw aswell). They had 2 entrances which is what they had at Invasion.

However Vermaat may I remind you that a show called "ECW vs WWE Head to Head" is likely going to look like the invasion. Hopefully ECW ONS + their new show will look very much unlike Invasion.

Did anyone else notice that Sabu walked down the WWE ramp as opposed to through the crowd.

Big Show in ECW makes more sense than him being in WWE. period.
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Old 06-10-2006, 08:03 AM   #37
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ECW will make Big Show better, period.....





actually that was 5 periods, 6 if you include the word
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Old 06-10-2006, 10:19 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
The focus should be on creating an exciting new division and show with hardcore wrestling and new superstars. Thats what ECW should be about, it should not be about an OLD rivalry between ECW and WWE because EVERYBODY knows that ended a long time ago when WWE took ECW OUT OF BUSINESS. I mean, even in invasion, WWE ONCE AGAIN TOOK BOTH ECW AND WCW out of business.

Why should we care for them fighting again? WE DON'T! ECW shouldn't have WWE guys, thats like what WWE did in in vasion with having half the roster be WWE guys in invasion when it SHOULD HAVE BEEN WCW guys only.
Who doesn't care for who fighting again? And when did WWE take ECW OUT OF BUSINESS?
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Old 06-10-2006, 10:36 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chico
Who doesn't care for who fighting again? And when did WWE take ECW OUT OF BUSINESS?
They did--In Vermaat's world. Vermaat, who only believes what WWE says (As they are the only reliable source), seems to have ignored (selectively) instances in which WWE has officially said it didn't put ECW out of business (Same with WCW).

He ignores statements, both official AND unofficial when they don't benefit him.
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Old 06-10-2006, 10:32 AM   #40
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Here's how it adds up, following the Vermaat theory, which you should have learned in 4th grade. Paul Heyman was in charge of ECW, Paul Heyman moves to WWE. We can therefor conclude that since Paul Heyman was a WWE employee at that time, WWE did indeed take ECW OUT OF BUSINESS.

On the note of Sabu walking down the WWE ramp. Sabu walked down that ramp and said to everyone in the locker room after the show "I've always wanted to do that."
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