FYI: Dwayne Wade is not Michael Jordan

[BCWWF]

I have heard some comparisons throughout the playoffs, especially from guys like Tony Kornheiser, but simlpy put, Dwayne Wade is not Michael Jordan like. That is not a knock on Wade, it is just the facts.

Wade has had some amazing games in his career and especially in the playoffs. The last game where he lead the comeback was huge, but it is much more Kobe Bryant like than Michael Jordan.

The reason I really hate Wade being called the next Jordan because of the playoffs is because Jordan didn't just come up big in the playoffs. Wade is good in the regular season, but Jordan was always the best in the regular season.

Wade is one of the leagues best players and has done some big things in the playoffs, but Michael Jordan was a special player all season. LeBron James is the only player right now that I think can even compare to Jordan in terms of everything he does, but Tony Kornheiser needs to remember that Michael Jordan was the best player in the world for many years and it will likely be a long time before somebody of his caliber comes around again.

At this point, Wade is more like Kobe Bryant. In 10 years, if Wade has six NBA Titles, a few scoring titles, a few MVP awards and singlehandedly sells out every arena he visits, then I might change my opinion. As of right now, he is simply elite.

[AlphaBean]

Jordan didn't have a ring after 3 years. Fuck you, Wade has the chance to be Jordan.

Busted knee, fighting the flu, he carried that team against a team everyone said had the best depth in the league. A team that was scoring 120 per game. Wade destroyed them.

Wade is the best player right now in the NBA, by far.

But Shaquille O'Neal... he's God.

[Johnny Vegas]

Before anybody says ANYTHING, Wade's career has to END in order for anyone to compare him to Jordan. I will admit that A. Bean has a good point: Wade got his in three...not a bad start. I will admit that Shaq had a impact on Wade and the team but so did Scottie Pippen with Jordan.

Nothing can be said yet, but no telling Dwayne's Talent in years to come. Remember, Jordan got better EVERY YEAR he played. Wade is just getting started...

[BCWWF]

See, you two are both falling into Tony Kornheiser's idiot trap. Winning an NBA Title does not make you Michael Jordan, whether you win it in the first year, second year, third year or ninth year. Kobe Bryant won his first title when he was what, 23? That doesn't make him the next Michael Jordan either.

This is not a knock on Wade, he was just the NBA Finals MVP in his third season for gods sake! He is a great player and is even better in big games, but that's not what Michael Jordan was.

Like Vegas said, it won't be for a long time until we can fully reflect on Wade's legacy. Michael Jordan's legacy is that he is the best player in NBA history. If Wade wins a basket of titles, some MVP's, some scoring titles and earns that distinction, then he will have the legacy of being Dwayne Wade. At the same time, if Wade only wins the title one or two more times, never wins a scoring title, maybe gets the MVP once or so, he will go down in the books as one of the games great players, but not as a Michael Jordan follower, as Dwayne Wade.

[Buzzkill]

Something tells me that even if a player came into the league that was a clone of Michael Jordan's playing style, people would still say that he wouldnt be the next michael jordan.

[Joey Slugs]

tell that to the refs the last two games.

[loopydate]

Originally Posted by Joey Slugs tell that to the refs the last two games.

Told you.

But, yeah, Wade is not Jordan. Honestly, I don't think Wade is even the best player in the league right now. He got really hot in the playoffs, but LeBron and Kobe are both better.

Originally Posted by Johnny Vegas I will admit that Shaq had a impact on Wade and the team but so did Scottie Pippen with Jordan.

That's ridiculous. Jordan impacted Pippen, not the other way around. Jordan didn't have Pippen at the beginning of his career like Wade has Shaq. Jordan had to do everything for his first three years. And Pippen wasn't even an everyday starter until Jordan's sixth year in the league.

Now, if Wade can play all of next season at the pace he played for the last three rounds of the playoffs, then we can start to make the comparison. As of now, the guy just had a hot couple of months.

A lot of players have had hot streaks since Jordan, and a lot of them have been called "The Next Jordan" (and how's that working out for you, Vince Carter?), but none of them could keep it up.

Is Wade great? Absolutely. Will he go down as one of the best of all-time? Wouldn't surprise me.

Is he Michael Jordan? Not by a long shot.

[BCWWF]

Originally Posted by loopydate Honestly, I don't think Wade is even the best player in the league right now. He got really hot in the playoffs, but LeBron and Kobe are both better.

That is the basis of my reasoning.

[AlphaBean]

Originally Posted by BCWWF At this point, Wade is more like Kobe Bryant. In 10 years, if Wade has six NBA Titles, a few scoring titles, a few MVP awards and singlehandedly sells out every arena he visits, then I might change my opinion. As of right now, he is simply elite.

Originally Posted by BCWWF See, you two are both falling into Tony Kornheiser's idiot trap. Winning an NBA Title does not make you Michael Jordan, whether you win it in the first year, second year, third year or ninth year. Kobe Bryant won his first title when he was what, 23? That doesn't make him the next Michael Jordan either.

So the ring does or doesn't matter? He got a ring. Last year, he got to the playoffs in his SECOND YEAR and dominated the shit out of the games, but the team just wasn't good enough to contend. He's clutch. He played well when it mattered.

You think someone like LeBron is the next Jordan because he can put up stats? Doesn't that make him the next AI? The next KG? Stockton?

Kobe was in the league for 5 years before getting his first, and he had Shaq in his prime. All year all we hear is about how Shaq has lost it. And it's obvious he's half the player he was with the Lakers...

And maybe Kobe is up there. But Kobe is selfish. Kobe is an asshole. He's a rapist. Jordan was more than points on the board. He was charisma, sportsmanship and marketability. Kobe could have had it but he pissed it all away. He ruined the Lake show. He destroyed his image. Wade has only cemented himself.

Remember: LeBron singlehandedly pushed the Pistons to 7... but Wade & Co destroyed the defending champions. Then the Mavs, who shat on everyone, dominated everything, came in with a huge swagger... got shut down.

Was it by Shaq? LOL. No. It was Flash... he did it all. He showed heart that Kobe has never had.

The only reason why Wade won't be Jordan?



The most popular players are the ones people can put on hats. And that's the only difference between these guys. Like somebody said... Jordan could be reborn 100% and not be Jordan... without the movies... without jumpman... I think his legend was quite a bit bigger than him. And too many people are so far up Jordan's ass because they grew up watching him... that nobody will ever have the chance to compete.

Not even 20 years later, when teams need to have amazing players to even reach the playoffs, instead of getting to the finals every year with Stockton and Malone.

[loopydate]

Originally Posted by AlphaBean Remember: LeBron singlehandedly pushed the Pistons to 7... but Wade & Co destroyed the defending champions. Then the Mavs, who shat on everyone, dominated everything, came in with a huge swagger... got shut down.

So, Wade is better because he has a better team around him?

And I'm with you on Kobe being a jackass. Doesn't make him a worse player, though. I hate his breathing guts, but he's either the best or second-best player in the NBA right now. And if he had Shaq, Antoine Walker, James Posey, Jason Williams, Gary Payton, Udonis Haslem, et al, he'd have another ring and Wade would still be looking for one.

[Johnny Vegas]

Loopy, Jordan had to do everything by himself in the beginning, right? Where did that get him? No knock on AI because he is one of my favorites, but he became another AI. Sure, he won scoring titles, dunk contest, but if you asked Jordan that right then does that even matter, my money goes to NO. Why? Because if they aren't winning championships that way then they need a different stragedy. Pippen came along and helped bring some firepower to the Bulls' franchise. Trust me, to be in the 50 greatest players list, he had to do something...ESPECIALLY TEAMING NEXT TO MICHAEL JORDAN for the majority of his zenith. So you can't sit here and say that Pippen in no way helped Jordan. Of course Pippen got better with Jordan, but Jordan learned from him probably as well and i bet you if you asked him what i just said, he'd agree.

Just because a man has good stats, doesn't mean he hasn't learned from others.

[loopydate]

Jordan was already great. Pippen helped the Bulls, but I don't think he particularly impacted the way Jordan played. At least not the way that Shaq has impacted the way Wade plays.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Yeah I bet if Michael Jordan was cloned and just started out now, everyone would be saying how he couldn't be the next Michael Jordan.

Not saying Dwayne Wade is the next Jordan, because I don't think he is. At the same time though, it is not like Michael Jordan is easily the greatest player of all time or something. He is up there (obviously) but it is very debatable about who is the "best." I can see why people always compare young players to him because Jordan is recent, but just wait 15-20 years and people will no longer be comparing guys to Jordan, it will be somebody new and different. Maybe even before that somebody will come around that is better than Jordan but nobody will ever admit to it. Before Phil Jackson Michael Jordan was seen as a guy who cared about winning, but felt the only way his team would win is if HE tore it up and scored like 40+ points - sound fimilar? The Bulls made it to the playoffs in his second year, scored 63 points in one game but his team still lost the series - again does this sound fimilar?

Another thing about Wade is how impressive his college career was, Marquette in the Final Four? He's got a pretty good legacy going already, which may or may not continue. He might never win another championship again, you never know. Dan Marino made it to the Superbowl in his rookie season, think we all know what happened there.

[BCWWF]

What it all comes down to is that Michael Jordan was hands down one of the best players in NBA history for many years, and six of those years included NBA Championships. Dwayne Wade has been a bona-fide All Star for the past two years, is able to step it up big-time in the playoffs and has a ring, but he is not doing the things that Jordan did every night. Jordan was the best all-around player in all of the league, maybe in history, right now Wade is an All Star who performs at a higher level in the playoffs.

That being said, fuck it if Shaq isn't the same as he was two years ago. What about Antoine Walker, Jason Williams, Alonzo Mourning, Gary Payton, James Posey...a couple former All Stars, maybe a hall of famer, then some career great players. Even if some of them aren't in their prime anymore, that is one hell of a team to surround Wade and Shaq with.

[AlphaBean]

Originally Posted by BCWWF What it all comes down to is that Michael Jordan was hands down one of the best players in NBA history for many years, and six of those years included NBA Championships. Dwayne Wade has been a bona-fide All Star for the past two years, is able to step it up big-time in the playoffs and has a ring, but he is not doing the things that Jordan did every night. Jordan was the best all-around player in all of the league, maybe in history, right now Wade is an All Star who performs at a higher level in the playoffs. That being said, fuck it if Shaq isn't the same as he was two years ago. What about Antoine Walker, Jason Williams, Alonzo Mourning, Gary Payton, James Posey...a couple former All Stars, maybe a hall of famer, then some career great players. Even if some of them aren't in their prime anymore, that is one hell of a team to surround Wade and Shaq with.

That is the weakest argument ever. Shaq is nothing compared to his last ring season. Mourning had a great game 6, but besides that he's 36 and almost dead. Payton was washed up 3 years ago as well. Jason Williams is worthless. Walker is disgusting and shouldn't even have a ring. Posey is a hard worker like a Horry or a Prince or another role player, and Haslem is like a Horace Grant... role players. It was Wade the entire time. Shaq didn't even factor as much as he could have.

To say Shaq changed how Wade played? Bullshit. Wade had the Lakers team last year and did better in his second year than Kobe did in the prime of his career with the same team with a few improvements. Kobe could only win with Shaq in his prime. Now, Wade is coming into his prime, and already has a ring before Kobe, before Jordan, before any of these players had a ring. Not necessarily age-wise, but experience-wise, Wade has them beaten.

And Jordan wouldn't have done shit without Pippen.

And Kobe isn't a better player just because he can score 80 points. Stephon Marbury is living proof of why a talented scorer isn't necessarily the best player in the league. It's not like baseball, where hitting 50 home runs a year is all you need to get a ring.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Take away Jordan and Wade, which team is better?

The Heat or the Bulls (to make it easier, say the 2nd 3 peat)

[AlphaBean]

Originally Posted by sTiMa34 Take away Jordan and Wade, which team is better? The Heat or the Bulls (to make it easier, say the 2nd 3 peat)

Take away Malone and Nowitzki, which team is better, the 1990s Jazz or the 2006 Mavs?

[loopydate]

Originally Posted by AlphaBean And Kobe isn't a better player just because he can score 80 points.

No. He's a better player because:

- He's a better scorer.
- He's a better rebounder.
- He has more championship experience (which I've never bought as the benchmark for greatness, but everybody else seems to)
- He also plays like an MVP candidate during the regular season.

Wade is a slightly better defender and has a fairly large advantage as a passer (although, when Kobe was Wade's age, he averaged more APG and steals than Wade did this year). But as an all-around player, Kobe is better.

I hate the guy, but Kobe is probably the second-best all-around player in the game behind LeBron. Wade is close, but he's not there yet. Once he's the best player in the league (which may happen in the next 2-3 years), we can start to make the comparison. But nobody was calling Jordan the best player in history until Bird and Magic started to wind down their careers.

[AlphaBean]

Originally Posted by loopydate No. He's a better player because: - He's a better scorer. - He's a better rebounder. - He has more championship experience (which I've never bought as the benchmark for greatness, but everybody else seems to) - He also plays like an MVP candidate during the regular season. Wade is a slightly better defender and has a fairly large advantage as a passer (although, when Kobe was Wade's age, he averaged more APG and steals than Wade did this year). But as an all-around player, Kobe is better. I hate the guy, but Kobe is probably the second-best all-around player in the game behind LeBron. Wade is close, but he's not there yet. Once he's the best player in the league (which may happen in the next 2-3 years), we can start to make the comparison. But nobody was calling Jordan the best player in history until Bird and Magic started to wind down their careers.

Isn't Wade a PG? Kind of a different benchmark than, well, a 2? Dunno, maybe Wade's a 2 too, but I coulda sworn he's running point.

And maybe you're right, at this point in his career, Kobe was a better player, but he got real bad. So we can wait and see. Scoring points means nothing if you can't get wins. That's what I'm saying.

Wade got some wins against the deepest team in the NBA, with a very shallow rotation, and half of them doing more harm than good (see the Glove whining and turning the ball over, White Chocolate chucking up a million characteristic threes, and Antoine Walker doing the same?)

The only player who truly impressed me in that series though, besides fucking Jason Terry who really has come into his own hardcore, is Udonis Haslem. Mostly because he's got that mean mug on his face all the time which turns me on, but he totally is a Rodman/Horace Grant for the new millenium... if he can continue on this pace. We'll have the next Magic and the next Grant.

[BCWWF]

I think Wade was primarily a point guard when he came into the league but when the Heat signed Jason Williams he moved over most of the time. That was a move I thought was awful, I couldn't see why you would want to take the ball out of Wade's hands, but I guess it worked out for them. At the same time, Williams didn't really play much down the stretch did he?

[The Outlaw]

Williams had an average series against the Pistons. He had one or two bad games I think. He was 10-10 at one time, and then missed an easy layup and had another shot go in and out. Ended with 21 points in the series-ending game. He played his role perfectly against Dallas. Shot when he was open, hit some shots, and handled the ball very well. He only had two games in the finals where he scored double digits, but he always had more assists than turnovers which was huge. He always had like 8 points and 6 assists or 6 points and 7 assists. Nothing huge but he took the pressure of bringing the ball up the court off DWade. That's the reason they brought him in, because in the past Wade had to bring the ball up the court/score/get Shaq involved/do a little of everything. Bringing Jay and GP in brought two ball handling guys in, which benefited Miami and Wade himself. His turnovers went down a lot this year, this being the main reason I thought.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Wade has always been a 2 guard I thought? In title anyways, with the Heat offense it doesn't really matter who is the 1 2 or 3 (if Walker is in the game) because any one of them can set up the offense.

but I think in title he has always been a 2 guard

[The Outlaw]

Yeah he has always been a SG or whatev, but he did a lot less bringing the ball up this year than last and the year before.

[AlphaBean]

Hahahaha I can't keep up this argument.

All I know is, I enjoy watching Wade play more than anyone else right now. And I was never really a big Jordan fan, either. So I can easily say it's my opinion that Wade's better. But I do believe that Jordan was overrated, because of his marketability.