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Old 02-05-2004, 12:03 PM   #1
Paranoid Rattlesnake
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Hosses are good??
It always amazes me how different types of people perceive WWE wrestling in completely different ways.


Certain ‘smart marks’ of this world are so obsessed by workrate they constantly give the impression they wouldn’t be happy unless every single pay-per-view had three cruiserweight matches on it, Chris Benoit was World Champ for life and Triple H was jobbed out to Paul London at the next given opportunity. But not everyone has that opinion – which is why Vince McMahon has to tailor his product to suit a diverse range of customer needs.


Take my five-year-old brother, for example. He is obsessed by giants. Hence The Big Show and Mark Henry are his two favourite wrestlers. Like it or not, their larger-than-large appearance – and the fact that big dudes appeal to a certain type of fan - is exactly why these unco-ordinated galoots are on the WWE payroll. Well, that and the fact Vince was once stupid enough to sign them to 10-year contracts.


Watching an episode of RAW with a female who hates wrestling can also be a fascinating experience. Last fridays RAW, in the rare company of the ravishing laura, was an insight into a completely different perspective. Having no interest in seeing a great match, a well-booked storyline or an entertaining promo, instead she made her judgements on each RAW wrestler based solely on their appearance. Bear in mind my dear girl is an assistant manager at a leading fashion retail store. So in her line of work, image is everything…and first impressions count.


Here was her initial reaction, bearing in mind she knows very little about any of them, on seeing the following list of superstars come out on fridays’s RAW:


Rob Van Dam - “Silly hairdo.”

Booker T – “Looks like that bloke from the Black Eyed Peas.”

Matt Hardy – “Don’t care for his outfit.”

Scott Steiner – “Is he mummified?”

Rene Dupree – “Tan line is too obvious.”

Chris Jericho – “Wears lilac pants, enough said.”

Triple H – “Has to be the ugliest man alive. Can’t he afford a nose job?”

Mark Henry – “You can’t put a man that size in a leotard.”

Batista – “What a hunk.”


What does this prove? Well, some ‘smart marks’ often give the impression they don’t think a wrestler’s look is very important. They reckon as long as he can perform a shooting star press or an Exploder suplex, it doesn’t matter if he’s five foot six and has all the muscle definition of a warthog.


But the fact is, it DOES matter. McMahon wants two things from his WWE TV shows – high ratings and to attract new fans. And if getting casual channel-hoppers or the likes of Laura to tune into RAW every week means giving TV time to a handsome, well-tanned physical specimen with all the wrestling ability of a turnip (like, say, Batista) at the expense of more talented types who fell out of the ugly tree and hit one or two branches on the way down (like Kanyon, remember him?) then that is exactly what he will continue to do. Like it or not, which I don’t. But at least I accept it.


On a side note, after Rico came prancing out last night for his match with Mark Henry, kissed Theodore Long on his bald bonce before mounting the World’s Strongest Man and riding him around the ring doggy-style, Laura turned to me and said: “So what’s his gimmick then?”


Bless her.

JUST WHEN YOU THINK YOU'VE GOT THE ANSWERS, I CHANGE THE QUESTIONS
Last edited by Paranoid Rattlesnake; 02-05-2004 at 12:53 PM. Reason: KK humiliated me
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Old 02-05-2004, 12:10 PM   #2
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TAKE THAT, SMARKS! A FIVE YEAR OLD HAS PWND U!
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Old 02-05-2004, 12:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
TAKE THAT, SMARKS! A FIVE YEAR OLD HAS PWND U!
A FIVE YEAR OLD HAS OWNED YOU AS WELL AS PWND YOU
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Old 02-05-2004, 12:21 PM   #4
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Old 02-05-2004, 12:41 PM   #5
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Well no offence to the chick, but who cares what she thinks? My guess is that whether Batista or RVD was being pushed, she wont be buying tickets to a wrestling event.

I dont think anyone on the net thinks that wrokrate is the main determinant when it comes to who to push. I mean most of us were around for Hogan's run on top and then for the Bret/HBK era. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that if workrate was key, HBK and Bret would have sold out arenas every night and Hogan would have been screwed in Montreal.

But, just like being a good worker isn't a recipe for great business, being a huge guy isn't a recipe for great business either. Undertaker did well as a big man, but he's not one of the top draws of all time, and guys like Nash and Sid are considered the worst champions when it comes to business.

The biggest PPV draw in WWE history is The Rock, now he wasn't Benoit in the ring, but he was an above average worker, if fact I'll go so far as to say he was a very good in ring performer. Steve Austin who sold more merchandise than anyone else and made Vince a billionaire for a while there, isn't a big man, and he was a helluva worker. You could say they all had great looks, but they were also great workers.

So, there is no winning formula. The problem I have with the business is Vince's inability to create new stars when they are needed to sustain business. Thats not to say Chris Benoit will set business on fire, but whats wrong with giving him a legit chance. Why is it that Benoit was mid card for life for the past 4 years and never gven a chance to run with the ball, yet Big Show gets chance after chance, and he's never done any good for business? Why does A-Train get pushed over RVD? Why is Hunter still on top even though he does nothing positive for business? These questions have nothing to do with workrate, its about paying attention to business, and being able to make tough decisions.

The other problem is that everyone nowadays looks like they came out of a cookie cutter. Wrestling is about being able to connect with fans, and not everyone on a wrestling show can do it. Its even more difficult to accomplish this when everyone has the same gimmick of being north of 6'4 and jacked up. I mean I would challenge her to tell the difference between Cade and Jindrak, or between O'Haire and Batista, or Orlando, well he's black he sticks out a little. But you get the point that everyone of the new guys has the same look. John Cena wasn't going anywhere until he got a gimmick, then he started to catch on, now he's arguably one of the top 2 or 3 faces in the whole company. John Cena the jacked up guy in tights wans't over, but John Cena the Dr of Thuganomics is on fire.

Or take Mick Foley, if your girlfirend were to see him from back in the day she might say "what an out of shape fashion nightmare" and seem disinterested. But we all know that Mick is one of the top performers of all time. Int he current WWE world a Mick Foley wouldn't even get into an OVW tryout camp let alone in the WWE. Thats sad, because in wrestling there isn't one forumla that makes a great wrestler, you need a cast of characters.
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Old 02-05-2004, 12:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick
Well no offence to the chick, but who cares what she thinks?
Well, women are the primary target audience in the WWE...Thus totally validating the example.
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Old 02-05-2004, 12:52 PM   #7
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BTW, it's hosses.

Just thought I'd clear it up...One of the biggest problems with spelling on this board appears to be the whole apostrophe deal.
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Old 02-05-2004, 12:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Well, women are the primary target audience in the WWE...Thus totally validating the example.
Yeah thats why Jeff hardy is coming back and getting that 4 year World Title reign.
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Old 02-05-2004, 12:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick
Yeah thats why Jeff hardy is coming back and getting that 4 year World Title reign.

Yeah...To please the female fans...

BOTH of them.
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Old 02-05-2004, 01:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Rattlesnake
Batista – “What a hunk.”


your girlfriend has bad taste in men.

But I guess that's why she's with you eh?
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Old 02-05-2004, 01:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyman


your girlfriend has bad taste in men.

But I guess that's why she's with you eh?
ZING!
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Old 02-05-2004, 01:18 PM   #12
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Bear in mind that no one's really right and as Cynick pointed out, there's no winning formula. You can only hope to balance everything evenly to appeal to the people who are watching for whatever reasons be it the hot, studly body of Batista, the dominating power of Mark Henry, the high-flying skills of Rey Mysterio, the technical workrate of Kurt Angle, or the entertainment and mic skills of The Rock. Some are kept tuned in for a dramatic storyline, others for an awesome mat exhibition, others for a particular series of vignettes. Whatever reason, something has to keep a person hooked and tuning in for more and not just an overview of a person's outfit or look. Like Cynick pointed out also, I doubt this Laura that Rattlesnake was referring to is going to be consistantly purchasing tickets, PPVs, and merchandise if she was turned off from the real elements of sports entertainment.
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Old 02-05-2004, 01:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
ZING!
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Old 02-05-2004, 01:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-A-G
be it the hot, studly body of Batista,


p.s.
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Old 02-05-2004, 01:23 PM   #15
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(Kane Knight) Yeah and one of those female fans is Chyna so does that count?
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Old 02-05-2004, 01:26 PM   #16
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Wink
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyman


p.s.
Hey, I'm not ashamed to say it. That's a lot of hunk of man!
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Old 02-05-2004, 01:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-A-G
Hey, I'm not ashamed to say it. That's a lot of hunk of man!
He is quite the sexy beast eh?
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Old 02-05-2004, 01:57 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick
John Cena wasn't going anywhere until he got a gimmick, then he started to catch on, now he's arguably one of the top 2 or 3 faces in the whole company. John Cena the jacked up guy in tights wans't over, but John Cena the Dr of Thuganomics is on fire.
Exactly The WWE needs to start giving these young guys good gimmicks, so the fans are able to understand the guy's character when he comes out to the ring. But we all know what happens when you are given a GREAT and unique character by Vince, now don't we. ***coughSEANO'HAIREcough**
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Old 02-05-2004, 02:03 PM   #19
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Personally I think appearance is a huge factor. Not necessarily in the terms of comeliness or whathaveyou, I could give a sh*t about that (except when it comes to some female wrestlers, if they're being marketed as sex appeal they should have it).

But anyway, I am not going to get behind someone who looks like a tool, whether I'm a smark, mark, 5 year old or some chick who thinks Batista is hot. (Batista looks like a f*cking bird.)

I agree with nearly everything said here, by PR, Cynick, and everyone, variety has been pointed out in these posts. And yeah we all do understand that it takes more than just being able to wrestle, that's good. There are some wrestlers who have great matskills that I could really give a shit about as far as TV-time goes.

Going back to my mark days... when I was as tall as my knee I liked Hogan the best, because everyone liked Hogan and he won alot and was champ alot and all that. He was a big guy who had a great gimmick, but it was so easy to like him because everyone and their mother got behind him in every match. Some things rub off.

Then I became a huge Bret mark. He was awesome on the mat. And he is arguably the greatest the sport has seen (many would say he is). And without question that is a greatly backed opinion to those who have it.

Even in these days, I still mark the f*ck out for The Rock. He's pretty godly to me, and he's a huge superstar right now. I think he is going to go even further than he has already, and I really think deep down when it's all said and done, he will go down as the most popular wrestler ever among other things.

One of the things these three guys had in common: They don't look like complete tools. They have/had unique appearances and gimmicks. (Bret Hart is one of the only men that will ever get away with wearing pink tights and being taken seriously.)

Some people mark out for hosses. I personally don't like them (not just because they're big, or can't wrestle or what have you, but because they are like a dime a dozen to me... you can't have the "big guy" gimmick when there's 10 of them...) Let's compare.

Andre the Giant. King Kong Bundy. Yokozuna. Big guys. Up there in push-status.

Big Show. A-Train. Mark Henry. Kane. Undertaker. Rikishi. (Don't get me wrong, I like Kane and Taker a LOT. But being huge has little to no bearing anymore IMO.)

To me it would be like having five guys say, "Know your role," and five more say, "You're next!" Just starts to lose its magic. (Not that Goldberg saying BOO NECKS does anything for me. But it does for alot of people.)

Anyway, I can see the point/purpose of the post. And btw I'm not one of the smarks that wants to see three cruiserweight matches, it isn't my cup of tea. I guess it all goes back to the point of variety everyone's made. But those are my bones to pick about hosses - can't have too many or it isn't variety, it's common.
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Old 02-05-2004, 02:37 PM   #20
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nice copy and paste dude http://www.wrestling-x.co.uk/truthdiaries.htm
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Old 02-05-2004, 02:53 PM   #21
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Might consider the possibility that he wasn't claiming for it to be 'his' post. Note the title "Hosses are good?" Specifically, note the question mark...

"Dude."

Edit: Initially, I thought it was his post. But in retrospect of the link, it's quite clear that he wasn't trying to 'steal' anything from the internet or anything... But rather quote it, show people and go, "Hosses are good?" Just edited to clarify for the "dude."
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Old 02-05-2004, 03:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rock Bottom
Personally I think appearance is a huge factor.
OMG. Why are there so many homosexuals posting in this thread? Seriously - I've got nothing against homosexuals, but can this sort of 'crap' be kept behind closed doors? This is a wrestling forum for god sakes. If you want to have homoerotic feelings towards Batista or whomever, then that's your deal. Just please keep these feelings to yourself man.
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Old 02-05-2004, 03:26 PM   #23
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lol, I don't think Batista is a stud muffin . Anyway everything always varies.
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Old 02-05-2004, 03:31 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rock Bottom
Not necessarily in the terms of comeliness or whathaveyou, I could give a sh*t about that (except when it comes to some female wrestlers, if they're being marketed as sex appeal they should have it).
Immunized!

Now let's talk about your avatar.
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Old 02-05-2004, 04:16 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rock Bottom
Might consider the possibility that he wasn't claiming for it to be 'his' post. Note the title "Hosses are good?" Specifically, note the question mark...

"Dude."

Edit: Initially, I thought it was his post. But in retrospect of the link, it's quite clear that he wasn't trying to 'steal' anything from the internet or anything... But rather quote it, show people and go, "Hosses are good?" Just edited to clarify for the "dude."
Taking into account 2 things.

1) Everyone who quotes something is supposed to show the source, in this case we have been led to believe this is a column written by the poster Paranoid Rattlesnake

2) Paranoid Rattlesnake has, in the past, copy and pasted stuff off other websites in an attempt to pass it off has his own......

hmmmm
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Old 02-05-2004, 04:30 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyman
OMG. Why are there so many homosexuals posting in this thread? Seriously - I've got nothing against homosexuals, but can this sort of 'crap' be kept behind closed doors? This is a wrestling forum for god sakes. If you want to have homoerotic feelings towards Batista or whomever, then that's your deal. Just please keep these feelings to yourself man.
Dude. You're a wrestling fan with a Michael Jackson obsession. Come out of the closet and stop hatin'.
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Old 02-05-2004, 04:39 PM   #27
Rock Bottom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus Sid
Taking into account 2 things.

1) Everyone who quotes something is supposed to show the source, in this case we have been led to believe this is a column written by the poster Paranoid Rattlesnake

2) Paranoid Rattlesnake has, in the past, copy and pasted stuff off other websites in an attempt to pass it off has his own......

hmmmm
Well, I can't speak for that. Wasn't aware.
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Old 02-05-2004, 07:00 PM   #28
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True. Shame on you PR! Don't be like wrestling_god!


Anyway, it's definitely a balance, but at the same time, how you use these characters is key too. I don't think many people actually are enraged by the fact that the hosses are on the company. After all, variety is always great. It's the fact that practically all the hosses get pushed while only one or two Cruisers get attention. That's what pisses people off. Well, Smarks at least.
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