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Old 10-26-2006, 04:13 AM   #1
Lara Emily
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Annd Sony just keeps the bullshit rolling
http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/19/s...hus-costs-700/




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Old 10-26-2006, 04:21 AM   #2
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LOL

Superbastards.
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Old 10-26-2006, 04:25 AM   #3
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Sorry, unless i'm missing something here, they do seem to have a valid point, that if you want an Xbox to meet the same specs as a PS3 it's gonna cost you overall more as an investment?

For the record I hate Sony for what they did yesterday, this just seems like a clever peice of marketing, granted some people will be fooled by it because they are not researching into what they actually want or need, if your going to spend this much cash on a product, you need to make sure you know what you're getting
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Old 10-26-2006, 04:34 AM   #4
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It's clever marketing. That's not them being bastards, that's them doing business.
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Old 10-26-2006, 04:34 AM   #5
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HDD is not needed for games, since they are including the Wii, they are clearly attempting to make a game console comparison. Online for Ps3 will likely not be really free as game companies will probably charge you to play their games online, they also ignore that you can get most of the features the core 360 lacks with the premimum package which costs about 399$ (you get everything minus free online and HDD drive which you don't need anyway)

It's BS
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Old 10-26-2006, 04:35 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do?
It's clever marketing. That's not them being bastards, that's them doing business.
Marketing or not it's still BS.
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Old 10-26-2006, 04:38 AM   #7
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Yeah, but it might look like you need to buy the HD-DVD, according to that chart. Imagine if you are non-gamer salesperson or a parent buying an XBox for your kids at Christmas. That chart will make you think more about a PS3 if a 360 is gonna run you $700.

It's misleading in Sony's fvour. Dirty pool.
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Old 10-26-2006, 04:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do?
It's clever marketing. That's not them being bastards, that's them doing business.
False portraying a rival's specs is bastardly, especially around Christmas time when many of the people buying consoles will be non-gaming (and thus uninformed) parents buying for their kids.

I sincerely hope Microsoft wins that lawsuit (probably the only time I'll ever say or type that).
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Old 10-26-2006, 04:50 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Fly
False portraying a rival's specs is bastardly, especially around Christmas time when many of the people buying consoles will be non-gaming (and thus uninformed) parents buying for their kids.

I sincerely hope Microsoft wins that lawsuit (probably the only time I'll ever say or type that).
Assuming there's any truth to MS planning on suing I just quoted that site because that's where I found the chart initially.

Anyway drop the 50$ for the wireless controller because it's included in the 399$ premimum, the 50$ xbox live is negated by the fact that once again the Xbox 360 Premimum package includes HD cables whereas the PS3 core package will apparantly not and you'll need to buy it at 50$

So it all comes down to the drives, if you want all the snazzy bells and whistles of playing HD or Blue Ray movie, neither of which have proven to have any staying power yet then sure maybe you can some how say the PS3 is cheaper by 50 bucks.

But for a pure game console the fact is this: An HDD is not required to play games on the 360, a Blue Ray Drive is for the PS3, thus in gaming only PS3 costs more.

Plus who knows how much games are going to cost, we could maybe be looking at 100$ for some games just because it's Blue Ray. (but that's just speculation on my part)
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Old 10-26-2006, 04:52 AM   #10
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Meh. The big issue here seems to be the HDDVD player. Sony can play Blu-ray movies. If Xbox wants to compete with that, then it would need an HDDVD player. So to say that they'd need to buy one to be on level with the PS3 is not a lie.

Essentially, one can play next gen movie formats, one can't. For them to be even, both would have to be able to.

The only grounds to argue on is the use of the word "require" which I agree, is underhanded. However, Sony isn't in the wrong. They are a business who's primary concern is to turn a profit.

"Facts" exist for the sake of being manipulated. All companies do it.
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Old 10-26-2006, 04:56 AM   #11
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So to review.

Premium X-Box for $399 has all the stuff the Core PS3 advertises, minus the Blu Ray player, for 100 cheaper.

But if you add a next gen media player to the 360, it's no longer cheaper.
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:00 AM   #12
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what's a ps3?
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do?
Meh. The big issue here seems to be the HDDVD player. Sony can play Blu-ray movies. If Xbox wants to compete with that, then it would need an HDDVD player. So to say that they'd need to buy one to be on level with the PS3 is not a lie.

Essentially, one can play next gen movie formats, one can't. For them to be even, both would have to be able to.

The only grounds to argue on is the use of the word "require" which I agree, is underhanded. However, Sony isn't in the wrong. They are a business who's primary concern is to turn a profit.

"Facts" exist for the sake of being manipulated. All companies do it.

Then the Wii shouldn't be in that chart at all cause it's not going to be the big media centre that either the PS3 and 360. The fact that they put it there clearly shows (and why am I saying this again) that they are trying to do a game console (not media centre) comparison

Besides all that aisde the fact remains they still misrepresent prices, since you can get the 20Gb HD, the Wireless Controller for 399$, plus you get your HD cables, where as for 499$ sure you get the Blue Ray drive (which right now is fucking worthless in terms of movies anyway) but you don't get your cables, for those you need to spend 50$ or get the premimum and get a few more whistles at 599$ and low and behold when you compare full.

That's where the lie is you will never have to spend 700$ for the upgraded core 360
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:11 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do?
So to review.

Premium X-Box for $399 has all the stuff the Core PS3 advertises, minus the Blu Ray player, for 100 cheaper.

But if you add a next gen media player to the 360, it's no longer cheaper.
Yes and No

Because the Premium 360 with HDD comes to about 599$ more or less

The core PS3 comes to 499$ but then you need to the HD cables, which is then 549$ (which buy then you might as well buy the premium package which gets you a 60 GB HD at 599$)

Fuck the online comparison, some companies are going to charge you to play online, not to mention the quality of online service is different.

The fact remains though: Microsoft is not forcing you to buy their 200$ "Next Gen DVD drive", Sony is. This chart is all about the game console not the overall media centre crap (otherwise the Wii shouldn't be in there at all)
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:18 AM   #15
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Is it wrong that I can't comprehend this conversation?
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:25 AM   #16
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Is it wrong that I can't comprehend this conversation?
I was with it at the start then loads more numbers and $ signs kepts showing up.

In short, sony have put out marketing that states for the 360 to be a viable comparison on all levels, you need to spend more overall. The Wii shouldn't be there are it's not up-gradable and is in a different market range.

WWKD and me agree that Sony have just done clever marketing.

Lara believes that Sony are shit bags (well I agree with that one) and have acted improperly
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:27 AM   #17
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The Wii is there because it's a next generation system. It makes sense for it to be there. All 3 are gaming systems. However, the 360 and PS3 are also media systems. What they seem to be doing is comparing the 360 and Ps3 as media systems... The Wii is up there since it is a next gen game system, but it can't compete in terms of media systems... Essentially, if you want a media system, don't get a WII.,


Anywho.... With the premium X-Box, you only get Silver X-Box Live.... I honestly don't know what the hell the difference is between Gold and Silver, but anywho. You're right, for the 399 cost, you get the 20G, you get the wireless controller, and you get some sort of online play.

So yeah, Essentially, the Core PS3 is 100 more exspensive than the Premium X-Box, but you get a Bluray player, which at this time, Microsoft isn't making you by something comparable to it. They might in the future, who knows.

Just to go back to my original point though, outside of the use of the word "Required" the Sony comparrison does nothing wrong. They aren't lying. They're basically saying "If you bought a core Xbox 360 and upgraded, this is what it would cost." While these facts aren't really relevant, since you can get the Premium for cheaper, they aren't lies.

It's a smart business move. I'm not going to act like Sony is the devil because they're doing smart business.
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:43 AM   #18
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Microsoft has said they have zero plans of ever making HD DVD games on the 360, granted things change but that's the facts right now.

The problem with their quoting is again though that you don't need and never have needed to buy wireless controllers and the HD drive seperately at full price.
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Old 10-26-2006, 06:04 AM   #19
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lol, the next-next generation will be coming out by the time bluray has got even a remotely decent selection of movies, fuck that
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Old 10-26-2006, 06:24 AM   #20
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Anybody who actually gets taken in at all by that kind of comparison deserves to be wrung for every penny they have.
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Old 10-26-2006, 07:59 AM   #21
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Ok, look.

Misrepresenting facts =/= clever marketing.

It =/= lying.

Unfortunately for consumers, lying =/= illegal.
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Old 10-26-2006, 08:21 AM   #22
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Explain how spinning the facts isn't clever marketing?

Also, explain to me where Sony is lying? Especially if you take the "required" aspect to mean that they would be required to be on level with the core PS3 system.
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Old 10-26-2006, 08:25 AM   #23
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At no point did Sony lie, they just didn't tell the whole truth
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Old 10-26-2006, 09:10 AM   #24
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Semantics. It's still attempted deception.
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Old 10-26-2006, 09:21 AM   #25
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Indeed, Sony have dug themselves a hole and deception is their only option right now. Saying "hey its twice as expensive but its worth it honestly please please buy it!" will not cut it with parents stressed to fuck over christmas and their whiny little brat kids.
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Old 10-26-2006, 11:36 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Youell
Sorry, unless i'm missing something here, they do seem to have a valid point, that if you want an Xbox to meet the same specs as a PS3 it's gonna cost you overall more as an investment?
Note the words "requires user to buy."

Note that, while the WII has a DVD attatchment planned, it's not factored in as a requirement.

Yeah...
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Old 10-26-2006, 11:40 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Note the words "requires user to buy."

Note that, while the WII has a DVD attatchment planned, it's not factored in as a requirement.

Yeah...
Have Nintendo released a price for said DVD add on?

Has anyone got a copy of the entire document Sony have released other than that table?
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Old 10-26-2006, 01:26 PM   #28
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Stop bitching. It's just a console. Your constant complaining isn't going to make Sony pull out of the "console war" or persuade anyone who was going to purchase away from it.

The image makes complete sense and it's obvious that you understand that. To match the PS3, a core 360 would require a hard drive, HD-DVD drive, a gold membership, and a wireless controller. Even with the premium 360 you would still have to buy an HD-DVD drive and a gold membership which would be $650.

And stop trying to make up things to make the free PS3 network look bad. It is free out of the box and you don't need a $50 subscription. It doesn't matter if game companies make you pay because it would be just as if they made you pay for the 360. Only ones that are going to make you pay are going to be MMOs which is almost obvious.
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Old 10-26-2006, 01:32 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Youell
Have Nintendo released a price for said DVD add on?
Why, logically, would you treat an unknown as 0, though? They're already doctoring the prices....
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Old 10-26-2006, 01:34 PM   #30
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What? If you're talking about the price comparison the DVD Drive is down as N/A.
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Old 10-26-2006, 02:17 PM   #31
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Which is treating it as a 0. N/A Means Not Applicable. And while I Didn't mention money (I said 0, btw, not $0), this greatly impacts the cost of the WII. Hell, they even misrepresented the WII's online service.

By the way, Youell, you asked if anyone had access to the rest of the document. Are you too retarded to actually think to look at the article, click the link, and read it yourself? It's not that hard to find the full "fact sheet." I'd imagine, since this is an actual Sony release, it can also be found on Sony's corporate site, but I wouldn't want you to strain yourself any more than necessary.

(Sorry to tack this on to my response to you, DS, but I'd forgotten to reply to part 2 of Youell's message).
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:36 PM   #32
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DIdn't read much of the thread, but Sony announced at our managers conference the "core" Ps3 does come with the HDMI cables now.
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:37 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Youell
Have Nintendo released a price for said DVD add on?

Has anyone got a copy of the entire document Sony have released other than that table?
At last stand Nintendo dropped the DVD add on.
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Old 10-26-2006, 07:46 PM   #34
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All this mean is that the PS3 is still going to suck.
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Old 10-26-2006, 10:14 PM   #35
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ALSO The Wii's online access will be $0 for the first six months and $0 after the first six months. It will always be $0 from what I know.
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Old 10-26-2006, 10:16 PM   #36
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Nope.
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/26/wi...til-june-2007/
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Old 10-26-2006, 10:26 PM   #37
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Oh, it was their Wifi gaming that will always be free. I don't know if I'll need the browser or not.
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Old 10-26-2006, 10:39 PM   #38
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well if you get the browser before june 2007 you're fine

you should be killed if you dont' have a wii by then anyway
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Old 10-27-2006, 06:07 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
By the way, Youell, you asked if anyone had access to the rest of the document. Are you too retarded to actually think to look at the article, click the link, and read it yourself? It's not that hard to find the full "fact sheet." I'd imagine, since this is an actual Sony release, it can also be found on Sony's corporate site, but I wouldn't want you to strain yourself any more than necessary.
Sorry, I meant I was after a statement from Sony that accompanies the tables, yes i've linked via the story and it goes to another page from the same site with no source linked.

I just want to see the line of text which states you MUST have all this on the Xbox.

Also buddy, why have you got to be so agressive all the dam time?
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Old 10-27-2006, 06:26 AM   #40
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It's the hormones.
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