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Old 01-05-2007, 02:39 AM   #1
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Finals or not?
This is a general sporting question cos I know of a few sports that have finals systems at the end of the normal regular season, and others that don't. My question is do you prefer - for your sport - a situation where you have a regular league season with the team on top at the end declared the champions...OR...having the top half of the ladder play off in a finals series post-regular season to determine the champion?

Here in Australia many if not all the sports from what I gather employ a finals system at the end of the year. I am personally against this, because the team that has been the most consistent over the course of the season does not necessarily win the championship. This year the system benifited my team in soccer because we finished 3rd but won the Grand Final after having a 100% record in the finals system, but other years my team has finished outright first but underperformed in the finals and been knocked out.

The most farcical thing I have ever heard in my life is in one year in the 1940s only 4 teams competed in the Aussie Rules league because other teams pulled out due to the World War. One team (Fitzroy) finished DEAD LAST and won something like 2 games all year, but because there were only 4 teams, there was still a top 4 finals series so Fitzroy qualified. They then went on to become the champions because they won their finals game. Absolute farce!

My personal preference for not only soccer but other sports be the team on top at the end of the season being rewarded the championship (first past the post system) and instead of a finals series perhaps introduce a knock-out Cup competition or add another one in.

What are people's preferences? People I have spoken to about it are very mixed in their opinions, some like finals others don't. What is everyone's thoughts?
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Old 01-05-2007, 03:26 AM   #2
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The thing with Fitzroy happened during first WW, not WWII.

Personally, I like the finals system because it creates excitement and you get the climatic ending to it all. Of course the best side doesn't always win, but the attitude is that it's all about playing well when it matters. This year in the NRL the Melbourne Storm dominated the season, ended up with the best record ever after a season, then lost the big one when it mattered. Shit happens. The problem with the top team being given the championship is that if 1 team is 5 games clear at the end with 3 rounds left, then interest is lost because nobody is interested.

I'm into entertainment rather than fairness, so I like the idea of finals.
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Old 01-05-2007, 04:25 AM   #3
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You have to have playoffs. Giving the team with the best regular season record the championship is retarded because teams could have started out bad to begin the season but then came together in the end and started playing very well, but it would be pointless because they screwed up a couple of games early.

This is a no brainer really.
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Old 01-05-2007, 05:13 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2C
The thing with Fitzroy happened during first WW, not WWII.
My bad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2C
Personally, I like the finals system because it creates excitement and you get the climatic ending to it all. Of course the best side doesn't always win, but the attitude is that it's all about playing well when it matters.
Fair call but I'm of the opinion that sport is already harsh and everything should be as fair as possible for everyone. By that, I mean everyone scheduled to play each other twice (or however many times) in the fixture, both at home and away, and that the best side SHOULD win what it deserves to win and not potentially lose it in a lottery game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2C
The problem with the top team being given the championship is that if 1 team is 5 games clear at the end with 3 rounds left, then interest is lost because nobody is interested.
True but by having someone dominate it should motivate the other sides underneath them to improve the following season to try and reach the standard set by that team. Instead they can sit there and lower their standards and go "ah fuck it, we're happy to finish 4th and just have a crack in the finals and try and knock them off." I just reckon it's poor form.

Also, for soccer interest is still maintained even if someone has run away with the title because teams underneath them are playing for a place in the Champions League or UEFA Cup or the Asian Cup or whatever the equivalent is in the different confederations.
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Old 01-05-2007, 06:02 AM   #5
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See, I can see why European soccer doesn't want to have 22 teams playing a whole season and then have 16 of them make the playoffs. The system in place is to have the best team be the champion, rather than the winner of a tournament. That being said, I think it is very unsatisfying to have no sort of championship game or playoff system. There are definite ways that it could work in the Premiership without ruining the integrity of the league champions. I don't know, I think it is good to have a final.
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Old 01-05-2007, 06:47 AM   #6
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To be honest though, the playoffs in the NFL are pretty much replicated in the cup competitions in football.

The Premiership is designed to find the best overall team over the course of a season while the FA cup (and the league cup) provides the straight knockout element that gives more teams a chance at winning.

That's why the FA cup final is after the leagues end, so that there is a final game to the year.

-edit-

So yeah, I like the football system the way it is. Although, I can see it wouldn't work as well for some other sports.
Last edited by diothoir; 01-05-2007 at 06:53 AM.
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Old 01-05-2007, 09:09 AM   #7
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Good points diothoir.

Do other sports here fixture their leagues so that everyone plays each other equally both at home and away? Cos here in the Aussie Rules some teams only play each other once during the season. Also the national football/soccer league has each team play each other 3 times.
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Old 01-05-2007, 01:27 PM   #8
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Playoffs is what it's all about. No sport is more exciting than NHL playoffs. It's when legends are made. Some players can be mediocre players, but come playoff time, they become great.

The goal of the regular season is to place in the playoffs where the best team will prevail. The best team in the regular season may not be the best overall team. You get off to a great start, win the first half of the season, then go into a losing streak yet still win the championshi? Rediculous.

There is no way that the Champion should be allowed to lose the last game they play.
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Old 01-05-2007, 01:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yianni
Good points diothoir.

Do other sports here fixture their leagues so that everyone plays each other equally both at home and away? Cos here in the Aussie Rules some teams only play each other once during the season. Also the national football/soccer league has each team play each other 3 times.
Most sports have some sort of Unbalance. The NFL has 32 teams yet only a 16 game season.
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Old 01-05-2007, 07:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yianni
Fair call but I'm of the opinion that sport is already harsh and everything should be as fair as possible for everyone. By that, I mean everyone scheduled to play each other twice (or however many times) in the fixture, both at home and away, and that the best side SHOULD win what it deserves to win and not potentially lose it in a lottery game.

True but by having someone dominate it should motivate the other sides underneath them to improve the following season to try and reach the standard set by that team. Instead they can sit there and lower their standards and go "ah fuck it, we're happy to finish 4th and just have a crack in the finals and try and knock them off." I just reckon it's poor form.

Also, for soccer interest is still maintained even if someone has run away with the title because teams underneath them are playing for a place in the Champions League or UEFA Cup or the Asian Cup or whatever the equivalent is in the different confederations..
Lots of sports don't have a situation where they can qualify for another competition by making a top 4 (or whatever position). Finals systems usually give the best team the easiest path to winning the championship, so if they are really that good then they should be able to win it anyways. Finals systems also show the importance of being able to beat the better teams vs having the better overall record.

Also, giving the championship to the top team is very harsh if the top 2 teams are equal on points at the end of the day, and the decision is made based on percentage, goals for/against, etc. You'd feel a bit pissed off if over the coarse of 6 months, the premiership is decided based on the fact that the other team scored 1 more goal than you. Especially if you dominated head-to-head against them during the season, or had the margin/result of some games earlier on in the season influenced based on injured players or whatever reason.
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Old 01-05-2007, 07:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yianni
Good points diothoir.

Do other sports here fixture their leagues so that everyone plays each other equally both at home and away? Cos here in the Aussie Rules some teams only play each other once during the season. Also the national football/soccer league has each team play each other 3 times.
The AFL will never be 100% even anyways, because of many reasons such as some clubs are given salary cup concessions, teams having to sell home games for survival and Powerhouse Victorian clubs getting preferrence over some venues compared to others.
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Old 01-06-2007, 02:43 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple A
You have to have playoffs. Giving the team with the best regular season record the championship is retarded because teams could have started out bad to begin the season but then came together in the end and started playing very well, but it would be pointless because they screwed up a couple of games early.

This is a no brainer really.
And by the same token a team that has played well all season can have a shit game and lose the final and the championship.
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Old 01-06-2007, 05:16 PM   #13
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Tough shit..that's what you call a choke.
Playoffs all the way.
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Old 01-06-2007, 06:01 PM   #14
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I don't know if this is true, but just based on the fact that the Premiership teams often get upset, I just get the impression that the FA Cup isn't regarded nearly as high as an American playoff championship or even the league title.
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Old 01-06-2007, 07:21 PM   #15
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Play-Offs are a terrible idea, you need some cup knockout games yes. But the main goal of the season should be to be the best team consistently over the season.
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Old 01-06-2007, 07:22 PM   #16
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And I suppose the crem de la crem so to speak of club football play in a type of play-offs in the form of the European Champions Leauge. ( top teams from different europeans countrys play in that alongside the regular domestic leauge season )
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Old 01-06-2007, 10:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogen
Play-Offs are a terrible idea, you need some cup knockout games yes. But the main goal of the season should be to be the best team consistently over the season.
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Old 01-07-2007, 02:23 AM   #18
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Playoffs? Don't talk about playoffs. PLAYOFFS?
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Old 01-07-2007, 06:24 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCWWF
I don't know if this is true, but just based on the fact that the Premiership teams often get upset, I just get the impression that the FA Cup isn't regarded nearly as high as an American playoff championship or even the league title.
Despite the way Neil Warnock and Sam Allardyce both demeaned it yesterday the FA Cup is a HUGE deal.

Anyway, I like things the way they are in football and I think adding a playoff element to the premiership would either lengthen or over intensify an already long and crammed season now, what with European football and two domestic knockout trophies.
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