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Old 01-24-2007, 12:05 AM   #1
the Illusionist
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Personas vs. Gimmicks

How many good gimmicks do they (WWE) actually have? Personas are way more well structured and solid, leaving room for development. Gimmicks are more one dimensional and are as is. For example, Undertaker is a gimmick; Edge is a persona. I'd say it's about time WWE starts working more on personas...rather than these sad, would be over wrestlers like Boogeyman and Eugene.
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Old 01-24-2007, 12:11 AM   #2
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They have, for the most part, phased them out as far as solo wrestlers go, but for some reason they give new tag teams "gimmicks." Boogeyman is an old guy, and probably would just blend into the roster and/or job out if he was a persona of Marty Wright. Jimmy Wang Yang kills me every time he talks. Conversely, Eugene's gimmick is stale, and he would probably get way over (not hard compared to now) if they dropped it. Same with Vito, although I don't know if anything can save him now. If used sparingly, gimmicks can still work, but for the most part are products of twenty years ago.
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Old 01-24-2007, 12:15 AM   #3
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I think a persona usually evolves from a gimmick.

For example, Kane. He was introduced as UT's long lost brother who survived a fire from his childhood that left him scarred. From that, he became an unforgiving monster out to destroy whoever was placed in front of him. He was ruthless and sinister, and those are personality traits evolving from a gimmick.
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Old 01-24-2007, 12:16 AM   #4
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For smackdown to really shine, they need to stop acting like such a fucking circus. Greasers, devils and royalty just make it so much more of a novelty act. WWE keeps trying to reclaim the 18-34 demographic...but they'll never do that as long as they have humor marks running around.
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Old 01-24-2007, 12:17 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrak
I think a persona usually evolves from a gimmick.

For example, Kane. He was introduced as UT's long lost brother who survived a fire from his childhood that left him scarred. From that, he became an unforgiving monster out to destroy whoever was placed in front of him. He was ruthless and sinister, and those are personality traits evolving from a gimmick.
huh. good point. but you got my distinction, right?i was just trying to differentiate the two.
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Old 01-24-2007, 01:23 AM   #6
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they need both

and it depends on who the wrestler is
 
Old 01-24-2007, 03:57 AM   #7
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Even after all these years, Undertaker is still ridiculously over with the crowds. People who haven't watched wrestling in years always ask me "is the Undertaker still in it?" when they overhear me in a wrestling conversation. Gimmicks may be "one dimensional," but the casual fan can remember them. A personality is alot harder to catch on. Someone without a gimmick--with just a "persona"--might look generic at first glance, and in this day and age of rampant "blue chippers" and "hosses," you desperately WANT to stand out.

I'd like to point out that "beer drinking redneck" would probably fall under the category of gimmick. You could argue that a "real American" who tells kids to take their vitamins and pray, and rips his shirt off all the time and "hulks up" when the chips are down isn't exactly a "persona." I sure as fuck don't know anybody like that in real life. Likewise, the cocky loudmouth that refers to himself in third person. These aren't personas. They're gimmicks, and they're memorable.

John Cena was over when he had a gimmick. People enjoyed the goofy rapping. Now that he's just some guy in camo who never loses, he's boring as fuck all. I know that's not the only thing wrong with Cena, but you can't tell me that it's not involved. Really, I'd love to see a solid list of over wrestlers with "personas." You mentioned Edge, but I still see Edge as being a top heel by necessity, and because of that shit with Lita. Randy Orton can barely stay anywhere near the top for any extended period of time.

It's not really that fucking hard to develop a gimmick the same way you'd develop a persona. I don't see why it has to be "Oh shit, a gimmick? This character will never change." People used to bitch quite a bit that TNA's X Division didn't have any distinction between the wrestlers--they're all just small guys that do spots. Yeah, they have their own looks and personalities, but somebody tuning in once or twice won't remember their individual personas. You can remember Abyss. He's the huge guy with the mask and the chain. You can remember Ron Killings. He's the black guy that does the crazy dances. You can even remember Christopher Daniels pretty well, with the robes and the hand signals and the Ihmotep look. Good luck remembering Austin Starr (or Austin Aries, or whatever he is now), or any member of ex-Team Canada outside of Petey Williams (and even then, he's only memorable if you've seen his finisher).

You can't say it's a matter of persona vs gimmick, because WWE's doing a shitty job with BOTH OF THEM. There's no reason to believe persona is better. I know, someone's gonna jump in here with "LOL BUT KIDS TODAY LIKE THE UFC AND REALISM AND SHIT." Okay. There's not alot of over "personas" in WWE, regardless. The ones that ARE pretty memorable have at least a little stake in a gimmick.
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Old 01-24-2007, 04:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedamndest
They have, for the most part, phased them out as far as solo wrestlers go, but for some reason they give new tag teams "gimmicks." Boogeyman is an old guy, and probably would just blend into the roster and/or job out if he was a persona of Marty Wright. Jimmy Wang Yang kills me every time he talks. Conversely, Eugene's gimmick is stale, and he would probably get way over (not hard compared to now) if they dropped it. Same with Vito, although I don't know if anything can save him now. If used sparingly, gimmicks can still work, but for the most part are products of twenty years ago.
someone needs to write that last line in bold letters to WWE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the Illusionist
For smackdown to really shine, they need to stop acting like such a fucking circus. Greasers, devils and royalty just make it so much more of a novelty act. WWE keeps trying to reclaim the 18-34 demographic...but they'll never do that as long as they have humor marks running around.
the same could be said for wrestling as a whole, but it really sticks out like a sore thumb in WWE.

For example, in retrospect, I think I like what Undertaker seemed like he was going to be when he showed up at Judgement Day 2000 and definitely on his last run as a heel feuding with the likes of Brock Lesnar and RVD, out for "respect" more than I like his return to the "Deadman" gimmick. And it's only because the way the Undertaker has been presented ever since seems stuck in 1993.

At least they're reducing his on-screen appearance to something "special" instead of having him on every show.

But yeah, the over-the-top gimmicks like Vito, Boogeyman, and the like... just suck nowadays.

Not saying that every persona is great (see: John Cena's current "Marine" incarnation -- as the throwback wearing, trash-talking heel, he was classic), but the difference between Rated RKO and the Boogeyman is like miles apart.

JBL actually became much more entertaining (though his ringwork still sucked) as "JBL" than he ever was in any other incarnation he had in WWE.

I really thought, that when the likes of Randy Orton, John Cena, and others initially debuted in WWE, that the program was sort of moving toward a "WCW"-like old school revival.
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Old 01-24-2007, 09:55 AM   #9
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Old 01-24-2007, 02:57 PM   #10
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Main event: Personas
Midcard: Personas in development
Lower midcard: Gimmicks

It's really always been that way. Even in the almighty attitude era everyone wants back the midcard was Val Venis the pornstar, Godfather the pimp, Big Bossman, Sexual Chocolate, RTC and all that stuff.
It's all filler and entertainment, its the main eventers in training (IC division), the entire main event scene (all personas) and a tag team division with a mix of persona and gimmick teams that works the best.
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Old 01-24-2007, 03:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight

I just ejaculated. Even though that is a man.

Last edited by Stickman; 01-24-2007 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 01-24-2007, 03:44 PM   #12
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I am convinced bro.
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Old 01-24-2007, 06:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
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I just ejaculated. Even though that is a man.
Is it really, or are you just being Rhiannon?
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Old 01-24-2007, 07:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Is it really, or are you just being Rhiannon?
The latter
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Old 01-24-2007, 07:11 PM   #15
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Kinda thought so, but she actually does look a little...Well.

I just did a random google search on "boobs."
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Old 01-24-2007, 07:12 PM   #16
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On the topic, the difference is semantic.
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Old 01-24-2007, 07:13 PM   #17
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Now, to save this topic:

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Old 01-24-2007, 08:22 PM   #18
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He's back, and this time he's concentrating on gold!
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Old 01-24-2007, 08:37 PM   #19
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Old 01-24-2007, 08:58 PM   #20
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Mozzeltoff!

I spelled it wrong.
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Old 01-25-2007, 12:53 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Now, to save this topic:

idiots like you kill the topic. cant keep to a simple, casual discussion then post your shit somewhere else.
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Old 01-25-2007, 06:20 AM   #22
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I already ruined Christmas for the original topic. KK has the right idea.
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Old 01-25-2007, 12:11 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the Illusionist
idiots like you kill the topic. cant keep to a simple, casual discussion then post your shit somewhere else.
If it's so casual, why do you get so anal about people being off topic?
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Old 01-25-2007, 12:13 PM   #24
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I don't have a Hitler obsessions, BTW. Just wanted to post something, and Mel Brooks came to mind.,
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Old 01-25-2007, 12:14 PM   #25
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Old 01-25-2007, 06:59 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
If it's so casual, why do you get so anal about people being off topic?
the discussion's nature about the TOPIC is casual. if it's assholes like you who have nothing worth value except stupid random shit and thin you're funny, well then you're just fucking useless.not even addding script doesnt add to the conversation either.
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Old 01-25-2007, 07:04 PM   #27
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What is everyone's favourite type of cheese?
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Old 01-25-2007, 07:27 PM   #28
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fuck you.
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Old 01-25-2007, 07:50 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the Illusionist
the discussion's nature about the TOPIC is casual. if it's assholes like you who have nothing worth value except stupid random shit and thin you're funny, well then you're just fucking useless.not even addding script doesnt add to the conversation either.


Translation: WAAAAAAAA! ME NO SPEAK ENGRISH WAAAAAAA!
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Old 01-26-2007, 05:59 AM   #30
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Swiss... or good ol' American.


Because I am Swiss American.







OHYEAH
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Old 01-26-2007, 09:15 AM   #31
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Does that mean you're processed and nasty with holes in you at random intervals?
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Old 01-27-2007, 10:58 AM   #32
.44 Magdalene
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.44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
HELLSYEAH
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Old 01-27-2007, 11:00 AM   #33
Kane Knight
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Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Sweet.
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Old 01-27-2007, 11:10 AM   #34
.44 Magdalene
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.44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
Prior to me posting this exact post, my post count was 969.


THAT'S LIKE AN ORGY, RITE?

















AAHYEAH
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Old 01-27-2007, 11:43 AM   #35
Kane Knight
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Mine was 96,969 a while back.
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Old 01-27-2007, 11:49 AM   #36
.44 Magdalene
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.44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
That's a HUGE FUCKIN' ORGY


OHYEAH HELLSYEAH AAAAAAAHYEAH
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Old 01-27-2007, 11:58 AM   #37
Kane Knight
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Old 01-27-2007, 12:03 PM   #38
.44 Magdalene
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.44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+).44 Magdalene puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
This topic is ruined.


Time for everybody to join my online RPG.
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Old 01-27-2007, 02:19 PM   #39
Kane Knight
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What RPG?
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Old 01-27-2007, 02:30 PM   #40
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The Ravishing One puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)The Ravishing One puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)The Ravishing One puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)The Ravishing One puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)The Ravishing One puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)The Ravishing One puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)The Ravishing One puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)The Ravishing One puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)The Ravishing One puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
lol @ this thread.
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