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Old 01-31-2007, 11:04 AM   #1
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Exclamation Defining "old school" Hip Hop..
This was brought up the other day on here and me and my buddy where talking about it in real life..

What is your definition of "oldskool"??

I realize, that all shit from the 80's will be considered.. Shit like RUN DMC, Beasties, LL Cool J, Herbie Handcock, Afrika Bambata, Fab Five Freddy, Trecherous Three, Eric B and Rakim, Slick Rick The Ruler, The Diabolical Biz Markie, Grand Master Flash and the Furious Five, Public Ememy, Boogie Down Productions, Soul Sonic Force, etc, etc, etc..

But what about early 90's shit?? The Chronic, Enter the 36 Chambers of Shaolin, Illmatic, SoutherPlayalisticCaddilacFunkyMusic, Ready to Die, bakdafukup, The Infamous Modd Deep, etc..

I mean, these can't be considered new, as they all came out like 14 years ago..

So, my question again "What is your definition of oldskool??"..

Is it a time frame of when it was released?? Like a car, once an album passes a certain age, is it then cansidered "oldskool"??

Or, is it just the sound of it?? Only oldskool breaks and simplistic lyrics may apply??

I mean, if the latter is the case, shit like Jurassic 5 could be considered "oldskool" because they have that sound and all around vibe..

I dunno, personnally, I consider shit like Illmatic and the first rotation Wu cd's to be oldskool.. They came out when I was in Jr High and I grew up with them.. They are almost 15 years old..

So, discuss..







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Old 01-31-2007, 11:08 AM   #2
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I also think the pennicle of Hip Hop was '93-'94.. Some of the G.O.A.T. were released those years.. The style of Hip Hop changed all around..

p.s. Also, you must think about NWA.. They didn't make it big until the early 90's and they are widely accepted as being "oldskool"..
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Old 01-31-2007, 11:31 AM   #3
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Anything before gangsta rap hit mainstream.
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Old 01-31-2007, 01:03 PM   #4
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So shit like NWA or Geto Boys aren't oldskool??

Listen to Express Yourself or Assasins..
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Old 01-31-2007, 01:21 PM   #5
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well NWA was out in the 80s and gangsta rap hit mainstream in 92 I believe
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Old 01-31-2007, 01:24 PM   #6
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Straight Outta Compton came out in '89.. It was the first "mainstream" "Gangsta Rap" album..

Your definition is null and void..
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Old 01-31-2007, 01:29 PM   #7
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Public Enemy's Fear of a Black Planet came out in 1990, after "Gangsta Rap" hit the mainstream..

Is it not "oldskool"??
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Old 01-31-2007, 01:40 PM   #8
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gangsta rap did not become mainstream until the 90s either 91 or 92. And by mainstream I don't mean a few people made gangsta rap CDS.
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Old 01-31-2007, 01:41 PM   #9
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Floresent clothes and walking around with a boom box on your shoulder.
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Old 01-31-2007, 01:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savior
gangsta rap did not become mainstream until the 90s either 91 or 92. And by mainstream I don't mean a few people made gangsta rap CDS.
As I already said, "Straight Outta Compton" was the first mainstream rap album.. "Straight Outta Compton" and "Express Yourself" were both played on MTV.. That album went platinum..

Pretty f'n mainstream right there..
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Old 01-31-2007, 01:56 PM   #11
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I think the old school beats and simplistic lyrics are 'old school' in terms of an old school style, but Wu Tang's early stuff, Onyx, early Outkast, etc. is what I would consider new old school, not in terms of only the timeframe, but how they started changing rap.
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Old 01-31-2007, 02:12 PM   #12
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Yeah, 93-94 was kinda the turn from the more disco breaks to a much more grimey sound..

That is around the time I went from mostly grunge/metal to mostly Hip Hop.. I always listened to rap.. I still have Raising Hell on vinel, but back then was mostly into rock.. I remeber hearing "1 800 Suicide" by Gravediggaz on the Demon Night soundtrack.. That led me to Wu Tang.. Also, Anthrax was one of my favorite bands around that time and their shit with PE was outstanding.. As was Onxy/Biohazard.. I guess the sound turned more into a more hardcore "Metal" sound around that time..

Blame that for my love of Hip Hop today..
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Old 01-31-2007, 02:22 PM   #13
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I think anything really before Tupac came about (around '92) was considered old school. I think Tupac and people like Busta Rhymes, Biggie, Mobb Deep, and the Wu-Tang Clan are examples of the "Gangsta Rap" era. I really do think that hip hop is broken down into eras. Those being:

-Renaissance (Afrikka Bamba...Zu Lu Nation, those type)
-Old Skool (KRS-One, LL Cool J, Run DMC, Public Enemy, Beastie Boys, Rakim, N.W.A.)
-Gangsta Rap (Nas, Tupac, Biggie, Jay-Z, DMX, Busta, Ice Cube)
-Pop/Nu Skool Rap (Nelly, 50 Cent, Common, etc)
-Regional Rap (Dirty Souf, Up North/East, West, Midwest, etc.) I give this example because rap today has so many outlets to it. Before, it WAS different, but blended in more IMO than today's rap. People classify by regions now.

Yea...something like that.
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Old 01-31-2007, 03:22 PM   #14
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Good points but, Busta Rhymes was with Tribe Called Quest back in the day.. I mean, he's on "Scenario" and that came out in '91..
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Old 01-31-2007, 07:03 PM   #15
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My feeling is that the "old school" is something that progresses with time like anything else in the world.

Classic rock is another example. When I was growing up, on the "oldies" stations, all I would hear was stuff from the 50s and 60s, basically. Elvis Presley, Beach Boys, Jefferson Airplane, The Doors, etc. Now, 20 years later, that stuff is all still on the "classic rock" stations but so is stuff like Van Halen, The Clash, Rush, and I've even heard Guns N' Roses and Nirvana on classic rock stations.

I guess to be considered "old school" your style of music has to come and go, and be gone for some time. The Run DMC/Grandmaster Flash old school style gave way to gangsta rap, which gave way to the more materialistic mainstream rap we see nowadays. "Old school" isn't really a defined genre, it changes with the time and trends in music.

It really depends on how you look at it though. If you were to clearly define "old school" or "classic rock," you'd have to look at the initial artists, that first sort of "era" of the genre. Your Afrika Bambaataa's, Run DMC's, Public Enemy, etc.
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Old 01-31-2007, 07:11 PM   #16
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I guess I didn't really give a definitive answer, just 2 ways of looking at it.

I'd say the second point I made is how it should be looked at. The first way I described it is how the mainstream media looks at it. It's those first artists, the pioneers who basically created the genre who should be looked at as "old school." All those who followed were part of a different movement. There's a reason why it was called "Gangsta rap" and not just "rap." It was a different style, a different variation on a pre-existing genre. Punk rock is still rock, but it's a variant.

The new styles and artists can be equally as influential, important and popular, or perhaps even more so, but they weren't the first, they didn't create the genre, hence they are not what you would call "old school."
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Old 01-31-2007, 07:35 PM   #17
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The people who actually created the genre get no credit..
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Old 01-31-2007, 07:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus
As I already said, "Straight Outta Compton" was the first mainstream rap album.. "Straight Outta Compton" and "Express Yourself" were both played on MTV.. That album went platinum..

Pretty f'n mainstream right there..
Every video played on MTV is not main stream. D-12s Purple Hills was played on MTV and I'm sure if you asked people if they heard about it more then 60% would say no.

So if you asked people if they heard of gangsta rap in 89 more then 60% would say no. WHY? Because although they might have got some play on MTV they didn't get any radio play. (atleast where I lived)
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Old 01-31-2007, 08:03 PM   #19
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What are you talking about? That song was huge. It may have even been number one on TRL.
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Old 01-31-2007, 08:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savior
Anything before gangsta rap hit mainstream.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus
So shit like NWA or Geto Boys aren't oldskool??

Listen to Express Yourself or Assasins..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus
Straight Outta Compton came out in '89.. It was the first "mainstream" "Gangsta Rap" album..

Your definition is null and void..
Your Arguement is null and void
Last edited by Savio; 01-31-2007 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 01-31-2007, 08:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeRazor
What are you talking about? That song was huge. It may have even been number one on TRL.
I think it was 3. but It was not main stream.

(BTW my definition of main stream is if you ask a bunch of people about something 80% will know what your talking about)
Last edited by Savio; 01-31-2007 at 08:26 PM.
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Old 01-31-2007, 08:21 PM   #22
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Eminem was involved. It was mainstream.
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Old 01-31-2007, 08:44 PM   #23
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Old 01-31-2007, 08:54 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeRazor
Eminem was involved. It was mainstream.
agree to disagree.
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Old 01-31-2007, 10:41 PM   #25
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Kinda find myself agreeing with JV. Other than a few discrepancies (like the aformentioned Busta thing), he is pretty much spot on.
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Old 01-31-2007, 11:20 PM   #26
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Traditionally:

anything before 1986 is called "Old School"
from 1986 to about 1992 = "New (or True) School"

and 1992-Present just is.

Though, judging by the intent of this post and its replies...
albums recorded earlier than 1996 might as well be considered "Old School".
To some people, albums recorded prior to 2000 are considered "Old School", but I can't really see that.

There's usually some artist at the dividing line of a stylistic era.
The borderline between the original Old and New Schools was Rakim.
Then again, when the class that birthed Nas and the like came of age, it was another turning point.

Since then, even though the music has progressed (and a lot of cases, regressed IMO) over the years, I can't quite find that one person that changed it for everyone.

The biggest events of the last 10 or so years in the genre has been moreso the deaths of significant figures (BIG, 2Pac) than anyone's entrance.

I also agree with Savior's assertion that "Gangsta Rap" as a genre didn't quite become permeated into the "mainstream" until after Dr. Dre's The Chronic.

NWA was very popular before then (and spawned a lot of other acts and even more imitators), but they were like very popular "contraband" in a genre that was very "contraband" to begin with.

It wasn't until after The Chronic did people even start talking about that type of rap music being "Gangsta", as hordes of imitators and those influenced by the album came about started coming out and selling records.

It really didn't become "mainstream" until pop rap became that type of music.

In the '80s and early '90s, "mainstream" defined the pop rap that was clean enough to be played on the radio unaltered, and found its way out of niche markets. That kind of music was generally regarded in a derisive manner from some of its more "edgy" acts like Ice Cube, Public Enemy, and even EPMD.

However, gradually as the years went by, more "explicit" and edgy music became the default to the genre, as it was the highest grossing, despite its content. A lot of this is what people label "Gangsta Rap".

This is why Eminem and 50 Cent correspond more closely to Vanilla Ice and Hammer in terms of market position (definitely not stylistically). In 1989-1990, Eminem and 50 Cent would be kept out of the "mainstream" spotlight due to their content. Also, why a Jay-Z is one of the more recognized faces in the genre.

Whoops... went off on a tangent.
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Old 01-31-2007, 11:42 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savior
I think it was 3. but It was not main stream.

(BTW my definition of main stream is if you ask a bunch of people about something 80% will know what your talking about)
I don't give a fuck what your defintion is, if a video is played on TRL, it's mainstream..

If a million people buy an album, it's mainstream.. "Straight Outta Compton" went platinum..
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Old 01-31-2007, 11:44 PM   #28
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Oh, and I was eight years old when that album first came out..

If I remember the videos, it was f'n mainstream..
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Old 02-01-2007, 09:44 AM   #29
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Obie trice went platnuim too. He is not mainstream.
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Old 02-01-2007, 09:44 AM   #30
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ANYWAY YOUR ORIGINAL ARGUEMENT IS VOID SINCE NWA HAD OTHER CDS BEFORE STRAIGHT OUT COMPTON.
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Old 02-02-2007, 10:18 AM   #31
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Obie Trice is pretty mainstream, though. I know this because I know a bunch of chickenhead white girls who don't know dick about hip hop who love him.
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Old 02-02-2007, 11:20 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savior
ANYWAY YOUR ORIGINAL ARGUEMENT IS VOID SINCE NWA HAD OTHER CDS BEFORE STRAIGHT OUT COMPTON.
HOW IS IT NULL AND VOID WHEN YOU WERE THE ONE WHO SAID "ANYTHING BEFORE GANGSTA RAP WENT MAINSTREAM" AND THAT WAS THE ALBUM THAT MADE IT MAINSTREAM?!?!?
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Old 02-02-2007, 11:41 AM   #33
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"NWA and the posse" was realeased before "Straight outta compton".
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Old 02-02-2007, 01:28 PM   #34
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Yes, so by your definition, that album is oldskool, while anything after "Straight Outta Compton", isn't..
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Old 02-02-2007, 01:29 PM   #35
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How does that effect what I said in any way shape or form??
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Old 02-02-2007, 06:33 PM   #36
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refer to post 20
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Old 02-03-2007, 01:56 AM   #37
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Old 02-03-2007, 03:26 AM   #38
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Anything that came out before 97-98 imo.
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Old 02-04-2007, 03:57 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savior
refer to post 20
I still don't "get" what you are arguing??

You said that "anything after gangster rap went mainstream" isn't oldskool.. I then said that Straight Outta Compton came out in 1989, making your argument more retarded because alot of albums, that are considered oldskool, came out that same year and later than that..

What are you arguing??

That Straight Outta Compton isn't old skool??
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Old 02-04-2007, 04:05 PM   #40
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If you are still on the "anything after gangsta rap went mainstream" shit, here is a list of albums that came out after Straight Outta Compton:

Public Enemy-Fear of a Black Planet
Beastie Boys-Paul's Boutique
MC Hammer-Please Hammer Don't Hurt Em (which had "Can't Touch This)
Slick Rick-The Adventures of Slick Rick (fist solo album)
De La Soul-3 Feet High and Rising (first album)
Tribe Called Quest-People's Instinctive Travels and Paths of Rhythem (first album)
Digital Underground-Sex Packets (first album)
Vanilla Ice-To the Extreme

This all happened a year after the FBI investigated NWA for the single "Fuck the Police"..

Also, "Yo Mtv Raps" with host Fab Five Freddy debuted in '89... It was also the first year they gave out a Grammy for Best Rap Album..

Tell me that isn't oldskool...

*edit* I could add to that list all day..
Last edited by Kris P Lettus; 02-04-2007 at 04:10 PM.
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