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Old 03-08-2007, 05:45 AM   #1
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A Wrestler Who Can Literally Control the Crowd
I was watching some Eddie Guerrero videos and then thinking about some recent things I've said about The Rock. And I realized (or maybe re-realized) that Eddie was the last WWE superstar would could really--and I mean REALLY--get the audience to just eat out his hand and react in whatever way he wanted.

Now, The Rock had that same electricity as well, and to an even bigger degree. Certainly, he wasn't perfect all the time, but in terms of fan control and reaction, The Rock was probably the best, and the only person who could rival his reach was Hulk Hogan (to be honest Hogan probably controlled the crowd even better than The Rock, but I hate Hogan, so yeah...).

Anyway, after The Rock went to Hollywood, I think the mantle of "super hot superstar" actually fell on Eddie's shoulders. Now, he didn't have the mainstream exposure that Rocky had, and his pops weren't quite as severe. However, compared to everyone else, they were leagues above the norm.

I remember when Eddie came out with Rey's bloodied mask and cut a wordless promo. It was all facial expressions and body language. And he got ENORMOUS heat. I remember being in disbelief at how Eddie had the audience completely at his control, hating his guts, and he didn't even have to say a word.

But he was equally effective as a face, getting the crowd to chant his name very often and getting massive pops with his "lie, cheat, and steal" character.

Not a lot of people can pull that off. I mean, when's the last time we've had the audience enthusiastically and unitedly chant a wrestler's name? CM Punk at Survivor Series? But does that even compare to the chants Rock and Eddie got?

I don't really think so.



I've long maintained that the WWE really started to go the bollucks when Eddie died, because that triggered an avalanche of effects that killed SD's main event for half a year, forced transfers from RAW, led to scenarios that got some workers unhappy, and is still being felt today in the form of overpushed main eventers who've been rushed to fill the main event void created by the domino effect of the changes that happened last year.

Call it bias, fandom, or whatever, but Eddie held the WWE together. Even though the company was well into a down period, he was the one guy who could be counted on to sell seats (this especially with the Hispanic appeal). He was the closest thing to a mainstream superstar the company had.



Anyway, the point of all of that is that the WWE's high turns have pretty much always coincided with the emergence of a central character with that "it" factor who could command the presence of the crowd. A character who made you want to tune in, even if the rest of the show sucked. With Eddie, the rest of the show kinda did suck. With some of the others (Rock, Austin), the rest of the show seemed to benefit from the high created by the main players, and the show enthusiasm infected everyone, who worked harder to put on a better show.

I don't think the WWE will truly go back on an upswing until they find a wrestler who can be like a Rock or Austin or Hogan or Eddie, and not shove him down our throats.

So I guess the discussion question is whether you see that happening anytime soon. The catch is that while there are people who can fit that category (Cena pre-supermanification and arguably CM Punk), we have to also account for the shoving-down-our-throats aspect of booking that the WWE seems to love to do, especially lately, because they're so desperate to create that new star who can command people's attention.



And if that discussion doesn't work (I don't think I've been very coherent in this post compared to my usual ones; I'm kinda rambly, most likely because it's late), then consider this an Eddie Guerrero appreciation thread.

Seriously. Who's the last wrestler who routinely had the crowd doing whatever he wanted and literally buzzing with excitement? It was Eddie.

These days, the closest we have is The Undertaker. Or Triple H, I suppose.
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Old 03-08-2007, 08:52 AM   #2
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HHH can easily get the audience to go to sleep on command. All he needs is a mic, folding chair, and 20 minutes in the ring by himself.
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Old 03-08-2007, 09:11 AM   #3
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Chris Masters is the future. Trust me, he wants the audience to be silent.
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Old 03-08-2007, 09:57 AM   #4
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Taker can control the lights. I'm not entirely sure about the crowd though. I mean, if you were a member of the undead with supernatural powers, wouldn't you just get some 300-pound man in to flatten your opponent and spray mustard all over him?
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:00 AM   #5
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You want to sit there and talk about controlling the crowd? Take a look no futher then the Greatest Intercontinental Champion of all-time brother. Day after day, night after night, week after week, HTM and the Mouth had those wrassling jokers by the tip of our fingers.

Heat followed HTM all over the arena man. I remember one time back in 87, I had a guy try to run in and attack Honky with my own guitar. I had to be escorted out of arenas most nights by my own personal security. It was no joke back in the 80's son. It was real. It was hard being the greatest hell of all-time man.
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:07 PM   #6
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This pretending to be someone is an old played out trick. Stop now before it gets really annoying...
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
This pretending to be someone is an old played out trick. Stop now before it gets really annoying...
Was the Honky Tonk Man like that then? I am glad I didn't see him week in week out.
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:14 PM   #8
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What about HBK? I think he controls the crowd more than the Undertaker at least. Look at Raw on Monday. Tremendous face pops and heel heat all in the same show.
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:15 PM   #9
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As for the next guy who could have the crowd eating out of the palm of their hands, I would say the only person who has that "it" thing going for them right now is Punk...but I have little to no faith in WWE's ability to book him properly. And I've said it before, and I will say it again; ECW's only hope to become a stand alone brand is if they run with a sXe Punk vs. stoner RVD angle with both of them playing tweeners and allow that to become their main focus. But my problem with Punk is he is decent on the stick, but can't take control the way you need to in order to play on the main event scene for the big boys...
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold HamNegger
What about HBK? I think he controls the crowd more than the Undertaker at least. Look at Raw on Monday. Tremendous face pops and heel heat all in the same show.
I was assuming we were only talking about up and comers...Michaels has had the ability to get the audience to do whatever he wants for years...
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corkscrewed
Seriously. Who's the last wrestler who routinely had the crowd doing whatever he wanted and literally buzzing with excitement? It was Eddie.

These days, the closest we have is The Undertaker. Or Triple H, I suppose.
I don't really get "up and comer" from this, sorry. He wasn't mentioned by anyone, so I thought I would.
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:37 PM   #12
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Yeah you're right. I somehow got that in my head, but it was never said anywhere. As far as crowd control I think the three best people WWE has right now are HHH, HBK and uh...nevermind I guess it's really only two.
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:38 PM   #13
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Honky Tonk Man does not have that much rep yet (10+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
This pretending to be someone is an old played out trick. Stop now before it gets really annoying...
I bet you pretend to be the Honky Tonk Man every day guy. Actually, let me rephrase that. You wish you were the greatest Intercontinental Champion of all-time buddy. Maybe I'll let you lace up a pair of my boots one day just to get a little taste.
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
Yeah you're right. I somehow got that in my head, but it was never said anywhere. As far as crowd control I think the three best people WWE has right now are HHH, HBK and uh...nevermind I guess it's really only two.
How about guys that are close, who would you put in that category? There's some strong heels like Edge and Booker T, but their characters aren't really made thus far to have that face/heel flexibility that one would need to have the "crowd eating out of the palm of their hand." Obviously I think Cena is so close it's sickening. Wish they'd let him be more flexible with his character and not so 100% vanilla baby face all the time. If done the right way (and if done at all), the Cena heel turn could be the most memorable in years. I'd like to see him become more of a loose cannon and really fuck with the crowd's emotions.
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:58 PM   #15
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I could do it easy. To bad I went into accounting instead of wrestling. I'm pretty sure if they give Sugar Shane Helms a real chance he could.
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Old 03-08-2007, 02:19 PM   #16
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HBK totally slipped my mind last night, but yeah, he's another good crowd commander.

But yeah, these guys have all been around for a while. With Taker, a lot of the pops are nostalgia pops. Same with HBK, I think. With Trips, it's a little bit of nostalgia and legit heat (in most cases).

Still, these days, none of those three routinely gets overwhelming pop/heat from the audience. HBK is still "one half of DX" and even Taker's deadman gimmick has lost a good part of its original comeback novelty.
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Old 03-08-2007, 02:52 PM   #17
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If HBK wanted to he could. He seems to be holding (or held) back
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Old 03-08-2007, 03:34 PM   #18
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The John Cena/HBK program would be so fucking hot right now if they didn't do this buddy buddy DX bullshit. Its not hard. Have HBK break Cena's jaw with his foot and let him be the heel that made me care about Hogan/Michaels at SummerSlam 05.
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Old 03-08-2007, 03:53 PM   #19
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Perhaps I should blow your Honky Tonk cover, HTM.
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Old 03-08-2007, 04:02 PM   #20
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With so much emphasis on HBK being the one to turn on Cena, I would be willing to bet my house (if I owned one) that Cena will be the one to turn. I would LOVE to see HBK win the title at Mania and have HHH come to the ring to celebrate with him. Then have Cena snap and take out both of them with a steel chair. The heat on him bloodying an injured HHH would be incredible! Have Flair come out to the ring to make the save, but also get beaten to a bloody pulp.

Cena could then cut a promo saying "he's tired of Dinosaurs taking up his spotlight. He was the champ, yet DX get's most of the attention on Raw. He was the champ, yet all he see's are DX signs. He's the champ, but he's not even headlining Wrestlemania...an over the hill Undertaker is. I'm the future of this business and I guess to get the spotlight, I'm gonna have to make the dinosaurs extinct!"

He then goes on to pound HBK, HHH and Flair some more. Then later, during the Main Event...you could possibly have Cena interfere and cost Undertaker the Title. Have a stare down between him an Batista, only to have them smile and shake hands...then proceed to beat Undertaker to a bloody pulp. You could have both Cena and Batista turn heel to close out Mania.
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Old 03-08-2007, 04:02 PM   #21
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Is the Honky Tonk Man wearing Blue Suede Socks?
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Old 03-08-2007, 05:39 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk Man
I bet you pretend to be the Honky Tonk Man every day guy. Actually, let me rephrase that. You wish you were the greatest Intercontinental Champion of all-time buddy. Maybe I'll let you lace up a pair of my boots one day just to get a little taste.
Actually I wrestled HTM at an indie show in Colorado. To be honest he was the biggest dick I've ever met. Literally, the WORST performer I have ever performed with...he was supposed to do three shows with the company, they paid him for the one he did do, and never called him again. Honky Tonk Man is a bitch, a whinning little shit, and someone who had moderate success that he allowed to go straight to his already oversided head. In conclusion, of all the people you could have pretended to be, you chose one of the worst. Please quit being an annoying sock, quit pretending to be someone you're not, and accept that no one here is dumb enough to believe you really are HTM.

You lose! Good day sir!
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Old 03-08-2007, 06:41 PM   #23
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Midsouth did a show here about a year ago and advertised the Honky Tonk Man, and he didn't show up. I doubt it was just them bullshitting, since they did manage to ring in Jake "The Snake" Roberts a while before that.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.
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Old 03-08-2007, 08:19 PM   #24
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CM Punk and Mr. Kennedy are two guys who I think will be able to do it soon. Christian Cage is another guy worth mentioning, I think.
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Old 03-08-2007, 09:43 PM   #25
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Edge is certainly one I'd put in there. I was watching a video of RAW, the night after Unforgiven in Montreal. The crowd was booing Cena like crazy, then Edge came out and got a huge ovation. The only "face" pops that Cena got were the cheap pops like "right here tonight" and stuff.

Then Edge got the crowd to do JUST what he wanted (or what Vince wanted them to do).

Edge: "You seem to think that I have some overwhelming desire to win my title back in Canada."

Cena: "You hear all these people? I guess that's what THEY want."

Edge: Here's a little news flash: This isn't Canada. *Confused murmers* This is the cheese-eating, wine-sniffing inbred cousin of Canada, MONTREAL!"

And just like that, Edge was a certifiable asshole heel in everyones eyes, leaving them no choice but to cheer the alleged face John Cena.
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:46 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold HamNegger
With so much emphasis on HBK being the one to turn on Cena, I would be willing to bet my house (if I owned one) that Cena will be the one to turn. I would LOVE to see HBK win the title at Mania and have HHH come to the ring to celebrate with him. Then have Cena snap and take out both of them with a steel chair. The heat on him bloodying an injured HHH would be incredible! Have Flair come out to the ring to make the save, but also get beaten to a bloody pulp.

Cena could then cut a promo saying "he's tired of Dinosaurs taking up his spotlight. He was the champ, yet DX get's most of the attention on Raw. He was the champ, yet all he see's are DX signs. He's the champ, but he's not even headlining Wrestlemania...an over the hill Undertaker is. I'm the future of this business and I guess to get the spotlight, I'm gonna have to make the dinosaurs extinct!"

He then goes on to pound HBK, HHH and Flair some more. Then later, during the Main Event...you could possibly have Cena interfere and cost Undertaker the Title. Have a stare down between him an Batista, only to have them smile and shake hands...then proceed to beat Undertaker to a bloody pulp. You could have both Cena and Batista turn heel to close out Mania.

I will be very excited to see this if it ever happens.
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:54 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Evolution
Edge is certainly one I'd put in there. I was watching a video of RAW, the night after Unforgiven in Montreal. The crowd was booing Cena like crazy, then Edge came out and got a huge ovation. The only "face" pops that Cena got were the cheap pops like "right here tonight" and stuff.

Then Edge got the crowd to do JUST what he wanted (or what Vince wanted them to do).

Edge: "You seem to think that I have some overwhelming desire to win my title back in Canada."

Cena: "You hear all these people? I guess that's what THEY want."

Edge: Here's a little news flash: This isn't Canada. *Confused murmers* This is the cheese-eating, wine-sniffing inbred cousin of Canada, MONTREAL!"

And just like that, Edge was a certifiable asshole heel in everyones eyes, leaving them no choice but to cheer the alleged face John Cena.

Yes, Edge is an amazing heel. He's got that quality that HHH has and The Rock had in 98, where they can control a crowd so well and garner huge heat, that is really restrained cheers hidden as boos.

When a performer is that entertaining on the stick, even if they're a heel they are a wrestler that the fans "love to hate" so to speak.
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Old 03-09-2007, 04:52 AM   #28
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Ya know, you're right about Edge. It's just that aside from Montreal, he hasn't been sarcastic E+C Edge for a long time, and that was by far his best character. So I forgot about him.
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Old 03-11-2007, 04:44 AM   #29
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well theres the obvious of the past....jake the snake roberts
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Old 03-11-2007, 05:12 AM   #30
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^

He's gonna be in at an Indy Show in Orangeburg on April 14. There's only about 4 wrestlers alive today that I'd actually go markish over meeting: Jake, Arn Anderson, Harley Race, and Bret Hart.

As far as the thread goes, Definitely Edge.
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Old 03-11-2007, 08:25 AM   #31
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Edge is a great heel, but I'm not sure if that is the greatest example. It seems like cheap heat to me. :P

But some say any heat is good heat!
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Old 03-11-2007, 08:49 AM   #32
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Nah he's pretty damn good at cutting promos without relying on only cheap heat.
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Old 03-11-2007, 02:56 PM   #33
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I haven't watched smackdown regularly since he died. So I guess he was the reason I kept watching it
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