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Old 05-28-2007, 12:32 AM   #1
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What do people think of this PAC kid?
Here is a link to his match against Roderick Strong at the Fifth Year Festival for Strong's FIP Heavyweight Championship. Ironically he and Strong are now PWG Tag Team Champions.

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance...c-fip-title-ma

I've seen him compared to both Jack Evans and Paul London. I think the Paul London comparison is more accurate. He does some pretty cool twisting stuff, but there is a lot of substance to his matches, as well. He has a similar build to London, as well, and his movements are pretty similar. There are moments during the match that I could have sworn I was watching one of Paul London's ROH matches (mainly just little moments where PAC gets the feet up on a corner charge). I guess their execution and presence are similar.

Anyway, as one of the hottest new commodities on the independent wrestling scene, I think a discussion of him would be pretty cool. What does everyone think of PAC?

Pfft
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Old 05-28-2007, 12:39 AM   #2
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Pac Heat
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Old 05-28-2007, 01:21 AM   #3
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I prefer X-Pac
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Old 05-28-2007, 01:33 AM   #4
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What, this guy?



Well, he'll have a better moveset than Cena...
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Old 05-28-2007, 02:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthTedious
What, this guy?



Well, he'll have a better moveset than Cena...
Finishing Move: Taking a pill and eating his opponent.
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Old 05-28-2007, 03:42 AM   #6
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Actually he's one of my favourite up and comers (or new guys). Haven't seen a shitload of his work but I've seen enough of him that I can definetly say that I like him. If the rumours of the WWE looking to make a brand in the UK are true I hope he does get picked up.
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Old 05-28-2007, 07:50 AM   #7
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I saw him at a 1PW event early last year, I was impressed then, and he continues to impress me now.
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Old 05-28-2007, 08:26 AM   #8
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X-Pac would kick his ass.
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Old 05-28-2007, 10:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthTedious
What, this guy?



Well, he'll have a better moveset than Cena...
He'll wind up jobbing when Cena dresses up as a ghost.
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Old 05-28-2007, 10:52 AM   #10
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I saw him in a dark match at the ROH PPV in the tag scramble, he got trown around like a doll, he looks like Trent Reznor.
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Old 05-28-2007, 10:58 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
Here is a link to his match against Roderick Strong at the Fifth Year Festival for Strong's FIP Heavyweight Championship. Ironically he and Strong are now PWG Tag Team Champions.
That's not ironic.
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Old 05-28-2007, 11:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impact!
Actually he's one of my favourite up and comers (or new guys). Haven't seen a shitload of his work but I've seen enough of him that I can definetly say that I like him. If the rumours of the WWE looking to make a brand in the UK are true I hope he does get picked up.
He won't.
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Old 05-28-2007, 11:07 AM   #13
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Oh I know that. It was really just a nice thought
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Old 05-28-2007, 11:44 AM   #14
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Fucking awesome match.
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Old 05-28-2007, 11:47 AM   #15
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He's probably one of the smallest wrestlers I have ever seen btw... so WWE isn't an option for him.
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Old 05-28-2007, 11:50 AM   #16
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Down at the bottom, the guy has links to the BJ Whitmer Vs Jimmy Jacobs cage match. I suggest everyone watch that match now. It is badass.
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Old 05-29-2007, 03:37 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeanderCarl
That's not ironic.
1 : a pretense of ignorance and of willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other's false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning

2 a : the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning b : a usually humorous or sardonic literary style or form characterized by irony

3 a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity b : incongruity between a situation developed in a drama and the accompanying words or actions that is understood by the audience but not by the characters in the play

It's irony. Roderick Strong and PAC were opponents in the video, and then went on to become successful allies. The expected sequence of events would be for enemies to destroy or hurt each other, not the opposite.

It's easy to get confused. A lot of people get carried away with the idea that irony is often used incorrectly, so when they see it, they question it even though it is used correctly.
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Old 05-29-2007, 03:40 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan X
He's probably one of the smallest wrestlers I have ever seen btw... so WWE isn't an option for him.
In the video I posted, he actually seems pretty built. I mean, he's still cruiserweight small, but he's more of a Paul London than a Jack Evans or Spike Dudley (the latter of which actually found quite a bit of success in the WWE). I'm not expecting him to be signed, though. And if he did, he would be cruiserweight job fodder.
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Old 05-29-2007, 03:42 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impact!
Actually he's one of my favourite up and comers (or new guys). Haven't seen a shitload of his work but I've seen enough of him that I can definetly say that I like him. If the rumours of the WWE looking to make a brand in the UK are true I hope he does get picked up.
I am in exactly the same position regarding where I sit on the guy. I've only seen a bit from him, but what I have seen has been good. Now that he is doing more and more shows in the United States, I hope Ring of Honor books him for some shows. They should definitely use him during their next UK tour.
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Old 05-29-2007, 04:13 AM   #20
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PAC in RoH would be pretty fucking good
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Old 05-29-2007, 05:26 AM   #21
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You never know.... Jack Evans is supposed to be forming that stable...

They could do like Evans, Pac, and Irish Airborne.
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:33 AM   #22
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Ugh god please no.

He's very athletically gifted but he needs a *lot* of work to be able to connect to a crowd properly (hint - if you have to clap your hands to get the crowd going for most of your spots you're not doing something right).

He could also use a makeover and a gimmick. WSX were supposedly going to give him a Sex Pistols-esque gimmick, which would've been interesting, at least.

Eventually he might make it but right now the only way he should be compared to somebody like Evans or Sydal (who is so sorely underrated) is in the number of flips he can do. Both those guys smoke him in pretty much every other category.
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:57 AM   #23
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So he is a cruiserwieght? Don't care.
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Old 05-29-2007, 01:33 PM   #24
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lol, all the missus said was "those shorts are a bit tight ain't they?". lol.
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:15 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
1 : a pretense of ignorance and of willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other's false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning

2 a : the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning b : a usually humorous or sardonic literary style or form characterized by irony

3 a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity b : incongruity between a situation developed in a drama and the accompanying words or actions that is understood by the audience but not by the characters in the play

It's irony. Roderick Strong and PAC were opponents in the video, and then went on to become successful allies. The expected sequence of events would be for enemies to destroy or hurt each other, not the opposite.

It's easy to get confused. A lot of people get carried away with the idea that irony is often used incorrectly, so when they see it, they question it even though it is used correctly.
No. The fact that once upon a time they had a match and now they team up isn't ironic.

If they had been bitter enemies who swore blind they would never ever team up, and now they are a regular team, that would be a little bit closer.
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:03 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeanderCarl
No. The fact that once upon a time they had a match and now they team up isn't ironic.

If they had been bitter enemies who swore blind they would never ever team up, and now they are a regular team, that would be a little bit closer.
Time really has nothing to do with irony.

People unfamiliar with both men would see that video, and it would go right over their heads that those two men are now Tag Team Champions. If there was reference to them being Champions, or it was Champion vs. Champion, then it wouldn't be ironic.
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:05 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do?
You never know.... Jack Evans is supposed to be forming that stable...

They could do like Evans, Pac, and Irish Airborne.
That sounds fucking awesome. Except, seeing as the No Remorse Corps and Resilience only have three members a piece, maybe Irish Airborne could be substituted for Matt Sydal?

Roderick Strong, Davey Richards and Rocky Romero vs. Delirious, Matt Cross and Erick Stevens vs. Jack Evans, Matt Sydal and PAC? That would have some insane shit in it.
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:07 AM   #28
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It's not ironic.

They're two "competitors" in a "sport." Assuming there was no big rivalry between them, it's not that odd that they've teamed up. There are may teams over time that the two members have fought each other before teaming up. If a player on a football team was traded to a team that he played against the last season, that's not ironic.

Now if he was traded to his teams biggest rival, that's more on the ironic side.
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:10 AM   #29
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I think Sydal needs to be on his own for a bit, play up his cockiness. Plus, I see no reason why the other 2 couldn't add a member... When Aries comes back, Resilience could have 4 if Delirious actually joins them.

NRC wouldn't be hard to add someone too either.
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:13 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do?
It's not ironic.

They're two "competitors" in a "sport." Assuming there was no big rivalry between them, it's not that odd that they've teamed up. There are may teams over time that the two members have fought each other before teaming up. If a player on a football team was traded to a team that he played against the last season, that's not ironic.

Now if he was traded to his teams biggest rival, that's more on the ironic side.
See, I'm not thinking of it as a sport. I'm thinking of it as an art form, or morality play. In that video, Roderick Strong is a "bad guy," whereas PAC is the hometown hero, trying to bring them some glory. That he is now helping that bad guy in another promotion, is ironic.

I guess it is open to interpretation, as is a lot of irony, but this example perfectly fits definition #3: The sequence of events is this: Roderick Strong fights PAC, Roderick Strong and PAC win tag team tournament. You would not expect the second to follow the first.
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:15 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do?
I think Sydal needs to be on his own for a bit, play up his cockiness. Plus, I see no reason why the other 2 couldn't add a member... When Aries comes back, Resilience could have 4 if Delirious actually joins them.

NRC wouldn't be hard to add someone too either.
I would love to see Sydal develop himself further, but he does seem to be getting lost in the shuffle a bit. If he can continue to get attention from ROH by being on his own, I have no problem with it. Irish Airborne could use the attention of being featured in a major storyline, anyway.
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Old 05-30-2007, 01:16 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
See, I'm not thinking of it as a sport. I'm thinking of it as an art form, or morality play. In that video, Roderick Strong is a "bad guy," whereas PAC is the hometown hero, trying to bring them some glory. That he is now helping that bad guy in another promotion, is ironic.

I guess it is open to interpretation, as is a lot of irony, but this example perfectly fits definition #3: The sequence of events is this: Roderick Strong fights PAC, Roderick Strong and PAC win tag team tournament. You would not expect the second to follow the first.
See, if PAC had needed a partner and the ONLY person who was willing to team with him was the one man who he had said he would never team with, and they ended up making such a great team they became champions, that would be ironic.

Also by definition 3: A man and woman get married. As they leave the church a plane falls on top of them and kill them. You would not expect the second to follow the first. Does that make it IRONIC? Not even slightly.
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Old 05-30-2007, 02:33 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeanderCarl
See, if PAC had needed a partner and the ONLY person who was willing to team with him was the one man who he had said he would never team with, and they ended up making such a great team they became champions, that would be ironic.

Also by definition 3: A man and woman get married. As they leave the church a plane falls on top of them and kill them. You would not expect the second to follow the first. Does that make it IRONIC? Not even slightly.
The example you gave is definitely not ironic. I'll let you have this one, but I am still sure it could be counted as ironic that PAC and Strong's next interaction after they were opponents for a singles title was to compete for a tag team title.

The only difference between your example of what would make PAC/Strong ironic and what did happen, is that PAC would need to make it blatantly obvious that he didn't like Strong after their match. I am going under the assumption it didn't need to be said, because being opponents in a singles match implies rivalry, whereas being a successful tag team implies cohesion.

That's really the beauty of irony, though. It works on different levels, and is often open to interpretation. But anyway, I like you enough to trust you, and try and learn from you, so we'll just chalk this up to a win for you and WWKD (who I also greatly respect).
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Old 05-30-2007, 02:58 PM   #34
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:00 PM   #35
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Whoever created the version of Pacman above is basically begging ghosts to kick his ass.
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:01 PM   #36
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Well, I'm an English Language and Lit student, with straight A* grades through school and now mid degree. I know a bit about language and how it is used, and it just isn't irony. I'm not sure where you got your definition from.

I can see how it can be confusing, what with that definition.

In the words of comedian Ed Byrne, when he's discussing Alanis Morissette's song Ironic... "A thousand spoons when all you need is a knife? That's not ironic, that's just unfortunate! It would be ironic if, the next day, you find out that a spoon would have done."
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:10 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeanderCarl
Well, I'm an English Language and Lit student, with straight A* grades through school and now mid degree. I know a bit about language and how it is used, and it just isn't irony. I'm not sure where you got your definition from.

I can see how it can be confusing, what with that definition.

In the words of comedian Ed Byrne, when he's discussing Alanis Morissette's song Ironic... "A thousand spoons when all you need is a knife? That's not ironic, that's just unfortunate! It would be ironic if, the next day, you find out that a spoon would have done."
No, you seen Alanis Morissette's song Ironic is purposefully ironic in that nothing in the song is ironic execpt the song itself.
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:20 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
In the video I posted, he actually seems pretty built. I mean, he's still cruiserweight small, but he's more of a Paul London than a Jack Evans or Spike Dudley (the latter of which actually found quite a bit of success in the WWE). I'm not expecting him to be signed, though. And if he did, he would be cruiserweight job fodder.
Ehhhh... sorry man he's much smaller than he looks on that video. He looked like a jobber in an ROH dark match he was so small.
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Old 05-30-2007, 04:57 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
No, you seen Alanis Morissette's song Ironic is purposefully ironic in that nothing in the song is ironic execpt the song itself.


It's ironic that there isn't an example of the word ironic in the song.
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Old 05-30-2007, 05:15 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeanderCarl
Well, I'm an English Language and Lit student, with straight A* grades through school and now mid degree. I know a bit about language and how it is used, and it just isn't irony. I'm not sure where you got your definition from.
I got my definition from Merriam-Webster.

I'm in a similar boat, got straight A's through high school, etc. I'm sure it can be considered ironic when a guy survives being stranded at sea, and then he comes home, takes a bath and drowns. Likewise it would be ironic if PAC engages in battle with Roderick Strong at sea, then returns home and is his ally.

Irony requires a cultural perspective, and I can see why you would not consider it irony. For the same reason as WWKD doesn't: If wrestling is considered a sport, and wrestlers are expected to team with each other one week, and face each other the next, it would not be ironic. It's the expected discourse between two people. If you take the entertainment and storytelling side of wrestling as lore, though; being the partner of a guy means you don't fight him, it really is ironic that two opponents find themselves working well as a tag team.

It really depends on how you inference their match in ROH, and what implications you attach to it. I'm attaching quite a bit, whereas you probably aren't. I think that's where we keep missing each other.
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