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Old 06-20-2007, 11:03 AM   #1
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I just watched RAW, and noticed something I liked
I don't watch RAW every week, so I'm not sure if this is the first week of this development, but Jerry Lawler was being damn heelish in the booth. First of all, he made note that Paul London was smiling when Vince McMahon walked past during the opening match, then he chastised Jeff Hardy for attacking Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch (who were just making themselves clear, according to Lawler). During the women's match, he called Jillian Hall a great singer, and acted offended when Mickie James interrupted. He then got on JR's case in the main event for always being on the face's side, calling Lashley on his illegal offence, and cutting JR off when he talked about Cena's power.

I have not been Lawler's biggest supporter recently, but I'm going to say this: I loved his commentary this week on RAW. I hope he keeps up this heel shtick, and he furthers it even more. The most distinct thing off about JR and King these days is that King is just a babyface echo of JR. If that changes, I can see myself liking them as a duo a lot more.

Pfft
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Old 06-20-2007, 11:20 AM   #2
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I've never been as negative on Lawler and JR as everyone else is but I did notice and enjoy Lawler's all out heel commentator thing on Raw. It was a bit refreshing. He's always kinda been on the heel's side every once in a while but he usually does it in a joking matter.

With the exception of the whole "This is the first time Booker and Lashley have ever competed against each other" and JR agreeing with it thing, which just made me cringe, I thought the commentary was good all night long.
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Old 06-20-2007, 11:40 AM   #3
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I always liked him pre 2001, he was a great heel commentator, when he he came back after the Invasion, he wasn't the same guy.

Also since McMahon "Death" they have been really using it to the take the chance to define their heels better, I think so anyway. Even still it could probably used in a better way, atleast their trying something.
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Old 06-20-2007, 11:43 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan
With the exception of the whole "This is the first time Booker and Lashley have ever competed against each other" and JR agreeing with it thing, which just made me cringe, I thought the commentary was good all night long.
Also, if JR calls Cena's cradled veriticle suplex a fishermans suplex one more time I'm goin to Oklahoma.
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:38 PM   #5
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As #1-wwf-fan mentioned the whole "Booker and Lashley have never faced each other" thing, I'd like to take this moment to point something out.

I was watching No Way Out 2007 yesterday... and I hated during the Lashley/Kennedy match, Cole and JBL were saying how they're familiar with Kennedy but don't know too much about ECW Champion Bobby Lashley.

I guess those two years on Smackdown didn't really happen did they?
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad
I guess those two years on Smackdown didn't really happen did they?
Kennedy was on SmackDown!?
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:43 PM   #7
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London actually got a new asshole torn verbally by Vince backstage after someone pointed out London's goofy smile
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:56 PM   #8
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I think Deuce was also smiling during it. I noticed a smirk on his face.
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Old 06-20-2007, 01:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
I don't watch RAW every week, so I'm not sure if this is the first week of this development, but Jerry Lawler was being damn heelish in the booth.
Good observation regarding Lawler.

I think one of the BIGGEST problems the WWE has had in the last 6 years, is that they have no clue on how to push people that the fans are CHEERING for (notice I didn't use the term 'face' here).

In the last 6 years, almost every guy that has garnered HUGE face pops, have been heel. Upon turning face, almost ALL of these wrestlers lost their steam....and started getting lukewarm reactions (or even worse).

The list goes on and on. Orton, Lesnar, Cena, Guerrero, Angle, HBK, Triple H, etc., etc., etc.

Heck - even The Rock in 2002 started losing his steam when he started kissing the fans' ass.

Austin originally became popular when he ACTED like a heel and ACTED like a badass.

Bottom line? It's not about faces and heels anymore. It hasn't been like that for 6 years, and the WWE still haven't clued in.

It's ALL about character maximization. It's no coincidence that Orton was flat out cheered when he 1st won the title back in 04'.

The WWE should simply focus on getting the MOST out of their characters: period. Hell - if 80-85% of the roster need to "act" like a heel to get the most out of their character, then I say go for it.

Even if EVERYONE in the WWE acted like a heel, the fans would still end up cheering a large majority of the wrestlers anyways.
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Old 06-20-2007, 01:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator
London actually got a new asshole torn verbally by Vince backstage after someone pointed out London's goofy smile
LOL, how long until WWE.com is wishing London the best of luck for his future endeavours?
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Old 06-20-2007, 01:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad
I guess those two years on Smackdown didn't really happen did they?
Lashley was NOT on Smackdown for two years.
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Old 06-20-2007, 01:12 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Instant Classic
LOL, how long until WWE.com is wishing London the best of luck for his future endeavours?
How long until London is flipping around the six-sided ring?
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Old 06-20-2007, 01:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet
How long until London is flipping around the six-sided ring?
And being used PROPERLY GOD DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!111
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Old 06-20-2007, 01:17 PM   #14
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As far as the commentators go, every time I start thinking about how JR and Lawler are losing it I go and watch Impact. And then I go say a thankful prayer that they are still on TV.
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Old 06-20-2007, 01:46 PM   #15
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Yeah, but that's like being thankful you got Herpes instead of AIDS.
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Old 06-20-2007, 01:48 PM   #16
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But at least Herpes is more of an uncomfortable inconvenience, AIDS can kill you.
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Old 06-20-2007, 01:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet
But at least JR and Lawler are more of an uncomfortable inconvenience, Don West can kill you.
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Old 06-20-2007, 04:36 PM   #18
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AIDS/West can kill me, but herpes/King can make me wish I never lived.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:06 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Optimist
AIDS/West can kill me, but herpes/King can make me wish I never lived.

To be fair...Don West does both.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Kool
To be fair...Don West does both.
http://donwest69.ytmnd.com/
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet
But at least Herpes is more of an uncomfortable inconvenience, AIDS can kill you.
Herpes can kill you, too. It's just far more unlikely. Either way, JR&King or West and a shotgun to your brain, it's a negative. It's just a lesser negative.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:13 PM   #22
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With all WWE announce teams (meaning JR/King, JBL/Cole, Styles/Tazz), they all have their faults but most of it contributes to our search for perfection in our announce team, and anything stupid can for the most part be tuned out or passed on as a little stupid. TNA (Tenay/West) are so bad though, that you can't help but notice the annoyance...and this comes from a fan that usually has no trouble tuning commentary out. They are ignorant, over excited, and don't STFU when they should...but what do you expect of a former WCW announcer and a John Madden wannabe.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:16 PM   #23
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You know, I might get slapped for this but I wouldn't mind seeing TNA give Jermey Brosch a try. He doesn't seem like he would be for the best, but I already find his backstage stuff better than Mike or Don's. Team him up with a worker with some good mic skills and decent wrestling knowledge (beyond punch, kick, suplex), and it might just work out.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:46 PM   #24
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I agree. King and Ross can annoy me, but Tenay/West are the only team on the market that I truly fucking hate.
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Old 06-20-2007, 07:30 PM   #25
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You know what I really liked about RAW? That roll under the bottom rope that Randy Orton did right before RKOing Lashley.
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Old 06-20-2007, 07:35 PM   #26
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Paul Heyman is the greatest color commentator of all-time.

Him and JR were unfrigginbelievable back in 2001. The two men had great chemistry with one another (partly due to the fact that they didn't really like each other that much at the time).

As much as people knock on JR, you can't replace the guy's enthusiasm.

JR and Heyman were tremendous. Best duo ever.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:35 PM   #27
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Meh, Gorilla and Bobby were the best duo ever, followed by Vince and Jesse. I'll give you JR and Heyman in third.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:43 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator
London actually got a new asshole torn verbally by Vince backstage after someone pointed out London's goofy smile
That sucks. It makes no sense for every wrestler to have a solemn look on their face. They didn't know he was going to explode. Paul London's character is that of a goofy idiot (well, I think it might be, Vince never gives them a chance to develop any character). I'm sure Paul London didn't miss the memo, and he is actually really decent in the "acting" department (if you can call it that), so I'm sure there was a reason behind his smile.

A good promotion would give London a chance to explore that reason, and take the time to address it (as Jerry Lawler kind of did on commentary). But no, it doesn't fit into the WWE's stock-dropping plan.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:50 PM   #29
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If Paul London found himself unemployed, I'm pretty sure he'd end up back in Ring of Honor before TNA. And I'm pretty sure I'll be cumming all the way to getting my hands on his matches, somehow.

I never appreciated them at the time (I was slightly markish back then), but JR and Heyman were gold. Especially Heyman. Jerry Lawler is apparently getting charged with assault, so in his absence, it would be sweet if they brought back Heyman, again. I can see them not trusting him in a live environment, though, so maybe have JBL go to RAW, and have Heyman take over SmackDown! colour duties?

Mike Tenay is a great commentator. Don West is the squeaky wheel in that team. I still maintain that they should replace West with Raven, and actually have a colour guy that people know for a reason, who can add a lot about the psychology of a match to the broadcast.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:59 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyman
Paul Heyman is the greatest color commentator of all-time.

Him and JR were unfrigginbelievable back in 2001. The two men had great chemistry with one another (partly due to the fact that they didn't really like each other that much at the time).

As much as people knock on JR, you can't replace the guy's enthusiasm.

JR and Heyman were tremendous. Best duo ever.
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Old 06-21-2007, 02:47 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
Jerry Lawler is apparently getting charged with assault
When the hell did this happen? (not saying I don't believe you, but I kind of missed this one).
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Old 06-21-2007, 02:49 AM   #32
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Check the news board.
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Old 06-21-2007, 03:04 AM   #33
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Personally, I didn't like the King heel thing, because all he does is say "I didn't see anything" or have someone else say "I saw it right there, King" to him because he denies that someone did something that everyone else (even other heel commentators like JBL) would see. The way he plays it is annoying to me, and the way JR plays off of it is even worse. I guess I'm in the minority here.

But here's the thing: If the rumors are STILL true that JR will retire sometime this year, then definitly the King has to go too, because he seems to make anyone else besides JR look like a retard (not in a kayfabe way, but as in a "I don't want to see you liked as a good commentator in the WWE and I'll go out of kayfabe to DO it" way). So, assuming that they DO that (and I doubt they would, but one can dream), then I would say do whatever you can to get Mark Madden back. As much as some people may have HATED him, I didn't find him all that bad in WCW. And he's looking, so he might be a good fit in the WWE and RAW.

Now, I'm STILL a big proponent to see WWE give Tony Schivoni whatever the fuck it takes for him to come back (jewels, gold-plated hummers, whatever), because seeing as how RAW is still Vince's "baby", and Schivoni wanted to give Nitro a "big show feel" (in whatever way), the marrage would actually pay off. Plus, you can get him into a possible angle about his Mick Foley becoming champ comment, where the heel Vince (whenever he reveals himself as undead) calls Schivoni on it, and when Tony says he was only doing his job, Vince retaliates by trying to get one of his hired cronies to go against him in a match and then have some wrestler save him and start a feud based on that comment (maybe Mick Foley himself, saying that Tony's comment was the BEST thing he ever got because of the immediate effect it had). I wouldn't bring that other guy back they had during the 2000 year in WCW because that guy sounded like he needed some throat operations.

So yeah, I would be happy with a Schivoni/Madden reunion sometime down the road on RAW. Now, if the Larry Zybisco thing is true, and assuming JBL would like to return to the ring, it could end up with either a Schivoni/Madden and a Cole/Zybisco thing, or have the ORIGINAL hour one Nitro crew on RAW (Schivoni/Zybisco) and Madden/Cole on SmackDown (why I would want to hear a Madden/Cole team, I'll never know. I'm just trying to predict things here).
Last edited by darkpower; 06-21-2007 at 03:07 AM.
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Old 06-21-2007, 05:25 AM   #34
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You lost all credibility at Mark Madden.
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Old 06-21-2007, 06:32 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkpower
Personally, I didn't like the King heel thing, because all he does is say "I didn't see anything" or have someone else say "I saw it right there, King" to him because he denies that someone did something that everyone else (even other heel commentators like JBL) would see. The way he plays it is annoying to me, and the way JR plays off of it is even worse. I guess I'm in the minority here.

But here's the thing: If the rumors are STILL true that JR will retire sometime this year, then definitly the King has to go too, because he seems to make anyone else besides JR look like a retard (not in a kayfabe way, but as in a "I don't want to see you liked as a good commentator in the WWE and I'll go out of kayfabe to DO it" way). So, assuming that they DO that (and I doubt they would, but one can dream), then I would say do whatever you can to get Mark Madden back. As much as some people may have HATED him, I didn't find him all that bad in WCW. And he's looking, so he might be a good fit in the WWE and RAW.

Now, I'm STILL a big proponent to see WWE give Tony Schivoni whatever the fuck it takes for him to come back (jewels, gold-plated hummers, whatever), because seeing as how RAW is still Vince's "baby", and Schivoni wanted to give Nitro a "big show feel" (in whatever way), the marrage would actually pay off. Plus, you can get him into a possible angle about his Mick Foley becoming champ comment, where the heel Vince (whenever he reveals himself as undead) calls Schivoni on it, and when Tony says he was only doing his job, Vince retaliates by trying to get one of his hired cronies to go against him in a match and then have some wrestler save him and start a feud based on that comment (maybe Mick Foley himself, saying that Tony's comment was the BEST thing he ever got because of the immediate effect it had). I wouldn't bring that other guy back they had during the 2000 year in WCW because that guy sounded like he needed some throat operations.

So yeah, I would be happy with a Schivoni/Madden reunion sometime down the road on RAW. Now, if the Larry Zybisco thing is true, and assuming JBL would like to return to the ring, it could end up with either a Schivoni/Madden and a Cole/Zybisco thing, or have the ORIGINAL hour one Nitro crew on RAW (Schivoni/Zybisco) and Madden/Cole on SmackDown (why I would want to hear a Madden/Cole team, I'll never know. I'm just trying to predict things here).
I get what you're saying about King as a heel, but I think that is more to do with JR playing off him poorly than King being a bad heel guy. King did call Cena getting hit from behind by King Booker. I think JR just needs to stop being so dismissive of heel King by being so agreeable with him. When King was like "I don't see Cena being overpowered, I see his face turning red," JR should have been all " BAH GAWD! How dare you, King?!? Cena is a stud!" I mean, stepping down to the heel has its place, but I think JR was still treating King as a face commentator, despite him going heel for the show.

Tony Schiavone gets way too much shit, he was apparently a good commentator when he wasn't trying to shill it as the biggest show ever. I'm not going to touch on Mark Madden. I've never really listening to him (to my knowledge), but general consensus seems to be he is pretty terrible.

The WWE doesn't need to look outwards for their commentating talent. They have more than enough available to them. I mean, just look at their play-by-play guys: Michael Cole, Joey Styles, Todd Grisham and Josh Mathews. And that is probably in order of how the WWE sees them, too. The WWE also has JBL, Tazz, Jonathan Coachman, Jack Korpela, Brad Armstrong, Al Snow, Michael Hayes and Paul Heyman under contract in the colour department. Josh Mathews can also work colour. Tommy Dreamer has done colour before, but he's an active wrestler, so I'm ruling him out.

Personally, I'd love to see them put Michael Cole and Tazz together again. They just worked brilliantly together. Put them on SmackDown!, as that is where they are known for their previous stint together. Joey Styles can get promoted to RAW, because let's face it, he's the best play-by-play guy the WWE has. JBL is the best colour guy, and they love him, so it seems logical John Layfield sit beside Styles. That leaves us with ECW, which now needs to replace both it's play-by-play and colour commentators. In the play-by-play role, I'd have Josh Mathews become the permanent guy. Next to Styles, he is the best guy under contract. Beside Mathews I'd stick Paul Heyman. He would work great with Mathews, in my opinion, as Mathews has a wrestling background, so at least one member of the duo does.

You can pretty much stick them wherever, actually, but the teams of Joey Styles and John Layfield, Michael Cole and Tazz and Josh Mathews and Paul Heyman seem like the best adjustments to the commentary teams.
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Old 06-21-2007, 08:47 AM   #36
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Quote:
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You lost all credibility at Mark Madden.
Mark Madden is a shit-sucking, cock-sucking piece of scum-sucking shit.
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Old 06-21-2007, 08:28 PM   #37
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The only thing I didn't like was that pun that King made during the divas match, everything else was great. And I'll probably never remember what exactly the joke was during the divas match, but it just made me go WTF?
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Old 06-22-2007, 02:22 AM   #38
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Quote:
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You lost all credibility at Mark Madden.
Never said he was a POPULAR pick, but a logical pick given that they played off each other well, and Mark seemed like the type of commentator that wasn't afraid to reveal his knowledge to the inner workings of the business.

You DO need someone that Schivoni can work well with, and I'm sorry, but I don't think the King would be a good pick for that. Zybisko, Heenan, and Madden are the three that he could feel comfortable with since he's worked with them. I would be MORE than happy with Schivoni/Heenan team again, but that can't happen because of Heenan's condition. Zybisko, to my knowlegde, was one of the most unpopular color guys ever (not sure why, though. He was decent, even though he overdid the whole "New World ODOR" thing in WCW), and I dunno if the WWE is willing to try him yet in any role if they do sign him. That leaves Madden, who is avaliable, has worked with Schivoni in the past, and knows the business to a degree. Unless no one minds Zybisko, and/or WWE has faith in that, I'd go for Madden.
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