You know what the WWE should try again?

**darkpower** · 08-08-2007, 04:47 AM

Stuff like this:

Jeff Jarrett Lies Down for Hogan Part1/2
Uploaded by Whome24

Vince Russo 'Shoots' on Hogan Part 2/2
Uploaded by Whome24

Ok, this was halfway an excuse for me to post the infamous WCW Bash At The Beach 2000 incident with Hogan and Russo, but this is something I campaigned for Khali to do to help his character out.

The worked shoot.

The fans aren't stupid, and for the better part of the attitude era (and most of the WCW Russo era), we were subject to more shoots than ever. This was one of the things I think Russo DOES do good with (which is a rarity, Russo doing something RIGHT).

I think the WWE needs another VERY good worked shoot, or some kind of thing that lets fans see the behind the scenes events in the WWE more freely (not TOO freely).

You think someone coming out and really ripping on Vince (about Benoit, or steroids, or Hogan, or TNA, or something else), and going on a tangent would help things?

And since I posted it, your thoughts NOW on the BATB 2000 incident, compared to what you may have thought then?

(BTW, Scott Hudson was one of the better color commentators around, and a rarety that Madden did a good color).

**Outsider** · 08-08-2007, 05:55 AM

**darkpower** · 08-08-2007, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outsider

I guess that is a "no" from you.

**darkpower** · 08-08-2007, 06:00 AM

By the way, I kind of mean things that are unplanned and shoots, not exactly things that will get people to leave the arena in disgust like that nearly did. Russo saved that, actually.

**Outsider** · 08-08-2007, 07:00 AM

Bear in mind, it was never proven how much of that was a shoot and how much was a work.

From what I remember though, it was Hogan's last WCW apperance. So I guess that made it a good thing.

Plus Booker T winning his first WCW Title later that night made it a better thing.

But probably not an idea that should be repeated.

**What Would Kevin Do?** · 08-08-2007, 07:20 AM

According to Eric Bischoff's book, it was all a work until Russo made the match between Booker and Jarrett.

**Dave Youell** · 08-08-2007, 08:34 AM

Ok, shoots can work sometimes, but not in the example given.

One that sticks out was when Ken Shamrock was trying to find Ryan and it turned out Taker had kidnapped her.

So Ken got in the ring and said something like ‘this has gone far enough now, get out here Mark’

Because he called him Mark instead of Taker, it made you feel like this was going beyond the script, it’s little things like that which I like

Or the whole Edge/Matt Hardy thing, that was done brilliantly.

Thing with shoots is, you normally need something to happen in real life to trigger it off, so it’s not like it’s something that can just be forced through, and you don’t want to call wolf too many times, if you do some worked shoots, then some shoot shoots, the fans won’t give a shit or care what’s real and what’s not, that’s one of the reason’s WCW is dead

All out shoots just don’t work, it’s one of the things that destroyed Russo’s legacy and it was done in desperation to try and gain interest in the product, it was a nice idea, but I felt it went too far, if Russo didn’t do the promo that night it could have been done a lot better as it would of gained more interest.

**Kane Knight** · 08-08-2007, 09:33 AM

I think darkpower may have picked one of the single worst possible examples to demonstrate.

**Rob** · 08-08-2007, 09:36 AM

Worked shoots suck. They NEVER are done properly and thus make no money. Only thing close to being a good one was Matt Hardy and Edge.

**KingofOldSchool** · 08-08-2007, 10:40 AM

And they blew that one.

**Innovator** · 08-08-2007, 10:48 AM

Worked shoots work once in a blue moon. Russo tried to overdo it...thing is he was playing to about 5-10% of the overall audience. Those fans would get it, the others were just confused.

**FourFifty** · 08-08-2007, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outsider

I think Outsider's post sums up most of the wrestling world's views on this topic.

**The Mackem** · 08-08-2007, 01:31 PM

I remember when TNA used the Jeff Jarrett/Hogan storyline for a bit but then Hogan did not make a single appearance and thus TNA just pulled the whole storyline. Then the TNA guys started whinging when the fans started chanting for Hogan afterwards. Haha good times.

**#1-norm-fan** · 08-08-2007, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkpower

You think someone coming out and really ripping on Vince (about Benoit, or steroids, or Hogan, or TNA, or something else), and going on a tangent would help things?

Umm... I really don't think someone coming out on WWE tv and ranting about Benoit as JR says "Umm... this is not part of the... entertainment... tonight." would really be a good idea. Maybe that's just me!

**Kane Knight** · 08-08-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob

Worked shoots suck. They NEVER are done properly and thus make no money. Only thing close to being a good one was Matt Hardy and Edge.

And they blew that like darkpower's mom on a workday.

(HEEL TURN BAH GAWD!)

**Rammsteinmad** · 08-08-2007, 02:27 PM

Dave Youell pretty much summed it all up.

Matt Hardy calling Edge "Adam" really makes it feel more real.

**Shisen Kopf** · 08-08-2007, 02:45 PM

**Stickman** · 08-08-2007, 02:48 PM

Q: You know what the WWE should try again?
A: Creative writing

**darkpower** · 08-08-2007, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kane Knight

I think darkpower may have picked one of the single worst possible examples to demonstrate.

Agreed. This is a better one.

**Super V** · 08-08-2007, 03:48 PM

I loved that whole thing with Russo at Bash at the Beach.

**Super V** · 08-08-2007, 03:51 PM

Also I never realized that Christopher Daniels was a referee.

**Kane Knight** · 08-08-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad

Dave Youell pretty much summed it all up.

Matt Hardy calling Edge "Adam" really makes it feel more real.

To an extent.

**Anybody Thrilla** · 08-08-2007, 04:02 PM

According to Bischoff's book, the lay down was supposed to lead to a big angle where Hogan left and a new champion was crowned in a tournament. After the tournament, Hogan would show up with the old belt and talk about how he was never beaten, and there'd be a match between the new champion and Hogan. It actually sounded like a decent idea, but Russo went against the entire plan and fucked everything up with his little shoot up there.

Then wCw died.

Why in the fuck would anybody want to try that again?

**darkpower** · 08-08-2007, 04:13 PM

Actually, AOL/Time Warner killed WCW by not wanting to have anything to do with wrestling. I personally think that WCW might still be around if it wasn't for the merger and all that happening within that umbrella. Sure, Russo's say in things really didn't help matters, but it might've went into a turnaround (or worse) if AOL wasn't as squimish about wrestling as they were.

**Anybody Thrilla** · 08-08-2007, 04:15 PM

Either way, the shoot didn't help anything.

**darkpower** · 08-08-2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla

Either way, the shoot didn't help anything.

Not really...did like it, though. I did agree with what Russo said about Hogan being a politician (sort of like now. He MUST have creative control on EVERYTHING).

But yeah, the Joey Styles one is a much better example. My mind kept going to BATB2K because the announcers were so good there, too (for some reason, the team they had there, sans Madden, worked for me).

But still, I'm thinking that they have to do something to create buzz and a worked shoot from someone would be something to create some buzz (even if it IS a Benoit/steroids rant).

**Kane Knight** · 08-08-2007, 04:36 PM

The shoot helped tank the ratings.

Now, I'll DA both sides of the ratings argument, but the fact is, the show would have been far harded to kill with good ratings. AOL/TW may have killed it anyway, and we'll never know for sure, but with higher ratings it might have survived and either been picked up by another network, or continued despite their disinterest.

Ratings are why WWF/E survived the PTC. It's hard to take down a show where the ratings are still strong.

**Mr. Nerfect** · 08-09-2007, 06:12 AM

Shoots can be good. Edge/Matt was good until they turned Matt into a pussy, and I quite enjoyed the promos done by Joey Styles and Paul Heyman (that RAW were Styles "quit" and the original One Night Stand, respectively) quite a fair bit. I think wrestlers' personal lives could be used a bit more than what they are, and guys should be allowed to cut their own promos, but I think a "worked shoot" should avoid exposing all the secrets of the company.

**The Mackem** · 08-09-2007, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla

According to Bischoff's book, the lay down was supposed to lead to a big angle where Hogan left and a new champion was crowned in a tournament. After the tournament, Hogan would show up with the old belt and talk about how he was never beaten, and there'd be a match between the new champion and Hogan. It actually sounded like a decent idea, but Russo went against the entire plan and fucked everything up with his little shoot up there.

Then wCw died.

Why in the fuck would anybody want to try that again?

You see this is what I never understood in WCW. There never seemed to be anyone in overall charge so what could stop any random going to the ring and screwing up everything without everyone thinking 'oh, it's probably one of those shoot thingys again'.

**hitman23** · 08-10-2007, 12:59 AM

I remember watching that thinking how great that was at the time. I honestly believed that was going to turn wcw around. Man what the hell was i smokin!

08-08-2007, 04:47 AM	#1
darkpower Why So Curious? Posts: 3,408	You know what the WWE should try again? Stuff like this: Jeff Jarrett Lies Down for Hogan Part1/2 Uploaded by Whome24 Vince Russo 'Shoots' on Hogan Part 2/2 Uploaded by Whome24 Ok, this was halfway an excuse for me to post the infamous WCW Bash At The Beach 2000 incident with Hogan and Russo, but this is something I campaigned for Khali to do to help his character out. The worked shoot. The fans aren't stupid, and for the better part of the attitude era (and most of the WCW Russo era), we were subject to more shoots than ever. This was one of the things I think Russo DOES do good with (which is a rarity, Russo doing something RIGHT). I think the WWE needs another VERY good worked shoot, or some kind of thing that lets fans see the behind the scenes events in the WWE more freely (not TOO freely). You think someone coming out and really ripping on Vince (about Benoit, or steroids, or Hogan, or TNA, or something else), and going on a tangent would help things? And since I posted it, your thoughts NOW on the BATB 2000 incident, compared to what you may have thought then? (BTW, Scott Hudson was one of the better color commentators around, and a rarety that Madden did a good color).

08-08-2007, 05:55 AM	#2
Outsider Just Some Guy Posts: 14,679

08-08-2007, 06:00 AM	#4
darkpower Why So Curious? Posts: 3,408	By the way, I kind of mean things that are unplanned and shoots, not exactly things that will get people to leave the arena in disgust like that nearly did. Russo saved that, actually.

08-08-2007, 07:00 AM	#5
Outsider Just Some Guy Posts: 14,679	Bear in mind, it was never proven how much of that was a shoot and how much was a work. From what I remember though, it was Hogan's last WCW apperance. So I guess that made it a good thing. Plus Booker T winning his first WCW Title later that night made it a better thing. But probably not an idea that should be repeated.

08-08-2007, 07:20 AM	#6
What Would Kevin Do? Ninja Mod, Esquire Posts: 12,676	According to Eric Bischoff's book, it was all a work until Russo made the match between Booker and Jarrett.

08-08-2007, 08:34 AM	#7
Dave Youell 1/2 Optimist 1/2 Amazing Posts: 12,427	Ok, shoots can work sometimes, but not in the example given. One that sticks out was when Ken Shamrock was trying to find Ryan and it turned out Taker had kidnapped her. So Ken got in the ring and said something like ‘this has gone far enough now, get out here Mark’ Because he called him Mark instead of Taker, it made you feel like this was going beyond the script, it’s little things like that which I like Or the whole Edge/Matt Hardy thing, that was done brilliantly. Thing with shoots is, you normally need something to happen in real life to trigger it off, so it’s not like it’s something that can just be forced through, and you don’t want to call wolf too many times, if you do some worked shoots, then some shoot shoots, the fans won’t give a shit or care what’s real and what’s not, that’s one of the reason’s WCW is dead All out shoots just don’t work, it’s one of the things that destroyed Russo’s legacy and it was done in desperation to try and gain interest in the product, it was a nice idea, but I felt it went too far, if Russo didn’t do the promo that night it could have been done a lot better as it would of gained more interest.

08-08-2007, 09:33 AM	#8
Kane Knight Ron Paul 4 EVA Posts: 152,467	I think darkpower may have picked one of the single worst possible examples to demonstrate.

08-08-2007, 09:36 AM	#9
Rob Part time poster Posts: 22,963	Worked shoots suck. They NEVER are done properly and thus make no money. Only thing close to being a good one was Matt Hardy and Edge.

08-08-2007, 10:40 AM	#10
KingofOldSchool ...IN HD!!!! Posts: 23,327	And they blew that one.

08-08-2007, 10:48 AM	#11
Innovator Inno Knows. Posts: 43,710	Worked shoots work once in a blue moon. Russo tried to overdo it...thing is he was playing to about 5-10% of the overall audience. Those fans would get it, the others were just confused.

08-08-2007, 01:31 PM	#13
The Mackem VG + Q&A FORUM REPRESENT Posts: 38,940	I remember when TNA used the Jeff Jarrett/Hogan storyline for a bit but then Hogan did not make a single appearance and thus TNA just pulled the whole storyline. Then the TNA guys started whinging when the fans started chanting for Hogan afterwards. Haha good times.

08-08-2007, 02:27 PM	#16
Rammsteinmad TPWW's #3 Peep Posts: 20,902	Dave Youell pretty much summed it all up. Matt Hardy calling Edge "Adam" really makes it feel more real.

08-08-2007, 02:45 PM	#17
Shisen Kopf They're eating the dogs.. Posts: 27,469

08-08-2007, 02:48 PM	#18
Stickman Stickman Posts: 15,119	Q: You know what the WWE should try again? A: Creative writing

08-08-2007, 03:48 PM	#20
Super V Member Posts: 1,055	I loved that whole thing with Russo at Bash at the Beach.

08-08-2007, 03:51 PM	#21
Super V Member Posts: 1,055	Also I never realized that Christopher Daniels was a referee.

08-08-2007, 04:02 PM	#23
Anybody Thrilla Cranky Kong Posts: 78,671	According to Bischoff's book, the lay down was supposed to lead to a big angle where Hogan left and a new champion was crowned in a tournament. After the tournament, Hogan would show up with the old belt and talk about how he was never beaten, and there'd be a match between the new champion and Hogan. It actually sounded like a decent idea, but Russo went against the entire plan and fucked everything up with his little shoot up there. Then wCw died. Why in the fuck would anybody want to try that again?

08-08-2007, 04:13 PM	#24
darkpower Why So Curious? Posts: 3,408	Actually, AOL/Time Warner killed WCW by not wanting to have anything to do with wrestling. I personally think that WCW might still be around if it wasn't for the merger and all that happening within that umbrella. Sure, Russo's say in things really didn't help matters, but it might've went into a turnaround (or worse) if AOL wasn't as squimish about wrestling as they were.

08-08-2007, 04:15 PM	#25
Anybody Thrilla Cranky Kong Posts: 78,671	Either way, the shoot didn't help anything.

08-08-2007, 04:36 PM	#27
Kane Knight Ron Paul 4 EVA Posts: 152,467	The shoot helped tank the ratings. Now, I'll DA both sides of the ratings argument, but the fact is, the show would have been far harded to kill with good ratings. AOL/TW may have killed it anyway, and we'll never know for sure, but with higher ratings it might have survived and either been picked up by another network, or continued despite their disinterest. Ratings are why WWF/E survived the PTC. It's hard to take down a show where the ratings are still strong.

08-09-2007, 06:12 AM	#28
Mr. Nerfect Posts: 61,520	Shoots can be good. Edge/Matt was good until they turned Matt into a pussy, and I quite enjoyed the promos done by Joey Styles and Paul Heyman (that RAW were Styles "quit" and the original One Night Stand, respectively) quite a fair bit. I think wrestlers' personal lives could be used a bit more than what they are, and guys should be allowed to cut their own promos, but I think a "worked shoot" should avoid exposing all the secrets of the company.

08-10-2007, 12:59 AM	#30
hitman23 Junior Member Posts: 50	I remember watching that thinking how great that was at the time. I honestly believed that was going to turn wcw around. Man what the hell was i smokin!