There really is room for an alternative in professional wrestling...

[Mr. Nerfect]

No Mercy reinforced one thing. That's the "we know what you want" policy the WWE holds. When Triple H came out and said he's what the fans want to see, despite A) Val Venis and Snitsky beating him on a recent poll, and B) the fans chanting "Y2J" noticeably, it made me sick to my stomach. It seems Vince McMahon, Triple H and the creative team live in a little bubble where their vision is the right one. They're absolutely awful at adapting.

TNA is not the answer. They are almost as bad. "Fire Russo" chants can be interpreted one way: stop with the shitty fucking ideas! I heard Dixie Carter defending Vince Russo in an article, saying he doesn't even write the things that get the "Fire Russo" chants, and I just want to slap her in the face and remind her the specifics are not what is important, but rather the fact that the fans are disgusted with what they are seeing, no matter who is writing it.

There are people that detract from them, but ROH is the closest thing to an alternative we have, just because they adapt well, and care more about what their fans think. They have been in a bit of a bubble recently, though. Sometimes ROH goes a bit weird with their booking, and puts a guy over for the hell of it. The fans want to see Chris Hero get a bigger role in the company, and that's not happening; Takeshi Morishima, as solid as he's been, was never the ROHbots' choice for ROH World Champion; and people had much higher hopes for The Age of the Fall than Jimmy Jacobs, Tyler Black, Necro Butcher & Lacey. They've been solid in their role, but people expected something bigger, I feel.

Right now, there is an opening for a company that listens to the fans. Right now, WWE and TNA remind me of a Simpsons gag. Homer is coaching Bart's football team, and Bart doesn't show up to play. Bart is obviously a shitty player, but Homer makes him the focus of the team. Nelson is the true bread-winner, and Homer turns to Nelson in the team's time of crisis. "Nelson...hand this note to the referee...we forfeit."

[Mister Sinister]

Very well put.

I actually got into an convosation today at work, since we seem to talk about it alot when we aren't dealing with customers at Gamestop, finally thing is, none of them are Cena marks, which is great, but we got on the subject of Triple H, which while I admit, he is an pretty good worker, and can sometimes give amazing to sometime shitty promos, the one dude, stated that Triple H is the best choice to lead the company, and while they may be true with all the injuries, and with him perheps being the most over star in the company that not injured, I still haven't even felt myself wanting another Triple H title run, after everything that we throught/knew was going on backstage.

But does thing really boil down to what the fans want, or what is actually best for the company, with doing what the fans want, you get mixed feelings due to so many wrestlers with existing fanbases in an company, it may not be best for the company..

While on the other hand, the best move may of been to use Triple H, granted WWE had an great chance to bring Jericho out tonight, and in a way, I was disapointed in him not showing up, I feel that it was best for us not to blow our loads all over it, which we would do anyways regardless, but Jericho facing Orton may of not been the best move, and wouldn't of been what was best for the company, but then again it doesn't give the fans what they want to see. The WWE took what they throught was the lesser of the two evils, and it was the wrong choice, even thru I've been dying for another Orton title run since his move to Smackdown a few years ago.

TNA has an goldmine that they are sitting on, and can't even seem to realize it, they are like the 14 year old kid, who got like 20 minutes before his parents come home, so he get's on the internet, and blows his load instantly looking at an low grade porn site...This reminds me of TNA...The TNA writers, whoever is doing the booking is that kid, who just randomly picks the first thing they sees, and premature blows there load on it, and then randomly clicking on another link, a couple of hours later and doing the same thing, there is no eye for what is good, and what is utter garbage.

Like I said TNA has an gold mine of talent that they are not even really even remotely using to 5 percent of there potential.

ROH I can't even touch much on, since I have been out of the loot with them for awhile, and I will agree, I think Chris Hero does deserve an main event role, because he seemingly has that potential to help them raise up to an new level, nothing against the likes of Brian Danielson, who is an amazing worker ("who I know is no longer champion) didn't really have that marketbility to help push them, but I agree with you noid, that out of the three, they seem to have something that the others do not...

Logic.

[Dave Youell]

Dude, let the Val Venis thing go, he wasn’t going to main event a PPV, I’m sorry for your loss.

This whole thing was put together last minute, the overall goal was the get Orton over a champ, he was going to do it against Cena, weather it be last night or at the next PPV, it was pretty obvious that they were going in that direction.

Now who was the hottest face they had? HHH

If they brought in Y2J just to job to Orton, how would that of looked? Terrible! Totally squashes your new investment

If you want to get your heel champ over, have him beat your current top face, and realistically on that night it was HHH. The job Orton did at the start of the night didn’t really hurt him as it was a roll up, which is a classic way of keeping your heel over, as he was out smarted, but not beaten.

HHH did a good sell job to Orton later in the night, and they had to still make him look strong (HHH) to keep his own heat. Given the events of the past week, I think they did a good job with the scenario

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Dave Youell Dude, let the Val Venis thing go, he wasn’t going to main event a PPV, I’m sorry for your loss. This whole thing was put together last minute, the overall goal was the get Orton over a champ, he was going to do it against Cena, weather it be last night or at the next PPV, it was pretty obvious that they were going in that direction. Now who was the hottest face they had? HHH If they brought in Y2J just to job to Orton, how would that of looked? Terrible! Totally squashes your new investment If you want to get your heel champ over, have him beat your current top face, and realistically on that night it was HHH. The job Orton did at the start of the night didn’t really hurt him as it was a roll up, which is a classic way of keeping your heel over, as he was out smarted, but not beaten. HHH did a good sell job to Orton later in the night, and they had to still make him look strong (HHH) to keep his own heat. Given the events of the past week, I think they did a good job with the scenario

I'm not bitter about the Val Venis thing. The most I could hope for is that he gets to go over Santino Marella on RAW, or something. This scenario was just screaming for something more exciting that Triple Z. The beginning of the evening was done horribly. I know I am meant to be optimistic and all, but it just made no sense.

First of all, Randy Orton being announced the WWE Champion really made no sense. He injured John Cena in an illegal manner, and gets named the WWE Champion? It's a huge let down for anyone who tuned in wanting to see a WWE Champion decided.

The opening match made no sense. Triple H made fun of Vince and gets rewarded? They had about 6 days to come up with something, and that was all they could do? The school boy pin didn't really protect Randy Orton, either. School boys work well for fluke wins, but this clearly wasn't put over as a fluke win. It was Triple H going over cleanly, and it didn't completely bury Orton, but it made him out to look inferior to Triple H. It make Triple H look smarter, stronger, and overall better. A Pedigree would have done exactly the same thing.

The latter booking of Triple H made more sense. Vince forcing him through the marathon of Umaga and Randy Orton. It was a creative way at getting everything they advertised in, and it made Triple H look good. Randy Orton winning back the WWE Championship at the end was wise, too. Triple H retaining would have made no sense, as Umaga and Carlito could have been sent out by Vince to beat down Triple H and hold Orton up.

What I disagree most with is their decision to not care about disappointing. Triple H was not the saviour the WWE wanted to see. They wanted Jericho. I think they would have preferred a Hardy over Triple H. This was their chance to make a star, but instead they used an established guy, which makes sense, but it is a lot more boring.

I also disagree that they were taking the WWE Championship off John Cena at No Mercy. A lot of people seem to think that was the path they were going to take, but I judging by how Randy Orton won the Unforgiven match, and got to go over John Cena pretty strong throughout the feud, I'm sure it was leading to John Cena standing tall and retaining his title like Superman. They were going to continue the program heading into Cyber Sunday, and I think they would have had Randy Orton go over there, if anywhere. They might have even gone straight into John Cena vs. Triple H for the WWE Championship, and never had Orton so much as touch the belt.

[Dave Youell]

Oh it’s on now!

I hoped this day would never come, Optimist Vs Optimist. FIGHT!

First of all, Randy Orton being announced the WWE Champion really made no sense. He injured John Cena in an illegal manner, and gets named the WWE Champion? It's a huge let down for anyone who tuned in wanting to see a WWE Champion decided.

He was the number 1 contender and therefore would be the next in line for the title, plus Vince is an asshole and therefore can do whatever he wants because it’s his company. And we did get a proper match and the title decided at the end of the night

The opening match made no sense. Triple H made fun of Vince and gets rewarded? They had about 6 days to come up with something, and that was all they could do? The school boy pin didn't really protect Randy Orton, either. School boys work well for fluke wins, but this clearly wasn't put over as a fluke win. It was Triple H going over cleanly, and it didn't completely bury Orton, but it made him out to look inferior to Triple H. It make Triple H look smarter, stronger, and overall better. A Pedigree would have done exactly the same thing.

A roll up doesn’t make him look stronger, it’s a roll up for god sake, it’s just quick thinking after a mistake by Orton, it made the crowd hot all night. And there was no way they were going to finish with the prison match, so you had to know something else was coming

The latter booking of Triple H made more sense. Vince forcing him through the marathon of Umaga and Randy Orton. It was a creative way at getting everything they advertised in, and it made Triple H look good. Randy Orton winning back the WWE Championship at the end was wise, too. Triple H retaining would have made no sense, as Umaga and Carlito could have been sent out by Vince to beat down Triple H and hold Orton up.

Umaga and Carlito were not needed as the purpose of this match was to get Orton over as a legit champ instead of a guy who was given a belt, HHH did was all faces do in these matches and that’s keep going until you have nothing left, thus making both strong

What I disagree most with is their decision to not care about disappointing. Triple H was not the saviour the WWE wanted to see. They wanted Jericho. I think they would have preferred a Hardy over Triple H. This was their chance to make a star, but instead they used an established guy, which makes sense, but it is a lot more boring.

Orton was going to go over in the end, whoever they brought out to make a star was going to have to lose, therefore not making anyone, except for Orton

I also disagree that they were taking the WWE Championship off John Cena at No Mercy. A lot of people seem to think that was the path they were going to take, but I judging by how Randy Orton won the Unforgiven match, and got to go over John Cena pretty strong throughout the feud, I'm sure it was leading to John Cena standing tall and retaining his title like Superman. They were going to continue the program heading into Cyber Sunday, and I think they would have had Randy Orton go over there, if anywhere. They might have even gone straight into John Cena vs. Triple H for the WWE Championship, and never had Orton so much as touch the belt.

So they brought there plans forward for the Orton win, they had to, if they wanted HHH to run with the title they would of kept it on him, right now I think we can expect a HHH/Vince feud as planned, heck they night even still use Kennedy in the same role, just not as his son. Orton needs a new opponent from tonight onwards, there’s a lack of top level faces right now, so whoever it is it’s going to be a short lived feud until Jericho comes in, at Cyber Sunday I guess now.

What happens form there onwards is anyones guess

[KingofOldSchool]

Do you realize that Val Venis "winning" that poll was the work of about 200 yardtards voting for him over and over again?

Yeah.

[Dave Youell]

Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool Do you realize that Val Venis "winning" that poll was the work of about 200 yardtards voting for him over and over again? Yeah.

Shhh now, don't tell him that!


Santa is real ok?

Love you Alienoid

[Evil Vito]

Plus if Val was on the PPV he probably would have jobbed in about 10 seconds.

[BigDaddyCool]

1) Fuck Val Venis, there is only one person in the whole universe that likes him, and that is you.

2) Seriously, there is no one else in the entire WWE locker room that can filled void left by Cena other than HHH or Orton. Yes, shitty booking brought us to that, but they have to work with what they had at the time.

3) We all know TNA sucks.

4) Every point that you do make that is true, is also painfully obvious. Thank you for telling us what we already knew. You truely are amazing.

[IC Champion]

Wrestling sucks in general currently.

[Hanso Amore]

Part of good booking is being able to cover for things like this, your main star going down before a big show. Being able to adapt and give the fans what they want to make up for it. Paul Heyman was the best at this. Alot of advertised ECW main events didnt happen at normal shows, but Paul made sure fans left happy. He would book a surprise, or a match that aybe was set for a bigger stage then they were at, just to make sure the fans went home happy.

Alot of people paid alot of money to see Cena vs Orton, and if they cant get that, the WWE had to give them the only thing they want that could make up for it, HHH. They also had to make sure it didnt hurt either character. I think they could have doen it better, but worse jobs have been done.

[redoneja]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool 1) Fuck Val Venis, there is only one person in the whole universe that likes him, and that is you. 2) Seriously, there is no one else in the entire WWE locker room that can filled void left by Cena other than HHH or Orton. Yes, shitty booking brought us to that, but they have to work with what they had at the time. 3) We all know TNA sucks. 4) Every point that you do make that is true, is also painfully obvious. Thank you for telling us what we already knew. You truely are amazing.

5) ROH isn't that great of an alternative either.

[BigDaddyCool]

Originally Posted by MatthewAllenHanso Part of good booking is being able to cover for things like this, your main star going down before a big show. Being able to adapt and give the fans what they want to make up for it. Paul Heyman was the best at this. Alot of advertised ECW main events didnt happen at normal shows, but Paul made sure fans left happy. He would book a surprise, or a match that aybe was set for a bigger stage then they were at, just to make sure the fans went home happy. Alot of people paid alot of money to see Cena vs Orton, and if they cant get that, the WWE had to give them the only thing they want that could make up for it, HHH. They also had to make sure it didnt hurt either character. I think they could have doen it better, but worse jobs have been done.

Yeah, but Paul Heyman is out of business.

[BigDaddyCool]

Originally Posted by redoneja 5) ROH isn't that great of an alternative either.

Never said it was. And didn't mean to agree with 'Noid on the point either. RoH is a distant 3rd at best. It is a local promotion, that just has the smallest of footholds to get nation distribution of tapes. It needs a lot of work before it can be in running.

[redoneja]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool Never said it was. And didn't mean to agree with 'Noid on the point either. RoH is a distant 3rd at best. It is a local promotion, that just has the smallest of footholds to get nation distribution of tapes. It needs a lot of work before it can be in running.

Wasn't trying to say you did. I just agreed with the first four points and added one more.

[BigDaddyCool]

Oh, well then you are correct. RoH is way to small to be anything.

[BigDaddyCool]

I mean they might be an alternative in New York, but not on a national or even regional level.

[St. Jimmy]

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[What Would Kevin Do?]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool Never said it was. And didn't mean to agree with 'Noid on the point either. RoH is a distant 3rd at best. It is a local promotion, that just has the smallest of footholds to get nation distribution of tapes. It needs a lot of work before it can be in running.

They've run shows in New York, PA, NJ,Hartford, St. Paul, Boston, Detroit, Cleveland, Dayton, Chicago, the UK and Japan. That's all within the past year. They're going to be running a show in Vegas soon, and are going to have a large present at Wrestlefest in san Fran coming up.

They have a ppv deal, a strong working relationship with NOAH (the 2nd biggest company in Japan right now), and Dragongate, and have also worked with AJPW in the past. Many ROH wrestlers are touring with NOAH as well. It pretty much has it's own farm league in FIP as well.

Say what you will about ROH, but I think you're going to have a hard time convincing people who actually know what they're talking about that ROH is "A local fed that has the smallest of footholds." It's not mainstream, but it's definitely risen above indy level, and like it or not, it is the number 3 company in America right now, both in reach, and in profit.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Also, like it or not, ROH is probably the only alternative you're going to get for a long time. TNA is too busy trying to be similar (but slightly different) to WWE so they can compete. No other company is going to gain major exposure anytime soon, outside of ROH. If they did, it would be Chikara, or maybe PWG, and if you don't like ROH, you'll probably like them less.

I'm not trying so say "OMG, ROH IS GOING TO BEAT TNA!" blah blah blah, but outside of WWE and TNA, ROH is in the best posistion a wrestling company has been in. It's not even 6 years old and it's already done alot.

[BigDaddyCool]

Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do? Say what you will about ROH, but I think you're going to have a hard time convincing people who actually know what they're talking about that ROH is "A local fed that has the smallest of footholds." It's not mainstream, but it's definitely risen above indy level, and like it or not, it is the number 3 company in America right now, both in reach, and in profit.

Yeah, I'll have a hard time convincing those 5 people of anything, but the rest of the nation still has no idea what an roh is. Don't take it personal, but RoH is still a local fed. They are still an indy promotion. Once they start producing live ppv we will talk. But right now they really are a distant 3rd place behind TNA and WWE in terms of size. Now in terms of quality, they could be better, but that is down to personal taste (that being said, it wouldn't be hard to make a better product than either WWE or TNA right now).

I would love to see some hard number to prove RoH's size as compared to WWE or TNA. And I'm still waitting for those tapes to see what kind of product they actaully produce. I honstely am not trying to knock RoH, but anyone who thinks they are on the verge of breaking into the "Big Three" is not thinking right. There isn't even a big 2. TNA is still reginional in terms of size and tour capibilities. There is no promotion that even reaches WWE's level right now.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool There isn't even a big 2.

That sums things up pretty well about the level of competition among wrestling promotions. There is just the Big One, and that is it. TNA is the medium one. ROH is just the biggest indy fed.

Say there's a pond, and there is three kinds of fish in the pond. One of them is a shark, one of them is a goldfish, and the rest are just a bunch of guppies. The shark is obviously WWE, the goldfish is obviously TNA, and ROH is just the fattest guppy. But, still a guppy nonetheless.

[IC Champion]

I will refer to RoH fans as "Guppies" from this day forward.

[BigDaddyCool]

Well, I would say TNA is more of catfish sized while RoH is more of a coy, but that is just splitting hairs.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Please explain to me how ROH is a local fed? How can someone be a local fed when they're on ppv, hit as many markets as they do, and travel overseas? Indy, yes, local, no. Treating ROH like a small local PA company is crazy.

[Destor]

Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do? Please explain to me how ROH is a local fed? How can someone be a local fed when they're on ppv, hit as many markets as they do, and travel overseas? Indy, yes, local, no. Treating ROH like a small local PA company is crazy.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Dave Youell He was the number 1 contender and therefore would be the next in line for the title, plus Vince is an asshole and therefore can do whatever he wants because it’s his company. And we did get a proper match and the title decided at the end of the night

That's true, but I think most people were expecting some kind of match to decide the WWE Champion. Just having a guy suddenly come out as WWE Champion, regardless of what happened afterwards, deflates some sails a little bit.

Originally Posted by Dave Youell A roll up doesn’t make him look stronger, it’s a roll up for god sake, it’s just quick thinking after a mistake by Orton, it made the crowd hot all night. And there was no way they were going to finish with the prison match, so you had to know something else was coming

I wasn't against the Last Man Standing match. The roll-up didn't protect Orton. It made him look clumsy, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Dave Youell Umaga and Carlito were not needed as the purpose of this match was to get Orton over as a legit champ instead of a guy who was given a belt, HHH did was all faces do in these matches and that’s keep going until you have nothing left, thus making both strong

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Umaga and Carlito were not needed, I'm just saying that it would have made no sense for Triple H to win the Last Man Standing match. It's good that he didn't, and that Orton did it cleanly was a good move.

Originally Posted by Dave Youell Orton was going to go over in the end, whoever they brought out to make a star was going to have to lose, therefore not making anyone, except for Orton

My point is that it shouldn't be Orton getting put over in the end.

Originally Posted by Dave Youell So they brought there plans forward for the Orton win, they had to, if they wanted HHH to run with the title they would of kept it on him, right now I think we can expect a HHH/Vince feud as planned, heck they night even still use Kennedy in the same role, just not as his son. Orton needs a new opponent from tonight onwards, there’s a lack of top level faces right now, so whoever it is it’s going to be a short lived feud until Jericho comes in, at Cyber Sunday I guess now. What happens form there onwards is anyones guess

Nah, it will be Triple H chasing Orton heading into Cyber Sunday. I think that much is actually confirmed by the WWE.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool Do you realize that Val Venis "winning" that poll was the work of about 200 yardtards voting for him over and over again? Yeah.

Um, obviously.

Also, LOL at people making this about Val Venis. This isn't about my love for the most underrated man on the WWE roster, but rather my distaste for Triple Z, the boring and the ignorant attitude the WWE has towards its fans. It seems all the WWE hears are the wet screams of their female fanbase for John Cena, and block out the boos. It seems the WWE is still convinced that Triple H is the most popular entity in sports entertainment.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool 1) Fuck Val Venis, there is only one person in the whole universe that likes him, and that is you. 2) Seriously, there is no one else in the entire WWE locker room that can filled void left by Cena other than HHH or Orton. Yes, shitty booking brought us to that, but they have to work with what they had at the time. 3) We all know TNA sucks. 4) Every point that you do make that is true, is also painfully obvious. Thank you for telling us what we already knew. You truely are amazing.

1) Well I voted for him once, so there must be at least someone else.

2) The Undertaker, as much as I am bored by him, would have done better than Triple H. Chris Jericho would have done better. Anyone can be made into a main eventer in this business (theoretically). It didn't have to be Triple H or Randy Orton unless you are retard.

3) Boogen could save TNA, couldn't he?

4) Of course it's painfully obvious, that was kind of the point of pointing out how oblivious the WWE and TNA are to their fanbases. They identify the good option, then deliberately take the bad one, to the point where it is comical. That it is nothing new does not make it any less relevent.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do? and Destor Please explain to me how ROH is a local fed? How can someone be a local fed when they're on ppv, hit as many markets as they do, and travel overseas? Indy, yes, local, no. Treating ROH like a small local PA company is crazy.

[KingofOldSchool]

Originally Posted by Alienoid06 Um, obviously. Also, LOL at people making this about Val Venis. This isn't about my love for the most underrated man on the WWE roster, but rather my distaste for Triple Z, the boring and the ignorant attitude the WWE has towards its fans. It seems all the WWE hears are the wet screams of their female fanbase for John Cena, and block out the boos. It seems the WWE is still convinced that Triple H is the most popular entity in sports entertainment.

It seems to me like you were making it out to be about Val Venis by saying...

Originally Posted by Alienoid06 No Mercy reinforced one thing. That's the "we know what you want" policy the WWE holds. When Triple H came out and said he's what the fans want to see, despite A) Val Venis and Snitsky beating him on a recent poll, and B) the fans chanting "Y2J" noticeably, it made me sick to my stomach. It seems Vince McMahon, Triple H and the creative team live in a little bubble where their vision is the right one. They're absolutely awful at adapting.

You made it sound like that Val and Snitsky are both herald among the online community. Let's not forget that people were knowingly going in and voting for Val and Snitsky OVER and OVER again just to lower Hunter's score.

That defeats the whole purpose of "Why aren't they giving us what they want?!?!" Hey Kennedy got a lower vote than Triple H in that poll, does that mean you people want to see less of One-Trick??

And I'm glad Vince didn't give us Jericho, cause even if he is the hype from those videos. Why the fuck do you want them to blow their load after only a couple of weeks? I mean isn't that the same kind of booking that the IWC constantly complains about?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool You made it sound like that Val and Snitsky are both herald among the online community. Let's not forget that people were knowingly going in and voting for Val and Snitsky OVER and OVER again just to lower Hunter's score. That defeats the whole purpose of "Why aren't they giving us what they want?!?!" Hey Kennedy got a lower vote than Triple H in that poll, does that mean you people want to see less of One-Trick?? And I'm glad Vince didn't give us Jericho, cause even if he is the hype from those videos. Why the fuck do you want them to blow their load after only a couple of weeks? I mean isn't that the same kind of booking that the IWC constantly complains about?

"Let's not forget that people were knowingly going in and voting for Val and Snitsky OVER and OVER again just to lower Hunter's score." - That pretty much sums it up. People wanted to lower Hunter's score. When you have a guy getting out-popped, out-voted and just plain out everything'd, it's just defiant to present him as the most popular guy in the world, and being what the fans want to see.

Also, bringing in Jericho at No Mercy would have been fine with me. It's how they bring him in, not when. There's only so much more they can do with cryptic videos.

[KingofOldSchool]

Originally Posted by Alienoid06 "Let's not forget that people were knowingly going in and voting for Val and Snitsky OVER and OVER again just to lower Hunter's score." - That pretty much sums it up. People wanted to lower Hunter's score. When you have a guy getting out-popped, out-voted and just plain out everything'd, it's just defiant to present him as the most popular guy in the world, and being what the fans want to see.

Once again you're missing the point. It was the same, SMALL select group of people doing it. And I'm talking like the smallest percentage of fans. Once Triple H gets Rob Conway pops, then we'll talk. I mean afterall, look at all of those people who got less votes than Triple H. What does that say about them? If they gave what the "fans" really "wanted" then Snitsky or Val would've won the title. And you know what the crowd reaction would be?

DEAD FUCKING SILENCE.

Now I don't agree with them hotshotting the title three times last night, but it was a helluva lot better than a Snitsky/Orton/Venis main event. Even though that's obviously is what the fans wanted.

Also, bringing in Jericho at No Mercy would have been fine with me. It's how they bring him in, not when. There's only so much more they can do with cryptic videos.

Yes they can, they can change up the videos like they are doing. They can interrupt matches and promos with the video. They can drop subtle hints throughout the programs.

This adds some sort of drama to the shows, it gets people talking since no one knows who exactly it is.

[Johnny Vegas]

I love how KoOS hasn't responded to WWKD/Destor's quotes yet lol

I think we all can pretty much agree that the WWE is in the shape it's in now because they made Cena "Superman". He squashed/defeated any credible opponents that, if given the chance, could've had better tv than him (Carlito, Kennedy, Michaels pre-injury, CM Punk, etc.) SOMEWHERE between that loooong reign, they could have made him heel, crown a new champ, and/or put Cena in interesting fueds WITHOUT the title. I honestly think that the WWE doesn't know how the fans will take Cena as a face without the title. Like, he HAS to be champ or he is worthless which is not the case.

We'll see where this ends up, but the question is when will HHH become champ? We know this is going to happen, period. It had better not be WrestleMania, because that would not only be obvious, but just retarded. If he has the title going in to WM, then w/e, but he doesn't need to become champ there.

HHH is the "better" choice from a drawing standpoint, and if he gets injured again before Cena returns, THIS WILL BE THE WWE PROGRAMMING I WANT TO WATCH.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

KoOS never said anything about ROH being a local fed in the first place. That was BDC. I'm pretty sure KoOS doesn't share that thought... I could be wrong, but hey.

[BigDaddyCool]

How can I call RoH a local indy fed in PA? How can it be anything but. Show me some numbers that prove they are as big as you claim they are. They do ppv, but they are taped. I wonder how the sales are in reference to distant from Pennsylvania. Just because they do business with something called Dragon Gate proves little to nothing.

Also, what exactly would you describe the size of RoH as?

[sugar butt]

What the hell is ROH???? I've never heard of such a thing.....I think I just proved BDC's point.

[JT]

I would do nothing more than to argue with BDC with ROH, but there is little to really fight against him with ROH is really a small fed, but just with a larger fan base than more other promotions. I would call it the modern ECW...a fairly small, yet popular fed climbing in the ranks because of entertain, exciting shows.

I never heard of ECW till they got the TNN deal, and I lived in NJ. ROH is probably the same, where they won't get any recognition past internet and local fans till they get a real tv deal too.

So agreeing for the most part with BDC...but placing on a more positive light.

[JT]

Edit: Sorry...computer wasn't reloaded

Double Post

[JT]

Same thing here...got this shit sucks