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Old 11-04-2007, 12:11 PM   #1
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Something I've always wondered about Soma Joe...
Everyone who likes him seems to use his size as his biggest positive factor. The fact that he doesn't move like Mark Henry or Viscera while still being big is enough to make him good or whatever...and yet, Triple H is only 10 lbs lighter than him, and I don't think anyone has ever said "Triple H is good because he can really move for a guy his size." The Rock was only 5 lbs lighter than Joe (though I admit he was 2 inches taller).

Viscera on the other hand is 215 lbs more than Joe. Henry is 120 lbs heavier. No offense, but I would expect a guy at 280 to move like Rock and Hunter...comparing him to "Big men" is kind of misleading since size was he is MUCH MUCH MUCH closer to Rock and Hunter than Vis and Henry. So, why are people so amazed he can run the ropes pretty fast for a guy his size?

Quote:
Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do? View Post
I would have no problem with HBK getting a farewell run with the title before he retires.

With that said though, there is no belt in the industry that HBK could win that would add to his career. HBK's career is built around him being HBK, not winning a bunch of titles.
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:12 PM   #2
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He LOOKS bigger then he is I guess. I mean would you have guessed him at 5 pounds off The Rock? I would not have.
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:14 PM   #3
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Joe's shorter and has a build more similar to Taz so he appears a lot bigger.
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:16 PM   #4
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Because Joe's just fat. Meanwhile the Rock and HHH were muscle.

Maybe it's harder to shift around useless flab compared the muscle
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126
Joe's shorter and has a build more similar to Taz so he appears a lot bigger.
Joe is 6'3"!!! That's not short! Taz was 5'9".
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:28 PM   #6
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And for what it's worth, Tazz being a half a foot shorter than Joe, was only about 40 lbs lighter than him. I don't recall anyone's reason for liking Taz that he could really move around a ring despite his size.
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:30 PM   #7
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I thought Joe was shorter than that, wow, lol.
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:38 PM   #8
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It's relative. Most of the guys he has worked in his career have been at least 30lbs lighter and a few inches smaller than he is, so compared to them, yeah he is pretty big. I don't know if I would call that his biggest positive though. That's like saying Nash is great because he's tall...
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:44 PM   #9
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MMM, the point I was going for is the first thing most fans of Joe say when I ask them why he's good is that he can really move for a guy his size. I could go back and find about a dozen examples if you'd like...
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:47 PM   #10
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He moves like a man ten pounds lighter!
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Old 11-04-2007, 01:54 PM   #11
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Joe is the best. He is going to be the bread and butter of TNA. You are just a hater.

But the thing I hate is how Joe is constley called a big man. But he is only like 280 lbs 6'2", which is big for a nomral person, but about normal for a wrestler worth a damn and tiny for a Samoan. And as soon as the is pointed out, he is compared to Taz, which pisses me off because Taz is so much better than joe in every respect. So basically Joe either needs to gain some wieght or get in shape or something, not this kinda chubby bullshit. That and joe is awful.
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Old 11-04-2007, 01:58 PM   #12
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Joe is looking worse and worse shape wise. But bleh.

Anyway, for his size, he does move well. Yeah, he's only so much heavier than The Rock, and HHH, but for the most part, he moves "quicker" than them. I don't see other people his size busting out a lot of Elbow Suicidas, jumping enziguris, etc. He also used to do a decent hurracurranna, but I think he's gotten far to big for that now.

Anyway, I'm going to go with it's becase he moves quicker than he looks like he should. He looks like a tubby blob right now, but he can still bust out a quick jumping enziguri, suicide dive, etc.

In regards to HHH and the Rock, they're probably "faster" than Joe, but Joe busts out moves that smaller people usually do. Take the ROck for example. He has his own pace. But back in the day, he'd bust out that little spin around DDT, and it looked really fast and crisp, faster and crisper than you would expect from someone his size. Not sure if you get what I'm saying or not, but I tried.
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Old 11-04-2007, 02:01 PM   #13
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Old 11-04-2007, 02:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
Joe is the best. He is going to be the bread and butter of TNA. You are just a hater.

But the thing I hate is how Joe is constley called a big man. But he is only like 280 lbs 6'2", which is big for a nomral person, but about normal for a wrestler worth a damn and tiny for a Samoan. And as soon as the is pointed out, he is compared to Taz, which pisses me off because Taz is so much better than joe in every respect. So basically Joe either needs to gain some wieght or get in shape or something, not this kinda chubby bullshit. That and joe is awful.
Spot on with the Taz comment.

Joe USED to be a big man, mainly because he was bigger than the people around him. On the indy scene, guys are usually much smaller, so when you have a guy who is his size, he is a big man, compared to who he's fighting.

In TNA, he's working with bigger guys, so he's not really a big man anymore, but now he's just a average tubby guy. It looks like he/s trying to put on more weight, but he's doing it without toning up/building more muscle, so he/s just looking fatter.
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Old 11-04-2007, 02:04 PM   #15
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Oh, I know he was literally a big guy in the indy scene but that doesn't count.
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Old 11-04-2007, 02:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
Joe is the best. He is going to be the bread and butter of TNA. You are just a hater.

But the thing I hate is how Joe is constley called a big man. But he is only like 280 lbs 6'2", which is big for a nomral person, but about normal for a wrestler worth a damn and tiny for a Samoan. And as soon as the is pointed out, he is compared to Taz, which pisses me off because Taz is so much better than joe in every respect. So basically Joe either needs to gain some wieght or get in shape or something, not this kinda chubby bullshit. That and joe is awful.
Jesus Christ. If Joe's a Big Man, I'm gonna be TNA's next Andre the Giant. I've already started practiving by wiping my ass on hotel curtains.
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Old 11-04-2007, 02:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do?
Spot on with the Taz comment.

Joe USED to be a big man, mainly because he was bigger than the people around him. On the indy scene, guys are usually much smaller, so when you have a guy who is his size, he is a big man, compared to who he's fighting.

In TNA, he's working with bigger guys, so he's not really a big man anymore, but now he's just a average tubby guy. It looks like he/s trying to put on more weight, but he's doing it without toning up/building more muscle, so he/s just looking fatter.
On the flip side, guys his size in the indies aren't so move-limited as their hoss cousins, either. I mean, I know WWE's restrictions on size are bullshit because I trained with a nearly 7 foot tall guy who could do airfalls, but in the rest of wrestling, you don't marvel at a big guy doing a heel kick.

Or at east, you shouldn't. You see these guys pull off bigger and faster moves frequently, so again, Joe shouldn't particularly be special for that.
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Old 11-04-2007, 02:16 PM   #18
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Old 11-04-2007, 02:24 PM   #19
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Old 11-04-2007, 03:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126
Joe's shorter and has a build more similar to Taz so he appears a lot bigger.
Soma Joe should never be compared to Taz is Any way, shape, or form. Ever.
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Old 11-04-2007, 03:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do?
Joe is looking worse and worse shape wise. But bleh.

Anyway, for his size, he does move well. Yeah, he's only so much heavier than The Rock, and HHH, but for the most part, he moves "quicker" than them. I don't see other people his size busting out a lot of Elbow Suicidas, jumping enziguris, etc. He also used to do a decent hurracurranna, but I think he's gotten far to big for that now.

Anyway, I'm going to go with it's becase he moves quicker than he looks like he should. He looks like a tubby blob right now, but he can still bust out a quick jumping enziguri, suicide dive, etc.

In regards to HHH and the Rock, they're probably "faster" than Joe, but Joe busts out moves that smaller people usually do. Take the ROck for example. He has his own pace. But back in the day, he'd bust out that little spin around DDT, and it looked really fast and crisp, faster and crisper than you would expect from someone his size. Not sure if you get what I'm saying or not, but I tried.


Triple H and The Rock, while not small guys, never really did anything too athletic. I mean, Triple H has some great matches behind him, but when was the last time you saw him do a dive to the outside of the ring that sent AJ Styles flying across the floor?

It's not so much Samoa Joe's literal size, anyway. It's more how he uses it, and how it plays into his charisma, and yes, Joe does have charisma. There wouldn't be so much love for the guy if he didn't. The real motivation behind the "Joe is big" argument, is more like "Joe's going to kill you." Guys often give up a lot of size to him, and he's much closer to them in speed and athletic ability than they are to him in power.
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Old 11-04-2007, 05:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
MMM, the point I was going for is the first thing most fans of Joe say when I ask them why he's good is that he can really move for a guy his size. I could go back and find about a dozen examples if you'd like...
Yeah sorry I misread. Pretty much already been answered, I guess. I dunno, he does have pretty good agility (not *that* good, but better than you would imagine) but I think it's more along the lines of the fact that he doesn't have a typical 'big man' offence - because he isn't one - so for some of the stuff he does the fact that he can shift fairly fast helps give the appearance of a lot of force behind them. I think? Never really been something I thought about.
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Old 11-04-2007, 05:33 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06


Triple H and The Rock, while not small guys, never really did anything too athletic. I mean, Triple H has some great matches behind him, but when was the last time you saw him do a dive to the outside of the ring that sent AJ Styles flying across the floor?

It's not so much Samoa Joe's literal size, anyway. It's more how he uses it, and how it plays into his charisma, and yes, Joe does have charisma. There wouldn't be so much love for the guy if he didn't. The real motivation behind the "Joe is big" argument, is more like "Joe's going to kill you." Guys often give up a lot of size to him, and he's much closer to them in speed and athletic ability than they are to him in power.
Who didn't see alienoid coming so Joe's rescue?
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Old 11-04-2007, 05:37 PM   #24
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Can't stand Joe anymore. At all.
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Old 11-04-2007, 06:38 PM   #25
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It's kind of like watching Chris Farley do stunts on SNL and then saying he's a good athlete.

Still, I like Joe and his character (or at least the last time I really watched TNA), but I see your point.
Last edited by JT; 11-04-2007 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 11-04-2007, 06:49 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
Who didn't see alienoid coming so Joe's rescue?
I stopped trying to predict carnies years ago.
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Old 11-04-2007, 06:54 PM   #27
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Anyone who uses Joe's size (i.e. "he's fast for a big man!") as his primary focus for being a good wrestler is an idiot.

It's like liking the old Kane better than new Kane because he had a mask. It's a factor; but it's not a REAL reason to like him.


Bottom line, Samoa Joe looks like a guy (body-type wise) that would NEVER be successful in pro wrestling (a Mick Foley of sorts), and yet he is, because he's entertaining as hell to watch.
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Old 11-05-2007, 01:27 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Anyone who uses Joe's size (i.e. "he's fast for a big man!") as his primary focus for being a good wrestler is an idiot.

It's like liking the old Kane better than new Kane because he had a mask. It's a factor; but it's not a REAL reason to like him.


Bottom line, Samoa Joe looks like a guy (body-type wise) that would NEVER be successful in pro wrestling (a Mick Foley of sorts), and yet he is, because he's entertaining as hell to watch.
Yeah, I think that's the size issue.
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Old 11-05-2007, 01:30 AM   #29
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*ahem*
Fuck Soma Joe.






























































That is all.
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Old 11-05-2007, 10:51 AM   #30
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The only argument fanboys have about Samoa Joe is pretty much "He's awesome... for a fat Samoan guy."

So Joe > Yokozuna > Rikishi. Pretty small totem pole.
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Old 11-05-2007, 07:28 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Anyone who uses Joe's size (i.e. "he's fast for a big man!") as his primary focus for being a good wrestler is an idiot.

It's like liking the old Kane better than new Kane because he had a mask. It's a factor; but it's not a REAL reason to like him.


Bottom line, Samoa Joe looks like a guy (body-type wise) that would NEVER be successful in pro wrestling (a Mick Foley of sorts), and yet he is, because he's entertaining as hell to watch.
Makes me think of Umaga/Jamal.

Maybe not Samoan but a big guy that can move... bigger than Joe yet has speed and agility. So... yeah the whole "he's fast for a big man" is just an idiotic thing...

Yeah the whole comparison with Triple H and Rock doesn't exactly fit but compare him to Umaga and well... the only difference is Umaga is restricted but as Jamal you saw him move around the ring, doing all sorts of stuff... so what's really so different?

Umaga/Jamal is more entertaining than Soma Joe.
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Old 11-05-2007, 07:37 PM   #32
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Samoa Joesph really really does piss me off lately, I never minded him before. But it's the opposite with Umanga. I used to hate him, but now I don't mind him and have more respect for his work now than ever before. But he drew a short straw thanks to the 'roids cos he's just gonna get fed to Trips now. No chance is he coming off this fued as the man.
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Old 11-05-2007, 07:37 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
Everyone who likes him seems to use his size as his biggest positive factor. The fact that he doesn't move like Mark Henry or Viscera while still being big is enough to make him good or whatever...and yet, Triple H is only 10 lbs lighter than him, and I don't think anyone has ever said "Triple H is good because he can really move for a guy his size." The Rock was only 5 lbs lighter than Joe (though I admit he was 2 inches taller).

Viscera on the other hand is 215 lbs more than Joe. Henry is 120 lbs heavier. No offense, but I would expect a guy at 280 to move like Rock and Hunter...comparing him to "Big men" is kind of misleading since size was he is MUCH MUCH MUCH closer to Rock and Hunter than Vis and Henry. So, why are people so amazed he can run the ropes pretty fast for a guy his size?
Triple H and The Rock, while close to Joe in weight, both have an athletic, muscular build. Samoa Joe has a very...blubery build. So I think the 'amazing' factor Joe brings to the table (for some people) is that while you look at Trips and Rock and expect them to move well, you look at fatty Joe and expect him to move with all the grace of a walrus.
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Old 11-06-2007, 04:03 PM   #34
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On a totally unrelated topic I would just like to point out that Samoa Joe would not have to put any serious effort into becoming an Elvis impersonator, should the desire ever take him.
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Old 11-06-2007, 10:06 PM   #35
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That'll be his WWE gimmick when he gets sick of TNA. They'll re-sign the Honky Tonk Man and he'll they'll call him "Honky Tonk Joe" to which people will still chant "JOE IS GONNA BORE YOU!!!!"
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Old 11-06-2007, 10:32 PM   #36
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I'm amazed that a big guy can be that boring.

I mean, pound for pound, he may be the most boring guy in pro wrestling. That's pretty awesome.
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:08 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
I'm amazed that a big guy can be that boring.

I mean, pound for pound, he may be the most boring guy in pro wrestling. That's pretty awesome.
Nope Collie wins that, maybe even Snitsky
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:52 PM   #38
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Snitsky by a long shot.
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