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Old 12-14-2007, 11:59 PM   #1
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Technical wrestlers in the WWE
I remember when I first started watching the WWE, everyone was in love with Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho. OK, that is a bit of a generalisation, but those men were highly respected (and should still be) for their technical prowess in the ring. You'd also have guys like Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko, Lance Storm and Perry Saturn hanging about. They're just examples. Looking at the WWE today, you have a lot of guys who can work the technical style, but how many of them actually have credibility?

Chris Jericho and Finlay would have to be the top two. Triple H and Shawn Michaels are great wrestlers, but I'm not sure if I'd categorise them as being "technical" guys. Triple H mixes in a lot of brawling, and HBK is just...HBK. The WWE still has William Regal, albeit he's in a non-wrestling role, and Shelton Benjamin is once again getting a bit of a push. How long will that last, though? MVP can work the technical style, but he's more of a "personality" still, at this stage. It feels like he is still growing to some. The only other guy of note I can think of is Jamie Noble, who has been on a bit of a roll. Part of me thinks the lack of technical guys getting used might be why.

There are a lot of guys who can work the style, but don't because they're too busy getting pushed as power guys. John Cena can carry a tune in the ring, and Bobby Lashley has that amateur background. Rob Conway used to be a great wrestler, kind of a cross between Chris Benoit and Shawn Michaels in styles, but in the WWE he playing a guy who was obsessed with his muscular development.

I'm not complaining with this post, by the way, I'm just interested in discussing what happened to that particular wrestler that you knew could carry a pudding to a great match? I guess one answer is that they all got broken necks, or murdered their families, or whatever, but I really have to ask:

1) Do you think the WWE seems importance in technical guys? Is that why Jamie Noble is getting used a bit more? Is that why Finlay is getting a bit of a push?

2) You talk about guys being the next Rock or Austin in terms of their potential importance to the WWE, but who are the next Kurt Angles, Chris Benoits, Eddie Guerreros and Chris Jerichos? Are there any?

3) Wouldn't it be fucking awesome if Dean Malenko came out of retirement?

Pfft
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:07 AM   #2
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IF dean malenko came out of retirement I'd mark out so hard.
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:26 AM   #3
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I zoned out about halfway through, but let me make the point that most, if not all of those guys were highly respected because they came from somewhere else. They were able to actually shine in their respective environments and were well known. Contrast that with the people coming in now, and the closest you have to that is TNA, and almost nobody watches TNA. Beyond that, yeah, you have RoH and a bunch of other promotions that get progressively smaller. Even ECW had some impact on things, and allowed wrestlers to shine in less orthodox matches.

Compare that to guys where the first place most people have seen them IS WWE, and so they don't know them for a different style, and WWE doesn't really give a lot of room. Certainly not to shine. I mean, Jericho's up there because he's a showman. Michaels, because he's a showman, technical or not. Cena, who's got solid technical skills? Showman. Angle? Showman. Eddie? Showman. Even Shelton is, to an extent. He's not quite the guy who's got mic skills, but he displays showmanship in his matches.

WWE places high value on showmanship over substance. I mean, if a guy's a great wrestler as well, okay, but they're not going out of their way for the technical shit.
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Old 12-15-2007, 09:39 AM   #4
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1. I think WWE keeps a few guys around just to alter the matches, I really like the style to watch, the chain wrestling (rarely seen in WWE anymore) was always a favorite of mine.

2. There is no next Kurt Angle or Chris Jericho yet as we still have both of them around. I know what you are asking but I honestly feel it depends on where wrestling goes over the next few years. If TNA gets bigger and starts to compete with WWE then I think that Vince will use everything at his power to regain control, including getting the old school back in. I partly think that the problem WWE had in 01/02 is that to get bigger than the spots we were seeing, would likely kill someone or permanently retire them. We saw Foley off the top and through the cage, Shane went off the top of the Backlash set, The Hardy's, Dudleys, E&C, had done some amazing spots in various matches, Shane / Angle KOTR with the glass spots, the list goes on and I know I will have missed a lot out.

In a way, when Vince bought out the competition, I think he watered it down so that when they get into trouble a la another monday night wars, the big spots will seem big again.

3. Fuck Yeah!!!, the match they showed on the Benoit tribute Raw with Benoit vs Dean Malenko was the goods.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06 View Post

1) Do you think the WWE seems importance in technical guys? Is that why Jamie Noble is getting used a bit more? Is that why Finlay is getting a bit of a push?

2) You talk about guys being the next Rock or Austin in terms of their potential importance to the WWE, but who are the next Kurt Angles, Chris Benoits, Eddie Guerreros and Chris Jerichos? Are there any?

3) Wouldn't it be fucking awesome if Dean Malenko came out of retirement?

1) I don't think it has anything to do with them being 'technical' wrestlers as it does with WWE thinking that the programs these guys are in will get them over with the fans or whatever.

2) I'm sure there will be some, but not too many wrestlers come from their backgrounds. Beniot, Guerrero, and Jericho all spent time in Japan, Mexico, and Canada where the styles are different than the traditional American style. Guys nowadays are mainly coming up from US Independents and don't spend as much time overseas.

3) Sure


I'm also going to agree with KK about WWE prefering a "showman" style (which is what I consider the American style of professional wrestling) over any other style.


Back to your original post Alienoid, I wouldn't consider Jericho or Jamie Noble as technicians really. Sure, they use some unorthodox moves (relative to the rest of the roster) and more submissions but IMO Jericho still falls under the American style and Noble fits more a junior style that you see in some American Indys and Japanese promotions such as New Japan and Michinoku Pro. The only two guys I can think of that really fit the bill for following a 'technical' style in WWE are Regal and Finlay.

Outside of WWE, off the top of my head, the only true technical guy I can think of is Bryan Danielson. I'm sure there is more but I just can't think of any.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:28 PM   #6
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:29 PM   #7
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I'm sorry, must have dozed off on my keyboard for a moment there.

Good luck with the thread, I'll be somewhere around.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:30 PM   #8
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Gonna pretty much agree with Jeritron as well.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:30 PM   #9
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His first post that it.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:31 PM   #10
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It's not as much a wise crack as it is that I saw the name Rob Conway somehere in there and slipped into a coma
Last edited by Jeritron; 12-15-2007 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:32 PM   #11
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It's not as much a wise crack as it is that I saw the name Alienoid06 and slipped into a REM cycle
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:34 PM   #12
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It's not as much a wise crack as it is that I saw the name Benoit somehere in there and climbed onto a bowflex
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:36 PM   #13
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It's not as much a wise crack as it is that I saw the name Pat Patterson somehere in there and slipped into something more comfortable
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:37 PM   #14
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Yea, I totally missed that Conway reference. *shudder*


Anywho, I dunno Alienoid maybe your definition of the 'technical' style is a bit broad and maybe mine is a bit narrow. But definitely not Rob Conway.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:48 PM   #15
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Isn't one of the new SVR "fighting styles" Technical, BTW?

Just funny that they're adding shit to video games that they're all but stripping out of the business....
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:50 PM   #16
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Also, Conway strikes me as "Technical" only in the sense that I dont'know where else I'd put him.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Also, Conway strikes me as "Technical" only in the sense that I dont'know where else I'd put him.
Heat or Velocity would be just fine, or a dark match. If not, TNA or a local 711 would do just fine.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:56 PM   #18
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I'd put him in the American style. But again, I really beginning to think that my definition of the technical style is relatively limited.
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Old 12-16-2007, 12:01 AM   #19
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Quote:
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Heat or Velocity would be just fine, or a dark match. If not, TNA or a local 711 would do just fine.
You know the difference between TNA and a 7-11?

No 7-11 would hire Scott Hall.
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Old 12-16-2007, 02:32 AM   #20
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1. No. Current writers don't give half a shit about booking and don't give a quarter shit about writing a match. I think I see where you're going, but it's not based upon ring ability.

2. There's a shit-load already. For one: Shelton Benjamin.

3. Yes.
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Old 12-16-2007, 03:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Yea, I totally missed that Conway reference. *shudder*


Anywho, I dunno Alienoid maybe your definition of the 'technical' style is a bit broad and maybe mine is a bit narrow. But definitely not Rob Conway.
I am going broader with my definition of technical. Chris Jericho is a bit outside the technical box, to be honest. I mean, great wrestler, but much like Shawn Michaels, he's a bit more than a technical wrestler. He can bust out some sweet moves, but I'd agree that he doesn't quite sit in the criteria.

Jamie Noble I'd definitely consider a technical guy. He can work the junior style, but a lot of his independent stuff proved that he's more than capable of the mat-based stuff you'd expect out of a guy trained by Dean Malenko.

And I'd definitely consider Rob Conway a technical wrestler. A lot of you shit on him, but that's pretty much my point. A guy like Conway really showed off some great mat skills in OVW, and then he gets called up to advertise himself as 98% fat free. The WWE has shown very little of what Conway can do. Back in the day, even if a guy was not going to get pushed for his technical abilities, he'd at least be able to show them off.

I want to see guys like Rob Conway, Doug Basham and Nick Dinsmore go to Japan, or something. Those three are honestly the best wrestlers from a technical standpoint to come from OVW. Some time in Japan could help them mix those skills with some striking and more interesting moves. You do have a lot of other guys from OVW who manage to surpass them in other areas (someone like Johnny Jeter, for example, would surpass them as far as his aerial skill goes).

There are still some great technical wrestlers around. Doug Williams is a damn good European wrestler, Brent Albright is a beast in the ring (I fully expect the WWE to sign him back one day, probably when his ROH contract expires), and Bryan Danielson is a damn fine wrestler, even if you do find him bland. I don't know, it just feels like if we were still in the Attitude era, those men would be fighting over the IC and US Titles on each of the brands.

I guess I just long for the glory days.
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Old 12-16-2007, 03:59 AM   #22
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Quote:
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1. No. Current writers don't give half a shit about booking and don't give a quarter shit about writing a match. I think I see where you're going, but it's not based upon ring ability.

2. There's a shit-load already. For one: Shelton Benjamin.

3. Yes.
Shelton Benjamin is someone I would class as a technical guy. The WWE did their best to ruin him for a while. It seems they are trying to get him on track, though. I'm not sure if I trust the WWE, however.
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Old 12-16-2007, 09:45 AM   #23
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Shelton Benjamin is someone I would class as a technical guy. The WWE did their best to ruin him for a while. It seems they are trying to get him on track, though. I'm not sure if I trust the WWE, however.

Shelton's screwed himself enough with botched moves and shit, I'm not sure if WWE's really to blame. Shit like Mama Benjamin was bad, but so's his tendency to choke, both in ring and on mic.
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Old 12-16-2007, 10:40 AM   #24
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You need solid guys in the ring to help get over the personalties. They can lead them to great matches.

That is why Finlay is so important. He raises match quality bye a whole star just by being there. He can doo all the things to help the weaker guys get by un-noticed.
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Old 12-16-2007, 01:23 PM   #25
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Nark Order makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Nark Order makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Nark Order makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Nark Order makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Nark Order makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Nark Order makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Nark Order makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Nark Order makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Nark Order makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Nark Order makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Nark Order makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Nark Order makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Nark Order makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
I don't really view Finlay as being technical all that much tbh. He can be, as he knows every hold known to man but he's really been booked as just an innovative, sneaky, wise, smash mouth, 'do whatever it takes', brawling badass.
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Old 12-16-2007, 01:45 PM   #26
Indifferent Clox
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Indifferent Clox should probably be bannedIndifferent Clox should probably be bannedIndifferent Clox should probably be bannedIndifferent Clox should probably be bannedIndifferent Clox should probably be bannedIndifferent Clox should probably be bannedIndifferent Clox should probably be bannedIndifferent Clox should probably be bannedIndifferent Clox should probably be bannedIndifferent Clox should probably be bannedIndifferent Clox should probably be banned
If you saw Joe v. Kenta that's the ultimate showman match.
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Old 12-16-2007, 02:46 PM   #27
Fox
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Fox has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fox has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fox has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fox has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fox has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fox has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fox has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fox has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fox has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fox has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)
MVP and Shelton Benjamin are both excellent technicians. CM Punk can wrestle great technical when he wants to, but that's simply because of his incredible psychology.

The day of the technical wrestler in the WWE is dying. They're far more focused on big men and a showier, flashier style of wrestling, promising big spots and familiar moves over technically sound mat wrestling.

TNA really is the place to get your fill of technical wrestling if you can't watch ROH. Christopher Daniels, Alex Shelley and obviously Kurt Angle are all incredible technical wrestlers and Shelley pretty much always puts on a mat-showing in his matches.
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Old 12-16-2007, 03:21 PM   #28
St. Jimmy
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St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
Triple H
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