Overall, is it better for WWE to acknowledge promotions like TNA, ROH, WCW and ECW?

[Xero]

Is it better, from WWE's perspective, to allow for acknowledgment of other promotions or just suppress them?

On one side, it would be giving free advertising to that promotion - whether it be positive or negative (IE: The WCW Invasion).

On the other, it allows them to note, for instance, that so-and-so has held this-and-that title, allowing them to build them up from another angle.

I do understand why WWE does it, but when someone has held a major title - for example, someone from TNA comes in and was a former TNA/NWA world champion - and they just entirely dismiss it despite a good number of fans having knowledge of it insults the fans' intelligence. Plus it doesn't give them the chance for more of a build. Of course, if they're going to repackage this wrestler this would be moot.

And on a similar not, would it be better for WWE if they allowed other promotions to use their footage on a limited basis if it meant being able to use that promotion's footage to promote the debut and other things for a wrestler?

[Jordan]

Personally I really wish they would acknowledge other promotions, but it really doesn't make sense for them to do so. It's just not going to happen with TNA though.

[Kane Knight]

Yes, but they won't. I think it actually benefits everyone, but I don't think Vince wants that.

[Outsider]

It would help legitimise stars starting with the WWE. Instead of bringing them in as relative unknowns they could draw upon their experience. The WWE also forgets that if they take action to put other companies over then when their stars sign with WWE, they aren't gonna be unknowns and people will be desperate to see them.

What WWE should be attempting to do is create working relationships with every other company they can. What would be most harmful for the WWE would be TNA gaining enough of a following to take even a small amount of ratings away if they did decide to go for a slot at the same time as RAW or Smackdown. If WWE gives support, such as loaning wrestlers which they are not using (saving WWE money in that superstars wages) or whatever, then it would be impossible for that company to attempt to challenge their dominance without costing themselves support.

But Vince does not believe in any company having any worth in wrestling other than WWE. It will ultimately suffocate the industry they created.

[Kane Knight]

Outsider, what you suggested cuold actually be considered a violation of Trademark in the US. Not that it's not a decent idea, but they'd be walking a fine line using it as a starting point.

[Outsider]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Outsider, what you suggested cuold actually be considered a violation of Trademark in the US. Not that it's not a decent idea, but they'd be walking a fine line using it as a starting point.

No expert in trademark law, but surely the WWE could choose not to take action over another company using a trademark if they didn't want to?

[Fox]

I really think that the WWE is missing in this area of their product.

Just look at how well UFC does this. If they hadn't put the hype machine behind it, they could've promoted Liddell vs. Silva as "just another guy for our Iceman to run through," but instead they built up how much of a killer and dominant fighter Silva was, who had spent the last 5 years outside of UFC. And it only made the build up and the match itself that much more epic.

If Christopher Daniels showed up in the WWE next month, they would give him a gimmick (maybe even let him keep the "Fallen Angel" gimmick) and pretend he was fresh out of training. They would never acknowledge is ROH career, his TNA Tag Title reigns, his X-Title reigns, or any of the great matches he's had. He'd just be "another guy," when most fans know that he's far from just another guy.

Do I think the WWE will ever change this? No. But that's just Vince's ego.

[Kane Knight]

You can build a guy up without mentioning other promotions in the same field, really.

[Fox]

Oh, absolutely. The build up for Mankind back in the mid-90's is a perfect example of this. They didn't talk about Cactus Jack or his Japanese Death Matches, or barbed wire or ECW; they built a new character.

Was that beneficial for Foley's career? Absolutely. Could it have been a train wreck and should they have maybe banked on bringing him in as Cactus Jack, talking up his past in Japan, ECW, and WCW? It's hard to say in hindsight with how successful Mankind ended up being.

[FourFifty]

For some people it would work, for others it wouldn't. Mention how CM Punk was the ROH champion when WWE was signing him, if they ever get any major star from TNA who wasn't in WWE before (unless it's Kurt or Christian) they can use that, etc etc.
However, I'm glad when HHH debuted no one mentioned Terra Ryzing.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I really don't think the WWE mentions other companies enough. I get that they don't want to advertise them, but there is the whole competition and feeding the industry thing as benefits. It's understandable that the WWE chooses not to see these, but what about successfully promoting your talent, though?

For example, if Ron Killings returns to the WWE, it would be foolish for them not to point out that he is a former two-time NWA World Heavyweight Champion and two-time NWA World Tag Team Champion, at least. I also think it would help Jamie Noble a lot if he were recognised as a former ROH World Champion. It makes Noble look more accomplished, and it makes the ROH World Title looks like it equates to a mid-card belt. The exchange rate, if you will, would actually help promote the WWE, in some situations.

I think the WWE should really use a wrestler's past in WWE developmental to help get them over, as well. CM Punk being recognised as an OVW Triple Crown Champion, as well as being a former ROH World Champion? It would help pad out his WWE resume, at least. Cody Rhodes is a former OVW Heavyweight Champion, two-time OVW Southern Tag Team Champion and OVW Television Champion, also making him a Triple Crown Winner. DH Smith was the first-ever FCW Southern Heavyweight Championship. These kind of things would really help younger talent get over.

Watching Chris Jericho's debut with the WWE in 1999, it's a but odd to see the WWE not act like Jericho was a complete stranger. Granted, they were different times, but the WWE should try bringing in a guy with fanfare for a change (which I guess is why the WWE has a lot of promos and vignettes air for new guys these days). To be honest, I don't think that method is nearly as effective.

[Kane Knight]

Not the diplomatic relationship portion. Any such agreement would likely include specifically enumerated rights.

But otherwise, building on other people's franchises puts them in bad shape.

On the other hand, they have a working relationship with people other than TNA and RoH. I mean, they've got OVW, which has only been mentioned on TV once TMK, and several "feeder" promotions, so they could do it with certain talent without worrying about the "competition," either.

[Savio]

I think it'd be safe for them to use ROH footage to promote a wrestler since that is not on TV. But I don't believe they should mention TNA to "Keep them contained" if fans know of an alternative they might got to it.

Probably why Monty Brown "had no past experience"

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Savior I think it'd be safe for them to use ROH footage to promote a wrestler since that is not on TV. But I don't believe they should mention TNA to "Keep them contained" if fans know of an alternative they might got to it. Probably why Monty Brown "had no past experience"

To be fair, every fan probably knows about TNA. It's just that they've decided the steaming pile of shit they know is better than the one they don't.

[Savio]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight To be fair, every fan probably knows about TNA.

Every fan? I dunno, maybe. but if you show highlights of a Daniels TNA match it might make viewers want to watch TNA.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Savior Every fan? I dunno, maybe. but if you show highlights of a Daniels TNA match it might make viewers want to watch TNA.

I doubt the WWE can legally show footage of a WWE wrestler in TNA. I'm not sure TNA would let them even if the WWE asked nicely, with a cheque extended.

I think it is most likely that ROH gets acknowledged by the WWE. The WWE is probably way too stubborn, but I can see them sort of working out an agreement like WWE and the ECW of old. Instead of a talent exchange, though, there would just be ROH footage used to market some guys. What would ROH get out of it? More people knowing that they exist.

I think it is silly that the WWE does not acknowledge OVW. They have dug up an OVW match for a recent John Cena DVD, though.

[Savio]

Originally Posted by Alienoid06 I think it is silly that the WWE does not acknowledge OVW. They have dug up an OVW match for a recent John Cena DVD, though.

They do sometimes but not very much.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Savior Every fan? I dunno, maybe. but if you show highlights of a Daniels TNA match it might make viewers want to watch TNA.

If they're showing TNA highlights on WWE TV, there are bigger problems than the one you're angling at.

[BigDaddyCool]

They already rarely acknowledge other companies, but only when talking about Lawler's titles.

But Vince is all about "homegrown" talent.

But anyhow, right now it would really hurt WWE if they mentioned CM Punk was a RoH champion or something like that. I'm not really sure it would help WWE either.

[.44 Magdalene]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Marquis Cor Von yet

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by The Critic I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Marquis Cor Von yet

Who?

[St. Jimmy]

The only person who benefits from the mentions would be the metioned companies. WWE doesn't care about them, and wants to see them fail.

The only psuedo-compitition they have is TNA. They could mention ROH all day, but until they get a legit TV deal - it wouldn't matter.

[Outsider]

Originally Posted by St. Jimmy The only person who benefits from the mentions would be the metioned companies. WWE doesn't care about them, and wants to see them fail.

No, WWE would benefit from increased interest in other companies as it would increase interest in wrestling generally, which is at a low at the moment. (Vote Democrat.)

But of course, Vince doesn't understand the concept of health competition.........

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Outsider No, WWE would benefit from increased interest in other companies as it would increase interest in wrestling generally, which is at a low at the moment. (Vote Democrat.) But of course, Vince doesn't understand the concept of health competition.........

And evidently, neither does Jimmy.

It doesn't just benefit the competition, though. And it doesn't just benefit WWE through competition.

Even if they treated the "other guy" as a minor promotion, it gives depth to the field. Often times, they act as though someone's fresh off the turnip truck, and I think that hurts a lot of talent which could benefit.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight And evidently, neither does Jimmy. It doesn't just benefit the competition, though. And it doesn't just benefit WWE through competition. Even if they treated the "other guy" as a minor promotion, it gives depth to the field. Often times, they act as though someone's fresh off the turnip truck, and I think that hurts a lot of talent which could benefit.

Thank you! This is a concept that I've been trying to express but haven't really found the words. Your first sentence in your last paragraph, I mean.

Take Jamie Noble for instance: The guy is a former ROH World Champion. Now, sure, the WWE probably doesn't want to say "go watch Ring of Honor," but saying that Noble is a former ROH World Champion makes him look more accomplished, and it makes ROH look minor league. A WWE mid-carder (at best) was their World Champion. Putting that on a scale, it makes Noble look good, and it puts ROH in its place.

Now, saying that CM Punk is a former ROH World Champion might be a bit more risky, because the WWE is trying to pass Punk off as a main eventer. It could be done, though. Just make it sound like Punk won the ROH Title early in his career, which was a good stepping stone to getting him scouted by the WWE. Then you can mention him winning the Triple Crown down in OVW. It makes Punk look experienced enough to the point where it does not look like the ECW Championship is on a "rookie" and his first title win.

When Ron Killings comes in, the WWE would be foolish not to pimp him out as a former two-time NWA Champion and two-time NWA Tag Team Champion. They don't need to advertise TNA, but the NWA name itself still carries some sort of prestige. It's pretty much needed, or else it's going to look like K-Kwik's back to job.

It also just generally works to promote guys. Take Paul London & Brian Kendrick. While I'm not sure the WWE would ever work out a deal to show ROH footage on their show, acknowledging the success runs and cult following London & Kendrick developed while competing in Ring of Honor and over in Japan would do a lot of good for them. I believe Kendrick has actually held a handful of titles in Japan. Acknowledge them, and it'll make Kendrick look like a little more than a goof who has only held two Tag Titles, one of which wasn't even televised.

[Jeritron]

People know anyways, at least they used to.
They haven't mentioned TNA because thats not helping anyone but TNA. How's that lend credibility to the wrestler coming to WWE? And who the hell has even come to WWE from TNA of any signicance?
On the other side of things, it certainly helps TNA to refer to Angle and Booker T's previous accomplishments.
But why would WWE care if Monty Brown kept his name or not? It's not really helping him, they can't act like everyone knows who he is and build him to come in well known and make a splash because realistically thats not true. They're better off starting from scratch because only 10% of fans probably recognize him. If you go "Thats Monty Brown!!!" when he makes his debut run in, people are gonna say wtf, who?

In the old days, it mattered.
When Jericho and Big Show debuted, they never said "they're here from WCW" but they didn't build them up from scratch. They were debuted by suprise under the understanding that everyone, or most of their fans knew them. They made them fresh and changed their gimmicks slightly, but they didn't act like it was a "new" wrestler. They flashed Jerichos name up there before they showed him knowing it would speak for itself, and Michael Cole yelled "THATS PAUL WIGHT" when Big Show came through the ring, instead of yelling "WHO IS THAT? LOOK AT THE SIZE OF HIM"

Also, when the radicals showed up they had them sitting in the front row like fans and Road Dogg recognized them acknowledging them. Then they fought for contracts and WCW was referred to.
Same was done on for WWE wrestlers entering WCW, even more intensely but overall not as well.

[Kane Knight]

So if "people know," isn't it more harm than good, as it already damages the rather tenuous believability?

[The Gold Standard]

I feel it would be bad for WWE but good for the fans.

WWE does not want to promote other promotions because they do not want to lose their fans.

For the fans, if they acknowledge another company it may turn into another WWE/WCW thing and we may get the best out of both companies.

[The Lone Wolf]

Originally Posted by The Gold Standard I feel it would be bad for WWE but good for the fans. WWE does not want to promote other promotions because they do not want to lose their fans. For the fans, if they acknowledge another company it may turn into another WWE/WCW thing and we may get the best out of both companies.

I agree with you completely. The only way i could see it helping the wwe is if they were to acknowledge the other companies without promoting their product to help better their own product.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by The Gold Standard I feel it would be bad for WWE but good for the fans. WWE does not want to promote other promotions because they do not want to lose their fans. For the fans, if they acknowledge another company it may turn into another WWE/WCW thing and we may get the best out of both companies.

The problem being that they view it as potentially losing fans. How many people do you think watch TNA exclusively? It's not an either-or deal for most people, unless, like WCW, they're on in competing time slots. Especially with shows like Ring of Honor, which doesn't even have a television deal nationally.

So where are these lost fans going? I mean, it seems they're more likely to lose fans for their shitty wrestling than it is they'll lose fans to shows that aren't on TV or are on other nights. Fuck, I'd think TNA's ratings would actually bolster that belief--People will pick WWE.