TPWW Forums  

Go Back   TPWW Forums > w r e s t l i n g > wrestling forum
Reload this Page TNA's creative issues
Register Members List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-14-2008, 10:42 PM   #1
NeanderCarl
That's Not My Name
 
NeanderCarl's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,086
NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
TNA's creative issues
To those who keep knocking TNA for allowing Vince Russo to write their show, I have to ask... who else is there??

Yeah, Russo is clueless to how the wrestling business is supposed to work, but he is still an ideas man. Amongst the crap and bad comedy, he books otherwise good wrestling storylines, except he books them like he is on speed, and TNA is on fast forward.

But if not him, then who?

Jim Cornette can talk the talk, but when he actually had his own promotion he booked it into the ground, had no idea how to cater to the modern wrestling fan, and happily allowed ricockulous gimmicks like Prince Kharis The Egyptian Mummy to feature on his shows.

On the other hand, Paul Heyman knows how to create a realistic product that is different, which is what TNA needs... but beyond fleshing out characters (which is actually a Russo strength too) and storylines, Heyman is another guy who obviously can create a product that appeals to a niche audience but not a mass one, as he too saw his own promotion perish.

Heyman and Cornette are so often touted as wrestling geniuses, but if either of them had been able to tap into the collective viewing desires of mainstream wrestling fans (the same mainstream wrestling fans TNA so desperately need to grab the attention of) then their own companies would have been met with more success.

Now, I'm expecting a barrage of support for both men here, but please don't used the tired "they couldn't compete financially/bigger companies kept stealing their talent" excuses, because real "wrestling geniuses" would have overcome this by creating a product which had mass appeal, which sold out progressively larger buildings, giving them more money in the coiffers in order to hold onto this talent which abandoned those sinking ships in droves.

So, anyway... yes, unedited, Russo is not the answer to TNA's problems... but if not him, then who??
NeanderCarl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2008, 04:29 AM   #2
Xerzes
Robo Speedly Force
 
Xerzes's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,003
Xerzes has a great deal of rep (15,000+)Xerzes has a great deal of rep (15,000+)Xerzes has a great deal of rep (15,000+)Xerzes has a great deal of rep (15,000+)Xerzes has a great deal of rep (15,000+)Xerzes has a great deal of rep (15,000+)Xerzes has a great deal of rep (15,000+)
Vince Russo is a fine booker. He just can't be left alone. He needs other people around him who are capable of telling him, from time to time, "no, you fucking moron, that's a terrible idea and kills wrestling companies." Maybe if he and Cornette could work together, instead of trying to kill each other. Hell, I'm told Mantell is booking the women's division at the moment, and that's doing well. The three of them should be enough to tell each other not to do stupid shit like Elevation X.
Xerzes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2008, 05:53 AM   #3
Sting Fan
Blander Than Ever
 
Sting Fan's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,092
Sting Fan has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Sting Fan has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Sting Fan has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Sting Fan has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Sting Fan has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Sting Fan has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Sting Fan has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Sting Fan has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Sting Fan has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Sting Fan has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)
To be honest I think every name you list there has had there time.

If someone wants to succedd and truly push the business to a new level I think it needs to be someone new and fresh.

Someone who has done the hard yards in the business, not necesarily a wrestler but someone who has been around it for a long time. And that same person needs to still have some grasp on the real world.

Heyman, Cornette, Russo and everyone WWE has booking for them right now are the past IMO. What wrestling needs is something new and edgy and the same old hacks arent gonna bring that too the table.
Sting Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2008, 08:35 AM   #4
Porcupine
Furry Furry Bah Gawd
 
Porcupine's Avatar
 
Posts: 421
Porcupine is "reptacular" (2,500+)Porcupine is "reptacular" (2,500+)Porcupine is "reptacular" (2,500+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting Fan View Post
What wrestling needs is something new and edgy and the same old hacks arent gonna bring that too the table.
Yes. Something new and edgy like...a PAY PER VIEW OF ALL STEEL CAGE MATCHES!
Porcupine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2008, 08:37 AM   #5
JH
A Proud MF'R
 
JH's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,429
JH is "reptacular" (2,500+)JH is "reptacular" (2,500+)JH is "reptacular" (2,500+)
i know jarrett has been through alot but he needsw to get his damn head straight and take over booking again cause at least he did know what the fans wanted cause at one time tna was red hot when he was booking everything
JH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2008, 11:58 AM   #6
Exyle
Roll +Sharp
 
Exyle's Avatar
 
Posts: 518
Exyle is a chill bro (7,500+)Exyle is a chill bro (7,500+)Exyle is a chill bro (7,500+)Exyle is a chill bro (7,500+)Exyle is a chill bro (7,500+)
They never should have let Raven go. The man has an incredible mind for the business, and could have been the best thing to ever happen to their creative team.
Exyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2008, 12:23 PM   #7
BigDaddyCool
Pelvic Sorcerer
 
BigDaddyCool's Avatar
 
Posts: 64,762
BigDaddyCool makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)BigDaddyCool makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)BigDaddyCool makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)BigDaddyCool makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)BigDaddyCool makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)BigDaddyCool makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)BigDaddyCool makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)BigDaddyCool makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)BigDaddyCool makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)BigDaddyCool makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)BigDaddyCool makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)BigDaddyCool makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)BigDaddyCool makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Raven is highly overrated. If Raven is such a booking talent, why does he alway book himself in Flock/Nest rehashes?

Heyman is actually a fairly decent choice for a booker if he is on a leash and really just booking. When he was in charge of Smackdown, it was good. They basically need a booking team that knows how a storyline and feud should work and able to see the big picture instead of just throwing out cluster-fuck after cluster-fuck and understanding that if two wrestlers are both being built in different angles, then they should just face each other arbitrarily.

Also, wrestling needs to move away from making everything a comedy act.
BigDaddyCool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2008, 04:02 PM   #8
NeanderCarl
That's Not My Name
 
NeanderCarl's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,086
NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
wrestling needs to move away from making everything a comedy act.
I blame The Rock.
NeanderCarl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2008, 04:41 PM   #9
Verbose Minch
I'ma gonna win
 
Verbose Minch's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,743
Verbose Minch is good (20,000+)Verbose Minch is good (20,000+)Verbose Minch is good (20,000+)Verbose Minch is good (20,000+)Verbose Minch is good (20,000+)Verbose Minch is good (20,000+)Verbose Minch is good (20,000+)Verbose Minch is good (20,000+)
Foley would be great. It should be Foley.
Verbose Minch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2008, 05:49 PM   #10
loopydate
FIT Challenge Slag People
 
loopydate's Avatar
 
Posts: 13,816
loopydate makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)loopydate makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)loopydate makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)loopydate makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)loopydate makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)loopydate makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)loopydate makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)loopydate makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)loopydate makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)loopydate makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)loopydate makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)loopydate makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)loopydate makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Heyman has a great mind for the product, but sucks from a businessman standpoint. Putting him with TNA's money could be just what both sides need.
loopydate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2008, 06:31 PM   #11
Mr. JL
 
Posts: 4,834
Mr. JL is good (20,000+)Mr. JL is good (20,000+)Mr. JL is good (20,000+)Mr. JL is good (20,000+)Mr. JL is good (20,000+)Mr. JL is good (20,000+)Mr. JL is good (20,000+)Mr. JL is good (20,000+)
lol, knowing TNA they'd probablly hire Heyman for the sole purpose of managing the finances
Mr. JL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2008, 11:06 PM   #12
Mr. Nerfect
 
Posts: 61,510
Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
Raven is highly overrated. If Raven is such a booking talent, why does he alway book himself in Flock/Nest rehashes?

Heyman is actually a fairly decent choice for a booker if he is on a leash and really just booking. When he was in charge of Smackdown, it was good. They basically need a booking team that knows how a storyline and feud should work and able to see the big picture instead of just throwing out cluster-fuck after cluster-fuck and understanding that if two wrestlers are both being built in different angles, then they should just face each other arbitrarily.

Also, wrestling needs to move away from making everything a comedy act.
Is he the guy who keeps doing that? I mean, he very well could be, but I don't know.

Raven is a genius when it comes to perfecting his character and when it comes to promos and psychology. I don't know if that would translate over to writing an entire show, but I think he would make a great part of a booking team. Especially if it was headed by Paul Heyman.
Mr. Nerfect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2008, 11:08 PM   #13
Mr. Nerfect
 
Posts: 61,510
Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
You can use the excuse that ECW failed, but Heyman is a great writer. When he was in charge of SmackDown!, it was the best writing the WWE had seen since the prime of their Attitude era. He should be the guy TNA gets to head their creative team.

Paul Heyman, Raven and Scott D'Amore would be the way I would go.
Mr. Nerfect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2008, 11:23 PM   #14
NeanderCarl
That's Not My Name
 
NeanderCarl's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,086
NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
I disagree. SmackDown was great during Heyman's run because of the in-ring action, not the writing. Heyman has a knack for booking great series of matches between well suited opponents. ECW proved that. He knows how to put guys together who will have great matches. But during the era of the "SmackDown Six" it was the wrestling which made SmackDown great, not the writing.

Not taking anything away from Heyman and his influence. Without him, there probably would have been no Attitude era, But he has never proven able to book a product with mass appeal, which is the antithesis of TNA's needs right now.
NeanderCarl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2008, 11:53 PM   #15
Mr. Nerfect
 
Posts: 61,510
Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeanderCarl View Post
I disagree. SmackDown was great during Heyman's run because of the in-ring action, not the writing. Heyman has a knack for booking great series of matches between well suited opponents. ECW proved that. He knows how to put guys together who will have great matches. But during the era of the "SmackDown Six" it was the wrestling which made SmackDown great, not the writing.

Not taking anything away from Heyman and his influence. Without him, there probably would have been no Attitude era, But he has never proven able to book a product with mass appeal, which is the antithesis of TNA's needs right now.
Well, my counter-argument to this would be that a wrestling product's "mass appeal" would be wrestling. People do not tune into professional wrestling if they don't want to see wrestling.

Heyman knew how to put guys in circumstances where they could do that, which is the alternative approach TNA should be going for, in my opinion.
Mr. Nerfect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2008, 12:07 AM   #16
NeanderCarl
That's Not My Name
 
NeanderCarl's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,086
NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
Paul Heyman's ECW also produced arguably the best top-to-bottom selection of varied wrestling matches of the Big Three, yet they never moved outside of the niche market. Vince McMahon became a billionaire on the understanding that most fans- the most desirable fans (ie. customers)- want an entertainment show with a wrestling backbone, rather than a pure wrestling show.

Now, it doesn't take a Paul Heyman to work out how to put two superlative workers together and let them go pedal to the metal. But it takes somebody with a finger on the pulse, an insight to the zeitgeist, to make the entertainment aspect work. Because, as a fan of workrate or not, that is where a company with high hopes needs to set its sights...

does TNA want to be the "wrestling alternative", a ROH style company popular with purists and workrate fans, but always content with a niche, minority audience? Or do they want a slice of Vince McMahon's pie? Because, try as they might, it is near impossible to ever find that balance. WCW came close to achieving it in 1996. WWE achieved it in 2000. TNA may never juggle all those balls.

If TNA wants mainstream success they need to worry less about the in-ring product, and more on creating larger than life characters and gripping storylines. I agree with everyone who has said we need a fresh vision, somebody brand new with sound knowledge of how wrestling needs to work in order to draw, but also with a bigger picture mindset. Russo, Cornette and Heyman, from a creative perspective, are all worn out and worthless in 2008.

And so that nobody thinks I am biased, save a few flashes of his obvious brilliance, so is Vince McMahon.
NeanderCarl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2008, 04:19 AM   #17
Mr. Nerfect
 
Posts: 61,510
Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
The thing about wrestling storylines, is that often the best ones come from good wrestling. TNA rushes their wrestlers, and their stories actually get in the way of the action in the ring.

Their main events are clusterfucks, usually because of the story. And TNA has this story going on with Kurt Angle, and it takes time that could go towards giving guys more time in the ring to get them over, and to effectively tell their stories.
Mr. Nerfect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2008, 04:23 AM   #18
El Fangel
ELF ANGEL
 
El Fangel's Avatar
 
Posts: 39,476
El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)El Fangel makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
TNA's Creative Issues + 1 = Rhiannons Relationship Issues.
El Fangel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2008, 05:21 AM   #19
Londoner
One Of A Kind
 
Londoner's Avatar
 
Posts: 22,178
Londoner puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Londoner puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Londoner puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Londoner puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Londoner puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Londoner puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Londoner puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Londoner puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Londoner puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
TNAs only creative issue is that they dunno what creative means.
Londoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:26 PM.

Forums Home - TPWW - Archive - Top

Powered by vBulletin®