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Old 08-11-2008, 01:12 AM   #1
Ultimo Tiger
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:20 AM   #2
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Some of these ar epretty whack yeah. Some...


AAA / CMLL:

- Rey Mysterio Jr.-Not in 96, not ever.
- Psicosis- No. Just no.
- Casas- Even steven.
- Santo- No
- Dandy- No
- Juventud Guerrera- Never in his wildest dreams.
- Fuerza Guerrera- No
- Blue Panther- no
- Apollo Dantes- no
- Silver King- no
- Felino- no
- Bestia Salvaje- no
- Atlantis- no
- Volador- no
- Lizmark- no
- Dos Caras- Not in 96 no.
- Cicloncito Ramirez- no
- Damiancito El Guerrero- no

WWF / WCW / ECW:

- Austin- no
- Bret Hart- Even
- Benoit- yes
- Eddy Guerrero- not in 96
- Malenko- yes
- Finlay- in my opinion, but I'm a mark for him
- Regal- no
- Foley- hell no
- Scorpio- even
- Steve Williams- no
- Vader- by a mile better than HBM
- Dan Kroffat- no

All Japan / New Japan:

- Misawa- yes
- Kawada- yes
- Kobashi- yes
- Taue- no
- Akiyama- Fuck yes
- Hashimoto- no
- Liger- ...tough to say, gonna go with even
- Ohtani- no
- Kanemoto- even
- Ultimo Dragon- yes

AJW / JWP / GAEA / LLPW:

- Aja Kong- no
- Hokuto- no
- Kansai- no
- Mayumi Ozaki- no


FMW / IWA / M-Pro / WAR:

- Tenryu- not in 96
- Gran Hamada- yes
- TAKA Michinoku- no
- Great Sasuke- nah
- Orihara- no
- Dick Togo-no
- Fujinami-no

UWFi / RINGS / BattlArts:

- Takada- no
- Anjoh - love the guy but come on
- Yamazaki-no
- Ishikawa-no
- Ikeda-no
- Fujiwara-no
- Han-no
- Tamura-no
- Kohsaka-no
- Sano-no
- Kakihara-no
- Takayama- even-ish
- Sakuraba-nope
- Yoshihisa Yamamoto- no

*Maybe:

- Otsuka
- Heavy Metal
- Villano III
- Satanico
- Super Astro
- Solar
- Texano
- Jerry Estrada
- El Samurai
- Nagai
- Kanehara
- Toyota
- Emilio Charles Jr.
- Severn
- Jamie Dundee
- Sabu
- Sandman
- Eaton
- Dave Taylor
- Shocker
- Dr. Wagner, Jr.


No to ALL the maybes.
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:37 AM   #3
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Crap list.
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:43 AM   #4
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lol at Sandman making it to the maybe list.
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:50 AM   #5
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I just read that their reasoning was Sandman's involvement in the Raven/Dreamer feud. Still don't give a fuck.

Honestly I don't know who most of those guys are either.
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Old 08-11-2008, 02:06 AM   #6
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Wow, Ultimo Tiger, your the Kane Knight of Wrestling KO
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Old 08-11-2008, 02:08 AM   #7
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He didn't make the list FA.
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Old 08-11-2008, 02:19 AM   #8
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No owen or Pillman? wtf?
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Old 08-11-2008, 02:43 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
- Dandy- No
Who are you to doubt El Dandy?
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Old 08-11-2008, 02:48 AM   #10
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Old 08-11-2008, 02:48 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
He didn't make the list FA.
Check the websites member list, look for Ultimo Tiger.
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Old 08-11-2008, 02:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
Who are you to doubt El Dandy?
That guy is a serious professional.
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Old 08-11-2008, 02:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
Check the websites member list, look for Ultimo Tiger.
Whats your point?
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:01 AM   #14
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Why is this even a question? The fact that people are so intent on trying to convince themselves that Shawn Michaels is/never was as good as he actually was that they would try to force a list of 50 guys better than him is pretty sad.

I'm not saying everyone needs to side with me that Shawn is the greatest wrestler of our time but if you really don't believe him to be one of the 50 best wrestlers in the business in '96, you're in denial. Plain and simple.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:05 AM   #15
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Very much agree. Don't see why someone would be hell bent on proving him to never have been any good...oh wait. ZenvWo...nevermind...
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:09 AM   #16
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While I'm not the biggest fan of Shawn Michaels, that list is pretty bogus. Sandman on the maybe list? That gave it right away.

Michaels may not be the best, but he is definitely up there.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:37 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
Whats your point?
He has like 6000% of the forum posts. Which I found pretty funny.

Also UT mentioned someone linked him to this, instead of saying he posted on the site it is from, which I found to be pretty funny too.

This whole thread is fucking funny to be honest.
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Old 08-11-2008, 06:55 AM   #18
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I agree.
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Old 08-11-2008, 07:49 AM   #19
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The list is, more or less, laughable in some places. Some people are, and some people damn good arguements can be made for. A lot of them though are just stretches, and not good ones at that.

With that said, it's not like it isn't 100% subjective anyway. Especially when it comes down to the style of wrestling, the strenghts and weaknesses of people, and just exactly what is being compared.
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Old 08-11-2008, 07:51 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do? View Post
The list is, more or less, laughable in some places. Some people are, and some people damn good arguements can be made for. A lot of them though are just stretches, and not good ones at that.

With that said, it's not like it isn't 100% subjective anyway. Especially when it comes down to the style of wrestling, the strenghts and weaknesses of people, and just exactly what is being compared.
Completely true, regardless I'm still typing this Noid post up. But none of it's debateable, every last bit of it is nothing more than personal preference. Whatever though.
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Old 08-11-2008, 07:56 AM   #21
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I think the best one is probably Steve Williams. Clearly, a superior worker than Shawn.
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Old 08-11-2008, 09:03 AM   #22
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Lucha is wildly over-rated just ftr. If I had to rate each style in the world it would come in under Memphis 101. For the record dont expect some big debate from out of this as EVERY BIT of it is personal preference. You can't really be wrong or right in these matters. also want to note I wasn't watching the WWF too much at this point as it had grown VERY stale for me. But I will say HBM was almost the only thing redeemable about the product at that point.

Anywho:

Rey- Why isn't he in the WCW/ECW category here? He spent more time in 96 working there, At the time Mysterio was making waves in a big way, bringing a style not many had seen at that point in the states. But since I had, I wasn't caught up in cruiser-fever. Rey went out and does what he always did, run spots. Sorry not impressed. Rey has never, and will never, be only the level of an HBM/Bret Hart/Dragon/etc. He doesn't have the mind for it, but to be fair, Lucha doesn't require thinking, just a good memory.

Protip: Funniest thing in the world is watching a multi-man lucha match and one of the guys forgets the next part of the spot, you'll see 6 guys standing around having no clue what to do. It's awesome.

-Psicosis: Again, spent over half of the year in the states as a curtain jerker. Actually one of my favorite Luchas. Watching him wrestle Rey was extremely enjoyable seeing him play up his (despite the fact he isn't a large man) is something that's always fun. And you have to admit the he and Rey were drawing pretty big at the time. But better workers than HBM? Not by a mile. HBM could've drawn in Mexico in 96. (To be fair the WWF brand could have, but the point is he would have be hailed as a top tier star.) Could Psicosis come here and do that? No. When you add the fact his matches had psychology it's a no brainier who I'm going to side with.

- Dandy anything after Satanico vs. El Dandy hair vs. hair in 92 wasn't worth two shits. Sorry, that was the end of prime if you ask me.

- Juventud Guerrera again spent half of the year in WCW. They need their own bracket. You have throw a shout out to the Rey/Juvi matches that year (I've heard people claim the match between them in Tiawanna of that year was one of the greatest of all time. I hunted it down probably 6 months ago and wasn't THAT impressed. Way over hyped) and his title win over El Hijo del Santo, which was probably the biggest win of his career and a good match (great for the style.) But comparing him to HBM? HBM was carrying people to good matches at that point. Juvi couldn't carry someone to save his life. And for that HBM will always be > Juvi.

- Fuerza Guerrera he spent like what? Half that decade tagging in trios? Hard to compare a tag guy to a singles guy. At least for me.

- Blue Panther- Pretty sure he was running his won company in 96...cant remember the name of it for the life of me. But I'm VERY sure he didn't go back to triple A until 97 after their rosters had been raided by WCW. And there wasn't anything memorable from that promotion. Which is why it failed so quickly. The Mexicans didn't even like it.

- Apollo Dantes- he was in a downward slump in 96 as well. HBM was on the top of his game (well, until his come back I suppose.)

- Silver King- Another guy who was tagging in 96, hard for me to make a comparison to a tag guy.

- Felino- I can't remember him doing anything of note in 96. Now I remember his run in NJPW but I'm pretty sure that was 98. SO I know he was in CMLL. SO that probably means he too was tagging with Either Blue Panther or Olympico. But still not on HBMs level.

- Bestia Salvaje he's only on this list due to his recent death. It's laughable that he would even be mentioned and belongs on the maybes. And the only reason he isn't is becuase he's foreign and less people would complain.

- Atlantis- he was tagging, I have an automatic disposition to view singles guys as superior to tags. It's a thing.

- Volador- please tell me what qualifies him to even be considered.

- Lizmark see Atlantis AND Volador.

- Dos Caras- 96 was so far past his prime it's stupid to put him on here. He was having classics in 96 the same way Hogan was.

- Cicloncito Ramirez- Damiancito El Guerrero- Bunching these two together cause if you had asked this same question about 1997 these two would be a yes for obvious reasons. You didn't and they weren't.
============================================================

Just for the record I'm not a fan of Lucha. I think it's some of the worst wrestling you'll find this side of Jack Evens (conversely I think if you remove Lucha I wouldn't have to deal with the Jack Evans' of the world [so fuck you Lucha]) I think it's shit. I'll take the hardcore style over Lucha, it's not for me. So if you ask me if a bunch of Lucha guys were better than HBK in 96? Hell. no.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:04 PM   #23
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The Vader one boggles my mind.

I loved Vader but "by a mile" better than Michaels!? The man was great but the fact that you singled him out as "by a mile" better where everyone else is just a yes for the most part makes it sound like a shock value choice. Just saying.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:38 PM   #24
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I can't speak for Destor, but I'd go as far as saying Vader was the best big man in the business, one of the, if not the biggest gaijin wrestler in Japan. Vader was what a big man wrestler should strive to be. Vader being a huge threat was no stretch of the imagination.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:51 PM   #25
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Vader was the best big man in the business. Without a doubt, IMO.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:51 PM   #26
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hbk lost his smile around 96.This list could be why.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:53 PM   #27
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Oh man that list made me laugh.

They forgot:

Shane Douglas
The Pug
Rocco Rock
Hardbody Harrison
Beau Beverly
911
Renegade
Kenny Kaos
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Old 08-11-2008, 05:22 PM   #28
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Quote:
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Very much agree. Don't see why someone would be hell bent on proving him to never have been any good...oh wait. ZenvWo...nevermind...
Yeah I didnt make the list.
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Old 08-11-2008, 05:34 PM   #29
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bret hart made the list.
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Old 08-11-2008, 05:52 PM   #30
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That he did.
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Old 08-11-2008, 06:02 PM   #31
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Juventud Guerrera is being seriously underrated here.
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Old 08-11-2008, 07:45 PM   #32
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Quote:
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what's an hbm?



does jim cornette also call luchadores, "luchas"? this happens in all forms of wrestling.



3-way classic in '96 and masterpiece against Navarro earlier this decade are available online.

you forgot santo.

run us through the shoot style guys now.
An HBM is a Heart break man.
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Old 08-12-2008, 02:00 AM   #33
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You know, if you're going to ask people to go through and justify each one, maybe you should start justifying WHY they're better than HBK. Start with the Lucha, then go onto the shooters
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Old 08-12-2008, 02:08 AM   #34
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Also, I have to agree with Destor 100% in that the majority of Lucha is unwatchable IMO. To those who like it, good for you, but I prefer a bit more psychology.
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Old 08-12-2008, 02:26 AM   #35
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How was shane douglas a better worker then HBM in 96?... or anytime for that matter
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Old 08-12-2008, 05:05 PM   #36
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Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Kapoutman got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
I think that HBK/M is an asshole (or used to be), and even I think that he was in the 50 best wrestlers in the world in 1996.
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Old 08-12-2008, 05:07 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimo Tiger View Post
hbk ' 96 - not the smartest wrestler.... below average offense... crying and bitching made it difficult to take him seriously... very good bumper, too bad a lot of the impact was taken away from the bumps thanks to his ridiculous overselling (watch the survivor series sid match for a good example). only had a few good/very good matches that year - v diesel, v foley.... exposed himself wrestling for an hour.

i don't know about sandman and sabu, but other than that the list seems fairly accurate. lack of footage may be an issue for a few wrestlers.
I don't even know where to begin.
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:59 AM   #38
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Shawn Michaels was easily top 5 in 1996. Discussion over.
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Old 08-13-2008, 12:22 PM   #39
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Nope.
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Old 08-13-2008, 05:58 PM   #40
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Not gonna get into the shoot guys as thats a whole argument about it not really being wrestling more being working mma/wrestling hybrid that I don't wann get into. (Love the stuff though.)
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