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Old 08-11-2008, 06:17 AM   #1
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Raven sues WWE; Possible major problem for WWE
How is there not a thread on this yet?

Quote:
Should WWE wrestlers be independent contractors or employees?

The following statement, buried in WWE's quarterly stock filing, could have major future ramifications.

"Levy et al. On July 24, 2008, we were served with a summons from three of our former talent purporting to be on behalf of themselves and a class of similarly situated persons. The lawsuit alleges breach of contract and unjust enrichment arising from our treating them as independent contractors rather than employees, which the plaintiffs allege is an erroneous classification. We have not formally responded to the suit but intend to deny any liability for claims asserted against us and to defend vigorously against the suit."

The Levy being mentioned here is Scott "Raven" Levy who is apparently challenging WWE's classification of wrestlers. WWE classifies its wrestlers as "independent contractors" which allows them to not have to pay benefits and do other things that they otherwise would have to do for "employees." This has been a topic that has been debated for years. Some think WWE is grievously at fault while others think they do just enough to get away with it. If the court sides with Levy, it would lead to major financial ramifications for WWE.

Credit: WrestlingObserver.com

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Old 08-11-2008, 06:23 AM   #2
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I don't know about legally, but morally I think he has a point.

Will it harm the WWE financially? Don't know. If it does. Tough. They should have done it originally.
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Old 08-11-2008, 06:31 AM   #3
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Raven is not a dude I would want suing me
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Old 08-11-2008, 07:35 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippord View Post
Raven is not a dude I would want suing me
Absolutely agree. I mean, come on. The guy's a member of Mensa. You know he never would have started this process without doing his research. If he's taken it this far, he knows he can win.
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Old 08-11-2008, 07:38 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post
I don't know about legally, but morally I think he has a point.

Will it harm the WWE financially? Don't know. If it does. Tough. They should have done it originally.
Since they were giving out a million dollars every week without trouble, i don't see how this could harm them.
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:34 AM   #6
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I imagine it would be a serious problem for them, especially if they had to backdate for everyone.
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:41 AM   #7
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So this was Raven's masterpiece?

Seriously, the dude is meant to be a genius or something. If he's hitting up the WWE for money, I think Flamingo's going to get paid.

The Raven character is pretty fucking awesome, and if it fucks up the WWE some, then you can sign me up as a mark. I'd like to see Raven open his own wrestling promotion, to be honest. Especially if Paul Heyman and Lance Storm agreed to be a part of it. Yeah, I pretty much said that just to give myself an erection. So sue me. Unless you're Raven.
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Old 08-11-2008, 09:32 AM   #8
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Nah, they are independent contractors.
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Old 08-11-2008, 09:49 AM   #9
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Anyone know how WCW did and how does TNA classify their wrestlers?
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Old 08-11-2008, 10:11 AM   #10
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Surely if they were independent contractors, they would be able to take on other contracts as well? IE Work elsewhere provided it didn't interfere with their WWE contract.
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Old 08-11-2008, 10:26 AM   #11
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Yeah, no they should be employees, probably. But WWE has an office full of accountants and lawyer, and probaby has connections while Raven is a dude.
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Old 08-11-2008, 10:36 AM   #12
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Just the phrase "independent contractor" means that they are independent of WWE; in other words, they should be allowed to work elsewhere. Having a clause that restricts them to a specific organization negates the "independent" part.
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Old 08-11-2008, 10:40 AM   #13
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Ok, but that isn't nessicarily what makes them an independent contractor.
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Old 08-11-2008, 11:11 AM   #14
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I was talking out of my ass, do ya mind?
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Old 08-11-2008, 11:16 AM   #15
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Well, if you are going to make statements like that, make sure you are right. The ability to work for the general public is just one part of being an indepedent contractor, but it isn't the overriding factor in the classifaction. In the end, it is an arbitrary desision made by the IRS. But there is a list of 15 to 20 contributing factors that go into deciding whether or not a person can be classified as an independent contractor, but the IRS can ignore all the factors and decided one way or another just because.
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Old 08-11-2008, 12:10 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exyle View Post
Absolutely agree. I mean, come on. The guy's a member of Mensa. You know he never would have started this process without doing his research. If he's taken it this far, he knows he can win.
Hasn't he failed suits against WWE before?

Being in MENSA doesn't mean you're a good lawyer. Or know shit about law. Research can only take you so far, especially if you're tackling an empire like WWE.
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Old 08-11-2008, 12:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mackem View Post
I imagine it would be a serious problem for them, especially if they had to backdate for everyone.
In all probability, if such a decision did end up against WWE, it's not going to outstrip their cash flow in any meaningful sense. Maybe they'll fire Shannon Moore four times a year instead of three, or release one fewer Cena vehicle, or--and this is my favorite--jack up prices on merch and tickets.
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Old 08-11-2008, 12:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Surely if they were independent contractors, they would be able to take on other contracts as well? IE Work elsewhere provided it didn't interfere with their WWE contract.
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Old 08-11-2008, 12:53 PM   #19
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Rammsteinmad, that still is an incorrect assumption.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:03 PM   #20
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No it isn't. Independent contractors reserve the freedom to decide where they work, who for and how long for. WWE signs guys to exclusive contracts and then tells them where tp be, what to wear in and out of the ring, etc, etc. That's an employee.

And seriously, there are lawyers lining up willing to work this case against WWE for free. WWE better hope state law is in their favour or they are gonna be majorly fucked and rightfully so.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:09 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
No it isn't. Independent contractors reserve the freedom to decide where they work, who for and how long for. WWE signs guys to exclusive contracts and then tells them where tp be, what to wear in and out of the ring, etc, etc. That's an employee.

And seriously, there are lawyers lining up willing to work this case against WWE for free. WWE better hope state law is in their favour or they are gonna be majorly fucked and rightfully so.
I'm sorry, I forgot that an Englishman knows more about American payroll issues than an American accountant. Silly me.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:12 PM   #22
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Though the wrestlers should probably be treated as employees. Mostly because WWE can fire them at will.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:16 PM   #23
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I'm sorry, I forgot that an Englishman knows more about American payroll issues than an American accountant. Silly me.
Should find a new line of work then buddy.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:16 PM   #24
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Way to burn bridges Raven.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:18 PM   #25
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You seriously think he wants to go back there?
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:18 PM   #26
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Raven wasn't going to work for WWE again anyhow.

Oh, and shut up Rob. You don't know what makes someone an indepedent contractor. No one does.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:21 PM   #27
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An independent contractor is a natural person, business or corporation which provides goods or services to another entity under terms specified in a contract or within a verbal agreement. Unlike an employee, an independent contractor does not work regularly for an employer but works as and when required, during which time she or he may be subject to the Law of Agency. Contractors often work through a limited company which they themselves own, or may work through an umbrella company.

In the United States, any company or organization engaged in a trade or business that pays more than $600 to an independent contractor in one year is required to report this to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) as well as to the contractor, using Form 1099-MISC.[1][2] This form is merely a report of monies paid; independent contractors do not have income taxes withheld from their pay as regular employees do. When computing taxable income on the federal income tax return, the independent contractor can deduct, from his gross income amount, the amount work related expenses, such as tools or safety gear needed for the work that were purchased by the contractor himself.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:27 PM   #28
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Thanks Xero, but that doesn't complete explain it. I actaully have a 20 point test laying around here somewhere to use as a guideline for seeing they are an employee or contractor.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:47 PM   #29
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Btw, if Raven does win this, this WWE will have to reclassify him, and probably all of the wrestlers as employee and then they will owe the US government all the employee taxes the wrestler's should have had withheld plus the employer's portions. This could easily bankrupt WWE. I'm not complete sure how far back the will be accountable for, off hand I would as far back as 2001. Being that the IRS only has a look back period of 7 years.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:52 PM   #30
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Also, as I just told Rob in an IM, you can have a no complete clause in a contract for an independent contractor while they work of an entity. The key detriming factor will be the control over the employee/contactor. Being that WWE trains the wrestlers, tells the wrestlers where to be, when to be there, how to wrestle the match, what they are looking for in the match, can fire wrestler for a shoddy job, and wrestling is WWE main business fuction, the wrestler are employees. Still it all comes down to the IRS wanting to follow their own guidelines.
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:06 PM   #31
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Little question for BDC: If WWE is guilty, does it can put the wrestlers in trouble with I.R.S. too???
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:14 PM   #32
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Depends if they paid their own taxes.
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:34 PM   #33
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Little question for BDC: If WWE is guilty, does it can put the wrestlers in trouble with I.R.S. too???
That isn't a proper question. But not unless it can be proven the wrestler and the company conspired to commit tax fraud. But since WWE told them this is how we opperate, the wrestlers won't be.
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:35 PM   #34
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Depends if they paid their own taxes.
No it doesn't.
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Old 08-11-2008, 07:28 PM   #35
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No it isn't. Independent contractors reserve the freedom to decide where they work, who for and how long for. WWE signs guys to exclusive contracts and then tells them where tp be, what to wear in and out of the ring, etc, etc. That's an employee.

And seriously, there are lawyers lining up willing to work this case against WWE for free. WWE better hope state law is in their favour or they are gonna be majorly fucked and rightfully so.
yep wrestlers needed a union a long time ago, they are the most screwed over sports people ever, i would love to see raven sue vince to the poor house.
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Old 08-11-2008, 07:40 PM   #36
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No it doesn't.
Explain that to me please. If they paid they own tax returns on the money they made as a self employed person, how would it matter?
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Old 08-11-2008, 07:57 PM   #37
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I'm sorry, I forgot that an Englishman knows more about American payroll issues than an American accountant. Silly me.
lol Ok BigDaddyCool. Suuuuure.
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:05 PM   #38
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That isn't a proper question. But not unless it can be proven the wrestler and the company conspired to commit tax fraud. But since WWE told them this is how we opperate, the wrestlers won't be.

I speak french so I do the best I can to do good sentence!!!

What I tried to say is: Independant contractor and employee don't pay the same amount of tax. So if WWE is found guilty, will wrestlers gonna receive money or will they have to pay???
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:36 PM   #39
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Being that it's ya know, BDC's profession, I'm just gonna go ahead and agree with him. You all may know quite a bit about this subject, but no one is going to know it as intamitely as him. Dunno why anyone is argueing with him tbh.
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Old 08-11-2008, 09:03 PM   #40
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Bein an accountant wouldn't qualify him ta know anything about employee contracts and contractors and shit a dat nature.
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