So when do you think wrestling will be cool again?

[The Naitch]

I still think the general public has a soft spot for wrestling. It's fun. The problem is that wrestling is just viewed as lame because of shoddy booking and the way some WWE personality is being portrayed (Mark Lloyd and his gay cell phone just ruins the coolness)

The thing that puzzles me is Vince knows how to make it popular, thanks do the Attitude Era, but it seems like he's not even trying. His ego gets in the way too. That aside, everything mostly lies in the booking.

I think if they bring some of the retro back (and the World Life logo ) they can make John Cena the next star to bring it mainstream a la Stone Cold. Randy Orton could be like The Rock, but something is still missing: Catchphrases! Not to say they should be Stone Cold and Rock wannabes, but the formula is there. I'm sure you all know this, so I won't go any further.

I know that wrestling is tartgeted to young kids, but if they targeted heavily toward older teens and younger adults, the young kids will eventually agree and follow along. It's hard to explain, but it's kinda like this: Kind of like looking up to your older brother when you were small. He'd go out, party, smoke weed, so most kids thought that was cool, so they tried to emulate that. Monkey see, monkey do.

Maybe Smackdown could be purely a classic show similar to the 80's. While RAW could be more in your face. Keep the scratch logo for RAW. Have the Word Life logo for Smackdown. The parent logo could be the scratch logo on top of the block W, (I think they had this for a while in 1997)


Right now it's a shade of grey. The shows are too similar, image wise.

[The Naitch]

on RAW, they can keep the tired concept of Wrestler vs. Authority Figure

but on SD, they can scrap that concept and just let the wrestlers run the show

[Kane Knight]

Vince doesn't know how to make it popular.

He got lucky with the Attitude Era. If he had real savvy, the ratings wouldn't have plummetted.

[The Naitch]

in your honest opinion, who would be the best person to run WWE? realistically.

I can picture TNA being bigger forcing the WWE to get their shit together. And if it turns out to be another "Monday Night War part 2" it can only be a good thing. The concept of two real life companies against eachother is probably what made wrestling interesting in the first place. The gimmicks and theatrics where a big reason too. Everything went downhill after X7, and now the "real life" rivalry that was WCW vs. WWE was lost and no one really cared for wrestling in general.

[Boondock Saint]

Just out of curiosity, who here would watch TNA if it was put up against RAW? Hypothetically of course.

During WCW vs. WWF, I only watched the first hour of NITRO until RAW came on. And only flipped to Nitro during RAW commercials. So as much as I like TNA (at least the last time I watched, in the summer) I would prolly still watch RAW.

[The Naitch]

I don't think Vince will ever let his power go, but when he decides to give it up, someone like Shane should fill his shoes. He's grown up in the business but most importantly, he's from a younger generation. Steph? She seems too shady right now. Point is, I'd rather have the McMahons OFF TV, running things business wise, than ON TV force feeding us their bullshit.

Bischoff could do wonders, but Vince isn't smart enough to realize that, and he ain't gonna stroke Eric's ego anytime soon. Triple H. oh god no...

[PureHatred]

The Attitude Era was popular partly because they ran "shock" storylines that hadn't been seen on wrestling before. The viewing public is numb to that now; no one watches Jerry Springer.

But what really pushed the era were the incredible personalities. HBK, Stone Cold, The Rock etc. Those stars captured the viewing audience, wrestling fan or not. WM got mainstream attention so i think wrestling has a chance to be "cool" again, fairly quickly, with the right stars at the top. But John Cena's gimmick is too corny to be a real cross-over star. And Randy Orton isn't really that great on the mic.

The only guy I see who has the potential to give the WWE that crossover appeal has been on the roster for years and has been completely misused: Chris Jericho. Awesome on the mic, great matches, and he obviously has mainstream appeal or else he wouldnt be on VH-1 and E! all the time in their "I Love the 80's" "Best of the 90's" "Best Wek Ever," etc shows.

[Kane Knight]

I'd ideally love to see NWA become big enough to give the WWE problems, but it'll never happen. It's a wet dream, onfortunately.

Who would run the WWE well? Realistically?

I don't know.

[The Naitch]

Originally Posted by Boondock Saint Just out of curiosity, who here would watch TNA if it was put up against RAW? Hypothetically of course. During WCW vs. WWF, I only watched the first hour of NITRO until RAW came on. And only flipped to Nitro during RAW commercials. So as much as I like TNA (at least the last time I watched, in the summer) I would prolly still watch RAW.

I'd watch TNA if it had primetime TV time, because an alternative to what the WWE is feeding us now would always satisfy our curiosity. If TNA was good enough, I'd watch it. Right now, they have to grab my attention. They gotta come to us, instead of us having to pay for their show.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Boondock Saint Just out of curiosity, who here would watch TNA if it was put up against RAW? Hypothetically of course. During WCW vs. WWF, I only watched the first hour of NITRO until RAW came on. And only flipped to Nitro during RAW commercials. So as much as I like TNA (at least the last time I watched, in the summer) I would prolly still watch RAW.

I usually watched WCW live and taped Raw.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by The Naitch I don't think Vince will ever let his power go, but when he decides to give it up, someone like Shane should fill his shoes. He's grown up in the business but most importantly, he's from a younger generation.

I still see some problems with him. Given his tendency to interpose himself in wrestling storylines already.

Originally Posted by Boondock Saint Just out of curiosity, who here would watch TNA if it was put up against RAW? Hypothetically of course. During WCW vs. WWF, I only watched the first hour of NITRO until RAW came on. And only flipped to Nitro during RAW commercials. So as much as I like TNA (at least the last time I watched, in the summer) I would prolly still watch RAW.

When WCW was going up aganst Raw I flipped back and forth, using the old "Last Channel" buttion, all the time. During the main events, I would flip back and forth like a mad man. It was pure crazyness back then. So I would probably do the same thing if TNA came on.

[The Naitch]

yeah I agree with the Chris Jericho thing. He had mad hopes in 2000 when he was IC Champ. I even thought he'd be bigger than The Rock. But you know Jericho was WCW talent before, and you know how Vince feels about those guys. It's most likely Vince will elevate a homegrown talent, so that in the future, critiques won't be criticizing Vince for taking his promotion to popularity again, thanks to a former WCW star.

[The CyNick]

wrestling will be "cool" again when the WWE produces that next star with mainstream appeal, ie the next Hogan, Austin or Rock. Vince doesn't know how to create those types of stars, but he does know what to do when he finds those types of stars. There is a difference.

In terms fo would I watch TNA, sure if it was good, but its not, so if it doesn't change, no I wouldn't watch it.

Originally Posted by Boondock Saint Just out of curiosity, who here would watch TNA if it was put up against RAW? Hypothetically of course. During WCW vs. WWF, I only watched the first hour of NITRO until RAW came on. And only flipped to Nitro during RAW commercials. So as much as I like TNA (at least the last time I watched, in the summer) I would prolly still watch RAW.

If it were TNA vs WWE at the same time, I would watch whichever on put on a better show the week before and tape the other one, like I did with WCW and WWF back in the day.

[The Naitch]

lol back in the day sounds so long ago, when actually it was only 1997 ish

And yes, I think John Cena's face run is getting corny and stale now. Hopefully he'll turn heel and start TALKING like a psycho white boy gangster. He could save his "raps" for face runs or else it would get old quick

[Fox]

Originally Posted by The CyNick Vince doesn't know how to create those types of stars, but he does know what to do when he finds those types of stars.

Does he really?

I am of the opinion that Vince merely got lucky. Hulk Hogan was responsible for getting himself as over as he was, and Vince would've had to have been a complete, total, and utter idiot not to push him. I give McMahon credit for pushing Austin in 1997, because most people had no idea that Steve could be that big of a star. Rock, like Hogan, also kind of made himself, and Vince would've had to be stupid not to realize his potential in 2000.

But then you have to take a look at some of the guys that McMahon has failed to capitalize on that could have been huge. Around 2001, Jericho was getting some of the biggest pops out of anyone on the roster, but McMahon let him wallow for too long in mid-card hell. Booker T was mad over last year, and had he been put over Triple H at WM XIX, things might be a helluva whole lot different today. At least we wouldnt've had to sit through HHH vs. Kevin Nash and HHH vs. Goldberg. And don't even get me started on Rob Van Dam's potential during the beginning of the Invasion angle. It makes me sick just thinking about it.

My point is, McMahon can get lucky, but he can also be totally blind.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Mr Sunday Night Does he really? I am of the opinion that Vince merely got lucky. Hulk Hogan was responsible for getting himself as over as he was, and Vince would've had to have been a complete, total, and utter idiot not to push him. I give McMahon credit for pushing Austin in 1997, because most people had no idea that Steve could be that big of a star. Rock, like Hogan, also kind of made himself, and Vince would've had to be stupid not to realize his potential in 2000. But then you have to take a look at some of the guys that McMahon has failed to capitalize on that could have been huge. Around 2001, Jericho was getting some of the biggest pops out of anyone on the roster, but McMahon let him wallow for too long in mid-card hell. Booker T was mad over last year, and had he been put over Triple H at WM XIX, things might be a helluva whole lot different today. At least we wouldnt've had to sit through HHH vs. Kevin Nash and HHH vs. Goldberg. And don't even get me started on Rob Van Dam's potential during the beginning of the Invasion angle. It makes me sick just thinking about it. My point is, McMahon can get lucky, but he can also be totally blind.

I would agree he doesn't always give everyone a chance to reach their potential (ie Jericho and others), but when a guy reaches that true superstar level nobody in the history of wrestling has been as good as Vince in terms of capitalizing on them and making them larger than life. Hogan is a perfect example. He was already a big star before he got to the WWF, but after he hooked up with Vince he became a household name. Thats what Vince and the WWE are really good at doing. But its not like they can just pull stars like that out of thin air any time they want.

[KillerWolf]

Originally Posted by Mr Sunday Night Does he really? I am of the opinion that Vince merely got lucky. Hulk Hogan was responsible for getting himself as over as he was, and Vince would've had to have been a complete, total, and utter idiot not to push him. I give McMahon credit for pushing Austin in 1997, because most people had no idea that Steve could be that big of a star. Rock, like Hogan, also kind of made himself, and Vince would've had to be stupid not to realize his potential in 2000. But then you have to take a look at some of the guys that McMahon has failed to capitalize on that could have been huge. Around 2001, Jericho was getting some of the biggest pops out of anyone on the roster, but McMahon let him wallow for too long in mid-card hell. Booker T was mad over last year, and had he been put over Triple H at WM XIX, things might be a helluva whole lot different today. At least we wouldnt've had to sit through HHH vs. Kevin Nash and HHH vs. Goldberg. And don't even get me started on Rob Van Dam's potential during the beginning of the Invasion angle. It makes me sick just thinking about it. My point is, McMahon can get lucky, but he can also be totally blind.

agreed. right now, i dont give a shit about RVD and havnt for years, but he had potential to be the next HBK in the begining.

[Hired Hitman]

if things go right, 2005.

[Stickman]

I agree with the Chris jericho idea. He's definatly the man.

[KillerWolf]

i think the question should be "when will wrestling be entertaining again",because being 'cool' and 'entertaining' may not mean the same thing. i personally dont give a f-uck if they have a huge mega-star with a cute little catch-phrase so that all of the morons know when to cheer. Stone Cold was around for a while before wwf ratings picked up. i switched over from wwf to wcw because it was more entertaining-then from wcw back to wwf because IT was more entertaining. it had nothing to do with one particular superstar. and i dont think that one superstar can save the company.

[Nacho Man]

Why not Shelton Benjamin? We've barely heard him on the mic as he was all too often overshadowed by Heyman or Angle (Understandably) It would be easy to pin hopes on Cena, but his character, if we are being highly perhaps unfaily critical, amounts to little more than a white Rock. Benjamin would be the first black wrestler to be seen as the ball carrier for WWE (Rock is Samoan, not black? - at least that's my definition) and there is undoubtedly a large black fan base to be won by putting faith in an african-american as the ball carrier. With a decent push and perhaps a slightly modified gimmick, I believe Shelton can be the man to drag WWE out of it's rut.

[KillerWolf]

Originally Posted by Nacho Man Why not Shelton Benjamin? We've barely heard him on the mic as he was all too often overshadowed by Heyman or Angle (Understandably) It would be easy to pin hopes on Cena, but his character, if we are being highly perhaps unfaily critical, amounts to little more than a white Rock. Benjamin would be the first black wrestler to be seen as the ball carrier for WWE (Rock is Samoan, not black? - at least that's my definition) and there is undoubtedly a large black fan base to be won by putting faith in an african-american as the ball carrier. With a decent push and perhaps a slightly modified gimmick, I believe Shelton can be the man to drag WWE out of it's rut.

they need to make the whole show entertaining again. one superstar cannot save the company.

[Nacho Man]

Originally Posted by shock&awe they need to make the whole show entertaining again. one superstar cannot save the company.

Almost every glory period of wrestling can be defined by the main company player. Hogan,Hart/Michaels,Austin, Rock in order. Nearly always the company experiences a boom on the back of one superstar making a breakthrough, so the whole show can be massively improved by the performance of one wrestler in wrestling or interview skills.

And SAVE the company? The company posted profits last year, it doesn't need saving.

[The Naitch]

uh, Rock is HALF black HALF Samoan

[Nacho Man]

like I say, I was just trying to pigeon hole him completely and as best as I could in order to increase the strength of my argument. No offence intended..I wouldn't have thought that Samoan and Black were mutually exclusive at all, isn't it totally possible to be Samoan and totally black? Black doesn't describe a race and Samoan a skin colour, so it must be possible?

[Batsu]

Originally Posted by Nacho Man Why not Shelton Benjamin? We've barely heard him on the mic as he was all too often overshadowed by Heyman or Angle (Understandably) It would be easy to pin hopes on Cena, but his character, if we are being highly perhaps unfaily critical, amounts to little more than a white Rock. Benjamin would be the first black wrestler to be seen as the ball carrier for WWE (Rock is Samoan, not black? - at least that's my definition) and there is undoubtedly a large black fan base to be won by putting faith in an african-american as the ball carrier. With a decent push and perhaps a slightly modified gimmick, I believe Shelton can be the man to drag WWE out of it's rut.

WWE had their chance to do such a thing, with Booker T last year. He was a very marketable and strong "face" to go against the blandness of the HHH-dominated WWE at the time. He already had people hanging off his catchphrases, much like the Rock had people in 1999-'00, been a part of a vastly over and comical tag team, like the Rock had during that period, but, unlike that infamous period during his WCW tenure, he wasn't ripping off the Rock's character in anyway.

When Wrestlemania XIX came, they dropped the ball by not at least giving Booker the title, even if it were for only a couple of months, thus continuing the HHH domination of that year. (The dropping of the belt to HBK, and later Goldberg, were quite cellophane. However, the angle in which HHH put a "bounty" on Goldberg made it more interesting...)

This is not to say they shouldn't give Shelton a chance. However, I think breaking up Shelton and Charlie Haas was a BAD idea at this point. This could have APA/Dudley breakup repercussions. If he pulls a Matt Hardy on us and surprises us all, that would be great. At worst, it could be a Brock Lesnar, pt. II.

I think the best pushes they're doing are with Randy Orton, and John Cena. Those two came in at the same time, and are basically at the same level in the pecking order on their respective brands (with Cena having the edge in popularity). Seems like yesterday, the two of them were a couple of young, green Smackdown wrestlers.

[BasicThuganomics]

Originally Posted by shock&awe they need to make the whole show entertaining again. one superstar cannot save the company.

Is the word "entertaining" all you know how to say? different people are "entertained" by different things...

[The Naitch]

Who could sell the most merchandise?

[BasicThuganomics]

Originally Posted by The Naitch Who could sell the most merchandise?

John Cena, hands down. He's one of the more creative people in the WWE right now. Some people think his raps are getting stale, although I disagree. He's just been forced to tone it down is the problem. I think that Cena is smarter than most other wrestlers because he's coming out with original merchandise all of the time. "Damn Straight!" might even become the next "Hell Yeah!" someday if Cena continues to be pushed right. Cena knows how to work a crowd very well, and is still different than anyone in the WWE. If Cena keeps getting more attention, and hopefully better storylines, then he can easily become a top seller in merchandise. \mm/

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Nacho Man Almost every glory period of wrestling can be defined by the main company player. Hogan,Hart/Michaels,Austin, Rock in order. Nearly always the company experiences a boom on the back of one superstar making a breakthrough, so the whole show can be massively improved by the performance of one wrestler in wrestling or interview skills. And SAVE the company? The company posted profits last year, it doesn't need saving.

And they immediately had massive slumps afterwards.

Ever hear the phrase "don't put all your eggs in one basket?"

It's a cliché, but it's true.

[The Naitch]

So when's D12's Proof doing the battle with Cena?

[BasicThuganomics]

Originally Posted by The Naitch So when's D12's Proof doing the battle with Cena?

About the same time they get Eminem to show up and support Cena maybe?

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by BasicThuganomics Is the word "entertaining" all you know how to say? different people are "entertained" by different things...

Yeah, but apparently, fewer people are "entertained" by the current "entertainment" than they were during the Attitude Era, for example.

Different people, different tastes would apply if, for example, they were still drawing really good numbers.

[BasicThuganomics]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Yeah, but apparently, fewer people are "entertained" by the current "entertainment" than they were during the Attitude Era, for example. Different people, different tastes would apply if, for example, they were still drawing really good numbers.

My point was that in most of the posts i have read by him he just says that shows need to be entertaining and thats it, never any actual suggestions really, just saying "there's no entertainment!!! I'm not being entertained!!! WWE needs to bring back the entertainment aspect of their show!!!"

I've said this before also, but I think WWE is on a rebound lately, but of course we'll have to see?

[tucsonspeed6]

Originally Posted by Mr Sunday Night and Vince would've had to be stupid not to realize his potential in 2000.

He was already main eventing before 2000.

[The Naitch]

I predict everything will go up when Wrestlemania 21 comes to town. At this time, Cena and Orton should be feuding for the first time.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by BasicThuganomics My point was that in most of the posts i have read by him he just says that shows need to be entertaining and thats it, never any actual suggestions really, just saying "there's no entertainment!!! I'm not being entertained!!! WWE needs to bring back the entertainment aspect of their show!!!" I've said this before also, but I think WWE is on a rebound lately, but of course we'll have to see?

We will have to see.

Meanwhile, it's easier to spot a problem than to solve it. If it was so easy, I doubt that the WWE would keep losing its fans/ratings. Hell, I'm not even totally sure that they're aware of the problem, so he's got one up on the WWE most likely.

[BasicThuganomics]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight We will have to see. Meanwhile, it's easier to spot a problem than to solve it. If it was so easy, I doubt that the WWE would keep losing its fans/ratings. Hell, I'm not even totally sure that they're aware of the problem, so he's got one up on the WWE most likely.

Not really, he just comes off as another idiot who does nothing but whine and bitch really. He says nothing to prove that WWE is doing anything right at the moment despite the fact that WWE has not been all that bad lately. He only focuses on what he doesn't like. He's really annoying and I've only read a few posts by him. I mean people like BDC and CyNick really bitch about the WWE alot too, but they do it when necessary and also give praise when its due, and also doesn't make themselves seem like they're only whining about the WWE. This guy just seems like a dumbass who only likes "the good old days" of wrestling or something?