Rate The Moment #1

**Impeccable** · 03-13-2009, 06:49 AM

Shawn Michael's "Boyhood Dream"

Main Participants: Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart
Event: Wrestlemania XII
Date: March 31st 1996

The first Rate The Moment is Shawn Michaels first WWE Title win at Wrestlemania XII.

In the build up to the moment, we start at Royal Rumble, a year earlier. Shawn Michaels and "The British Bulldog" Davey Boy Smith were numbers 1 and 2, and lasted till the end. Davey Boy thought he had eliminated "The Heartbreak Kid", however Michaels held on to the top rope and only one of his feet touched the floor. Michaels won the rumble and went on to Wrestlemania to face an Uber face, Big Daddy Cool, Diesel for the title. Along the way, Michaels recruited Sid as his body guard in the angle. At Wrestlemania XI, Shawn was unable to beat Diesel (He'd hit Sweet Chin, however Sid had "inadvertantly" distracted the referee). The next night on Raw, Sid attacked Michaels, leaving him out of action until June 1995. This absence was, according to some people, so that Shawn Michaels could return a face.

Shortly after his return, Michaels defeated Jeff Jarrett for the Intercontinental Title (his third reign) at In Your House in July. The month after, he defeated Razor Ramon at Summerslam in a rematch of their classic ladder at Wrestlemania X. Michaels was building momentum, however, in October 1995, he was legitimately attacked outside a bar in Syracuse. He took a few weeks off, forfeiting the intercontinental title, and in a scripted twist, took a kick to the back of the head from Owen Hart, leaving him unconcious (courtesy of a concussion suffered in the Syracuse incident). This led to Shawn teasing a retirement angle. As it turned out, Michaels entered the Royal Rumble 1996 as a face at number 18. He won the Royal Rumble, earning a title shot at Wrestlemania XII.

In the meantime, Bret Hart had beaten Diesel at Survivor Series 1995, in a no disqualification match (where there had been lots of outside interference) and then went on to the Royal Rumble, where he clung onto his title by virtue of being disqualified. This meant that Michaels and Hart were due to meet at Wrestlemania XII.

After the Royal Rumble, Gorilla Monsoon declared that the title match at Wrestlemania was going to be a 60 minute iron man match. WWE was billing this as a classic from the get go, and both competitors had vignettes aired. Bret was shown training in his home town in the snow, and Shawn Michaels hired his old trainer, Jose Lothario to help him to realise his boyhood dream. The vignettes captured the fans imaginations and gave both competitors momentum.

It turns out, the Iron Man match was a classic. It is still one of the most talked about matches today. Michaels and Hart went back and forth for an hour, with neither scoring a pinfall, submission or earning a DQ. In the final minute, Michaels was captured in the Sharpshooter, and the fans thought he was going to tap, but he was saved by the bell. As the match ended a draw, Bret Hart thought he would retain the belt, but WWE President, Gorilla Monsoon ruled that the match needed a winner and that it would continue into a sudden death (first pinfall/submission wins). Michaels hit a Sweet Chin Music, but was too tired to make the pinfall. Both competitors regained their feet and Shawn again hit the Sweet Chin Music and got the pinfall, earning him his first WWE Championship reign and realising his boyhood dream.

**Impeccable** · 03-13-2009, 06:50 AM

So please, rate this moment out of 10 in each of the following areas. I’ll leave it for a week.

Shock Value: How shocking was the outcome, (1 is "you called it from the beginning", 10 is "TOTAL SWERVE")
Reaction: What reaction did you have to this personally (1 is "YAWN", 10 is "OMFG...I LOVED IT!")
Memory: Is it one of the first things you think of when asked about wrestling? How etched into your wrestling history is this event (1 is "who did what now?" and 10 is "are you kidding, I watch repeats on Youtube every week)
Legacy: Did the outcome leave a lasting legacy (i.e. did the winner of a match go on and have 12 title reigns, was it so controversial it is still talked abut today, etc.) 1 is no legacy and 10 is Legendary

Average Score:

**Juan** · 03-13-2009, 06:54 AM

10

**Ben Rodrigues** · 03-13-2009, 07:06 AM

Shock value - 9
Reaction - 10
Memory - 10
Legacy - 10

Average score - 9.75

**Impeccable** · 03-13-2009, 07:12 AM

Shock Value: 7...they billed it as his boyhood dream...it wasn't that shocking to be honest, I knew they were going to put the belt on him...the vignettes...the personal trainer...it would have been a shock if he hadn't won...however, what was shocking was the way the win went down...0-0 and then sudden death...that was pretty cool at the time.

Reaction: 10 - I'll admit, I was a huge Michaels mark. I'd been watching the build ups on Livewire on a saturday morning in the UK, and re-ordered sky sports purely so I could watch wrestlemania

Memory: 8 - Not one of the first moments I think of, but definately up there

Legacy: 10 - Without this win, we wouldn't have seen a montreal screw job, we wouldn't have seen DX...arguably two other moments that shaped the industry today

Average Score: 8.75

GD · 03-13-2009, 07:27 AM

8. A defining moment in the legendary career of the "HBM" Shawn Michaels.

**Nicky Fives** · 03-13-2009, 08:35 AM

Shock Value - 9
Reaction - 10
Memory - 10
Legacy - 10

Average score - 9.75

There aren't too many moments that will top this one.

**Krimzon7** · 03-13-2009, 09:19 AM

NIck555 has captured my emotions exactly. Except for one stark truth. This match was the reason that I'm the fan of wrestling that I am today. For me to say that this has to be a 10 in my book. I hope that I don't shit on your intentions here my friend, but I dare anyone to find a better moment than this.

**Impeccable** · 03-13-2009, 10:09 AM

No, not at all...we just happen to have picked a moment that may well be the benchmark. However, I know for me, it is NOT my defining moment of wrestling. If it's number one, it's number one, fair enough. I think there are tonnes of things that I could pick that people would score as 10 across the board

**Loose Cannon** · 03-13-2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick55555

There aren't too many moments that will top this one.

lol, you got to be kidding me

**Loose Cannon** · 03-13-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krimzon7

, but I dare anyone to find a better moment than this.

how about Vince buying WCW just for starters

or how about Hogan joining the nWo

or maybe the Montreal Screwjob.

or Piper kicking Lauper in the head

or Superclash I

I know you are probably an HBK fan and this was a nice moment for the mark in you, but no way this breaks the top 50 on any list

**Loose Cannon** · 03-13-2009, 10:40 AM

5
5
5
5

**Dave Youell** · 03-13-2009, 10:43 AM

Really good write up on this.

One small point, it was Piper who made the call for it to be an hour match, not Monsoon.

Here's the thing, I didn't like this match, I think, as far as what Iron Man matches are meant to be about, it didn't do it for me, i wanted a few falls, the fact they approached this match totally differently from any other match you could tell that it was going to a draw, and I didn't like it. Sorry.

So:

Shock Value - 6
Reaction - 6
Memory - 8
Legacy - 8

I'll give it a good rating for Memory and Legacy, because everyone else talks about it, but like LC said, there's been better moments in wrestling, and for folks to give this a 9 or a 10 in comparison to other stuff that will come up is a mistake IMO

**Impeccable** · 03-13-2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

how about Vince buying WCW just for starters

or how about Hogan joining the nWo

or maybe the Montreal Screwjob.

or Piper kicking Lauper in the head

or Superclash I

I know you are probably an HBK and this was a nice moment for the mark in you, but no way this breaks the top 50 on any list

Thank you for bringing a bit of perspective to this thread! There are moments greater than this one, for sure, but i chose it as a nice starting point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Youell

Really good write up on this.

One small point, it was Piper who made the call for it to be an hour match, not Monsoon.

Here's the thing, I didn't like this match, I think, as far as what Iron Man matches are meant to be about, it didn't do it for me, i wanted a few falls, the fact they approached this match totally differently from any other match you could tell that it was going to a draw, and I didn't like it. Sorry.

So:

Shock Value - 6
Reaction - 6
Memory - 8
Legacy - 8

I'll give it a good rating for Memory and Legacy, because everyone else talks about it, but like LC said, there's been better moments in wrestling, and for folks to give this a 9 or a 10 in comparison to other stuff that will come up is a mistake IMO

Thanks for the positive comments...my bad re: Gorilla/Piper mix up...I'll change it now.

Again, thanks for really thinking about the four areas rather than giving high scores across the board.

**Krimzon7** · 03-13-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

how about Vince buying WCW just for starters

or how about Hogan joining the nWo

or maybe the Montreal Screwjob.

or Piper kicking Lauper in the head

or Superclash I

I know you are probably an HBK fan and this was a nice moment for the mark in you, but no way this breaks the top 50 on any list

LC you have some really good points. I have to admit that I've never seen Superclash, nor did I care enough about the WWF to wanna watch Piper Kick Cindi Lauper. Hogan/NWO and the Screwjob were epic, true. I rated this based on me absolutely falling for the WWF after this match. Until that point, I was PURELY WCW. This match caused me to want to see more of the characters on the 'other guy's promotion', and caused me to start hunting down ECW tapes. So that is why I'll give it the ratings I did. I dared you to bring up more, and you've done that. Thanks!

**Hornicane** · 03-13-2009, 11:37 AM

Shock Value: 6. It was awesome, but Shawn was gonna get it.
Reaction: 10. I thought the ending was sweet. Definite mark-out moment.
Memory: 6. Not the first thing I think of, but it has to be mentioned.
Legacy: 9.

Total: 7.75

**Loose Cannon** · 03-13-2009, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krimzon7

LC you have some really good points. I have to admit that I've never seen Superclash, nor did I care enough about the WWF to wanna watch Piper Kick Cindi Lauper. Hogan/NWO and the Screwjob were epic, true. I rated this based on me absolutely falling for the WWF after this match. Until that point, I was PURELY WCW. This match caused me to want to see more of the characters on the 'other guy's promotion', and caused me to start hunting down ECW tapes. So that is why I'll give it the ratings I did. I dared you to bring up more, and you've done that. Thanks!

nah, that's cool. sorry if I seemed a little jumpy. It's all really about how you rate these things.

For me, I try to leave the mark in me at the door when I rate these things and look at the bigger picture. For this sort of topic, I look at the impact it had across the board on fans, on the industry, on the ratings, etc etc etc

**Supreme Olajuwon** · 03-13-2009, 12:12 PM

Shock Value: 3. This was still back when the face always won the world title at Wrestlemania and at that time it was clear the WWF wanted HBK to be the face in the match. Plus with the buildup and the zip line entrance it was pretty clear Michaels would win.

Reaction: 7. Loses points because it was pretty obvious but still great because of the way it was handled.

Memory: 10. When I think of the WWF, Michaels on his knees staring at the belt is one of the first 3 moments that pops into my head. An alltime great moment.

Legacy: 8. If I give this a 10, what am I going to give the screwjob?

Average Score: 7.00

**Nicky Fives** · 03-13-2009, 06:53 PM

Loose Cannon, I am not an HBK fan, but IMO that was the best match in WWE history for a number of reasons... It was execellently booked and the match was flawless. Of the moments you mentioned, only Hogan joining the nWo comes close.....

**St. Jimmy** · 03-13-2009, 07:06 PM

10.

**Dave Youell** · 03-13-2009, 07:12 PM

A few moments to be that beat this:

Eddie's title win
Benoit's title win
Foley's title win
Hogan joins nWo
Vince reveals himself to be the higher power (j/k)

**Destor** · 03-13-2009, 07:57 PM

Shock value - 0
Reaction - 8
Memory - 10
Legacy - 10

Average: 7

**Loose Cannon** · 03-13-2009, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick55555

Loose Cannon, I am not an HBK fan, but IMO that was the best match in WWE history for a number of reasons... It was execellently booked and the match was flawless. Of the moments you mentioned, only Hogan joining the nWo comes close.....

fine, but argue why so? you can't just say it was the best match. wrestling has had hundreds of matches just as good, if not better over it's time. it's not standing out in that category, so you can't make an argument there.

maybe not so much Superclash 1 (although it was pretty big news at the time), but the rest of them I mentioned changed the industry so much whether it was in the ratings, or bringing national attention to the WWE, or completely changing the direction for a company just to name a few things.

HBK winning a title was a good moment, yea, I'll say it's in the top 100, but it was nothing special. Not as special as Austin's first WWF Title win or Hogan's or Foley's. It's rght on par with Eddie's and Benoit's World Title wins.

**Loose Cannon** · 03-13-2009, 11:49 PM

by the way, I'll give you HBK moments that were more important then this to me

HBK throwing Jannety through the Barbershop window might be his greatest moment ever. it was his defining moment in the Heartbreak Kid character and instantly made him a big player. He needed to make an impact and he did it perfectly. And dare I say it's talked about a lot more then his 1st Title win

Then you got to fast foward to October of 97 where HBK gave a little promo and coined the phrase "D-Generation X." And you might think that promo was nothing special. Yea, you're right, not at the time, but look what it spawned and how a single phrase changed the course of the WWE.

Then you can make a strong argument for the return at Summerslam '02. Arguably the greatest comeback in wrestling history.

**The Gold Standard** · 03-14-2009, 01:26 PM

Shock Value:7 It wasn't that surprising the way they were hyping up HBK
Reaction: 9 I was really pumped when he won, but I am a huge Bret Hart fan, so I was upset when he lost, but I was also young and followed the crowd.
Memory: 10 I think this is one of the best matches of all time. It was 2 of the best wrestlers of all time in a classic.
Legacy: 10 Of course. If not, HBK would not be the guy he is today. Also, the Screwjob probably wouldn't have happened.

Average Score: 9

**The Optimist** · 03-15-2009, 07:14 AM

10

One of the greatest moments I can remember in wrestling.

03-13-2009, 06:50 AM	#2
Impeccable Tag Team Wrestling Mark! Posts: 2,340	So please, rate this moment out of 10 in each of the following areas. I’ll leave it for a week. Shock Value: How shocking was the outcome, (1 is "you called it from the beginning", 10 is "TOTAL SWERVE") Reaction: What reaction did you have to this personally (1 is "YAWN", 10 is "OMFG...I LOVED IT!") Memory: Is it one of the first things you think of when asked about wrestling? How etched into your wrestling history is this event (1 is "who did what now?" and 10 is "are you kidding, I watch repeats on Youtube every week) Legacy: Did the outcome leave a lasting legacy (i.e. did the winner of a match go on and have 12 title reigns, was it so controversial it is still talked abut today, etc.) 1 is no legacy and 10 is Legendary Average Score: Last edited by Impeccable; 03-13-2009 at 07:04 AM.

03-13-2009, 07:06 AM	#4
Ben Rodrigues Posts: 1,798	Shock value - 9 Reaction - 10 Memory - 10 Legacy - 10 Average score - 9.75 Last edited by Ben Rodrigues; 03-13-2009 at 07:15 AM.

03-13-2009, 06:54 AM	#3
Juan Doin' It Right Posts: 35,461	10

03-13-2009, 07:12 AM	#5
Impeccable Tag Team Wrestling Mark! Posts: 2,340	Shock Value: 7...they billed it as his boyhood dream...it wasn't that shocking to be honest, I knew they were going to put the belt on him...the vignettes...the personal trainer...it would have been a shock if he hadn't won...however, what was shocking was the way the win went down...0-0 and then sudden death...that was pretty cool at the time. Reaction: 10 - I'll admit, I was a huge Michaels mark. I'd been watching the build ups on Livewire on a saturday morning in the UK, and re-ordered sky sports purely so I could watch wrestlemania Memory: 8 - Not one of the first moments I think of, but definately up there Legacy: 10 - Without this win, we wouldn't have seen a montreal screw job, we wouldn't have seen DX...arguably two other moments that shaped the industry today Average Score: 8.75

03-13-2009, 07:27 AM	#6
GD Posts: 58,598	8. A defining moment in the legendary career of the "HBM" Shawn Michaels.

03-13-2009, 08:35 AM	#7
Nicky Fives b/c 5 is better than 4 Posts: 9,721	Shock Value - 9 Reaction - 10 Memory - 10 Legacy - 10 Average score - 9.75 There aren't too many moments that will top this one.

03-13-2009, 09:19 AM	#8
Krimzon7 King of the Ring Posts: 8,848	NIck555 has captured my emotions exactly. Except for one stark truth. This match was the reason that I'm the fan of wrestling that I am today. For me to say that this has to be a 10 in my book. I hope that I don't shit on your intentions here my friend, but I dare anyone to find a better moment than this.

03-13-2009, 10:09 AM	#9
Impeccable Tag Team Wrestling Mark! Posts: 2,340	No, not at all...we just happen to have picked a moment that may well be the benchmark. However, I know for me, it is NOT my defining moment of wrestling. If it's number one, it's number one, fair enough. I think there are tonnes of things that I could pick that people would score as 10 across the board

03-13-2009, 10:40 AM	#12
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	5 5 5 5

03-13-2009, 10:43 AM	#13
Dave Youell 1/2 Optimist 1/2 Amazing Posts: 12,427	Really good write up on this. One small point, it was Piper who made the call for it to be an hour match, not Monsoon. Here's the thing, I didn't like this match, I think, as far as what Iron Man matches are meant to be about, it didn't do it for me, i wanted a few falls, the fact they approached this match totally differently from any other match you could tell that it was going to a draw, and I didn't like it. Sorry. So: Shock Value - 6 Reaction - 6 Memory - 8 Legacy - 8 I'll give it a good rating for Memory and Legacy, because everyone else talks about it, but like LC said, there's been better moments in wrestling, and for folks to give this a 9 or a 10 in comparison to other stuff that will come up is a mistake IMO

03-13-2009, 11:37 AM	#16
Hornicane God of Warnicane Posts: 5,383	Shock Value: 6. It was awesome, but Shawn was gonna get it. Reaction: 10. I thought the ending was sweet. Definite mark-out moment. Memory: 6. Not the first thing I think of, but it has to be mentioned. Legacy: 9. Total: 7.75

03-13-2009, 12:12 PM	#18
Supreme Olajuwon You know that�s right Posts: 52,765	Shock Value: 3. This was still back when the face always won the world title at Wrestlemania and at that time it was clear the WWF wanted HBK to be the face in the match. Plus with the buildup and the zip line entrance it was pretty clear Michaels would win. Reaction: 7. Loses points because it was pretty obvious but still great because of the way it was handled. Memory: 10. When I think of the WWF, Michaels on his knees staring at the belt is one of the first 3 moments that pops into my head. An alltime great moment. Legacy: 8. If I give this a 10, what am I going to give the screwjob? Average Score: 7.00

03-13-2009, 06:53 PM	#19
Nicky Fives b/c 5 is better than 4 Posts: 9,721	Loose Cannon, I am not an HBK fan, but IMO that was the best match in WWE history for a number of reasons... It was execellently booked and the match was flawless. Of the moments you mentioned, only Hogan joining the nWo comes close.....

03-13-2009, 07:06 PM	#20
St. Jimmy Last of a Dying Forum Posts: 16,215	10.

03-13-2009, 07:12 PM	#21
Dave Youell 1/2 Optimist 1/2 Amazing Posts: 12,427	A few moments to be that beat this: Eddie's title win Benoit's title win Foley's title win Hogan joins nWo Vince reveals himself to be the higher power (j/k)

03-13-2009, 07:57 PM	#22
Destor I am the cheese Posts: 51,504	Shock value - 0 Reaction - 8 Memory - 10 Legacy - 10 Average: 7

03-13-2009, 11:49 PM	#24
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	by the way, I'll give you HBK moments that were more important then this to me HBK throwing Jannety through the Barbershop window might be his greatest moment ever. it was his defining moment in the Heartbreak Kid character and instantly made him a big player. He needed to make an impact and he did it perfectly. And dare I say it's talked about a lot more then his 1st Title win Then you got to fast foward to October of 97 where HBK gave a little promo and coined the phrase "D-Generation X." And you might think that promo was nothing special. Yea, you're right, not at the time, but look what it spawned and how a single phrase changed the course of the WWE. Then you can make a strong argument for the return at Summerslam '02. Arguably the greatest comeback in wrestling history.

03-14-2009, 01:26 PM	#25
The Gold Standard Posts: 4,365	Shock Value:7 It wasn't that surprising the way they were hyping up HBK Reaction: 9 I was really pumped when he won, but I am a huge Bret Hart fan, so I was upset when he lost, but I was also young and followed the crowd. Memory: 10 I think this is one of the best matches of all time. It was 2 of the best wrestlers of all time in a classic. Legacy: 10 Of course. If not, HBK would not be the guy he is today. Also, the Screwjob probably wouldn't have happened. Average Score: 9

03-15-2009, 07:14 AM	#26
The Optimist Planet Races The Moon Posts: 2,376	10 One of the greatest moments I can remember in wrestling.