DISCUSSION - Some thoughts about Matt Hardy, Undertaker, Christian, etc.,

[Heyman]

DISCUSSION - Some thoughts about Matt Hardy, Undertaker, Christian, etc.,

-First off, Matt Hardy. I think most will agree with me when I say that Matt Hardy and Lita should be paired up again (and be pushed as faces). From what read, Matt received a decent sized face pop on Heat the other night against Lance Storm. The fans WANT to cheer Matt Hardy.....who has a great gimmick. If him and Lita were to somehow 'make up', I think the fans would buy into it. Furthermore - I think Matt would be way over as a face. A Matt Hardy w/Lita vs. Christian w/Trish Stratus feud could be something worth seeing.

For the next few weeks or so (or until Backlash), the WWE should continue to play out the whole "Matt is struggling" storyline thing. He somehow re-unites with Lita (he comes out and saves her from a beating a few times?) and gets re-pushed. Voila.


-As far as Christian goes, I think his thing with Jericho seems to be going good. When you think about it, the WWE has a golden opportunity to establish Christian as a top heel. Not only does he have his program with Jericho right now (and imagine if he 'goes over' again), but what about with Edge? Do you think there's a chance that the WWE will bring up "Who hit Edge?" (From last year's No Way Out). Imagine if it was revealed as Christian (I know the PPV was a Smackdown exclusive PPV where Edge got injured, but perhaps Christian was in attendance?......stalking his prey?). Christian then gets into an 'emotional' program with brother Edge and goes over once again. The WWE will probably be more likely to push Edge instead of Christian, but I'd strongly consider MY option (especially if Edge shows major ring rust and is a shadow of his former self a la Triple H a la Rhyno).

-Do you think the WWE should consider turning the Undertaker heel again? Smackdown is in need of a main-event heel, and Taker does fit the bill for that. What if Undertaker reformed a new ministry? With Dennis Knight (a.k.a. MIDEON) getting another try-out from the WWE, perhaps this could happen. Undertaker was one of the main heels during Austin's peak, and so I'm sure he could have a similar effect for guys like Cena, Guerrero, and even RVD. How would a stable consisting of Undertaker, Mideon, O'Haire, Jindrak, and................Viscera! ( ) sound?

[Rock Bottom]

Good stuff Heyman, I just have one question. Do you know how many people would mark out if 'Taker reformed a Ministry? I don't think they could turn him heel right now with the deadcowboy, I mean deadman gimmick.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Rock Bottom Good stuff Heyman, I just have one question. Do you know how many people would mark out if 'Taker reformed a Ministry? I don't think they could turn him heel right now with the deadcowboy, I mean deadman gimmick.

I know - that's the only problem with that. However - I think the fans' perception of Taker (and the Ministry) would change over time........especially if they continued to perform 'dastardly deeds'! (remember - most fans are marks ).

In 1999, the fans also got an erection of the penis when Taker re-debuted and started the Ministry. However - the crowd also gave them appropriate heel heat in due time.........especially when they were feuding with the likes of Stone Cold Steve Austin and eventually The Rock.

Same thing could happen here - YES, the fans would cheer Taker, but they would cheer Cena, Guerrero, and even RVD more.

I'm thinking that Jindrak and O'Haire can become 'dark' characters (or what O'Haire is almost already playing anyways), and they can serve the old role of the Acolytes.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Heyman I know - that's the only problem with that. However - I think the fans' perception of Taker (and the Ministry) would change over time........especially if they continued to perform 'dastardly deeds'! (remember - most fans are marks ). In 1999, the fans also got an erection of the penis when Taker re-debuted and started the Ministry. However - the crowd also gave them appropriate heel heat in due time.........especially when they were feuding with the likes of Stone Cold Steve Austin and eventually The Rock. Same thing could happen here - YES, the fans would cheer Taker, but they would cheer Cena, Guerrero, and even RVD more. I'm thinking that Jindrak and O'Haire can become 'dark' characters (or what O'Haire is almost already playing anyways), and they can serve the old role of the Acolytes.

I'm also thinking that Taker could 'put over' Eddie Guerrero cleanly at around Summerslam (or beyond that?). Taker has shown a willingness to put over stars that are about to draw for the company.......or may be in a position to (i.e. Steve Austin, Brock Lesnar).

Perhaps a heel Taker jobbing to Guerrero could be the equivalent of what we saw in 1998 at Summerslam (i.e. Taker jobbing to Austin).

[Rock Bottom]

If 'Taker put Guerrero over, I think I would just about be satisfied. That would be great. Guerrero getting more over wouldn't be bad at all right now, even though he is unquestionably on fire and drawing the hell out of viewers.

The Ministry wouldn't be a bad idea I don't think, because IMO, SmackDown is lacking interesting angles, even though this whole new RAW guys thing and Kurt being new GM is afoot. I think a huge heel stable on SmackDown! would be GREAT. Especially lead by a veteran like 'Taker, who can play any role well.

'Taker is one bad mother fucker, and I'll always think so.

[BasicThuganomics]

at the thought of OHaire in the Ministry, Taker could have Ohaire spreading his evil message to the masses or something. That would be awesome. I wonder though how to get the Ministry really good heat. Attacking Eddie Guerrero would get them at least some heat. Maybe UT telling him that the demons he's battled in his personal life are nothing compared to the hell that he will go through once the Ministry is done with him, and the kidnap and torture him leaving the fans wondering for a week what happened? That would be a start at least. Any other ideas Heyman?

I can't believe I'm asking you for an idea right now by the way

Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing Taker as an evil heel. The WWE really needs an evil character right now. Well maybe they don't, but I love those sort of characters. They had one with Kane, but that seems to be over now as he's been buried so many times.

And I really hope that if they ever bring back O'Haire, he still has that same dark character.

[The CyNick]

I like the Matt Hardy scenario, thats some good thinking.

Christian-Edge is a good idea as a feud, but the problem is that they want to push Edge, and losing to Christian wouldn't be the best thing for a guy who they expect to main event. I think the easiest way to put over Christian is to do what Hunter did with Shelton with Benoit and Christian. Christian could get a match with Benoit and look really good all the way through, but obviously he wouldn't win (unless it was a non title match) but he would come really really close. That would get over the fact that Christian isn't a low end guy anymore.

Taker as a heel would be nice if he was willing to put people over, but I'm not so certain he would do that. 2 JOBs in 6 years isn't exactly a great record. Plus, jobbing to the biggest star in the business in Austin isn't really a big deal. The Brock JOB in the Cell was good, but would he be willing to lay down the right way for a guy who is 5'8? I really doubt it.

Taker is really useless at this point to me. I have no faith that he will put anyone over, and his gimmick is so 3 hours ago. A Ministry gimmick might get over, but I just think its the wrong era for "The Deadman". I would rather see him go back to being Biker Taker where at least he was selling and stuff. I mean anyone read the house shows over the weekend? "Taker over Booker T is less than a minute". Thats not going to do any good for anyone, and thats how he's going to be booked if he's doing the Deadman gimmick.

[PureHatred]

Yeah, it seems like the WWE really doesn't know what to do with UT; he didn't make an appearance on the big inter-promotional Raw and then wasn't on Smackdown. You've got to build up Booker and Bradshaw before they job to UT. And a heel run with The Ministry would be ok as long as it doesn't necesarily mean he kills the heat of every face on SD. I don't know...maybe Steiner vs Undertaker?

You're other ideas are just fine.

[BLaZeR-]

Originally Posted by The CyNick I mean anyone read the house shows over the weekend? "Taker over Booker T is less than a minute".

ROFL...I just knew it would happen sooner or later. Poor Booker.

[Azriel]

Originally Posted by The CyNick 2 JOBs in 6 years isn't exactly a great record. Plus, jobbing to the biggest star in the business in Austin isn't really a big deal. The Brock JOB in the Cell was good, but would he be willing to lay down the right way for a guy who is 5'8? I really doubt it.

Who says you neccesarily have to lose to put someone over? I think he's put over plenty of guys without losing. Look at his feud with Cena. I think that put Cena over big time, and let's not forget his feuds with Kane.

[BasicThuganomics]

Originally Posted by trnbuckle Who says you neccesarily have to lose to put someone over? I think he's put over plenty of guys without losing. Look at his feud with Cena. I think that put Cena over big time, and let's not forget his feuds with Kane.

Those don't help your arguments, both of those guys would have been twice as over if they would have been able to go over Taker at least once the right way.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by The CyNick Christian-Edge is a good idea as a feud, but the problem is that they want to push Edge, and losing to Christian wouldn't be the best thing for a guy who they expect to main event.

True, but couldn't they always push Edge at a LATER date?........especially if he proves himself to be like Triple H and Rhyno were when they returned (i.e. hampered performances due to after effects of the injury). I mean - they could still make Edge look decent, but just hold him back until he's physically ready once again.

Christian has so much fucking momentum right now. Since Benoit is a face champ, wouldn't it be to the WWE's advantage to push a new heel?

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by BasicThuganomics Any other ideas Heyman? I can't believe I'm asking you for an idea right now by the way

The Ministry capture Chavo Guerrero and his father. Eddie then says, "I don't give a damn essaie".

The thing I like about the Ministry idea the MOST (other than the fact that SD gets a credible main-event heel), is that it's almost a parallel to Raw's "Evolution".

Just as Evolution has really helped the careers of Orton and Batista, the Ministry can help out the careers of Sean O'Haire and Mark Jindrak.

[Pegasus Crawford]

Just a note Heyman, the computer hosting the image in your sig went "poof," so now it's a red x.

[Heyman]

INTERPROMOTIONAL: Evolution vs. Ministry feud

How does this idea sound? An interpromotional feud between Evolution (Triple H, Randy Orton, Batista, and Flair), versus the Ministry of Darkness (Undertaker w/Paul Bearer, Mideon, Sean O'Haire, and Mark Jindrak). Could a feud like this be every bit as entertaining as the old Nation vs. DX feud? I think so.

Also - a feud like this would be pretty cool, because it would successfully lure away Triple H and Undertaker away from the main-event scene. Since they would be pre-occupied with one another, they can't hold anyone else down! Ha!

O'Haire and Jindrak also get the 'rub' by being made to look as Orton and Batista's equals.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Heyman INTERPROMOTIONAL: Evolution vs. Ministry feud How does this idea sound? An interpromotional feud between Evolution (Triple H, Randy Orton, Batista, and Flair), versus the Ministry of Darkness (Undertaker w/Paul Bearer, Mideon, Sean O'Haire, and Mark Jindrak). Could a feud like this be every bit as entertaining as the old Nation vs. DX feud? I think so. Also - a feud like this would be pretty cool, because it would successfully lure away Triple H and Undertaker away from the main-event scene. Since they would be pre-occupied with one another, they can't hold anyone else down! Ha! O'Haire and Jindrak also get the 'rub' by being made to look as Orton and Batista's equals.

Speaking of this idea - do you think it would be possible for the entire Evolution stable to turn face?...........and be as popular (or almost as popular) as Degeneration X was? My initial gut feeling is 'no', but who knows. Triple H is still Triple H. Batista and Chyna have similar charisma/mic skill (and are both men with 12 inch penises). Flair can arguably be as cool (cooler?) than Road Dogg on the mic, while Orton also has plenty of Charisma....arguably more than X-Pac and Gunn.

Personally however - I'd like to see Evolution be heels, while the Ministry be face.

[KillerWolf]

Originally Posted by Heyman Speaking of this idea - do you think it would be possible for the entire Evolution stable to turn face?...........and be as popular (or almost as popular) as Degeneration X was? My initial gut feeling is 'no', but who knows. Triple H is still Triple H. Batista and Chyna have similar charisma/mic skill (and are both men with 12 inch penises). Flair can arguably be as cool (cooler?) than Road Dogg on the mic, while Orton also has plenty of Charisma....arguably more than X-Pac and Gunn. Personally however - I'd like to see Evolution be heels, while the Ministry be face.

nope. the 'ministry' is basically a satanic cult. sad times were livin' in if they're playin the 'face' roll.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Heyman INTERPROMOTIONAL: Evolution vs. Ministry feud How does this idea sound? An interpromotional feud between Evolution (Triple H, Randy Orton, Batista, and Flair), versus the Ministry of Darkness (Undertaker w/Paul Bearer, Mideon, Sean O'Haire, and Mark Jindrak). Could a feud like this be every bit as entertaining as the old Nation vs. DX feud? I think so. Also - a feud like this would be pretty cool, because it would successfully lure away Triple H and Undertaker away from the main-event scene. Since they would be pre-occupied with one another, they can't hold anyone else down! Ha! O'Haire and Jindrak also get the 'rub' by being made to look as Orton and Batista's equals.

They need to keep SD vs RAW matches for Mania only, so its alright to do this as a feud but it wont exactly keep them busy, because they cant face each other, or at least they shouldn't face each other until Mania. Although I have a tough time seeing HHH staying away from the World title to jump into a program with Mideon.

In terms of Evolution as faces, yeah it could work but its totally the wrong time for a face turn. Orton needs to groomed to be the next top heel for the company, and he needs to first lead the group as a heel before he can turn face. I could see splitting HHH and Flair form the group, and having them turn face to feud with the new Evolution, but Orton and Batista need to stay evil.