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Old 06-02-2009, 10:52 AM   #1
Supreme Olajuwon
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Why are people still complaining about Orton looking weak?
He's a HEEL, that's what he's supposed to look like. He's supposed to look weaker than his face opposition. The audience is supposed to feel like the face could beat the shit out of him, and when he cheats to win, the audience is supposed to be outraged because if it had only been a fair fight, the face would've won. All the great heel champions have done this. Flair did it, HBK did it, Hogan did it, HHH did it, Edge is currently doing it. Yes, occasionally you have a monster heel, but that's not Orton and you know it.


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Old 06-02-2009, 10:54 AM   #2
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Good post. Not much else to add really.
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:50 AM   #3
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I don't think Orton looks weak. I just think he looks like a guy who can't wrestle.
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:55 AM   #4
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That's probably because he can't.
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:07 PM   #5
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I complain about Orton looking weak against Ric Flair, a retired sack of old fuck.
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:20 PM   #6
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That's probably because he can't.
I knew there was a reason.
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:55 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
I complain about Orton looking weak against Ric Flair, a retired sack of old fuck.
couldn't of said it better myself.ric"ill slap his chest instead of punching him in the mouth"flair.cant wait for him to just fuck off his man boobs just look nearly as bad as his bald fucking head
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Old 06-02-2009, 01:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
I complain about Orton looking weak against Ric Flair, a retired sack of old fuck.
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Old 06-02-2009, 01:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme Olajuwon View Post
He's a HEEL, that's what he's supposed to look like. He's supposed to look weaker than his face opposition. The audience is supposed to feel like the face could beat the shit out of him, and when he cheats to win, the audience is supposed to be outraged because if it had only been a fair fight, the face would've won. All the great heel champions have done this. Flair did it, HBK did it, Hogan did it, HHH did it, Edge is currently doing it. Yes, occasionally you have a monster heel, but that's not Orton and you know it.
It's not the looking weak against a HHH, or a Batista that bothers me. What bothers me is when he looks weak against Shane, and most recently Flair. It's understandable that a heel should look cowardly and resort to cheating, but when he is getting handled in street fights with people who should not even be in his league that is where things start looking a little off.
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Old 06-02-2009, 01:18 PM   #10
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I pretty sure I could kick Ortons ass now.
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Old 06-02-2009, 03:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehazeeffect View Post
It's not the looking weak against a HHH, or a Batista that bothers me. What bothers me is when he looks weak against Shane, and most recently Flair. It's understandable that a heel should look cowardly and resort to cheating, but when he is getting handled in street fights with people who should not even be in his league that is where things start looking a little off.
You are not suppose to look at Flair and Shane as people not in Orton's league. Flair should be looked at as the 16 time World Champion. Shane was suppose to be looked at as a guy protecting his family. That is why Orton looked bad against Shane because Shane did what everyone would do when protecting family.
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Old 06-02-2009, 04:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme Olajuwon View Post
He's a HEEL, that's what he's supposed to look like. He's supposed to look weaker than his face opposition. The audience is supposed to feel like the face could beat the shit out of him, and when he cheats to win, the audience is supposed to be outraged because if it had only been a fair fight, the face would've won. All the great heel champions have done this. Flair did it, HBK did it, Hogan did it, HHH did it, Edge is currently doing it. Yes, occasionally you have a monster heel, but that's not Orton and you know it.
People sometimes like underdogs.
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Old 06-02-2009, 04:22 PM   #13
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I'm just getting tired of Raw ending with Orton getting his ass kicked then Rhodes and DiBiase showing up and beating up the face long enough for Randy to get the RKO. I would much rather Orton get his ass kicked for awhile and then use something like a chair or low blow than constantly need the assistance of two men in order to overpower one. If Randy looks weak at all, that is why.
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Old 06-02-2009, 04:27 PM   #14
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Like if flair was beating him than orton came back on his own like through a low blow that'd be fine
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Old 06-02-2009, 04:28 PM   #15
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Also, Orton beating Ric Flair to half to death would get him mad heat.




Like it did two years ago . . .
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Old 06-02-2009, 04:34 PM   #16
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I don't have a problem with Ric beating Orton up a bit. But there was no reason to get Legacy and the cage involved. That whole thing was so overdone.

Flair beats up Orton for awhile, Orton takes control and takes him to the ring. Cue Bats. Cue Legacy double team on Bats. Cue RKO/punt on Flair while Legacy have beaten Bats up to the stage and knocked him out with a chair or something instead of him yelling at the cage like an asshole. Orton looks good and so do Rhodes and DiBiase.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:28 PM   #17
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I agree with Orton coming back on his own with a chair shot or a low blow. But always counting on Legacy coming to his aid is getting old. I understand the whole group theme but even when Triple H was in Evolution, he had his hammer to help him and switched Evolution and the hammer out instead of just the group. Now if they would have did Batista like they did Triple H when Steph got DDTed then that would have made it look better.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:39 PM   #18
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I love Orton's reactions after he punts people. He almost has like a "Bubba Ray putting women through tables" thing going on.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
You are not suppose to look at Flair and Shane as people not in Orton's league. Flair should be looked at as the 16 time World Champion.
I don't agree with this.

If I was to see a professional athlete at the top of his game take on a retired, former athlete in the same field I think I would expect the current guy to win.

It's easy to say he had the "emotional advantage" so, yeah, let him take the "lead"in the fight, but eventually that adrenalin will quickly run out and the more youthful, stronger, quicker, trained guy would take control.
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Old 06-02-2009, 06:43 PM   #20
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I love Orton's reactions after he punts people. He almost has like a "Bubba Ray putting women through tables" thing going on.
Yeah, I like that "I'm a retard" look he gets. I think if they had it to where the others would hold the person that is trying to help and make them watch would make it a lot better. Like they kind of did with HHH.
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Old 06-03-2009, 03:35 AM   #21
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i'm not mad about the way randy orton is acting because he's a heel and he is supposed to, but is it just me or does Orton get the face like I want to fuck the guy standing in front of me? IE look at Raw when he was staring at Batista through the cage. It looked like Orton wanted to rip through that cage and make love to Batista. His "Viper" look is just turning straight gay
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Old 06-03-2009, 03:38 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
You are not suppose to look at Flair and Shane as people not in Orton's league. Flair should be looked at as the 16 time World Champion. Shane was suppose to be looked at as a guy protecting his family. That is why Orton looked bad against Shane because Shane did what everyone would do when protecting family.

Except if I went after someone with that much size, strength and experience over me "protecting my family" i would likely be killed. Not beat the shit out of them until his lackeys showed up.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:40 AM   #23
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Orton shouldn't look "weak." We have enough reasons to despise the guy based on how much of an asshole he is. He kicks old men in the heads, picks easy fights, and then rubs his valid points about how he is the best in the world in our faces.

I don't think the WWE really has an idea how to book Orton right now. On one hand, we are meant to fear guys getting in the ring with him, because they could get punted (like Triple H). But on the other, we are meant to believe that Orton is a pussy that needs back-up and can't beat real men (like Triple H).

It seems like bi-polar booking to me. Orton was most enjoyable when he was on a role. He won the 2009 Royal Rumble, and it seemed like it should have been a turning point at WrestleMania with Orton beating Triple H. Then the same rematches could have happened, but Orton would look like the man to beat -- which is what he is meant to be as a heel holding the WWE Title.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:41 AM   #24
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But just to clarify: I haven't been paying attention to RAW, so I don't know if Orton does look weak. I am just saying that he shouldn't.
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Old 06-04-2009, 11:20 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme Olajuwon View Post
He's a HEEL, that's what he's supposed to look like. He's supposed to look weaker than his face opposition. The audience is supposed to feel like the face could beat the shit out of him, and when he cheats to win, the audience is supposed to be outraged because if it had only been a fair fight, the face would've won. All the great heel champions have done this. Flair did it, HBK did it, Hogan did it, HHH did it, Edge is currently doing it. Yes, occasionally you have a monster heel, but that's not Orton and you know it.
Thank God there's only one way to book a character, and Orton's being booked in such a way consistent with that.

Otherwise, this post would just sound ridiculous.
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Old 06-05-2009, 12:19 PM   #26
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I can see where some people would complain about Orton after he basically got his ass handed to him by a retired 60-year-old dude, until his Legacy cronies convieniently rush in like vultures and start helping Orton tear Flair apart...doesn't mean he is weak, just that that was how some chose to percieve him at the conclusion of RAW.
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Old 06-05-2009, 01:01 PM   #27
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It is kind of weird that he's supposed to be able to hold his own against Batista when he can't even beat Shane McMahon and Ric Flair.

JUST SAYING
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Old 06-05-2009, 01:10 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santino=Greatness View Post
i'm not mad about the way randy orton is acting because he's a heel and he is supposed to, but is it just me or does Orton get the face like I want to fuck the guy standing in front of me? IE look at Raw when he was staring at Batista through the cage. It looked like Orton wanted to rip through that cage and make love to Batista. His "Viper" look is just turning straight gay
lol
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:15 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme Olajuwon View Post
He's a HEEL, that's what he's supposed to look like. He's supposed to look weaker than his face opposition. The audience is supposed to feel like the face could beat the shit out of him, and when he cheats to win, the audience is supposed to be outraged because if it had only been a fair fight, the face would've won. All the great heel champions have done this. Flair did it, HBK did it, Hogan did it, HHH did it, Edge is currently doing it. Yes, occasionally you have a monster heel, but that's not Orton and you know it.
According to you, Triple H is the worst heel champion ever then, considering he's always been booked strong against his face opposition. I mean really, it's hard to find a Triple H feud where he wasn't burying and beating the shit out of his opponent (Goldberg being the rare exception). On the first fact I disagree, and believe that Triple H is one of the best heel champions in WWE history.

There's nothing that HHH has that Orton doesn't have, other than the actual book in hand. But he's proof that a strong heel champion can work. In fact, it makes it all the more special when the underdog face gets that big win.
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:17 PM   #30
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Old 06-06-2009, 12:35 AM   #31
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Triple H is the perfect choice to pass the title of "strong heel" over to someone. That is a huge reason I was disappointed when Triple H made sure Orton was just another heel champion in the sea of heel champions.
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Old 06-06-2009, 06:43 PM   #32
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Honestly the booking just defies logic. He's able to get on a crazy roll, be this uber badass, win the rumble, kick ass, take names... then suddenly he can't even deal with Shane McMahon.

I don't mind the Flair thing as much because Flair is a little more legit than Shane... but it just doesn't make sense. If he was a chicken shit the whole time it'd add up. But there's not method to the madness. It's like sometimes he'll do something badass and then for the next three weeks be a huge punk and need help beating Santino Marella. It's just utterly stupid. There's no substance, it's just a bunch of things that happen.
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Old 06-06-2009, 11:30 PM   #33
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I have to completely agree with Gorgeous Dale Newstead.
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:32 PM   #34
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It's actually almost a reverse of when Mysterio was champion. He would get squashed on Smackdown, but when it came to the PPV, you just couldn't beat him period. (Well, untill he did.)
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:41 PM   #35
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This is TPWW. If he isn't kicking the ass of Big Show, Batista, and Triple H single-handedly, they'd complain about him "looking week."
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Old 06-07-2009, 08:41 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
Honestly the booking just defies logic. He's able to get on a crazy roll, be this uber badass, win the rumble, kick ass, take names... then suddenly he can't even deal with Shane McMahon.

Sounds like Shanes fault.

Remember back in 2003, when Kane was unmasked? He was a raging lunatic, destroying everything in his path.

Then Shane came along and slowed him up, gave him some trouble.

Hell, Shane even beat heel Vince at Wrestlemania...


If I were a heel, I wouldn't mess with Shane McMahon
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