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Old 06-12-2009, 08:12 PM   #1
Zen v.W.o.
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Cornette telling it like it is...lol, HHH..
From a recent Cornette Q and A.

Q.---Who is the most overrated wrestler of the past, and today?
Asked by Joe in Bourne, Massachusetts.

A.---The whole idea of promoting wrestling is to make the fans think a wrestler is better than he is, so to me, overrated is not the term. OverPUSHED is a different story. Who has been pushed on a major league basis way more than their talent or attitude should have dictated? One has to look no further than the mass hypnosis Vince McMahon worked in getting the Ultimate Warrior over. A body with no substance, Warrior was stunningly bad when he entered the business, and never got much better. His work sucked, he was dangerous, never tried to get better, he couldn't cut a coherent promo, he had a superstar attitude, he was a prick to many of his fellow talents, and he was pushed solely because of Vince's fascination with steroided-up male bodies. He had a 3 or 4 year run before both his bad attitude and the public seeing through him coincided, and a 6 week nostalgia run 4 or 5 years later. The only legacy he left was that he made a lot of money undeservedly and had really bad matches with some really good workers. On the female side, look to the female version of Warrior, Sable, and pretty much repeat the above paragraph. Couldn't talk, no emotion, couldn't work and wouldn't try to learn, star attitude (she did hide it well toward those in power--for awhile), and was pushed only because of her ability to pick a good plastic surgeon and Vince's apparent sexual frustrations. I've seen hotter ice sculptures. Killed her husband's career by powerbombing him on TV and no guys would sell for him (or in Steve Austin's case, even WORK with him) after that.

For the present, let's go with Hunter Hearst Helmsley-McMahon. Actually, he's a very good worker and studies the business. His promos are usually as exciting as a coma and last longer than this recession, but he has good matches. Problem is, as hard as he's been crammed down people's throats for the past 10 years, he should have surpassed Hogan, Austin, and Rock, but HHH is what is called in the business "the guy that works with the guy that draws money." He should be in there to have a good match and put the star over. Actually, he should have been fired in 1996 when he shit on the entire sport with the infamous "curtain call" at MSG, but Vince, the guy with "balls of steel", let HHH piss in his face and not only didn't do anything about it, but let him marry his daughter! And a sledgehammer? Jesus Christ, I wish he'd hit me in the head with it before he starts talking on TV. HHH will be the top guy in the WWE until he looks like Dick the Bruiser in his final days working an Indiana county fair show, and if THAT'S not overrated, I don't know what is.

Fuckin eh.

.....

Thanks, ZEN!
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:22 PM   #2
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i always thought of triple h like that

props to cornette but he should have made fun of his big nose
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Old 06-12-2009, 09:16 PM   #3
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Whatever. Cornette is fantastic as always, but I enjoy H. We disagree.
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:26 PM   #4
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Jim Cornette is an old fool, but he is spot on about Sable and Warrior.
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:51 PM   #5
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Jim Cornette is an old fool, but he is spot on about Sable and Warrior.
but not on H?

i mean alone he cant carry the weight hes right every major fued hes been in he has always been the other guy
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Old 06-13-2009, 12:53 AM   #6
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He's spot on about Sable and Warrior. However, he's showing jealousy, spite, and pure "bury the other brand" mentality in burying HHH like that. No way is HHH the most electrifying promo man ever, but come on. If anyone in WWE said something like that, there would be cries of "oh he iz barrying teh guy becoz he is doing wat he iz told by Vince McMann." But he trashed the WWE establishment so ten million internet fanboys will cum for him.
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Old 06-13-2009, 01:00 AM   #7
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Triple H is great! Immediately after Booker T faced him at WrestleMania he was elevated to a new leve-- wait. No. That happened years later when he became King Booker.

But after Scott Steiner fueded with him he went on to... form a... tag team... with Test.

But when Orton fueded with him back in 2004-- no... Orton had to regain cred by facing Undertaker for a year.

And when Jericho beat him for the WWF Title... The... Decision was reversed... And Jericho would go title-less for over 18 months.

What about when he fueded with Kane? Actually... I'm pretty sure everyone wants to forget that.

All of those missteps aside, I have to give him credit for one thing: his fued with Batista is single-handedly responsible for Batista being over-pushed today. That's the one guy, I can think of, that he elevated and he's probably the least deserving.
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Old 06-13-2009, 01:09 AM   #8
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lol, finger's got a point there
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Old 06-13-2009, 01:16 AM   #9
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Thought about this some more.

He's actually got a knack for making you feel the opposite of what happens in his matches should have happened.

His record against HBM is like 20-2 yet everybody still feels that Michaels is way better and should've win most of those.

He constantly burried Orton and everyone complains that he makes Orton look weak.

John Cena beat him at WrestleMania and everyone was pissed because he "allowed" Cena to go over him.

He elevated Batista and people know that he lost 3 straight just to put him over even though everyone still feels he's better than Batista.
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Old 06-13-2009, 01:28 AM   #10
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Cornette is the master of hyperbole.

I like Triple H, I've been a fan since he left DX in '99, but Cornette does have a point he has been insanely pushed throughout his career.
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Old 06-13-2009, 04:21 AM   #11
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Cornette is the master of hyperbole.

I like Triple H, I've been a fan since he left DX in '99, but Cornette does have a point he has been insanely pushed throughout his career.
I wonder if Cornette will have more choice words in the future about Triple H if he ever surpasses Flair for career World Championship runs...I'm already about 75% certain HHH will get at least his 14th World title.
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Old 06-13-2009, 04:32 AM   #12
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Well, yeah, Cornette went a bit over the top, but his points are accurate. Triple H is not a big draw. He's never been, and will likely never be on the same level as guys like Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair and arguably Shawn Michaels -- yet he's won more World Championships in the WWE than anyone else in history. Triple H beats The Rock 13-9.

The man is a good worker, and he's confident on the mic, but I have to agree with Cornette. If the guy was going to make money, he'd have done it by now. Triple H should be putting over a new generation of workers, and trying to make them appear like Stone Cold and The Rock in terms of credibility so that they can make money.

I still feel that the WWE depend on Triple H too much because he's one of the few relics left over from the Attitude era. Triple H might have hung onto his spot a bit tightly around 2002/2003, but right now he seems a lot more relaxed about things, and he's got to know that he's getting a bit older. The company is really just as at fault for protecting his place as anyone.

Triple H has been a babyface since 2006. The company hasn't really changed. As a hero to the people, he hasn't suddenly become a cash cow like Austin or Rock were. The Game made an excellent foil for them, but the time to turn Triple H into a mega-star face was in 2001, when Austin sided with Vince McMahon. His injury may have gotten in the way of that, but it was a missed opportunity. Now, I feel that Triple H should probably be a heel, and putting over younger guys.
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Old 06-13-2009, 04:36 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
I wonder if Cornette will have more choice words in the future about Triple H if he ever surpasses Flair for career World Championship runs...I'm already about 75% certain HHH will get at least his 14th World title.
Well, let's look at the Fatal Four Way Match on RAW:

* John Cena and Big Show are involved in a budding program with The Miz. It seems we could get a Triple Threat between the three at The Bash. Can you see that being a WWE Title match? I think you may be able to rule those two out.

* Randy Orton was just WWE Champion. If they wanted Orton to be WWE Champion, they probably wouldn't have taken the belt off him in the first place. Plus, he could have won the belt via forfeit on RAW, and then Triple H could have attacked him.

* Triple H is fresh off returning, got a big pop because of such, and will no doubt be the most over man in the match. I think he's probably the safest pick to walk out of RAW as WWE Champion.

I still hope for a Shawn Michaels return, with HBK pinning Triple H, leading to tensions and a potential starter for a feud between the two heading towards WrestleMania 26, but I'm not not going to hold my breath.
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Old 06-13-2009, 04:54 AM   #14
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I still hope for a Shawn Michaels return, with HBK pinning Triple H, leading to tensions and a potential starter for a feud between the two heading towards WrestleMania 26, but I'm not not going to hold my breath.


You say that like WWE actually plans things more than 4 weeks in advance.
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Old 06-13-2009, 08:34 AM   #15
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Quote:
he's won more World Championships in the WWE than anyone else in history. Triple H beats The Rock 13-9.
Yeah I wonder if that has anything to do with his having been in the company for a good few years since the Rock left...
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Old 06-13-2009, 08:56 PM   #16
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Cornette's The Damn Shit Wooooooooooooo!
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Old 06-13-2009, 09:05 PM   #17
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Yeah I wonder if that has anything to do with his having been in the company for a good few years since the Rock left...
Because The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Kane, Big Show and Chris Jericho have all surpassed The Rock's record, too. Triple H has won over half the amount of World Titles that those men have held together. And that's including the ECW Title reigns held by Kane and Big Show. If you take out those, the score is something like 20-13. That's almost three-quarters of what those other Attitude era stars have held collectively. I'm not saying that Triple H is shit, but if you can't see where Cornette is coming from, I can't help you.
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Old 06-13-2009, 09:16 PM   #18
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I agree more with Storm in terms of Triple H than I do Cornette

Quote:
Q: Why do you think Triple H’s work garners so much heat from people like Bret Hart and Jim Cornette? I understand it coming from online wrestling fans who want to feel like they know something by having someone to criticize, but, at least in my eyes, he is the closest thing to a great old-school wrestler that there is in the business today. He certainly seems to be the clearest extension of the Harley Race/Ric Flair lineage, no? I always get the feeling that he’d be THE MOST respected guy in the business during this era, by just about everyone, had he not ended up being married to Stephanie. Thoughts?

A: That is a real dilemma because it is a double edged sword from Hunter’s perspective. He is great and definitely a top guy, but I don’t think anyone can argue that his lock on that top spot and over all push would not be quite as strong if he were not part of the family. So in that respect his career has been helped, to a degree, by his personal relationship. On the other edge of the sword, he doesn’t get the respect he deserves as a great worker and guy that busts his ass in the ring, because there will always be those who sell him short because he is married to the bosses daughter. If he and Steph had never gotten together, I have no doubt he would still be a long term top guy in WWE (perhaps not as locked into the top spot) and would likely be far more widely respected for his talents and work ethic.


From Storm's last Q&A
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Old 06-13-2009, 09:17 PM   #19
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I agree with both.
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Old 06-13-2009, 10:07 PM   #20
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Cornette is right on it. On all accounts.
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Old 06-18-2009, 03:29 PM   #21
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The only people who disagree seem to be the resident kliq fanboys, so perhaps Cornette has a point.
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:55 PM   #22
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God, I love how Cornette trashes WWE(F) for their booking and pushing of guys. Cornette is genuis, which is why Cornette promotion is killing WWE. Oh wait, no Cornette is a blow hard. I always thought that it is funny how Vince can take piece of the shit like Warrior and push them to the money and make a ton of money off of them, while Cornette just talks shit.

Also, Rock and Austin are flukes, they hit at the right time, with the right gimmick and the right skills. They are lightning, you can't make it hit whenever you want. HHH on the other hand is a guy that worked his ass off to get where he is. Do you honestly think Vince would have let him marry Steph if HHH wasn't worth a damn in the ring? Are there better wrestlers than HHH, oh hell yeah. But it is a short list.
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:06 PM   #23
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I don't think Cornette does anything backstage in TNA. I'm pretty sure he's just there for tv purposes like Bischoff was on Raw. I could be wrong. He's at least not the lead writer or booker that's for sure.
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:10 PM   #24
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The only people who disagree seem to be the resident kliq fanboys, so perhaps Cornette has a point.
So Lance Storm is a Kliq fanboy?
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:19 PM   #25
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Triple H is a draw, is over, and is one of the biggest stars in wrestling. Is he on the level of Rock, Austin, or Hogan? Hell no, but who the fuck is besides ROCK, AUSTIN, OR HOGAN?
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:36 AM   #26
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Hogan wasn't even on the level of Rock or Austin.

Also, Dorkchop, my point was if Cornette is so smart and great at booking, why isn't he booking the greatest wrestling we have ever seen right now?
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:43 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
Hogan wasn't even on the level of Rock or Austin.

Also, Dorkchop, my point was if Cornette is so smart and great at booking, why isn't he booking the greatest wrestling we have ever seen right now?
I would think it has a lot to do with egos he's working with, and the ideas from those he's working under. He doesn't have a lot of control in TNA at all. If you ever sat down and watched SMW you'd see how great he is, or his run in OVW. With SMW he took what other promoters would have turned into just another new indy and made it the LAST true territory through his EXCELLENT booking and understanding of the buisness. The one negative Cornett has (and this is getting bigger by the day) is he doesnt have a pulse on current pop culture and what is now cool. But of course no one else in wrestrling has any clue what cool is right now so you can't really hold that against him.

What Cornett can ALWAYS give you is smart booked fued that makes sense and gets across what he set out to do. Get's over what he intedned to get over. ANd he'll do that 98% of the time.

Question for BDC: where does this mentality that is you're not no.1 you're a failure come from? It's so far from reality it's absurb man. Seriously.
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:47 AM   #28
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Are there better wrestlers than HHH, oh hell yeah. But it is a short list.
Also Cornett started by saying H is a hell of a worker but isn't the legit draw, which I agree with. Every star HAS to have a guy to fued with. Otherwise the star can't work. The Pipers of the world. H is the perfect guy for that role. ANd initially was pushed as such. But over time has been pushed as the man, when he only rarely works in that position (WM18 for example.) The only thing Cornett REALLY slammed was H's promos.

Whihc I would 100% agree with him if it wasnt for the fact that staying fresh for that damn long has proven to impossible for EVERYONE except for Ric Flair. (keep in mind Hogan had to reinvent himself where as Flair did not.)
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:48 AM   #29
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No, I don't believe it is 1 or nothing. I was pointing out that Cornette, the booking genius isn't booking for anyone. He always seems to have something negative to say while not actually booking. If he was half as great as he is made out to me, I would expect him to be in demand as a booker. Call me crazy.
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:50 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
No, I don't believe it is 1 or nothing. I was pointing out that Cornette, the booking genius isn't booking for anyone. He always seems to have something negative to say while not actually booking. If he was half as great as he is made out to me, I would expect him to be in demand as a booker. Call me crazy.
The only places that can afford Cornett are WWE TNA and RoH...and maybe DGUSA. WWE doesn't want him cause they have their hollywood writers plus they have heat with the OVW stuff. TNA he didn't mesh well and lets be honest, haven't we noticed that TNA can't tell a good idea from a clusterfuck? RoH is trying to be hip and Cornett doesn't fit the bill, plus they're trying to save their money wisely and Peirce is doin ok atm. And DGUSA has Gabe.

Where else is ther efor him to go in this current climate?
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:54 AM   #31
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I stand by what I said.

I just don't like Cornette. It seems like he is always burning bridges.
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:55 AM   #32
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He's defintly oppiniated. So basically you're anti-cornett because he says what he thinks?
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Old 06-19-2009, 10:07 AM   #33
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If you are going to be that opiniated and not running a top promotion, yes I'm going to anti-cornett. I don't hear Paul Heyman or Eric Bischoff trashing the WWE or TNA constantly.

BTW, I'm not really a fan of any political pundints either, because they basically do the same thing.
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Old 06-19-2009, 10:25 AM   #34
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Haymen does and Biscoff doe. The difference with them is they've stepped out of the buisness so no one is talking to them. PLus, isn't thrashing into the WWE/TNA/RoH(in your case) all we do on here?

I think this stance also steps on your USA USA gimmick too.
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Old 06-19-2009, 10:30 AM   #35
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Yeah, it is cool when we do it. The majority of us have no chance of ever running a promotion, Cornette does.

I'm not USA USA, I'm that one jerk.
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Old 06-19-2009, 10:31 AM   #36
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Cornett has though and extreamly succesful ones. Just because he's not now doesn't mean he doesn't have a valid opinion or the right to express it. If anything it gives him more right than we do seeing as he's had so much sucess at it.
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Old 06-19-2009, 10:58 AM   #37
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But I'm doing it pseudo-anonomously on the internet. So I'm more valid, plus I'll punch you in the balls.

Also, HHH was entertaining the last time I saw him. So I think Cornette's opinion is skewed.
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Old 06-19-2009, 11:11 AM   #38
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Again, Cornett praised his in ring work. But I can see I'm not getting anywhere and I think I argued my point rather successfully.

You can have your opinion BDC, but I think even you know it's bs.

(I'll agree with you on this though, those punditss or whatever on TV mean fuck all unless they've held/ran for office...wtf do they know? It's like if they put smarks on TV...)
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Old 06-19-2009, 11:11 AM   #39
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Then again Meltzer has been on TV discussing the industry...
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Old 06-19-2009, 12:33 PM   #40
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Also, I take back about Bischoff, he just did a blog about HHH being old.
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