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Old 11-02-2009, 04:09 PM   #1
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DISCUSSION - If Legacy is destined to split it, should ORTON be the one to turn face?
DISCUSSION - If Legacy is destined to split it, should ORTON be the one to turn face?

Here is why I believe that Randy Orton, as opposed to Ted Dibiase, should turn face.

1) Orton is by far the bigger star. The marks will always be more inclined to get behind a 'big name.'

2) Dibiase doesn't have the personality as of yet. Yes - Dibiase will get a nice pop if he turned face against Orton, but afterwards? I believe that Ted's pops will die down considerably once his program would finish with Orton....and he'd become a bland face (think: Test from 2000).

3) I think Priceless would be better served by sticking together. Let them further enhance their identities. Priceless turning on Orton, if played off correctly, could be similar to when D'Lo Brown/Mark Henry turned on The Rock back in the day.

4) Orton is not the same guy that he was in 2004 when he turned face. When Orton had his last face run 5 years ago, he played the role of a 'happy go lucky' pretty boy that kissed the fans ass. This time around, things would be different. Orton would be a complete badass (similar to how he is now), and the fans would be far more receptive.


So in conclusion - I think it would be better for the WWE to turn Orton face, as opposed to Dibiase, when Legacy splits up.
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:12 PM   #2
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By turning Orton face, this also opens up the door for a John Cena heel turn.

If ANYONE ever needed a refreshment of character, it's Cena. When The Rock hosts RAW on January 4th next year, the WWE should plant the seeds for a Cena/Rock feud (where Cena finally shows his annoyance to the fans as they boo the hell out of him.....due to the fact that the fans are cheering for a guy that "sold out" and left the WWE....from Cena's point of view).
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:18 PM   #3
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Yes I believe he will within the next year.
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:20 PM   #4
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No, Orton is a terrible face.
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:22 PM   #5
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that'd be amazing. It's already perfectly booked.
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
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No, Orton is a terrible face.
Keep in mind that Orton's character is a lot different than what it was in 2004.

The Rock was one of the most successful faces in WWE history but we all saw how shitty he was as a face back in 1996 (i.e. significantly different character).
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:28 PM   #7
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Rock's later face character sucked, too.
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:39 PM   #8
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Right now you can't have face Orton and face Cena on the same show. You really shouldn't even have face Orton on the same show as face HHH after everything he did to HHH's family. That said, I think an Orton face turn would go over well if they kept him badass, turned Cena, and didn't make him buddy-buddy with HHH.
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Old 11-02-2009, 05:01 PM   #9
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Fuck, no. Orton should be a heel for the rest of his career, as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 11-02-2009, 05:01 PM   #10
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No, Orton is terrible.
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Old 11-02-2009, 05:05 PM   #11
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they tried to have Orton face once..... it didn't work.... he's much better as a heel.... give DiBiase a chance to run with the "face" ball
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Old 11-02-2009, 05:45 PM   #12
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Orton is "too heel" to go over as a face. Sorta analagous as to how Goldberg was "too babyface" to go heel back in WCW or (arguably) Steve Austin after Wrestlemania 17
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Old 11-02-2009, 05:51 PM   #13
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Also, without delving too far off topic, I dunno about a Cena heel turn anytime soon either. I think an eventual Cena heel turn could be handled much like Hogan's heel turn.
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Old 11-02-2009, 07:27 PM   #14
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Orton's made it clear that he much prefers being the heel and it makes more sense for DiBiase to go face since he is the underdog much like when Randy was in Evolution.
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:08 PM   #15
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no i don't think so. remember his first face turn in evolution did not last that long as the writers didn't seem fit to him being the good guy. he is a way better performer as a heel.
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:28 PM   #16
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Dibiase doesn't have the personality as of yet. Yes - Dibiase will get a nice pop if he turned face against Orton, but afterwards? I believe that Ted's pops will die down considerably once his program would finish with Orton....and he'd become a bland face (think: Test from 2000).
WWE doesn't need Ted to be a face for very long. He'll probably turn face before his movie comes out, then once the crowd seems to die down on him, then they can just turn him back.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:59 AM   #17
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Yeah a temporary face turn for Ted couldn't hurt, and then once his brother Brett shows up in WWE, voila! Pop him on RAW and have the DiBiase brothers form a heel tag team.

This isn't rocket science, people.
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Old 11-03-2009, 01:51 AM   #18
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1) If he could have one last match who would it be and why?
He listed The Rock because it would have been great to have The People’s Champion vs. The People’s Champion. He had envisioned that angle 2 years before joining WWE, but felt he missed the boat on that one and that was a big goal of his. The other being Randy Orton cause DDP mentioned that they both have the same moves and puts over his character as a heel. He loves that Randy Orton has the RKO finisher and isn’t upset with him doing the same move as the diamond cutter. DDP stated when it’s time for Orton to turn baby face he will be the hottest thing going and no one will touch him.


DDP says Orton should turn face
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:13 PM   #19
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Orton could go face this time the way Austin's character ultimately went face. He could keep all of the facets of his current persona, but be booked only against heels. I think it could work this way.
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:18 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyman View Post
By turning Orton face, this also opens up the door for a John Cena heel turn.

If ANYONE ever needed a refreshment of character, it's Cena. When The Rock hosts RAW on January 4th next year, the WWE should plant the seeds for a Cena/Rock feud (where Cena finally shows his annoyance to the fans as they boo the hell out of him.....due to the fact that the fans are cheering for a guy that "sold out" and left the WWE....from Cena's point of view).
This is such a good idea that it gaurentees that it will never happen.
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:43 AM   #21
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The more I think about it, the more I think that it makes sense to make Orton the face -- if only by default. Yeah, Orton sucked as a face in 2004, but that was five fucking years ago. A big problem with that is the WWE tried to change his character too much, and I remember people saying how they just couldn't buy him as a bad-ass. Orton's character has changed so much over the years, that if he went around punting heels in the head, it would be massively over.

I don't think a guy is ever "too heel" to turn face. There is always that window. I always wondered how Edge could turn face, but there have been numerous moments that have popped up in the last year of so that have led me to believe it could work.

Having Orton and Cena/Orton and Triple H on the same show as top babyfaces seems problematic at first, but then you can look at the dynamic between The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin. They hated each other, but both were hugely popular. When you do have Orton and Triple H as top babyfaces, and then have Orton and Triple H bump into each other tensely backstage -- the fans will eat that shit up.

It also helps out Cody Rhodes, who doesn't get lost in this scenario, like he might the DiBiase face turn. The more these two do together, the more pay-off there is in an eventual Rhodes vs. DiBiase match, as well.
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:52 AM   #22
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I would totally be for a Dibiase turn face and turn on both Orton and Rhodes. I think Cody is gonna have the hardest time shedding the Randy's little puppet and pawn shadow versus Ted who could turn on them both and reform Legacy.

Here's a total wildcard mark that will never happen but I would love it:

Have him turn face on Orton and Rhodes and do a double backstab on both of them. Have him reform Legacy with his Brothers Brett who is currently in WWE Development still I believe and have them sign Mike Dibiase from the NWA indy's and reform Legacy under the Dibiase family banner and have them managed by their dad.

If they don't do a Legacy angle, have them as a Millon Dollar Corporation reform and Have Ted Jr. as the millon dollar champion and brett/mike win the unified tag titles....that could have some potential but again its a lavish dream, not a reality.

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Old 11-04-2009, 09:41 AM   #23
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I wonder why the WWE hasn't snatched up Mike DiBiase? He's a bit older than Ted or Brett, but he's apparently really quite a good worker. It'd actually make for an interesting storyline if Mike came into the WWE to feud against his brothers because they're getting opportunities that he never did.
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Old 11-04-2009, 03:51 PM   #24
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Quote:
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The more I think about it, the more I think that it makes sense to make Orton the face -- if only by default. Yeah, Orton sucked as a face in 2004, but that was five fucking years ago. A big problem with that is the WWE tried to change his character too much, and I remember people saying how they just couldn't buy him as a bad-ass. Orton's character has changed so much over the years, that if he went around punting heels in the head, it would be massively over.


I agree 100%

People who worry about Orton failing as a face, are the same people that probably "worried" about The Rock turning face in 1999 due to the fact that he sucked as a face in 2006 (without considering the fact that he was a very different character).

As long as Orton continues to act like a badass, I believe that he will be successful as a face.


Quote:
I don't think a guy is ever "too heel" to turn face. There is always that window. I always wondered how Edge could turn face, but there have been numerous moments that have popped up in the last year of so that have led me to believe it could work.

Having Orton and Cena/Orton and Triple H on the same show as top babyfaces seems problematic at first, but then you can look at the dynamic between The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin. They hated each other, but both were hugely popular. When you do have Orton and Triple H as top babyfaces, and then have Orton and Triple H bump into each other tensely backstage -- the fans will eat that shit up.

It also helps out Cody Rhodes, who doesn't get lost in this scenario, like he might the DiBiase face turn. The more these two do together, the more pay-off there is in an eventual Rhodes vs. DiBiase match, as well.
I was thinking that for a brief time period, ALL of Orton, DX, and Cena could be face, but then they could gradually turn Cena heel. The Rock hosts RAW on January 4th and I think this would be a good time to gradually turn Cena.

I pray to God that we see Rock/Cena at Wrestlemania this year.
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Old 11-04-2009, 03:56 PM   #25
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Quote:
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It also helps out Cody Rhodes, who doesn't get lost in this scenario, like he might the DiBiase face turn. The more these two do together, the more pay-off there is in an eventual Rhodes vs. DiBiase match, as well.
Another excellent point.

The one that concerns me about Dibiase is this:

-The WWE turns him face and puts him in a program with Orton
-Dibiase gets nice sized pops
-Dibiase/Orton feud eventually ends
-Dibiase's pops eventually die down and he basically becomes a late 90's/early 00 version of Test (if you recall correctly, Test's face pops also died down considerably once his program with Stephanie McMahon and DX ended).

I don't think Dibiase has the charisma right now needed to be a strong face for the long run. By sticking with Rhodes and feuding with Orton (as heels), I think it would be better for both in terms of garnering heel heat and character development.
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Old 11-04-2009, 04:24 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyman View Post
Another excellent point.

The one that concerns me about Dibiase is this:

-The WWE turns him face and puts him in a program with Orton
-Dibiase gets nice sized pops
-Dibiase/Orton feud eventually ends
-Dibiase's pops eventually die down and he basically becomes a late 90's/early 00 version of Test (if you recall correctly, Test's face pops also died down considerably once his program with Stephanie McMahon and DX ended).

I don't think Dibiase has the charisma right now needed to be a strong face for the long run. By sticking with Rhodes and feuding with Orton (as heels), I think it would be better for both in terms of garnering heel heat and character development.
He does actually have a lot of charisma they've just had him tone it down quite a bit since he was in FCW. There is no way he will end up like Test he was not a 3rd generation wrestler afterall. He is the next Orton like it or not and I wouldn't be surprise if he started his own stable with his brothers Mike and Brett.
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Old 11-05-2009, 05:35 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by redoneja View Post
Orton is "too heel" to go over as a face. Sorta analagous as to how Goldberg was "too babyface" to go heel back in WCW or (arguably) Steve Austin after Wrestlemania 17
'
I really enjoyed Austin as a heel post Wm17
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Old 11-05-2009, 05:48 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by XCaliber View Post
He does actually have a lot of charisma they've just had him tone it down quite a bit since he was in FCW. There is no way he will end up like Test he was not a 3rd generation wrestler afterall. He is the next Orton like it or not and I wouldn't be surprise if he started his own stable with his brothers Mike and Brett.
I hope you're right.

However - I still think that at this point in their careers, it would be better for the WWE to keep Priceless (Rhodes/Dibiase) together for a little while longer. Let the both of them be dastardly heels as a tandem.
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Old 11-05-2009, 05:52 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redoneja View Post
Orton is "too heel" to go over as a face. Sorta analagous as to how Goldberg was "too babyface" to go heel back in WCW or (arguably) Steve Austin after Wrestlemania 17
I don't agree with this statement at all. If the WWE could take a sledge hammer wielding sociopath in Triple H and make him a face, then I believe that anything is possible.

Remember - the fans love winners....and people with an impeccable track record.

Not only do I think that it would be relatively easy to turn Orton face, but I also think that he'd be pretty damned successful........assuming that he keeps his badass personna.

The biggest mistake that the WWE makes with their faces (that have just become faces after having a lengthy and successful run as a heel), is that they change the character too drastically....to the point where the newly turned face starts kissing the fans' ass.

Orton's character is quite a bit different from the one we saw in 2004, and I don't think that even the WWE are dumb enough to f*ck him up this time around (knock on wood )
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Old 11-05-2009, 05:56 PM   #30
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'
I really enjoyed Austin as a heel post Wm17
Austin was awesome as a heel post Wrestlemania 17, and the WWE made a GIGANTIC mistake in turning him back to his old and outdated face personna.

If the WWE had any common fucking sense, they would have kept Austin heel until Wrestlemania 18......where he would have done the clean job to a face Triple H.

Instead - Triple H went up against an extremely poorly built up Jericho, while Austin's character got screwed worse than an 8 year old at Neverland ranch.
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Old 11-05-2009, 06:52 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyman View Post
Austin was awesome as a heel post Wrestlemania 17, and the WWE made a GIGANTIC mistake in turning him back to his old and outdated face personna.

If the WWE had any common fucking sense, they would have kept Austin heel until Wrestlemania 18......where he would have done the clean job to a face Triple H.

Instead - Triple H went up against an extremely poorly built up Jericho, while Austin's character got screwed worse than an 8 year old at Neverland ranch.
Thought it was a big mistake when they let Austin talk them into going over Scott Hall when he was supposed to get the win true story.
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Old 11-05-2009, 08:49 PM   #32
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Rock's later face character sucked, too.
No it didn't. That's a dumb statement. He was way better as a heel, but he was pretty money as a face. The fans just got sick and tired of him leaving and coming back all the time.
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Old 11-05-2009, 08:53 PM   #33
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Also Austin was an awesome heel, but it wasn't right to turn him him heel. Fans identified with him too much as a face and felt turned on and beaten, and thus stopped watching. Some say it was the beginning of the end of that really hot period b/w 98-2001 (well mid 2001)
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:25 AM   #34
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I really like the pairing of Codes/Dibiase. I see them as their own team now, and not just part of Legacy. With the rub that DX gave them just months ago I say keep them together for a while longer, but if they must split at least keep the two associated and working together while they strike out on their own.
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Old 11-07-2009, 01:18 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
Also Austin was an awesome heel, but it wasn't right to turn him him heel. Fans identified with him too much as a face and felt turned on and beaten, and thus stopped watching. Some say it was the beginning of the end of that really hot period b/w 98-2001 (well mid 2001)
I agree with this completely. The initial shock factor was amazing, and Austin played the part well. It really did make sense that he would do anything and everything to be the WWE Champion. I personally know some people who stopped watching, though, because they felt betrayed by Austin.

What they really needed to do was have a new hot babyface step up right away to challenge Austin. The Undertaker, Kane, Chris Jericho and Chris Benoit were all suitable filler opponents for Austin, don't get me wrong; but they just don't have the weight of some other names in the business. Triple H, for example, would have made perfect sense. Or bringing in Booker T with some credibility.
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Old 11-10-2009, 02:13 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyman View Post
By turning Orton face, this also opens up the door for a John Cena heel turn.

If ANYONE ever needed a refreshment of character, it's Cena. When The Rock hosts RAW on January 4th next year, the WWE should plant the seeds for a Cena/Rock feud (where Cena finally shows his annoyance to the fans as they boo the hell out of him.....due to the fact that the fans are cheering for a guy that "sold out" and left the WWE....from Cena's point of view).


It's about time we had a big heel/face turn sometime soon. I know we've seen Punk and Batista recently, but nothing really monumental. Massive shocking heel turns were one of the things I used to love about watching wrestling
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:24 PM   #37
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btw, i think a face Edge and Orton would be VERY possible.
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:26 PM   #38
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btw, i think a face Edge and Orton would be VERY possible.
As in a Rated RKO reunion?
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:33 PM   #39
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They did DX, why not Rated RKO? Also, if Orton goes face, he needs to stay exactly as he is, but instead of telling the fans to fuck off, he no-sells them. Much like Mr. Austin back in the 90's.
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:13 PM   #40
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Also, if Orton goes face, he needs to stay exactly as he is, but instead of telling the fans to fuck off, he no-sells them. Much like Mr. Austin back in the 90's.
This is such an excellent point that it bears worth quoting.
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