Euro 2004 Predictions

[toxic rooster]

Oh yeah WWEngland, let me explain this 2-2 draw thing.

When two teams are level on points, the first thing used to seperate them in this tournament is the result between the two teams, yes? With three teams level on points however, they use the results all three teams had with each other. Essentially you make a little mini table as follows...

Denmark 0-0 Italy
Italy 1-1 Sweden
Sweden 2-2 Denmark

Sweden [2 0 2 0 3 3 2]
Denmark [2 0 2 0 2 2 2]
Italy [2 0 2 0 1 1 2]

That's played, won, drawn, lost, for, against and points there (the reply box won't let me make a little table). The three teams are all level on points and goal difference, so you go next to goals scored, on which Italy are bottom.

Just be grateful than the Danes and the Swedes didn't draw 1-1 and the Italians didn't win 2-0, else Italy and Denmark would have been dead level, and THAT would have gotten confusing.

But Italy would have had a +2 goal difference, and Denmark 0.

Unless I'm mistaken, which I probably am :?:

[toxic rooster]

It was unrealistic, hence why everyone jumped on them right away. Lord knows why they didn't try and be subtle about it, let the West Germans score a late winner or something. Hell, they should have played out a 5-4 thriller. Asides from the fact it'd have the same effect, it would have given everyone a great game to watch, people might have fallen for it and their players stood a better chance of winning the golden boot.

But they wouldn't trust the other team to put 3 or 4 goals on them and allow them to come back, though.

[91]

But Italy would have had a +2 goal difference, and Denmark 0.

Unless I'm mistaken, which I probably am :?:

They would have had a 0-0 draw with each other, both teams would have beaten Bulgaria 2-0 and both teams would have drawn 1-1 with Sweden, tying them.

[toxic rooster]

My bad, forgot about Bulgaria :o

[91]

But they wouldn't trust the other team to put 3 or 4 goals on them and allow them to come back, though.

Why not? They trusted each other to play out a 1-0 victory. All they'd have to do is make sure the West Germans kept scoring and the Austrians kept equalising, one at a time, so nobody could easily screw the other.

[Skeletor2]

It's only the goal difference between the 3 sides. You look at it as if you were ignoring the results against Bulgaria.

Denmark would have scored 2 conceeded 2
Sweden would have scored 3 conceeded 3
Italy would have scored 1 conceeded 1

That's why no matter what Italy couldn't get through if it finished 2-2 or any higher of a draw.

[toxic rooster]

Here's the final group C table.

[toxic rooster]

It's only the goal difference between the 3 sides. You look at it as if you were ignoring the results against Bulgaria.

Denmark would have scored 2 conceeded 2
Sweden would have scored 3 conceeded 3
Italy would have scored 1 conceeded 1

That's why no matter what Italy couldn't get through if it finished 2-2 or any higher of a draw.

That's only because the 3 teams finished equal on points?

I'm confusing myself.

[Skeletor2]

Yes

[toxic rooster]

So how would they have decided had Italy beat Bulgaria 2-0 and Denmark and Sweden drew 1-1?

[Skeletor2]

Maybe combined hair length of squad. I dunno.

[toxic rooster]

They would have had to have done something crazy.

BRB gonna try find out.

[91]

In the past, the backup plan for such scenarios (which have occassionally threatened to, but rarely do) is to draw lots. I'm not sure what that means exactly, but that's what it's called anyway.

The one time I can remember this happening was in the 1990 world cup when Ireland and Holland had the same results (both drew their opener 1-1, their next game 0-0 and then finished by drawing 1-1 with each other). Both were through, but one team had to finish second and face Romania and one had to finish third and face West Germany. As it turned out, Ireland won the drawing of lots and reached the quarters whereas Holland lost and went out in the next round.

[91]

Oh no, a revelation just struck me. Let's say England beat Portugal (feasible) and let's say the Germans beat the Czechs tomorrow (feasible) then beat the Swedes in the quarter finals (also feasible). You know what that means...

[toxic rooster]

No, I'm completely stupid.

What does it mean :rant:.

[Ricky]

Oh no, a revelation just struck me. Let's say England beat Portugal (feasible) and let's say the Germans beat the Czechs tomorrow (feasible) then beat the Swedes in the quarter finals (also feasible). You know what that means...
:D

[Ian]

Football violence?

[The Duck]

Hopefully tonight will put to an end the stupid way UEFA does things in qualifying groups. Goal difference is a simple, effective formula for deciding who goes through. How can it make sense to use a system where they effectively deem some games more important than others at the end?

Italy had the worst goal difference though so all is not so bad. It should wake them up to the fact that defending one-goal leads is a shitty tactic. It should...but it won't.

[toxic rooster]

well it effectively meant that Italy could have won 100-0 and not gone through, so it is screwy.

[91]

I think there's a half truth in that - when two teams are level on points then deciding their position on the result between the two, regardless of goal difference, seems fair enough. This stuff with three teams being tied and it not making a difference if Italy had won 1,000,000-0 is just overcomplicating matters. Yes, it didn't make a difference because Italy would have lost on goal difference anyway, but it's confused a lot of people unnecessarily.

[toxic rooster]

Lol, just watching Wimbledon and they were showing Goran Ivanesivic watching the football match last night.
:D

Well it serves him right for beating Pat Rafter :foc:

[toxic rooster]

I think there's a half truth in that - when two teams are level on points then deciding their position on the result between the two, regardless of goal difference, seems fair enough. This stuff with three teams being tied and it not making a difference if Italy had won 1,000,000-0 is just overcomplicating matters. Yes, it didn't make a difference because Italy would have lost on goal difference anyway, but it's confused a lot of people unnecessarily.

Are you trying to say that it's all right for 2 teams tied on points, but no more?

[91]

I know it seems a bit contradictory, but it's simpler. The only things that should be allowed to be confusing in football are a) the offside rule, b) Emile Heskeys love affair with the England team and c) Aussie fans whining "give us a free world cup place for absolutely nothing, it's not fair otherwise".

**edit** When two teams are level on points and they tied in their game, it goes down to goal difference in all matches anyway. When three teams are level on points, if their mini-table (the one which decreed Sweden and Denmark would advance with a 2-2, irregardless of Italy's score) is tied on points, as it was tonight, if it then also went to goal difference in all matches (allowing Italy to thrash Bulgaria and advance) then that would remain consistent, thus it would be fair, and I'm a genius. :cool:

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Italy paid the price for being so negative against Sweden in the second half.

[91]

They paid the price for being so negative in most of the tournament, frankly. Here I was predicting them to win the whole thing and they really dissapoint. Regardless of the complications and conspiracy theories, they don't deserve to go through after that effort.

It's weird, my track record with calling domestic tournament remains excellent (I refer everyone back to the Porto deal :cool: ) but with international tournaments, I suck. Asides from the 98 WC, I've drawn a blank (usually a very poor blank, as in this case) every time.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

They should have brought Baggio for one last hurrah. He would have put everything into winning the games, unlike Del Piero who looks like he'd rather be at home eating pies.

[Dazz]

I understood the consiquences of all the results tonight, but I never tried explaining it, I read 91's post and thought he put it very well, I guess not :nono:

Anyways, I haven't decided entirely if I think it is rigged or not, but at present I don't think it was rigged, purely because Denmark were 2-1 up and going through, and Sweden would have gone out had Italy scored, therefore Sorenson had no reason to want to give away a goal, as Denmark were through already, it was shit goalkeeping though. Thats the main reason I don't think it was rigged, the main reason I would say it was rigged was because Sorenson should have held it, and then the Swede's just pissed around after scoring, so it makes it look like (as the pundits mentioned) if after 80 minutes it was 2-2 they'd have a hard job disguising it if it was rigged, so they left it late and Sorenson knew it was the last chance for the Swede's so he fluffed it. These make my feelings of whether or not it was rigged about 50/50, but I think that both teams did try, so t just gets the edge it wasn't rigged.

Like 2Pac's death, it was all done in very suspicious circumstances.

[Dazz]

Here I was predicting them to win the whole thing and they really dissapoint. Regardless of the complications and conspiracy theories, they don't deserve to go through after that effort.

I stuck a fiver each way on Italy to win it overall, they were never my pick to win, but I could see them getting to the final, from the start I said it would be a German Italy final, and if the Germans fail to qualify tomorrow then thats £25 down the drain :mad:

[toxic rooster]

Denmark did have a choice in that situation, however.

Either defend the goal as best they could, and send Sweden out and not have to possibly face them later on, or:

Allow Sweden to score a goal, send Italy out and not have to possibly face them later on.

I know Italy have been a bit shite in front of goal (especially Vieri tonight), and Del Piero etc. didn't exactly play with a lot of passion (as ECG has mentioned). But they're still pretty dangerous on their day. And Denmark already knew they could beat Sweden (well, pretty sure as they were up 2-1 in the 80somethingth minute). So they may well have chosen that they'd rather Italy be eliminated than Sweden, as they knew that it wouldn't affect them going through.

c) Aussie fans whining "give us a free world cup place for absolutely nothing, it's not fair otherwise".

You won't be getting any complaint from me. Out of what, about 200 countries around the world that have a registered football association, only 32 of them make the World Cup finals.

As the system is, there is always going to be at least one or two Western European superpowers that miss out on the World Cup (eg Holland in 2002).

Yet we're arguing that we should have to beat such lofty opposition as Tonga and Fiji to take one of the 32 places. We should have a better chance than we currently do, but not direct qualification.

You'll find most of the Aussies that argue we should have a free world cup place call the sport "soccer" anyway, and therefore do not deserve to live.

[Dazz]

I don't think Denmark did it because they didn't want Italy in the next round, the next time the Danish and Italians could meet is the final, and Denmark know they aren't going to get that far, besies, the way Sweden have been playing I'd be more scared of them in the final. Therefore Denmark shouldn't risk getting thrown out of the competition just to help out their rivals.

[toxic rooster]

But Denmark weren't really risking their own spot.

It could have happened, but there was only a few minutes to go and Sweden would have topped the group, so there was really no incentive for them to find a winner.

I'm just saying that maybe in their heads it was a better option for Italy to get eliminated than Sweden, if it didn't affect them making the next round.

[Dazz]

No, it didn't affect them making the next round, but it affected which position they finished in. Maybe they would rather play the Czech Republic then the Germans or Holland in the next round.

And you saying about their being no incentive to find a winner means you think it was rigged right? Otherwise the incentive to find a winner would be to knock out the Danes.

I suppose Sweden could claim that by knocking the ball around between the defence after scoring to make it 2-2 they were ensuring that they didn't let in another goal, because had they tried to attack the Danes may have counter attacked and scored. Likewise the Dane's could argue that they didn't wanna risk letting in another goal so they were happy to let Sweden pass the ball between their defence as they knew they were going through.

[toxic rooster]

I'm not saying I think it was rigged in that the Danes and Swedes agreed beforehand to finish 2-2, but maybe that the Danes figured before the game that it would be better to finish second in the group and let Sweden go through instead of Italy.

[Dazz]

Thats what I said in my last post.

Theres alot of factors on both sides of it, the Italians will obviously appeal, but I can't see them getting anywhere.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Your theory about the Danes wanting to eliminate the Italians to ensure an easier game somewhere along the line is idiocy. The earliest they could meet is, in fact, the final. I seriously, seriously doubt the Danes would have made a conscious decision to let the Swedes equalise just so they wouldn't have the chance of facing Italy in the final.

The Swedes and the Danes are rivals, if anything, they would probably want to knock the other out. They went at each other because both knew they had to win the game to take the decision into their own hands. Sweden couldn't exactly give up the ghost when they went behind to Denmark, hoping Italy would do them a favour and lose to or draw with Bulgaria.

I watched parts of the game, and they went at each other like two teams who wanted to win a game of football. If only Italy had tried that, maybe they wouldn't be on the next plane home.

[Cactus Sid]

Can I just say, the look on Cassano's face will live on with me forever, that was one of the greatest moments in footballing history.

I'm just happy Sweden and the Czech's wont play each other in the Quarter Finals, it would have been a great game, but I'd like to see either of them go all the way.

[Dazz]

Your theory about the Danes wanting to eliminate the Italians to ensure an easier game somewhere along the line is idiocy. The earliest they could meet is, in fact, the final. I seriously, seriously doubt the Danes would have made a conscious decision to let the Swedes equalise just so they wouldn't have the chance of facing Italy in the final.

You're right, had I said that it would be idiotic of me. If you re-read my post you will notice I said that the next time they can meet is in the final, and that the Dane's know they won't get that far.

I have only seen highlights so I can't really decide whether the game was a fix or not, maybe I should go onto the Rajah forums and take their word as gospel :p

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I thought it was Wee Gooner who came up with that theory, and also, what are you talking about?

[Dazz]

I thought your post was in reference to this:

I don't think Denmark did it because they didn't want Italy in the next round, the next time the Danish and Italians could meet is the final, and Denmark know they aren't going to get that far, besies, the way Sweden have been playing I'd be more scared of them in the final. Therefore Denmark shouldn't risk getting thrown out of the competition just to help out their rivals.

And I was talking about the guy at Rajah's who says alot of stuff that you bring up, which all sounds like nonsense to me, like the Harry Redknapp money scandla and Alan Smith/Alan Shearer comparison. But just forget about that, I thought you'd have understood. :-\

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I see. I couldn't really have been arsed looking up Shearer's scoring record before he moved to Blackburn, so I mentioned someone else pointed it out to cover my own arse if it turned out to be wrong. It was just an eye-opener, really, to show that not all players play their best football before the age of 22.

The other thing was because it was a guy who is a West Ham fan and tends to know a lot of what goes on around the club. My opinon of Harry Redknapp is my own, however.

[Dazz]

I see. I couldn't really have been arsed looking up Shearer's scoring record before he moved to Blackburn, so I mentioned someone else pointed it out to cover my own arse if it turned out to be wrong. It was just an eye-opener, really, to show that not all players play their best football before the age of 22.

The other thing was because it was a guy who is a West Ham fan and tends to know a lot of what goes on around the club. My opinon of Harry Redknapp is my own, however.

OK, just seems like sometimes you listen to Rajah's too much sometimes and believe everything they say. I'm not denying your opinions are your own, you seem to talk alot of sense.

And after re-reading this page, I can't see where Wee Gooner came up with this 'Danes not wanting to face Italy in the final' theory.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Suck my plums, Dazz.

[Dazz]

I would, but not after the stories Moonax and 91 have been saying in casual forum the other night :nono: :$

[toxic rooster]

If you want to tell me that the Danes didn't sit down and discuss the possibilities of what they would do if they were 2-1 up, don't bother.

It's my personal opinion that the Danes would rather either

1. Have had Italy eliminated now instead of later
2. Face the Czech Republic in the quarter finals (IE finish second in the group), instead of finishing first and having to play either Germany or Holland.

It's got nothing to do with what anyone else posted.

And the more I think about it, the more option 2 makes sense - I'd rather be up against the Czechs than either the Germans or the Dutch.

I maintain that probably the Danes would have preferred to finish second in their group if at all possible (which it was VERY possible today). They knew that if they drew 2-2, Italy could not qualify ahead of them or Sweden.

They also knew that the Swedes would have won the group if they drew 2-2. As they scored in the 88th minute and won the group, there was no real incentive for the Swedes to find a late winner.

So it was a pretty sure bet that they were going to finish second in the group, if they conceded a late equaliser to Sweden. And the Danes knew this.

That's my argument.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

You're an idiot.

[toxic rooster]

Thanks for shooting me down for having an opinion, wise guy :y:

[The Mackem]

THe best ever match fix had to be the Italian relegation match fix from a few years back. I can't remember who was involved I have a feeling Empoli might be but I'm not certain.

Anyway for those who don't know about it, two teams face each other and realise before hand that a draw between the two teams would make both teams relegation struggle easier, so they decided to play out a draw. I can't remember if it was 0-0 or 1-1 at the time but one team send on a sub. This guys runs up and scores a goal. He's the only person on the team that celebrates.

Funniest thing I've ever seen in football.

[The Mackem]

oh and is this the point where I laugh at Dazz for one of his picks going out at the first round?

[Danny Electric]

If you want to tell me that the Danes didn't sit down and discuss the possibilities of what they would do if they were 2-1 up, don't bother.

It's my personal opinion that the Danes would rather either

1. Have had Italy eliminated now instead of later
2. Face the Czech Republic in the quarter finals (IE finish second in the group), instead of finishing first and having to play either Germany or Holland.

It's got nothing to do with what anyone else posted.

And the more I think about it, the more option 2 makes sense - I'd rather be up against the Czechs than either the Germans or the Dutch.

I maintain that probably the Danes would have preferred to finish second in their group if at all possible (which it was VERY possible today). They knew that if they drew 2-2, Italy could not qualify ahead of them or Sweden.

They also knew that the Swedes would have won the group if they drew 2-2. As they scored in the 88th minute and won the group, there was no real incentive for the Swedes to find a late winner.

So it was a pretty sure bet that they were going to finish second in the group, if they conceded a late equaliser to Sweden. And the Danes knew this.

That's my argument.

I'd rather play against the Dutch or Germans.
The match wasn't fixed Gooner, after watching the highlights. The match was all action and both teams wanted to win until after Sweeden scored there second goal.
It would be like England and Scotland deciding to play out a draw, never in a million years.

[Danny Electric]

[QUOTE=Cactus Sid]Can I just say, the look on Cassano's face will live on with me forever, that was one of the greatest moments in footballing history.

QUOTE]


It was hillarious, seeing him fall to the floor. Lol.
On BBC 1 lat night they were saying that Sweeden scored 20 seconds before the Italians.
Gutted. :D

[toxic rooster]

Ciao Ciao Italia
Ciao Ciao Italia
Ciao Ciao Italia
Ciao Ciao Italia

:love:

[Dazz]

oh and is this the point where I laugh at Dazz for one of his picks going out at the first round?

You could do that, or how about this, you wait till after tonights game and laugh twice as hard if Germany go out.

[Dazz]

Thanks for shooting me down for having an opinion, wise guy :y:

ECG has already given his reasons why its not a fix and why he doesn't agree with the theory previously so there was no need to state it again. And he calls all the best idiots, in the last two days he has called me, 91 and Rob idiots, true to form your up there with the best Wee Gooner :shifty:.

[The Mackem]

You could do that, or how about this, you wait till after tonights game and laugh twice as hard if Germany go out.


Good plan, don't tell Dazz :sssh:

[Wengerland]

God, it was pretty confusing last night but if Holland and Latvia draw and Germany lose tonight, that group will be settled on the coefficients, or so i've read :'(

[91]

The game last night wasn't rigged, plain and simple. I sat down and watched the game last night and they were going at it tooth and nail, just as you'd expect two countries who hate each other in footballing terms and wanted to be responsible for knocking the other out would do.

[The Mackem]

God, it was pretty confusing last night but if Holland and Latvia draw and Germany lose tonight, that group will be settled on the coefficients, or so i've read :'(

LOL

[Dazz]

The game last night wasn't rigged, plain and simple. I sat down and watched the game last night and they were going at it tooth and nail, just as you'd expect two countries who hate each other in footballing terms and wanted to be responsible for knocking the other out would do.
Yeah I was watching the game on BBC at about 1am and it looked like both teams were really going for it, apart from Sorensons "mistake" both sides were really trying to win.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

I stuck a fiver each way on Italy to win it overall, they were never my pick to win, but I could see them getting to the final, from the start I said it would be a German Italy final, and if the Germans fail to qualify tomorrow then thats £25 down the drain :mad:

Guess who had Sweden and Denmark down to draw :cool:

[Dazz]

Guess who had Sweden and Denmark down to draw :cool:

9/2 :mad: I was down the pub and ranting on about how it wouldn't be 2-2 and two of my mates were going on about how it would be and they should have put money on it.

Did you have it for a 2-2 draw or just a draw? and how much you put on it?

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Just the draw :$ Was only down at 11/8 but I thought meh, what the hey. Just under £30 made. I was so happy when Sweden equalised, and then Cassano's reaction right after :D

Guy at work is adamant Germany will win 2-1 tonight but I dunno...might put £5 on it just to see (7/1). I do think they'll win but they're 5/6 so it's not really worth it.

[Dazz]

This is the first ever time I've wanted the germans to go through, I really can't afford to lose another £15, but the way the Germans are playing, even if the Czech's are resting some players, I don't think putting a bet on any scoreline is safe.

[Dazz]

Oh yeah, and did you put £20 on it?

[Rob]

Apparently it was the lowest priced 2-2 ever by the bookies going into the match.

[Ian]

lol

[Danny Electric]

Dazz's wish should come true, the Czech side tonight.

[91]

I'm part German, so I want them (or Latvia :shifty: ) to go through by default.

[Wengerland]

YES GERMANY HEADING OUT AT THE MOMENT

Holland 1-0 Latvia

Germany 1-1 Czech Republic

After about half an hour,two great goals in the German game, Ballack and Heinz with a free kick.

Nistelrooy penalty for the Dutch.

[Loose Cannon]

The Czechs aren't even playing some of thier best guys.

[Danny Electric]

2-0 to the Dutch now.

Germany are a poor side.

[Loose Cannon]

See, the Germans want to knock out the US in the World Cup, well now I get my revenge with the Czechs ousting them. :D. ZISKATI CECH REPUBLIKA

[yianni]

Hopefully Germany go out, can't stand them.

[91]

Yeah, they're dissapointing. There's still only one goal in it, so at least (unlike the Italians last night) it's in their hands. Frankly though, I don't fancy their chances right now, and anyone who thinks this Czech side is just going to sit back should remember these are the guys looking to break into the first side with a good performance tonight, even if it is a weaker Czech side overall.

Nice goals though.

[Wengerland]

van Nistelrooy now joint top scorer, with Rooney.

[Danny Electric]

van Nistelrooy now joint top donkey look-alike, with Tony Adams.

[Danny Electric]

Laum is a good player.

[Danny Electric]

If only the Germans played like this against Latvia.Lol.

[Danny Electric]

2-1 Czechs

Go on Baros.

[Loose Cannon]

BYE BYE GERMANY. 10 MINUTES LEFT

[91]

I think "Auf Weidersehn" summed it up there.

[Rob]

Can't believe I didn't get a price on Germany, Spain and Italy all going out this round. I knew it was gonna happen. :(

[Loose Cannon]

Baros has been great in the tournament thus far. I think he's scored every game now

[Loose Cannon]

na shledanou GERMANY :wave:

WOOOOOOOOOOO UNDEFEATED. Have it Dazz

[Dazz]

Schneider is just about the worst player in the tournament, seriosuly, not just his two misses, but the whole game he put in one good cross and that was it.

I couldn't have called it any worse, Italy Germany final with Germany winning, I said about how bad the Czech's and the Dutch are, and I doubted Sweden too. :$. I think it's time I shut up about international football. :'(.

[Wengerland]

HAHAHAHA

They didn't deserve to lose tonight but if you lose a lead through negative football in one game, draw the other to the weakest team in the competition, and lose to the reserve side of a nation, many of whom people i'm sure will have never had heard of, then you deserve to go out.

That said, Schneider missed some great chances. Ballack and Lahm(sp?) were the only ones to come out looking good from that side.

[Wengerland]

Quarter finals:

England vs Portugal
France vs Greece
Sweden vs Holland
Czech Republic vs Denmark

Should be some good games there.

[Loose Cannon]

So it's

England vs Portugal
Greece vs France
Sweden vs Holland
Denmark vs Czech Republic.

I'd say England, France, Holland and the Czechs.

[Loose Cannon]

lol one minute ahead of me.

[Rob]

Schneider is just about the worst player in the tournament, seriosuly, not just his two misses, but the whole game he put in one good cross and that was it.

I couldn't have called it any worse, Italy Germany final with Germany winning, I said about how bad the Czech's and the Dutch are, and I doubted Sweden too. :$. I think it's time I shut up about international football. :'(.

Sorry Molnar is a million times worse.

[Wengerland]

LC :mad:

[Dazz]

I wouldn't say (or day :p) that LC, except for the England match thats who I think will win too, and we all know what happens to teams I back :nono:

[Dazz]

Sorry Molnar is a million times worse.
right, firstly it's Mornar, and secondly, that was one miss, the guy can at least put the ball away, Schneider ruined every good German attack, well three really, that header, the shot right at the keeper after Ballack's shot hit the post, and his left footed shot the keeper tipped over was weak and was the wrong thing to do.

Kiryani diving in the box when he could have headed it in was stupid too, wanker.

[Loose Cannon]

I wouldn't say (or day :p) that LC, except for the England match thats who I think will win too, and we all know what happens to teams I back :nono:

I don't think Portugal stands a chance against England. Rooney will unload on the Portuguese defense.

[Rob]

Portugal (come on, like I can say anything else!), France, Sweden and Czechs.

[Wengerland]

Well Dazz,i think after the last 2 days, comments like this for one wrong prediction have been harsh.

Yeah good one. :roll:

Good job people rarely read your posts :|

:'(

[Dazz]

I think Rooney will not score, in fact, if I wasn't going through a bad streak when betting, I'd stick money on Rooney not scoring. Portugal will be man marking him, and there will be too much pressure on him, I would be VERY suprised if he scored.

[Dazz]

Well Dazz,i think after the last 2 days, comments like this for one wrong prediction have been harsh.



:'(

It's alright, Dazz is strong, he can take it when he is wrong, bye bye Germany, bye bye Italy, bye bye £25. :'(.

[Loose Cannon]

Don't worry, I had Italy going to the finals too and winning it. Vieri :mad:

[91]

Portugal to claw past England, Holland to scrape past Sweden (I think the Swedes have been better, but the quarter finals of ANY competition is where normality usually kicks in), France to breeze past Greece and the Czechs to beat Denmark. And France to beat Holland in the final.

[Dazz]

You know what 91, I think your onto something.

[Danny Electric]

I predicted my semis as

England v Holland

France v Italy

Just change Italy for the Czechs.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I think Rooney will not score, in fact, if I wasn't going through a bad streak when betting, I'd stick money on Rooney not scoring. Portugal will be man marking him, and there will be too much pressure on him, I would be VERY suprised if he scored.

Portugal have plenty of pace at the back too, now that they've dropped that donkey drug fiend Couto.

Carvalho and Andrade are excellent.

[Dazz]

Portugal have plenty of pace at the back too, now that they've dropped that donkey drug fiend Couto.

Carvalho and Andrade are excellent.

Yeah, Andrade has been their best player along with Ronaldo, solid back their, I can't really remember Carvalho though. Rooney does score some crackers, and if the defence give him even a little bit of room he will trouble the keeper, but I still can't see him getting a goal. Owen may well score.

[Wengerland]

Rudi Voller has quit as Germany coach after their elimination.

[The Mackem]

:lol: Dazz

My two teams meet next round though :'(

[Wengerland]

1-0 England at half time.

Need to sort it out though, Beckham has been poor and Rooney injured after 27 mins. Good news is that Owen is looking sharper, good finish for his goal.

[Loose Cannon]

Dazz, you cursed Rooney. Great job. Anyway 1-0 to England right now. I think Portugal will score in the 2nd half though.

[Cactus Sid]

Nice bunch of cheating by the Portugese :nono:

I wanna watch a good football match, not a bunch of ponces falling over getting free kicks constantly.

[Wengerland]

We're going too negative again, "Calamity" nearly reproduced a well known moment (for him)too :'(

[toxic rooster]

Wow, possession is 58-42 in favour of portugal :eek:

Only like 1 shot on goal though.

Also, how funny was it that Cole put Ronaldo on his arse and got a free kick for it?

[91]

God, this is more stressful than the France game.

[Loose Cannon]

lmao at the BBC announcers getting pissed at the ref and at England's goal keeper.

[91]

Very late equaliser, I can just see it...

[jerichoholic169]

i thought id never say but i'd actually LIKE to see heskey on at the moment to hold the ball up for us. but that aint gonna happen.....only 10mins left....

[jerichoholic169]

Very late equaliser, I can just see it...

nice one!!

[91]

Yep, we've lost now.

[jerichoholic169]

ack its like argentina in 1998 all over again, poor sol!! the referee is awful IMO

[Loose Cannon]

lol, wtf just happend?? I thought England scored

[jerichoholic169]

my god what the hell have england done to this referee - we cant get a decision to go our way for love or money.

if that was a foul on the keeper by terry......then cristiano ronaldo has a great sense of balance.

[Wengerland]

fucking ref

[Loose Cannon]

Extra Time. Jeez, I have to see this play to see for myself if it was a foul or not.

[Wengerland]

and Eriksson aswell,for fucks sake, we kept on going at Croatia and won comfortably. SITTING BACK IS BULLSHIT AND NEVER WORKS

[91]

Well we've not been very good, but the ref has robbed us there - I thought the Swiss were supposed to be neutral.

[Loose Cannon]

NAH, they're saying on BBC that Terry (is that how you spell it) clearly grabbed the goal keeper.

[jerichoholic169]

the referee's a homer - Ian Wright

and he's not far wrong there.

[Wengerland]

Bet it must be annoying seeing Postiga score, given that he's hardly done anything for Spurs :$

[jerichoholic169]

omg we got a decision to go for us.

ronaldo really is a diving little get - he was already half way to the floor by the time phil made contact with him. i thought he'd grown up from diving - oh well.

[Rob Ban Fan]

that was a shocking decision. There was nothing wrong with that goal.

[91]

If it goes to penalties, it's basically lost. And frankly, we're not going to score, so we're screwed.

[jerichoholic169]

jesus sweet mary another shocker by the ref

[Loose Cannon]

Wow, crazy game here.

[Wengerland]

How Phil Neville has got 50 caps is beyond me.

[jerichoholic169]

NAH, they're saying on BBC that Terry (is that how you spell it) clearly grabbed the goal keeper.


the only thing possibly wrong with that is that terry's arm was on ricardo's shoulder. but ricardo made NO attempt to jump at all and just flapped his arms.

[Rob Ban Fan]

well yeah, we wont win penalties.

Ho hum, world cup then? No doubt we'll be fucked over by penalties there too then.

We haven't played well, thats true but thats still fucking bullshit.

[jerichoholic169]

ashley cole and sol campbell have been immense.

[jerichoholic169]

omg - phil neville's fucked now.

[Rob Ban Fan]

:|

[Loose Cannon]

and Costa is still a threat.

From page two :)

[jerichoholic169]

why the hell are we still lobbing long balls forward to the box when we have the two smallest strikers ever

[Rob Ban Fan]

we're out

That goal was our last chance and it was wrongly disallowed. We've gone to pieces.

[jerichoholic169]

frank you beauty!!!!!

[91]

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

[Rob Ban Fan]

YTADSFASFAS

COME ON SUPER FRANK

Now lets see that be disallowed too you cheating Swiss cunt.

[jerichoholic169]

now the portugese can feel robbed - we are so lucky.

[Loose Cannon]

Corner Kick England. Here we go. GOALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LAMPARD

[91]

we're out

That goal was our last chance and it was wrongly disallowed. We've gone to pieces.

Thirty seconds later, THIS is proved wrong, and your remark about us losing on penalties will be the right one.

[Rob Ban Fan]

yeah shut up :$ we're still going out,

[jerichoholic169]

jeez i dont think i can take anymore of this - my nerves are shot to hell.

[toxic rooster]

SUPER FRANKY LAMPARD

[91]

Oh god, just hurry up and lose already, I can't take any more of this.

You know, we invented this sport, we should be given a bye to the final of everything, ever. It's only fair.

[Rob Ban Fan]

FUCKS SAKE CLEAR IT

[jerichoholic169]

now its sudden death......come on becks do something yer lazy get!

[toxic rooster]

Free kick to Vassell

EDGE OF THE AREA

HIGH DRAMA IN LISBON

*marks out*

[jerichoholic169]

oh no penalties

[toxic rooster]

Oh shit, penalties.

It's over :(.

[Rob Ban Fan]

the word that every England fan dreads "penalties"

oh well, see you in 10 minutes chaps. Lets hope these things can go our way for once eh?

[jerichoholic169]

so becks, owen, lampard, vassell, campbell???

[91]

OK, everyone quickly predict who will miss for us. I hate to say it, but Lampard. Possibly Hargreaves too.

[Wengerland]

COME ON LADS

[Loose Cannon]

Holy Sh**, what a game. god dam American TV not airing this :mad:

[Loose Cannon]

Figo, Ronaldo, Costa, Deco, and Gomez.

EDIT: Oh wait, Figo is gone right?

[Wengerland]

Owen's missed loads for Liverpool :'(

[Rob Ban Fan]

Becks, Lampard, Gerrard and Owen will all miss.

[jerichoholic169]

actually becks, owen, lampard, terry and hargreaves

[Rob Ban Fan]

COME ON BOYS. COME ON.

Wengerland, get on MSN :'(

[Wengerland]

If Gerrard was still playing then maybe, RBF ;)

[jerichoholic169]

david james to save two and england to go though.

remember we beat spain on pens at this point in 96

[Wengerland]

COME ON BOYS. COME ON.

Wengerland, get on MSN :'(

After its over,gonna watch it with my dad.:(

[Rob Ban Fan]

let Owen take one of the first ones. If he takes a crucial one like the last one we're fucked :|

[91]

david james to save two and england to go though.

remember we beat spain on pens at this point in 96

Yeah, with a goalkeeper who could save penalties and an opposing goalkeeper who wasn't renowned for it, IE the exact opposite of this scenario.

[jerichoholic169]

oh god here we go.....please fuck up you portugese bastards

[Rob Ban Fan]

God i want to cry. COME ON ENGLAND. PLEASE

[jerichoholic169]

we can do it.....come on becks show us how its done.

[jerichoholic169]

what the fuck was that - we're out

[jerichoholic169]

i can't watch this anymore

[Loose Cannon]

Beckam missed and Deco hits

[Loose Cannon]

Owen and Simao score. 2-1 Portugal

[jerichoholic169]

thank god rui costa has missed

[jerichoholic169]

what the.... i thought it was illegal to stop in the run up now....god damn it

[jerichoholic169]

oh jeez this is it. cant beat sudden death penalties to wreck your nerves

[jerichoholic169]

go right david, go right!!

[jerichoholic169]

we've been robbed.

[Loose Cannon]

WOW, THE FK'N GOALIE

[Rob Ban Fan]

that penalty spot. What the fuck was that.

Im fucking driving to the airport right now to wait for all the Engliand based Portugal players to come back so i can smack them. FUCK

GOD DAMMIT

[91]

God I hate football.

[Wengerland]

shit :'(

[Rob Ban Fan]

and Sepp fucking Blatter wants to get rid of draws so we have to go through that every week. What a cock.

[91]

To be fair, the penalty spot was a detriment to both teams and there's no easier and simpler way to decide matches, so I can't argue. On the other hand, how Helder Postiga can play like shite for us all season, then stick those away like that boggles the mind. If he doesn't come back next season and start some serious goal scoring, I will not argue with anyone who tells me "hey Chris, that Portugueuse striker of yours is a twat".

[jerichoholic169]

so world cup 2006 XI then:

robinson
g neville
campbell
ferdinand
a cole
becks
scholes
gerrard
lampard
owen
rooney


oh wait thats virtually the same team as now....we're screwed.

[Rob Ban Fan]

i honestly felt we could win it this year, with the team we had. I am so gutted right now its unbelievable. I nearly laughed when Becks skied it and I knew Vassell was going to miss that :|

GOD

[Cactus Sid]

what the.... i thought it was illegal to stop in the run up now....god damn it

It should be illegal, because its downright disgraceful. But hey, another example of the cheating you get on the continent.

As it stands, Portugal deserved to go through, because although they cheated like a bunch of little bitches in the first half, they were amazing in the second.

All I can say is, COME ON SWEDEN, knock out those bunch of Dutch twats, and then fu</>ck up the Portugese for being a bunch of cheats (and for the majority of them being mad ugly)

I'm not gonna gloat though, some of the English players played their hearts out. David Beckham being a major exemption.

[Loose Cannon]

:mad: :mad: :mad: The Czechs will fk up the Portugese, not the Swedes

[jerichoholic169]

It should be illegal, because its downright disgraceful. But hey, another example of the cheating you get on the continent.

As it stands, Portugal deserved to go through, because although they cheated like a bunch of little bitches in the first half, they were amazing in the second.

All I can say is, COME ON SWEDEN, knock out those bunch of Dutch twats, and then fu</>ck up the Portugese for being a bunch of cheats (and for the majority of them being mad ugly)

I'm not gonna gloat though, some of the English players played their hearts out. David Beckham being a major exemption.

has becks actually done anything this tournament?! moving to real and playing in centre field has rly screwed up his game. we really lacked vision and looked completely knackered when rooney went off. we NEED a holding midfielder and a big centre forward (beattie) or we're just gonna have heartbreak after heartbreak when we come up against a good team.
im not even gonna pass comment on some of the portugese....

[Rob]

Typical. I knew you'd get knocked out and then every excuse in the book comes out. The ref was bad (no he wasn't), goal disallowed (don't mention the Portugal shot that might have crossed the line which we still haven't seen a reply of), Rooney was hurt, sand on the penalty spot, Ledley King went home, Sven Goran Erikkson never had his baked beens for lunch, there was a full moon, etc, etc, etc.

Bottom line. Lucky but very good first goal and it was all Portugal for the next 117 minutes The best team won and that's that.

[jerichoholic169]

the ref WAS awful, the portugese didnt even appeal about the ball crossing the line etc etc,

at the end of the day we didnt play anything like well enough to deserve to win. we have a couple of serious problems with the formation against the better teams. there's always germany in 2006.

[Rob]

Cheating Portugal. Forgot that one too.

Face facts. Your tactics were the sh</>its. You just did the exact same thing you did against France and you got caught out just the same. Your players didn't perform and you simply weren't good enough.

Mad respect to Owen though. He seems to be the only one not crying and making excuses.

[Wengerland]

The ref was bad (no he wasn't)

No, he really was.

We deserved to go out but i'm just personally mad at those fucking defensive tactics, when its not worked for anyone.Also those crappy penalties, you can't blame the spot cause all of Portugal's penalties (bar Rui Costa's) were fine.

[Rob Ban Fan]

I dont think you can deny the ref was poor and the goal shouldn't have been disallowed and we should have gone through before extra time. Id still say the exact same thing if we had won.

The penalty spot was shit but from the sound of it both of them were like that and like 91 said, we both had to put up with it.

Tactically we did a lot of things wrong too but still, that doesn't mean that goal wasnt a goal.

[Wengerland]

Cheating Portugal. Forgot that one too.

Face facts. Your tactics were the sh</>its. You just did the exact same thing you did against France and you got caught out just the same. Your players didn't perform and you simply weren't good enough.

Mad respect to Owen though. He seems to be the only one not crying and making excuses.

Cactus Sid is a Scotland fan and he's one of the few to post that they cheated.

[Rob]

If that was at the England end, you all would have said it was a foul on the keeper. Anytime things like this happen it's ALWAYS a foul on the keeper.

[Rob]

Loved how Rui Costa scored and the English fans started fighting.

Record number of deaths in Portugal tonight :(

[Rob Ban Fan]

no, i would've said "what the fuck James, why didnt you jump and try and catch the ball. You're fucking lucky we got away with that because you were poor there."

[Cactus Sid]

Yeah, but its a bullsh</>it rule, just like all the other ones Uefa come up with these days.

The basic premise these days is that if you touch the goalkeeper, its a foul, no matter what. This is wrong. From Free Kicks and Corners, the advantage does not lie with the defence, it lies with the Attacking side, therefore, they should be given the advantage from the free kick. I'm not advocating clear pushing of players or the goalkeeper or whatever, because that would be a foul, but any player who jumps with the goalkeeper these days gets penalised. I honestly think Campbell's header should have counted.

[toxic rooster]

If anything, Campbell fouled Terry, who wasn't even looking at the keeper.

[toxic rooster]

Which isn't really a foul, GIVEN THAT CAMPBELL AND TERRY PLAY ON THE SAME TEAM

[jerichoholic169]

so henman to win wimbledon then? i guess henmania is going to take over the nation now.

i think we've got to accept that these things CAN and WILL happen, especially with england involved, we've got to learn how to not play so pathetically defensively and be able to put the game beyond the opposition, just like we did against croatia and switzerland and exactly what we didn't do against brazil, france and portugal.

i reckon the czech's will win it now.

[toxic rooster]

Whatever, GunBound awaits :cool:.

[Rob]

Yeah, but its a bullsh</>it rule, just like all the other ones Uefa come up with these days.

The basic premise these days is that if you touch the goalkeeper, its a foul, no matter what. This is wrong. From Free Kicks and Corners, the advantage does not lie with the defence, it lies with the Attacking side, therefore, they should be given the advantage from the free kick. I'm not advocating clear pushing of players or the goalkeeper or whatever, because that would be a foul, but any player who jumps with the goalkeeper these days gets penalised. I honestly think Campbell's header should have counted.

I think exactly the same other than it shouldn't have counted. It's a pussy rule. Makes the game look like a sport for poofs but the rule is there and Terry touched the keeper.

Aside from that decision, you can't say anything about the ref. The Portugal team never cheated either.

I'm still waiting to see the Portugal shot that was cleared on the line again. Who's to say that never went in? Where's that replay?

[Rob Ban Fan]

nah, Henman is shit and he'll go out too :|

we'll win something one day.

I really want to wear my England shirt tomorrow but ive been wearing it for like the past 3 days and people will start thinking i dont own any other clothes :'(

[Rob]

Seriously. Henman has a great chance of Wimbledon this year.

[Rob Ban Fan]

to be fair, its not the BBC's fault you havent seen the replay :$ They keep saying they can only show what the Portugese provider shows and they only have one camara of their own.

[Wengerland]

I really want to wear my England shirt tomorrow but ive been wearing it for like the past 3 days and people will start thinking i dont own any other clothes :'(

Same :$

Just been wearing it inside out to look like its different.:shifty: (Anyone who doesn't know, there is another shirt inside-out).

[toxic rooster]

Mt Phillippoussis > Henman Hill

[Rob]

to be fair, its not the BBC's fault you havent seen the replay :$ They keep saying they can only show what the Portugese provider shows and they only have one camara of their own.

After the game, they can show anything they like.

[Rob Ban Fan]

GOD

World cup then?

[Rob]

Hopefullly Scotland will be there so I can share the disappointment with you lot.

[Oxstar]

Ok England lost I'm gonna go cry my eyes out :'( The fucking ref :wtf: he screwed England, ok England played shit and we fucked up on penalties *we always do* but Campbell scored and the ref disallowed it for no reason. So anyway I'm pissed off :mad: :mad: :mad:

[91]

Hopefullly Scotland will be there so I can share the disappointment with you lot.

Well, when the World Cup rolls round, you might have to wait a few weeks before we can join you in sombre land. :D

[Rob]

Well, when the World Cup rolls round, you might have to wait a few weeks before we can join you in sombre land. :D

Not if Erikkson's still your manager.

[91]

Erikkson's our manager now and he took us further in the Euros. :p

Honestly though, you're a Scot (I'm sorry :( :shifty: ), what do you think your chances of qualifying are? (Italy, Slovenia and Norway if I remember correctly).

Speaking of Erikkson, I'm now firmly behind Sweden to go all the way.

[jerichoholic169]

if anyone cares, rooney has broken his metatarsal bone in his foot, a la becks did. lets just hope he comes back and carries on improving.

[Team Sheep]

Unlucky boys, excellent game. I felt just like this after Wales' play-off with Russia. You share my pain. :'(

[Wengerland]

Eriksson just has to acknowledge his mistake, if i remember correctly the only time those tactics have worked for us was in the world cup against Denmark, and the success then had a lot to do with the fact that we led 3-0.

With the talent we have going forward and to have not learnt anything from the France game, to play like that is just stupid.

[91]

if anyone cares, rooney has broken his metatarsal bone in his foot, a la becks did. lets just hope he comes back and carries on improving.

Well, he's left his mark on the championships. Next step - doing a Maradona and lifting the entire team to World Cup glory. Wishful thinking maybe, but a man can dream...

[Rob]

Erikkson's our manager now and he took us further in the Euros. :p

Honestly though, you're a Scot (I'm sorry :( :shifty: ), what do you think your chances of qualifying are? (Italy, Slovenia and Norway if I remember correctly).

Speaking of Erikkson, I'm now firmly behind Sweden to go all the way.

As long as we don't get smacked away to Norway or Slovenia, I think we have a good chance. If the same Italian team from Euro 2004 comes to Hampden then we can get results against them like we did against Holland and Germany. Wales beat them at home so it's not impossible.

[Rob]

if anyone cares, rooney has broken his metatarsal bone in his foot, a la becks did. lets just hope he comes back and carries on improving.

Nah I don't really.

Well I do for the lad but it's all gonna be another excuse come tomorrow.

[Dazz]

Typical. I knew you'd get knocked out and then every excuse in the book comes out. The ref was bad (no he wasn't), goal disallowed (don't mention the Portugal shot that might have crossed the line which we still haven't seen a reply of), Rooney was hurt, sand on the penalty spot, Ledley King went home, Sven Goran Erikkson never had his baked beens for lunch, there was a full moon, etc, etc, etc.

Bottom line. Lucky but very good first goal and it was all Portugal for the next 117 minutes The best team won and that's that.

Rob, I 100% agree with you, although I heard it's runner beans Erikkson has for lunch :shifty:.

If you want to know the two people that fucked it up for us...Erikkson and Beckham, simple as. Anyone who has read this thread will remember me saying that Beckham is a shit penalty taker, and he should not take them, I knew he was going to miss, I was suprised that the two Owen's scored theirs.

Erikkson doesn't have a fucking clue, honest to god. We were one nil up against the French and he brings off Scholes for Hargreaves and that was one of the things that fucked us up, so bringing on Phil Neville and Owen Hargreaves (AKA our worst two players in our squad) for Scholes and Gerrard (AKA two of our best players in our squad) makes no sense. It has been brought up time and time again in this thread that being negative doesn't help, and I have always said that too, the second we went defensive we were asking to concede a goal, and then we lacked attacks, you never defend a one goal lead, you need the second goal.

I forgot completly about Cole's goaline clearence until Rob mentioned it, form my view it looked like it was in, and I haven't seen it again. When I first saw the England goal I thought it was a foul, the difference between us and the ref is that our TV's showed us many angles and slow motion, the ref didn't have this feature, I think he made the right choice at the time.

There is one player more then any that I feel sorry for, and thats Sol Campbell, Lampard has been the man to, and in my opinion our best midfielder, but so many tournaments Campbell has been the fucking man for England, and we never get anywhere, he scored against Argentina and he scored tonight and they were both wrongly disallowed, added to the fact he has been a rock at the back, and flawless throughout, he really is unlucky.

[Team Sheep]

Wales beat them at home so it's not impossible.

And what a night it was. :D

[Rob Ban Fan]

to be fair, against Argentina Shearer did actually elbow the keeper :$

[Rob]

England's best player was Ashley Cole by a mile. Sol Campbell can tackle well but don't ask him to do anything else like run or pass because he can't.

Serisouly, I KNEW Portugal would win just by watching the national anthems. England's team and it's fans barely looked like they wanted to be there and the Portugal fans were actually crying with passion. They wanted it more.

[91]

Funny, I got the same impression when Beckham stood ready to take his penalty. Sod the penalty spot crumbling, he did NOT look confident, whereas the keeper looked well up for it (not that it mattered since he didn't come close to it, but y'know...). David James looked nervy for all those penalties too. So did Rui Costa mind you, I guess I must have been on to something.

[Rob]

Beckham looked exhausted.

Ronaldo had a cocky smirk from the national anthems to the penalties. Knew he wouldn't miss.

[Dazz]

Yeah I want to kill Ronaldo, if nothing else for his fucking smile when he scores/dives and gets a free kick or just whenever the hell he smiles.

Similar to Sheringham, I hate to see dickheads who piss me off constantly smiling.

[Dazz]

England's best player was Ashley Cole by a mile. Sol Campbell can tackle well but don't ask him to do anything else like run or pass because he can't.

Cole was great, but Campbell was a rock at the back too, I think they were both fantastic and probably our two best players.

[Loose Cannon]

YEAH, Ronaldo is a little prick that loves to dive

[Doink]

how can you defend for 87 minutes & exspect to get something out of a game?

we were shit, owen had 4 touches all game, his goal, the shot over the top of bar, think he had a pass to someone & his penalty! 4 touches isnt good enough at any level, beckham should be banned from penalties while playing for england, thats 3 in a row now he's missed now, again not good enough!

wayne rooney is person i thought would be fall guy from this tourament how wrong could i be? good luck to him next season as him lampard, neville,campbell,gerrard & cole where only people who tryed in euro 2004 for england.

i blame........ steve mclaren, why take a forward off who is player of match & on hattrick in 2 games who could have earned match against greece if left on? why i dont know but mclaren has something against people scoring 3 goals in a game, look at last season for boro, maccarone, job, juninho, nemeth they all had chance last season but he took them off before they could score a 3rd & kill a game why coz he has no idea about tactics.

i apologise as im pissed off about the loss, i was on floor in pub praying for us to score, honestly think ref took a bung to trow game & allow them to win?

what was wrong with campbells goal does antone know?

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Portugal were the better side tonight. England were never going to win this tournament without having the ability to keep possession of the football, because teams will pick you off if you constantly rely on a last line of defence along the six yard box.

Michael Owen was brilliant tonight, and I felt sorry for him that the service was so shite. Owen Hargreaves put in one of the stupidest, most inept performances I've seen from an international player. He had fresh legs, but spent his time throwing stupid long balls and shite crosses at the two small strikers.

The disallowed goal was always going to be blown up. As anyone who plays football, at any level, knows, you just can't put your arm on another player's shoulder like Terry did and not expect the referee to whistle for it. Always going to happen, anywhere on the pitch. The situation just magnified it.

It would have been harsh on the Portuguese for having the better attitude throughout the game, and going for it. Deco was fucking awful, and Miguel is a terrible footballer. I know Scolari has fallen out with Paulo Ferreira, but he needs to patch that up and get him back on.

[Dazz]

I have been saying all along how shit Owen Hargreaves is, I am glad some one else agrees.

[Doink]

Michael Owen was brilliant tonight.

were we watchin the same match, he scored then disapeared, thats 1 more thing than hes done all tourniment he is up there with beckham and scholes for biggest disapointment!

has anyone heard of a player called joe cole?

just i think he is who should have been bought on inplace of scholes, ok he's not the best defensivley but when he's on his game he is quite good and would have given other teams something to think about rather than phil uglyiest out of 2 ugly brothers neville.

[Dazz]

Scholes should not have been subbed, simple as. And Owen only became quiet when he lacked service because Erikkson went defensive.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Owen was sharp as a tack tonight, worrying the shit out the Portuguese defenders when he got in between them. It's not his fault England abandoned all ambition after scoring. He shouldn't have to be chasing after aimless long balls.

Dyer or Cole would have been a better option than Hargreaves. Phil Neville did his job well, but Dyer or Cole would have given England an outlet.

[Doink]

Scholes should not have been subbed, simple as. And Owen only became quiet when he lacked service because Erikkson went defensive.

yeh i know, he went quite after 3 f**king minutes except his other 3 touches during match, come on the guy didnt peform throughout and he is ment to be a forward, he was never there when ball was played forward and lost it almost everytime he had it.

he was getting to the stage where heskey was looking like being a good idea to bring on, thats how bad he's played!!!

scholes shouldnt have been subbed, tell me 1 thing he's done, absolutly nothing, dyer, cole or even butt if not injured should have played instead of him, i know its easy to say now but i was saying this after first game!

our biggest mistake was not taking defoe as think he would have done more than darious and heskey put together!

[Doink]

Owen was sharp as a tack tonight, worrying the shit out the Portuguese defenders when he got in between them. It's not his fault England abandoned all ambition after scoring. He shouldn't have to be chasing after aimless long balls.

Dyer or Cole would have been a better option than Hargreaves. Phil Neville did his job well, but Dyer or Cole would have given England an outlet.

why the f**k are people prasing owen he did nothing, his goal was due to bad defending and he never looked like scoring as its clear he has no confidence while playing for england!

owen was as sharp as an inatimant object he was pure rubbish along with beckham & scholes. i was excpecting scholes to be running, passing, shooting,scoring,being the scholes of old especially as he'd scored & broke his duck in last game, the way he played i think it'll be 30+ games before he scores again!

[El Capitano Gatisto]

His finish was outstanding. Now shut the fuck up.

[Doink]

His finish was outstanding. Now shut the fuck up.

it was a good finish dont get me wrong, but are you seriously telling me your happy with the way he played?

if you are your talking out of your ass, it was a good finish nothing more nothing less, it was due to bad defending and slow keeper reactions as was the header they scored, i suppose that was outstanding aswell was it?

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Fucking hell, he scored. He's a striker, he scores fucking goals, and he fucking scored.

Does that add up for you? He can only score when he gets the chance, it's not his fucking fault Sven decided to give the game up when Rooney went off. England decided there and then to stop playing. Owen was pulling the defenders left, right, and all over the place, and causing them all sorts of trouble in the first 20 minutes.

Ashley Cole was also magnificent, as was Gary Neville. England were let down by a manager who doesn't have the balls to see out a game and play his own way.

[Doink]

Fucking hell, he scored. He's a striker, he scores fucking goals, and he fucking scored.

Does that add up for you? He can only score when he gets the chance, it's not his fucking fault Sven decided to give the game up when Rooney went off. England decided there and then to stop playing. Owen was pulling the defenders left, right, and all over the place, and causing them all sorts of trouble in the first 20 minutes.

Ashley Cole was also magnificent, as was Gary Neville. England were let down by a manager who doesn't have the balls to see out a game and play his own way.

you got 3 things right. neville and cole :y: for way they played throughout, also sven got tactics wrong again :y:

but you said owen is a striker who scores goals yes this is true but he scored once and thats not enough for me, i dont want to see him pulling defenders out to the left or right as that leaves us wit f all up frount, he should be using his pace and playing off the last man. he didnt do this enough for me.

i am not blaming owen for loss as i blame sven & mclaren, if we want to win anything, we need to bring in someone new such as curbishly as think he would get tactics right then tony adams or ian wright, even gazza to go in at half time if losing & show them what it means to be english and restore some pride in them!

id show footage of ian wright after rooney scored, tony adams when captain singing his heart out to national anthem and gazza pissed during his itv spell at last world cup when went interviewing on streets. you can see theyd do anything to be able to pull that dhirt on again and thats what we need some pride putting back into the team.

a forigner canot manage a national side as has conflickting interest in my opinion. SVEN out!

[The Mask]

Okay, haven't seen the match yet, but if we played defensively when we were only 1-0 up, then we deserve to lose. It's a stupid fucking tactic in the first place, and after the France game, you'd think a guy who makes as much money as Sven to come up with these decisions without much of a problem.

[Danny Electric]

Just got back in after a night out.
What the hell was Erikson doing. The long balls to Owen and Rooney/Vassel had no effect and after the goal we played to defensive. Just like our exit against Brazil, thought he would have learnt his lesson.
I hate Ronaldo, he's a cocky shite. Diving like a madman.
Did Scholes go off because of an injury?

[diothoir]

Never mind, chaps. Stiff upper lip and all that. :shifty:

http://www.stanjames.com/gamesroom/freekick/

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