MLB 2005 Season Thread

[Loose Cannon]

:wave:

[RoXer]

Gotta change my avatar

[Dragon]

8 in a row.

[OssMan]

How did they clinch division...I thought if the Red Sox win tommorow they have the same record :?:

[Savio]

8-3 :cool:

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Damn, I seriously didn't know the Yanks could clinch with just 1 win......the radio station I listen to had been going on all week about how the Yanks/Sox would have a Monday AL East playoff game if the Sox won 2 and the Yanks won 1, obviously that was wrong :wtf: The people at that station must be retarded

Anyways, assuming the Sox get the WC, they'll be playing the ChiSox....I honestly like their chances more than the Yanks' against the Angels, but still I think we're headed for a 3rd straight Yanks/Sox ALCS

Onto NL matters, I'll be the first to admit that I thought the Mets had enough to take the NL East this year (that, combined with an unwillingness to not rank them at the top because of bias). It didn't happen (obviously) but at least they are still better than they have been in years...the goods outweighed the bads. I can only imagine where they'd be now if they had those wins back that Looper and the 'pen blew (I can think of at least 15 offhand)

I'm already looking forward to seeing what they do this offseason. I think they need one more decent bat and they should pursue Billy Wagner or BJ Ryan to close. They were going to go after Paul Konerko at 1B...but Mike Jacobs eliminated the need to do that (thank fuck, I don't want Konerko). I'm also thinking Beltran will be MUCH better next year...it even took A-Rod a year to adjust to NY. <s>The assassination of Bobby Cox is also a key</s> They also need a new catcher....though personally I'd rather have a washed up Piazza then any of the other options.

Gonna cry during Piazza's last AB tomorrow</font> :(

[BCWWF]

Whats the deal with the Indians losing to the White Sox reserves?

[VonErich Lives]

suck it Red Sox

Let's go Mariners... :p

[The Miz]

What do the Mariners have to do with the Red Sox blowing it? Stay on topic

[VonErich Lives]

How did they clinch division...I thought if the Red Sox win tommorow they have the same record :?:

If both teams can make the playoffs, it's decided by head to head, which the Yanks win.

If Cleveland won today and tomorrow and the sox win tomorrow, it would have been a 3way tie forcing 2 playoff games.

Now, the Yanks have the divison, the sox get the WC with a win or a clevland loss. Sox loss & Clev Win = playoff for the wildcard.

AL is gonna be a good race, but don't see any of them beating Stl this year.

[VonErich Lives]

What do the Mariners have to do with the Red Sox blowing it? Stay on topic

That your favorite team didn't even have a shot.

It's one thing for LC to talk, his team beat the sox today and took the division, but your team has never won crap, so it's just funny.

[The Miz]

Your team has won crap once in 86 years which is pretty amazing considering the incredible teams and players they have had an all the times they've screwed it up. Maybe when we can afford to buy Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz, Keith Foulke and Pedro Martinez we'll have a chance.

The discussion was about the Yankees and Red Sox, I gave my opinion. What do the Mariners have to with anything? The Red Sox blew a big lead and now can't win the East, whether I like the Mariners or the Yankees doesn't change my right to express an opinion.

You think because the team you like is the best team you can just say "well your team is shitty" like a 1st grader instead of debating on the issue. Boring.

My dad could beat up your dad, VEL.

[Loose Cannon]

St Louis hasn't played that great down the stretch. I think Carpenter has lost the CY to Willis because he hasn't pitched all that great in the last couple of weeks eathier. They are very vulnerable right now. I'm more scared of the Angles for some reason.

[YOUR Hero]

I was hoping the Tribe would keep on coming strong, what the hell has happened to them? I'm sorry Boston fans, but I'm tired of the Red Sox. Spare me your opinions, it would change my mind.

[The Miz]

AL is gonna be a good race, but don't see any of them beating Stl this year.

Nah, no NL team will win any time soon.

Even in an off year, the varsity is still better than the JV

[VonErich Lives]

I was hoping the Tribe would keep on coming strong, what the hell has happened to them? I'm sorry Boston fans, but I'm tired of the Red Sox. Spare me your opinions, it would change my mind.

Well then maybe the Blue Jays should do something about it.

Yeah, the sox win 1 WS in 86 years and your tired...


silly canuck, stick to hockey and CFL.

[VonErich Lives]

Your team has won crap once in 86 years which is pretty amazing considering the incredible teams and players they have had an all the times they've screwed it up. Maybe when we can afford to buy Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz, Keith Foulke and Pedro Martinez we'll have a chance.

The discussion was about the Yankees and Red Sox, I gave my opinion. What do the Mariners have to with anything? The Red Sox blew a big lead and now can't win the East, whether I like the Mariners or the Yankees doesn't change my right to express an opinion.

You think because the team you like is the best team you can just say "well your team is shitty" like a 1st grader instead of debating on the issue. Boring.

My dad could beat up your dad, VEL.

Np Miz, you're boring, you hate any team that does good cause your teams suck, awlays have, always will.

"the blew it" well, if they make the WC they didn't, they still make the playoffs, in the same spot they won the WS last year.

Yeah, 1 WS in 86 years, how many did the Mariners have? Have they ever even been to the WS? It's like a game last year when the Devil Rays fans started chanting 1918, yeah, when you win one you get to talk.

Mariners, 3 div titles, 4 post season appearances since 1977.
Red Sox, 4 dic titles, 8 post season apperances, 2 AL Pennents and 1 WS, since 1977.

Yeah, the sox had good teams before and lost to good teams.

How did the sox screw up?

"Buy" Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz, Keith Foulke and Pedro Martinez?

Manny was a big price free agent, same with Foulke.

Pedro was via a trade.

Ortiz was a free agent, but it wasn't big, no one wanted him at the time, it was Manny who told the sox to go get him.

Anyway Wiz, nothing's "blown" yet, a sox win or cleveland loss and the Sox get the WC, same spot they won the WS from last year.

Don't worry, maybe next year will be seattle's year. :rofl:

[BCWWF]

You Boston people don't understand how cocky you are, seriously. You've had your fair share of good teams in the past couple years, we get it, but that doesn't mean they are the best ever.

[BCWWF]

Really, what is it that makes you so confident that Seattle always blows and Boston is always amazing? In fact, Seattle has the second best young pitcher (Lariano is better :D) to go along with a lineup that includes Ichiro, Beltre, Sexson, and a bunch of young guys. Eddie Guardado is as good if not better then Timlin and Foulke. Based on the natural progression the Mariners will be right back on top within a couple years, and thats a lot cooler then buying players and still not dominating.

[RoXer]

The Miz > VEL

[The Miz]

Np Miz, you're boring, you hate any team that does good cause your teams suck, awlays have, always will.
lol yeah, thats it. You caught me VEL.

"the blew it" well, if they make the WC they didn't, they still make the playoffs, in the same spot they won the WS last year.
Is it a coincidence that the Red Sox led the division from April-August and lost it in September?

Yeah, 1 WS in 86 years, how many did the Mariners have? Have they ever even been to the WS? It's like a game last year when the Devil Rays fans started chanting 1918, yeah, when you win one you get to talk.
If in 2063 the Mariners are still titless, go ahead, make fun. If in 2084 the Rays are still titleless, go ahead, make fun. How many teams not called the Diamondbacks or Marlins win the WS in their first few years of existence?

Mariners, 3 div titles, 4 post season appearances since 1977.
Red Sox, 4 dic titles, 8 post season apperances, 2 AL Pennents and 1 WS, since 1977.

Yeah, the sox had good teams before and lost to good teams.
The weird thing about this sentence is if you put "Mariners" in for "Sox" it makes just as much sense.

How did the sox screw up?

"Buy" Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz, Keith Foulke and Pedro Martinez?

Manny was a big price free agent, same with Foulke.
Exactly. No one could afford them except Boston or New York. They chose Boston. That's called buying a player.

Pedro was via a trade.
LOL oh man. Which of these do you think went down VEL

A.
Montreal GM: Man, this Pedro kid just isn't doing it. He's hit his prime, there's really no use for him now.

Boston GM: Yes! Now I can unload career #4 starters Carl Pavano and Tony Armas Jr. for the best pitcher in baseball! What a sly GM I am!

B.
Montreal GM: Shit, Pedro is 25 now and everybody knows he's the next big thing. When his contract expires he's going to ask for $10 mil+ so I better trade him now or I'll get nothing when he becomes a FA.

Boston GM: Horray for money!

I love when Yankees/Red Sox fans argue that trades mean that the players weren't bought. Do you think the Expos could've paid Pedro 13 million dollars a year?

Ortiz was a free agent, but it wasn't big, no one wanted him at the time, it was Manny who told the sox to go get him.
You're right, Ortiz was a very average DH in Minnesota. But when he came up to Boston not only did he magically get bigger, he magically doubled his home run production!

Could it be... nah, good find Manny!

Anyway Wiz, nothing's "blown" yet, a sox win or cleveland loss and the Sox get the WC, same spot they won the WS from last year.
VEL I am telling you right now your name "The Wiz" is very hurtful to me. I've already started with suicide help hotlines but if it doesn't stop I may have to contact the authorities or take you to court.

I know I always have to say something 2 or 3 times before you respond when you know you're wrong, but why does what team I root for take away my ability to express an opinion on an unrelated topic?

[The Miz]

The Miz > VEL

Yeah but Ortiz > Hafner, I mean come on the guy has more homers and RBIs in 115 more at bats, not to mention Hafner completely eliminated his value as a player by missing 2 weeks due to injury.

[The Miz]

Really, what is it that makes you so confident that Seattle always blows and Boston is always amazing? In fact, Seattle has the second best young pitcher (Lariano is better :D) to go along with a lineup that includes Ichiro, Beltre, Sexson, and a bunch of young guys. Eddie Guardado is as good if not better then Timlin and Foulke. Based on the natural progression the Mariners will be right back on top within a couple years, and thats a lot cooler then buying players and still not dominating.

VEL thinks that because his team is good and my team is bad right now that he has superiority over me, and no matter how many times I shoot down his stupid arguments, he can always say "Yeah but how about the Mariners :rofl: ". Boston has been shitty before and will be shitty again. Seattle has been good before and will be good again. Name me one team that has always been good or always been shitty.

[RP]

VEL thinks that because his team is good and my team is bad right now that he has superiority over me, and no matter how many times I shoot down his stupid arguments, he can always say "Yeah but how about the Mariners :rofl: ". Boston has been shitty before and will be shitty again. Seattle has been good before and will be good again. Name me one team that has always been good or always been shitty.

This is familiar. I just cant put my finger on it...

[VonErich Lives]

You Boston people don't understand how cocky you are, seriously. You've had your fair share of good teams in the past couple years, we get it, but that doesn't mean they are the best ever.


This is clearly the dumbest thing you've ever said.

We're not cocky, we're winning, the winners get to be winners. Plain and simple.

I'd a life long, die hard pats fan. During the Macphearson/Rust years I had little to cheer about, now I have plenty to cheer about.

Look athe Bulls fans before the run, during and after, same deal.

It has nothing to do w/ being cocky and Miz is clueless when he says "Well, my team isn't as good so my opinion doesn't count" That's crap, his opinion does count, stats, facts, etc... but saying "you blew it" yeah, we didn't win the Divison but still might make the playoffs. If you're going to state facts, like his MVP argument that's fine, and he's right on the stats are very close (of course somehow in his head this means that on Hafner can be MVP, so once again he accuses me of not letting him have an opinion while he's the one doing that to me, when I say I'd make Ortiz MVP over Hafner). It's when people start talking smack about a team that is much better then their team.

Sorry, don't get to dot that. Win some games etc... then you get the right to "talk smack"

[VonErich Lives]

Yeah but Ortiz > Hafner, I mean come on the guy has more homers and RBIs in 115 more at bats, not to mention Hafner completely eliminated his value as a player by missing 2 weeks due to injury.

oh gawd, are we beating this dead horse again.

See, here's a perfect example. You broke down the stats, I wasn't originally aware of the injury, if you break down the stats with the injury taken into account their numbers are close.

Yet, I pick Ortiz for MVP and "It's the stupidest thing you ever said"

you pick Hafner and it's somehow the right vote?

The stats are close, so it's an opinion question. Yet only your opinion seems to count.

[VonErich Lives]

This is familiar. I just cant put my finger on it...

Well, maybe if you pull it out of the ass for your Peyton Manning doll you could.

Anyway, the difference between you and Miz is he understands stats, he can read stats and understands 100>50 etc...

You can't seem to do this, you just put your fingers in your ears and go "la-la-la peyton-peyton-peyton la-la-la". Then when asked for stats you pull out meaningless ones, or don't account for things like being in the league more years.

[YOUR Hero]

Well then maybe the Blue Jays should do something about it.

Yeah, the sox win 1 WS in 86 years and your tired...


silly canuck, stick to hockey and CFL.

I know you find it hard to believe, but not everyone buys into the underdog RedSox bullshit. The Sox are overhyped and not everyone gives a shit about them.

[YOUR Hero]

VEL, remember last year right around this time, you were at Fenway Park with a paper bag over your head. You wrote something like "Who's my daddy?" on said bag... you're not even a real RedSox fan, a real RedSox fan wouldn't do that. But that's just like you, you're a front runner, banwagonjumper type fan. I don't doubt the RedSox are your favourite team, but you really don't give two shits, as long as you can talk smack in one form or another.

You sure show yourself as a shitty fan a lot of the times.

[The Miz]

oh gawd, are we beating this dead horse again.

See, here's a perfect example. You broke down the stats, I wasn't originally aware of the injury, if you break down the stats with the injury taken into account their numbers are close.

Yet, I pick Ortiz for MVP and "It's the stupidest thing you ever said"

you pick Hafner and it's somehow the right vote?

The stats are close, so it's an opinion question. Yet only your opinion seems to count.

I don't have any problem with picking Ortiz for MVP. He's an excellent candidate. The reason I said it was dumb was because of your reasoning. Your 2 points were:

1. Ortiz has better stats than Hafner.
2. Hafner hasn't been there all year to help his team.

The first one is untrue and the second one is ridiculous. In my mind, A-Rod is the MVP and Ortiz and Hafner are close but I give a slight edge to Hafner. If you think Ortiz is MVP that is fine as long as you back it up with a valid argument.

If you want to pick Bartolo Colon for Cy Young, fine, but if you want to pick Colon because he could beat Johan Santana in a game of chinese checkers, that's stupid.

[The Miz]

Then when asked for stats you pull out meaningless ones,

16 less HR's, 40 less RBI's then David Ortiz.

He does have a BA .08 better then Ortiz.

:?:

[VonErich Lives]

I know you find it hard to believe, but not everyone buys into the underdog RedSox bullshit. The Sox are overhyped and not everyone gives a shit about them.

Underdog Bullshit I agree, there not underdogs.

overhyped? I disagree, but then again, I don't see the promotion they get in other states. However sox and especially sox v. yanks sell tickets and shirts, and tv ads and hats and etc...

There are other teams that could spend the money and they don't.

There are other teams that should and they don't. One thing I've always agreed with steinbrenner on is this lux tax, he feels if a team is getting x$ to "even out" the playing field, they should be required to spend it on payroll or not get it.

Makes sense, the whole point of the money being paid by the over-spenders to the under-spenders is to even out the payroll feild, so to see owners like Minnesota put it in their pocket makes little sense.

[VonErich Lives]

VEL, remember last year right around this time, you were at Fenway Park with a paper bag over your head. You wrote something like "Who's my daddy?" on said bag... you're not even a real RedSox fan, a real RedSox fan wouldn't do that. But that's just like you, you're a front runner, banwagonjumper type fan. I don't doubt the RedSox are your favourite team, but you really don't give two shits, as long as you can talk smack in one form or another.

You sure show yourself as a shitty fan a lot of the times.

nice try, you're an idiot. I'm a fan, everyone was disagraced by the game 3 performance.

Red sox are my fav baseball team, always have been always will be.

That being said, I'll take the Pats over then any day, even when the Pats were 1-15.

[VonErich Lives]

I don't have any problem with picking Ortiz for MVP. He's an excellent candidate. The reason I said it was dumb was because of your reasoning. Your 2 points were:

1. Ortiz has better stats than Hafner.
2. Hafner hasn't been there all year to help his team.

The first one is untrue and the second one is ridiculous. In my mind, A-Rod is the MVP and Ortiz and Hafner are close but I give a slight edge to Hafner. If you think Ortiz is MVP that is fine as long as you back it up with a valid argument.

If you want to pick Bartolo Colon for Cy Young, fine, but if you want to pick Colon because he could beat Johan Santana in a game of chinese checkers, that's stupid.

I'm the first to admit I didn't know all the info on Hafner, and the way your first preseneted it, it seemed like he missed a lot more then 2 weeks, (115 at bats, would seem to be 20-30 games?).

and my statement I stand by is if a Player misses a big part of the season due to injury, then I can't give them the MVP. Same way I can't put Terrell Davis in the HOF.

Looking at it now, you make a great case for Hafner, I still pick Ortiz, simply because I've seen him more and am more aware of what he means to the team (game winning stuff), I'm sure if I watched more of Hafners games I might feel different, thought I clarafied this already...

[VonErich Lives]

:?:

So, home runs, rbi's and Batting Avg are now meaniningless stats for an MVP?

If you take away all that, it becomes either the Cy Young award or Gold Glove.

and again, as I clarafied at the time I was not aware of the AB difference.

But doesn't make HR, RBI, and BA. meaninigless stats...

nice try though!

[DaveWadding]

So, home runs, rbi's and Batting Avg are now meaniningless stats for an MVP?

If you take away all that, it becomes either the Cy Young award or Gold Glove.

and again, as I clarafied at the time I was not aware of the AB difference.

But doesn't make HR, RBI, and BA. meaninigless stats...

nice try though!

You are REALLY REALLY stupid. What he meant was that BA, HR, and RBI don't exactly prove the Most Valuable Player.

[The Miz]

HR is a good stat if the sample size is similar. RBI can be an okay stat but it's team dependent, so if your team is shitty you aren't going to have big RBI numbers. BA is probably the most overrated stat in baseball. OBP is an excellent stat because it measures the ability to not make outs. That's the name of the game.

When I pick an MVP I try to not look to much into stats. My NL MVP is Andruw Jones who has a ton of HR's and not much else. But where would Atlanta be without him? In the gutter. That's value.

[The Miz]

I'm the first to admit I didn't know all the info on Hafner, and the way your first preseneted it, it seemed like he missed a lot more then 2 weeks, (115 at bats, would seem to be 20-30 games?).

and my statement I stand by is if a Player misses a big part of the season due to injury, then I can't give them the MVP. Same way I can't put Terrell Davis in the HOF.
I agree that you can't give the MVP to a guy who misses a big part of the season. 2 weeks is not a big part of the season.

Looking at it now, you make a great case for Hafner, I still pick Ortiz, simply because I've seen him more and am more aware of what he means to the team (game winning stuff), I'm sure if I watched more of Hafners games I might feel different, thought I clarafied this already...
If you would've just admitted at the beginning that you don't know anything about Hafner and picked Ortiz because you don't know any better then there wouldn't have had to been a debate.

[RoXer]

Name me one team that has always been shitty.

Colorado Rockies

[The Miz]

Guess you didn't watch baseball in 1995

[RoXer]

Oh yeah. They won a Wild Card. And made a first round exit.


Tampa Bay?

[YOUR Hero]

nice try, you're an idiot. I'm a fan, everyone was disagraced by the game 3 performance.

...and yet there you were, the only one wearing a paperbag over his head. I'm surprised you didn't get the shit beat out of you.

Red sox are my fav baseball team, always have been always will be.

I already stated that, I also stated you're not a real baseball/RedSox, something you agree with me in your next point.

That being said, I'll take the Pats over then any day, even when the Pats were 1-15.



You realize you've put yourself in a position that if the RedSox do not repeat you are opening for a lot of trash talk, right?

[YOUR Hero]

Last game of the year for Toronto. WOO Vernon Wells just stole 3rd base. I hope the Jays are busy in the off season, one report...LOL... have them picking up Manny. To be honest, I don't think that would be smart. He's too much an air head. I hope they go after A.J. Burnett and J. Washburn. Not one of them, but both. The other thing would be get rid of Hinske. I'm sure someone out there would be gullible enough to take him in a trade.

[RoXer]

Oh yeah, Tony Clark for MVP. If not MVP, then some god damn recognition about how amazing he was this year.

[The Miz]

Last game of the year for Toronto. WOO Vernon Wells just stole 3rd base. I hope the Jays are busy in the off season, one report...LOL... have them picking up Manny. To be honest, I don't think that would be smart. He's too much an air head. I hope they go after A.J. Burnett and J. Washburn. Not one of them, but both. The other thing would be get rid of Hinske. I'm sure someone out there would be gullible enough to take him in a trade.

Burnett will probably be considered the top FA starter so he's likely to go the NewYork/Boston route. Not to mention he's injury prone. Washburn I don't know, if I were the Blue Jays I wouldn't want him. He's a flyball pitcher which isn't a good thing in SkyDome. I think Joe Myas would be a great FA pick up for them. Halladay, Chacin, Lilly, Mays, and Towers/Bush is very good.

I don't know too much about Toronto and I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the bullpen sitution. I think Frasor should close and Speier, Schoenweis, and League be the main guys out of the bullpen. There's probably something I don't know about though.

[YOUR Hero]

Toronto does have a good bullpen, one of the better ones in baseball. Josh Towers finished so strong that he should be able to garner a starting position next year. Burnett is buddy buddy with Toronto's pitching coach so he's a strong candidate to wind up in a Blue Jay uniform. Like all things, money talks, so we'll see. Batista fell apart late this year, but hopefully they can move him on to someone else (much like Hinske) Toronto has a lot of young talent that may attract other teams in terms of trade bait. Rumbles that Orlando Hudson may be moved, but he's a winner and it's tough to see that happening. Thing is you have to move talent to get talent back.

Frasor and League have great stuff, (so does Speir) out of the bullpen but they're young and I'm not convinced in pressure situations that they could hold up.

[BCWWF]

Yeah Joe Mays will be a great pickup for any team <font color=black>Except the Twins!

[YOUR Hero]

Mays, I don't know. He's had arm troubles too. So if you're going to make mention of that shortcoming by A.J. you can't discount it in Mays. Mays hasn't been good since 2001, tbh.

[The Icon of Elisim]

I'm very interested to see what the Jays do with their Koskie. They put so much money into Koskie and pressure to be a main face in the franchise but he didn't deliver and Hill made such a strong case to start.

Thing with Burnett is that he had such a distarous end to the season that he may not get a big contract offer. I dunno if its just the biasness of Canadian media but they are making it out like Burnett and our pitching coach are BFF.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Manny gunned down Jeter at 2nd in the first. Anyone see that shit? Pretty sick

[YOUR Hero]

Yeah Manny got him by three steps. Stupid move on Jeter's part in all honesty.

[YOUR Hero]

Maybe the Jays can pick up Morneau in the off season. Seems like he and Torii can't get along. I know it's more likely that Torii will be on the move, but still nice to speculate.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

3 steps? What?

He barely got him. Manny is one of the best at playing balls off the monster. Red Sox just made the playoffs. Suck it haters

Red Sox > YOUR FAVORITE TEAM

[BCWWF]

I would rather trade Morneau to the Jays for Koskie and Halladay :p

Really though, I don't see why, for any reason, the Twins would trade Hunter. It would be so rediculous if we did. I'm not saying that we won't, like I did with Moss, I am just saying that it would be rediculously stupid.

[YOUR Hero]

3 steps? What?

He barely got him. Manny is one of the best at playing balls off the monster. Red Sox just made the playoffs. Suck it haters

Red Sox > YOUR FAVORITE TEAM

Check the replays, cousin. He was DOA by 3 steps, easy. Manny played that off the wall perfectly.

RedSox should be smart and pull their starting roster now that they've secured the wildcard. If someone got injured... LOL I say, but it would be bad news as a Sox fan.

[The Outlaw]

3 steps? What?

He barely got him. Manny is one of the best at playing balls off the monster. Red Sox just made the playoffs. Suck it haters

Red Sox > YOUR FAVORITE TEAM

What if someone's favorite team is the New York Yankees? :o

[YOUR Hero]

Stima.
Let me ask you something.

Would you ever go to a RedSox game and wear a paper bag over your head? On said bag, would you write "Who's your daddy?" on it. What's your opinion of someone that would do this, someone that claims to be a RedSox fan?

[Loose Cannon]

I would hope Manny is one of the best at playing the ball off the Monster. He only plays there for half the season.

[YOUR Hero]

Honest to god, if Manny gets hurt right here, I would laugh so fucking hard. Why is he still in the game?

[YOUR Hero]

I'd bean him. Give him something to think about. I swear I would.

[The Miz]

I would hope Manny is one of the best at playing the ball off the Monster. He only plays there for half the season.

LOL yeah, seriously. C'mon stima

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>MLB Playoffs Predictions

<b><u>LDS</u></b>
-San Diego Padres @ St. Louis Cardinals (Cards should take this one EASILY because the Padres suck)
-Houston Astros @ Atlanta Braves (Awesome pitching vs. about 15 rookies in the pressure of the playoffs....I like the Stros here)
-New York Yankees @ Anaheim Angels (Definately the hardest 1st round series to predict, IMO....but I'll go with the Yanks)
-Boston Red Sox @ Chicago White Sox (Red Sox will probably pull through here)

<b><u>LCS (ie: 2004 rehash)</u></b>
-Houston Astros @ St. Louis Cardinals (Cards)
-Boston Red Sox @ New York Yankees (After last year, this is too hard to predict...but it doesn't matter because I think..)

<b><u>WS</u></b>
-St. Louis Cardinals @ Whoever (Cards)</font>

[Boondock Saint]

WOOOOO

[YOUR Hero]

Padres VS Cardinals - Cards. Although I've always had a soft spot for the Padres.

Houston Vs Atlanta - Astros. Seem to be playing a lot better than the Braves, that plus the deep pitching they have.

Yankees VS Angels - Angels. I think this is the years of the 'upset' in the AL. Mind you the Yankees pitching sucks so bad, I hardly consider it an upset.

WhiteSox VS RedSox - WhiteSox. As mentioned above... 'upset' and pitching.


Cards Vs Astros - all things being equal I go with the Astros. I see the deep pitching and Berkman, who's on fire taking them past the shell shocked Cards who come in flat after an easy series with San Diego.

Angels Vs. White Sox - End of a great season for the Sox. Lack of experience and out managed is their demise.

Astros Vs Angels. - All hail the rally monkey. Nah,.. I predict a close series, but the Astros winning it.

[BCWWF]

I dunno, I don't see the Padre's just getting smacked around. Peavy and Eaton are two real good pitchers and if they can make some things work there are a few threats on the Padre's offense.

[RoXer]

Red Sox - Padres

2 Wildcard teams

[YOUR Hero]

...as long as the Padres win.

[BCWWF]

The Padres aren't the wildcard though

[RoXer]

OH YEAH. Dunno why I thought that.

[RoXer]

I have no idea how I want the playoffs to end up. Seriously. I thought I was sick of NY/BOS, but I wouldn't mind seeing it again. It'd be nice to see the Astros go, or the Padres upset, but I wouldn't mind seeing the Braves finally make it to the WS.

I DON'T KNOW

[Joey Slugs]

I'm so happy that we match up with the BoSox in the first round and not the Angels. Let the Yankees take out the Angels for us and all the Sox have to do is beat up on two east coast teams on the way to the world series.

And since when does the team with the best record in the league have to play the afternoon game on the first day of the playoffs? This east coast bias shit is insane. The Yankees get the prime time national game? Why? The White Sox have a better record & the fans will be just as loud (if not louder) for game one. If not for the White Sox, but what about some respect for the defending champs? The Red Sox don't deserve a prime time slot for the opening night?

Fuck... the Yankees aren't even playing at home that night. Now it makes even less sense. Plus baseball (as a whole) would hate for a Angels/White Sox ALCS. It's not sexy enough for them to have the top two teams in the league fighting for the league title. It has to be Red Sox/Yankees or else for them. BULLSHIT.

My picks:
ALDS
Yankees/Angels - Yankees in 5
White Sox/Red Sox - White Sox in 4

ALCS
White Sox/Yankees - White Sox in 6

NLDS
Cardinals/Padres - Cardinals in 4
Braves/Astros - Astros in 5

NLCS
Cardinals/Astros - Astros in 7

WORLD SERIES
White Sox/Astros - White Sox in 6

[OssMan]

Anyone who went to Red Sox game today, did you see guys playing music in front of fenway park

[Dragon]

Anyone who went to Red Sox game today, did you see guys playing music in front of fenway park

Yes

[Dragon]

I'm so happy that we match up with the BoSox in the first round and not the Angels. Let the Yankees take out the Angels for us and all the Sox have to do is beat up on two east coast teams on the way to the world series.

And since when does the team with the best record in the league have to play the afternoon game on the first day of the playoffs? This east coast bias shit is insane. The Yankees get the prime time national game? Why? The White Sox have a better record & the fans will be just as loud (if not louder) for game one. If not for the White Sox, but what about some respect for the defending champs? The Red Sox don't deserve a prime time slot for the opening night?

Fuck... the Yankees aren't even playing at home that night. Now it makes even less sense. Plus baseball (as a whole) would hate for a Angels/White Sox ALCS. It's not sexy enough for them to have the top two teams in the league fighting for the league title. It has to be Red Sox/Yankees or else for them. BULLSHIT.

My picks:
ALDS
Yankees/Angels - Yankees in 5
White Sox/Red Sox - White Sox in 4

ALCS
White Sox/Yankees - White Sox in 6

NLDS
Cardinals/Padres - Cardinals in 4
Braves/Astros - Astros in 5

NLCS
Cardinals/Astros - Astros in 7

WORLD SERIES
White Sox/Astros - White Sox in 6

It actually makes quite a lot of sense that the Angels/Yankees are in the later time, considering that they're playing on the west coast. Looking forward to the White Sox being eliminated though.

[BCWWF]

Yankees vs. Braves

[Joey Slugs]

It actually makes quite a lot of sense that the Angels/Yankees are in the later time, considering that they're playing on the west coast. Looking forward to the White Sox being eliminated though.

Just because they are on the west coast means nothing. It's the Yankees... they get prime time. No one dare piss "the boss" off.

[Dragon]

Pretty sure them being on the west coast has a little to do with it as well.

[RoXer]

Yeah, it's a big conspiracey. Expose the truth 777!

[BCWWF]

Is Slugs 777?

[RoXer]

Yes

[Joey Slugs]

Is Slugs 777?

Yes sir.

[Joey Slugs]

Pretty sure them being on the west coast has a little to do with it as well.

Pretty sure?

I'll help you. It has NOTHING to do with being on the west coast. By this are you telling me that there are no sunday afternoon games for west coast teams? That it is impossible for them to play before 3:00 CST?

BULLSHIT

Like I said before, MLB & FOX have it in their heads that everyone wants to see the Yankees. Even ESPN is calling for a repeat of the past two ALCS with a Boston/New York matchup.

They might not have the stars or the stats but the White Sox are the best team in the AL. 99 wins will get you that respect.

And again, what about the Red Sox? They ARE the defending champs. That alone, even though they are the wild card again, should net them a nationally televised game on the first night of the playoffs.

Not until the last out of last year's ALCS did FOX drop their hard on for everything New York and embraced Boston. I pray that Los Angeles/Anahiem and Chicago make the ALCS (even though I did pick NY).

Because as a baseball fan, that series would be worth the trouble.

[BCWWF]

People on the East Coast don't notice the bias, which isn't their fault but they just don't.

If ESPN showed big montages on the Twins and White Sox everytime they played I would think it be pretty cool too, you know what I'm saying? There is no reason for them to complain, and there are a lot more people in New England and around there. Like if you think about it basically Massachusits, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Rhode Island, maybe Delaware and Conneticuit, all support the Red Sox. New York itself is huge, then add in all the other places around there that don't have a team, like I guess the vaginas and stuff, there is just a lot of people over there.

Nonetheless, I agree with you. When I decided that I didn't give a shit about either team anymore was when midsummer, in a random meeting, (not the first meeting of the year or anything, and one when the Yankees were still awful) Sports Center had about five different stories on the teams, including extensive coverage on the bloody sock. I mean maybe for the first meeting, but the bloody sock has nothing to do with a midseason game in which Curt Schilling isn't even playing. Honestly.

[Lotus]

Well, I got 6 out of the 8 playoff teams and 4 out of the 6 division winners, but one of the teams I picked to go to the World Series (Florida Marlins) has been eliminated.

[VonErich Lives]

HR is a good stat if the sample size is similar. RBI can be an okay stat but it's team dependent, so if your team is shitty you aren't going to have big RBI numbers. BA is probably the most overrated stat in baseball. OBP is an excellent stat because it measures the ability to not make outs. That's the name of the game.

When I pick an MVP I try to not look to much into stats. My NL MVP is Andruw Jones who has a ton of HR's and not much else. But where would Atlanta be without him? In the gutter. That's value.

OBP is a good stat, but BA is over rated? :roll:

[VonErich Lives]

The Angels get the prime time slot due to the time zone. Plain and simple, you'll get more viewers from LA at 5pm then 1pm.

a 4pm game, will cost some east coast viewers that simply aren't out of work yet. You'll loose almost the entire west coast audience.

By making the game 8pm/5pm you will get more west coast viewers for their team.

Otherwise you're telling the home team "skip school/work if you want to see your team".

I found it funny that the NYY were bitching they had to fly out to LA right away. They didn't have to, they could have pitched Musinna and left starters in and tried to win yesterday, then they would have had hosted the Angels.

[VonErich Lives]

Hero, you really need to stop drinking when you post.

Because football is my favorite sport and the Patriots my favorite team, I'm not a "true" Red Sox/Baseball fan?

Yeah, I had a bag on for a few innings. It was a joke, it was coming off a huge loss, being 0-3 and Bellhorn just made an error. The bag went on, no one was pissed people thought it was funny. Didn't stay on the whole game.

So, think what you want, I really could careless.

[BCWWF]

Can we see the pictures again?

[Joey Slugs]

The Angels get the prime time slot due to the time zone. Plain and simple, you'll get more viewers from LA at 5pm then 1pm.

Not if you listen to the reps from Fox Sports: "We had a tough choice to make Sunday night, with {the markets} in LA and New York and along with the history of the Yankees, that is the series we choose to go with."

Otherwise you're telling the home team "skip school/work if you want to see your team".

When the White Sox hosted the playoffs in 1993 & 2000, both years opened with day games (in 2000 both home games were in the afternoon).

So don't give me that bullshit, people in Chicago have to take off work or skip school to go to the game tomorrow.

And now it seems that the only way the Chicago/Boston series gets a national game is if it goes to game 5. (Game 1, 2, & 4* will be on ESPN, Game 3 on ESPN2, and Game 5* would be on Fox)

[BCWWF]

I remember the past few years when the Twins were on, our game one was always during the day, even when we played the Yankees.

[VonErich Lives]

Not if you listen to the reps from Fox Sports: "We had a tough choice to make Sunday night, with {the markets} in LA and New York and along with the history of the Yankees, that is the series we choose to go with."



When the White Sox hosted the playoffs in 1993 & 2000, both years opened with day games (in 2000 both home games were in the afternoon).

So don't give me that bullshit, people in Chicago have to take off work or skip school to go to the game tomorrow.

And now it seems that the only way the Chicago/Boston series gets a national game is if it goes to game 5. (Game 1, 2, & 4* will be on ESPN, Game 3 on ESPN2, and Game 5* would be on Fox)

You do understand the difference between 4pm and 1pm right?

Also, who did they play in 93 & 00 and who were the other teams?

[Joey Slugs]

Toronto in the 93 ALCS (NLCS was Braves/Phillies) and Seattle in the 2000 ALDS (Yankees/A's, Mets/Giants, Braves/Cardinals)

[Joey Slugs]

Peter Gammons picks the White Sox and the Angels to meet in the ALCS. Love it.

[VonErich Lives]

Toronto in the 93 ALCS and Seattle in the 2000 ALDS

Who was the other games?

[VonErich Lives]

We probably should have a playoff thread.

Anyway.

Angels v. Astros in the WS.

Winner, Astros.

I'll root for the Sox, but just don't see the pitching and the hitting has been spuratic. They need all the bats to get hot again for a shot.

[Joey Slugs]

Who was the other games?

I edited my post to show the other series

[The Miz]

OBP is a good stat, but BA is over rated? :roll:

There is not much of a difference in a guy who hits .282 and .301. OBP is the ability to not make outs. That's the name of the game.

Anyone who doesn't take (other factors uncondsidered)

a guy who hits .322 BA .356 OBP

over

a guy who hits .277 BA .424 OBP

is a dummy.

[OssMan]

lol every single topic on the Mets message board contains at least one of the following:

Sign Manny Ramirez
Sign Billy Wagner or BJ Ryan
Sign Alfonso Soriano
Sign Yadier Molina
Sign Paul Konerko
Fire Willie Randolph and sign Lou Piniella

It is ridiculous.

[VonErich Lives]

lol every single topic on the Mets message board contains at least one of the following:

Sign Manny Ramirez
Sign Billy Wagner or BJ Ryan
Sign Alfonso Soriano
Sign Yadier Molina
Sign Paul Konerko
Fire Willie Randolph and sign Lou Piniella

It is ridiculous.

Gotta love the Mets, they're the Yankees w/o the brains.

Never the right GM or Manager.

The Mets spend all this money, but never seem to have the right players at the right time.

Sox did that for many years, spending money on guys like Jack Clark & Matt Young.

[OssMan]

It's not so much the GM as it is the fans...the only smart move I can see them making is pursuing bullpen and maybe a catcher.

[BCWWF]

I'd say the money spent on Pedro was pretty well spent.

[VonErich Lives]

It's not so much the GM as it is the fans...the only smart move I can see them making is pursuing bullpen and maybe a catcher.

Huh? So, Bonilla, Mo Vaughn, and I'm sure we can list others is the fans fault?

Since when did the fans make moves?

I'd say the money spent on Pedro was pretty well spent.

This year? Sure and money is always better spent on pitching then hitting and Pedro had a great year! Question is, how much time is left on the deal and how will he be next year?

How about Beltran? :shifty:

[Evil Vito]

lol every single topic on the Mets message board contains at least one of the following:

Sign Manny Ramirez
Sign Billy Wagner or BJ Ryan
Sign Alfonso Soriano
Sign Yadier Molina
Sign Paul Konerko
Fire Willie Randolph and sign Lou Piniella

It is ridiculous.

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah, it's pretty stupid.

Not gonna lie, I'd love to see Manny on the Mets...but to get him the Sox will be guaranteed to ask for Lastings Milledge among others. I'd take on his contract as long as we could keep Milledge, but that's not going to happen. Mets would be smart to go after someone like Brian Giles, not terribly expensive but still a decent bat. Either that or they stand pat with Cameron or Diaz.

The priority is going to be getting a solid bullpen, and if they can get Wagner or Ryan they should...no way Looper should close next year. Set up man, MAYBE.....but closing? Fuck no

Soriano? Fuck that...we're already paying 7 mil to Kaz next year, and it's highly unlikely that the Mets would eat his contract or be able to trade him. I'd love to see Anderson Hernandez in there, though. Plus I can't see Soriano doing well in Shea Stadium.

Molina? Eh, maybe. Horrible arm or not I'd love to get Piazza on a 1-year deal for fairly cheap if possible, but Molina's a decent option

Konerko? OK, the people on that board are smoking crack. I'll admit, I was for getting Konerko, but that was before Mike Jacobs showed up. Konerko is streaky as hell and hella expensive. Jacobs, however, is cheap and provides great lefty power.

And Randolph is a lock to come back next year so there's no need to debate getting rid of him.

-----

I'm hoping Beltran possibly gets a permanent bump to the 2-hole for next year...I'm assuming he'll be MUCH better now that he's had his adjustment year, but he's not a number 3 hitter, IMO.</font>

[VonErich Lives]

So, the yanks are bitching about the Rangers. Well, more specificly Showalter, cause apperently he pulled his startets in the 3rd, after the scoreboard at the park show'd the Red Sox up 6-0 over the Yanks.

Had the Angels lost, the NYY would have had home field for their series.

Now, here's a better question, if the Yanks cared so much about home field, why pull their own starters early and why change SP's?

Clearly, it wasn't important enough to them, vs. keeping people fresh for the playoffs.

[BCWWF]

The Mets are just a few steps away from being pretty good

[OssMan]

The rumor is now that Furcal is willing to play 2B for Mets :rant: I can't stand him and he knows he will get big money from the Mets. Plus we already have Anderson Hernandez who should get a chance to start.

[VonErich Lives]

The Mets are just a few steps away from being pretty good

That describes 1/2 the league.

[RoXer]

So, do we all agree that the Rangers are dicks?

Could have sworn Miz and I pointed that out a few weeks ago.

[Joey Slugs]

this whole Ranger's thing makes no sense to me. so he took out his starters. big deal. does this mean if things were different that Boston was going to bitch and moan because the White Sox started only 2 regulars last friday?

and they still won :lol:

[VonErich Lives]

So, do we all agree that the Rangers are dicks?

Could have sworn Miz and I pointed that out a few weeks ago.

No, we all agree the Yanks are acting like Babies and if they really cared that much about home field should have played to win Sunday.

that being said, looks like the Yanks didn't need home field, did they...

[BCWWF]

According to Giambi, they weren't that peeved because they have played well on the road as of late.

[VonErich Lives]

According to Giambi, they weren't that peeved because they have played well on the road as of late.

Guess he should have asked A-rod, first. ESPN had the quotes, and Torre also.

It may be they were more pissed that the felt Showalter did it on purpose to try and "get back at George".

[RoXer]

Macha out as A's manager despite turnaround
/ Associated Press
Posted: 44 minutes ago

Ken Macha will walk away from the Oakland Athletics after seven years with fresh memories of another winning season, despite a young and injury-depleted lineup.

He hopes potential employers appreciate that, too.
Macha was out of a job as A's manager Wednesday after failing to reach an agreement on a new contract, which he called one of several "massive disappointments" in his tenure.

"Who knows how the rest of baseball views you?" Macha said hours after general manager Billy Beane announced there would be no further negotiations to keep the third-year skipper.

"I can go home and sleep and know that we used tremendous character to get through this season," Macha said.

Macha led the A's to the AL West title in his first year as manager in 2003, the club's fourth straight playoff berth. But Oakland failed to reach the postseason the past two years despite a 91-win season in 2004 and 88 victories this year.


"We offered a three-year deal with a club option and they countered with a three-year deal without a club option," Beane said on a conference call. "I don't think we were ever going to be able to bridge the gap. It was a significant gap."

The option would have allowed the A's to decide whether to keep Macha after three seasons.

"There are no hard feelings whatsoever," Beane said. "This is part of the business."

Macha had said he hoped to return to the A's, but declined to discuss specifics of the team's offer, saying money matters are strictly personal. His agent, Alan Nero, told The Associated Press he received an offer from Beane on Monday, then offered a counter proposal Tuesday.

"This is a sad day for Kenny, the fans and the players," Nero said in a telephone interview. "It was an amicable separation and it's time for everybody to move on."

Nero said he spoke Wednesday to Pirates general manager Dave Littlefield about the managerial vacancy in Pittsburgh, where Macha lives. The Florida Marlins are also interested in the 55-year-old, Nero said.

Macha hopes teams will take into account how the A's performed with such a young roster. Four rookies played huge roles.

"Hopefully something will work out," Macha said. "You have experiences, and that was a growing experience."

The A's seemed out of it in May when they had two eight-game losing streaks and finished the month with a 7-20 record. Oakland rebounded with another strong second half, overcoming injuries to key players, including shortstop Bobby Crosby and No. 2 starter Rich Harden.

Macha's departure didn't catch players by surprise. Center fielder Mark Kotsay hopes Macha gets a chance with another club.

"I know contract offers were exchanged, and they probably couldn't foresee themselves coming to terms," Kotsay said in a phone interview. "I think he definitely had a respect for the players and allowed us to handle ourselves as professionals. He was just a good guy."

Macha was 275-211 in three seasons with the A's. He came to Oakland in 1999 following four seasons as a manager in Boston's farm system. He was promoted from bench coach when Art Howe left for the New York Mets following the 2002 season.

Beane said the sides had exchanged proposals this past weekend because both parties wanted to come to a resolution quickly, leaving Macha time to explore other openings.

"This whole issue didn't sneak up on us," Beane said. "It's disappointing we couldn't come to a conclusion that was satisfactory."

Beane said he would work to form a list of candidates to replace Macha, and didn't say whether members of the existing A's coaching staff would be considered.

On Monday, the A's announced hitting coach Dave Hudgens' contract would not be renewed
________________________

Have fun in Tampa Bay (probably)

:love: :love:

[The Miz]

Nah Macha will be in Pittsburgh. Here's your next Tampa Bay Devil Ray manager:

http://www.canadianbaseballnews.com/MajorLeaguePlayers/ronwas.jpg

[RoXer]

The question IS...who do the A's get? Lou Pinella?

[Joey Slugs]

The question IS...who do the A's get? Lou Pinella?

i bet Sweet Lou takes a year off and then gets the Yankees job in 07.

[toxic rooster]

Go Astros, I guess :meh:

[YOUR Hero]

Why anyone would hire Pinella is beyond me. He's too moody. Players don't need that type of character, they need a steady disposition.

[The Miz]

The question IS...who do the A's get? Lou Pinella?

Probably Bob Geren, the bullpen coach in 05.

[The Miz]

Beane would definately not hire Piniella. Beane likes managers who will do what they're told and not do anything out of the ordinary which is why Macha fit in perfectly. He always did nothing.

[YOUR Hero]

Not too sure I agree with the firing of Alan Trammell. I'll admit I don't follow the Tigers at all, but really, they should have let him turn around Detroit. I'd like to her other people's thoughts on this matter.

[RoXer]

Yeah, thank you Hero, I don't understand the upside to Pinella either.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

White Sox really outplayed the Red Sox this entire series. I don't think the White Sox will be good enough to win the World Series though. Red Sox really did not have the same feel as last year. Its too bad because last year was fucking amazing honestly. I guess I would rather see them to lose to the White Sox instead of the Yankees. Atleast you don't have to hear it from the fans since the White Sox really don't have many.

Red Sox vs Yankees would have real hot though - last 2 Red Sox/Yankees series in the playoffs where the most exciting things to happen to baseball in a long ass time.

[MVP]

White Sox better win it now.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I bet Damon signs with the Yankees after the Red Sox don't resign Millar and Mueller.

Good thing we got Renteria and his 38 errors locked up though. Somehow switching leagues makes you suck at defense?

Red Sox are probably going to make a shitload of moves this year but I don't know what they are going to do. Should be interesting.

[CNM]

I think they might start Youkilis at third. They definately need upgrades at 2B and 1B though.

[VonErich Lives]

There's talk they've worked Youkillis at 1B also, I'd really like to see Muellar stay, I think Renteria will improve, but when Hanley Rameriez is ready, you'll see Renteria move to 2B.

Word is Manny is looking for a new agent, and his sole focus is someone who can work out a trade for him out of Boston.

I don't see Damon going to NYY, I wouldn't be shocked if he wants too much to stay here, his agent is known for that, although Teck did stay with the same agent so who knows. I honestly wouldn't be shocked to see Damon go to a team like the Angels or more the Dodgers, McCorut as a lot of money to play with.

The big beeds I see is 1B.

I'd like to see Timlin back as Set-up, so if Foulke isn't going to close, then they need a closer, which could be Craig Hansen. 1B is obvious.

I didn't list SP, because Schilling and Wells both have a year left (I think) and Pappelbon will be a SP next year, so that gives you 6 SP, which probably means Arroyo to the pen, and spot start when Wells & Schilling get injured.

If Manny goes then LF becomes a need, and if Damon goes CF becomes a need. I didn't list 3B because even if Muellar goes, Youkillis will play 3B.

Honestly, if they keep the current team intact, I'd really like to see a RF, Trot knows that RF at fenway, and he works his ass off, but I think he's on the downside of his carrer and don't see his injuries or hitting improving. it's only his 7th full season in the bigs, but he's also 31 (he was drafted with back problems and some people didn't know if he'd ever make the majors).

Not sure what the sox have on the Farm for OF.

[VonErich Lives]

another interesting note is, Theo doesn't have a contract for next year and I can't remember if they gave Francona a new deal or not.

Word is Cashman may be out in NY, and would go to Philly in a heartbeat.

Here's an interesting thought, if Cashman is out, how much do you think George would throw at Theo?

[YOUR Hero]

blah blah bah. Red Sox will just buy more players. Problem solved.

[VonErich Lives]

blah blah bah. Red Sox will just buy more players. Problem solved.

So, what's your solution?

You keep bitching about "the sox and yanks buy their championships"

Well...

2 of the top 3 payrolls made the playoffs.

3 of the top 5 payrolls made the playoffs.

5 of the top 10 payrolls made the playoffs.

Playoff team with the lowest payroll?
#16 SD.

The probelm isn't the Sox and Yanks (1 & 2).

It's the Bottom 5, that either can't or wont spend the money to compete. Yeah, Cleveland came close and were 26, but "close to make the playoffs" doesn't get you anything.

They have a "luxury tax" problem is too many owners pocket it.

That being said, if your team makes money, why can't you spend it? spend it to help your team win which in turn helps make more money.

I'd love to see a hard cap like the NFL, but the MLBPA would commit mass suicide before doing that.

[YOUR Hero]

blah blah blah. justification for a terrible (non existent) salary structure.

[VonErich Lives]

blah blah blah. justification for a terrible (non existent) salary structure.

let me try this again, maybe your eyes are going in your old age.

WHAT IS YOUR SOLUTION?

Yeah, let's pretend your god and MLB and the Owners have to do what you want. What do you do?

[YOUR Hero]

All sports should have a hard cap. Period.

[VonErich Lives]

All sports should have a hard cap. Period.

Why?

Not saying I disagree, cause I agree they should have hard caps like football.

Top 5 payrolls were NYY, BOS, NYM, LAA, PHL (as of April 05)

That being said, the top teams would argue a few things:

1) Why if they can operate at a profit, should they not be able to spend money on payroll, which typically gets a better team and hence makes more money.

2) You can say the top teams spend too much, but can't you also say the lower teams don't spend enough? Should there also be a minum to force teams to "compete" rather then owners who have loyal fans and wish to make bigger profits?

3) Baseball is a sport, but MLB is a business, and if you're going to limit what the top money makers can spend so the little guys can compete shouldn't you limit what Domino's and Pizza Hut spend on their companies so the local little guy can compete?

4) If we put a cap to limit how much teams can spend, doesn't that also limit what players can earn, and hence kill "free enterprise" (this is MLBPA argument).

keep in mind, I agree 100% with a hard cap, those are just some of the arugments against it.

Interesting side note: The Yanks haven't won a WS since they went over the 100mil mark in payroll.

[VonErich Lives]

Good luck competing, Toronto and Seattle

We're discussing this in the MLB thread, but just a note over here.

Seattle had the 8th highest payroll.

4 of the 8 playoff teams spent less money.

4 Los Angeles Angels $97,725,322
8 Seattle Mariners $87,754,334
21 Texas Rangers $55,849,000
22 Oakland Athletics $55,425,762

What I find funny is you bring up payroll as a reason Seattle can't compete, yet 2 teams that spent 32mil less then Seattle finished better.

Los Angeles 95 67 .586
Oakland 88 74 .543
Texas 79 83 .488
Seattle 69 93 .426

So, is that Seattle doesn't have money to spend or doesn't spend it properly?

I'll copy/paste this into the MLB thread so we can keep the cap discussion in one spot.

[YOUR Hero]

Yes teams should have to spend a minimum amount of money under a hard cap system.

[The Miz]

We're discussing this in the MLB thread, but just a note over here.

Seattle had the 8th highest payroll.

4 of the 8 playoff teams spent less money.

4 Los Angeles Angels $97,725,322
8 Seattle Mariners $87,754,334
21 Texas Rangers $55,849,000
22 Oakland Athletics $55,425,762

What I find funny is you bring up payroll as a reason Seattle can't compete, yet 2 teams that spent 32mil less then Seattle finished better.

Los Angeles 95 67 .586
Oakland 88 74 .543
Texas 79 83 .488
Seattle 69 93 .426

So, is that Seattle doesn't have money to spend or doesn't spend it properly?

I'll copy/paste this into the MLB thread so we can keep the cap discussion in one spot.

Seattle cannot compete with Boston in signing FA's, which is all they do. We have money, but not enough money to throw at Manny, Clement, Schilling, Foulke, Renteria, etc. You buy players. That's all you do and that's all you ever will do.

Second-tier teams like us have to go after the second-tier FA's and trade for younger players. We got Richie Sexson, an excellent pickup. 40 HR, 120 RBI in a pitcher's park. Guardado, 25 saves, ERA under 3. Beltre had a poor season, no one denies that. The jury is still out on him, he has been in the LA organization since he was 15 and now he comes to Seattle, he's going to struggle the first year. He'll be better next year. At the very least we can expect 20 HR and excellent defense. Not bad at all.

You think that because Seattle is bad in 2005 and Boston is good in 2005 that this will always be the case. Seattle was at one point the best team in baseball. Boston was at one point the worst. It's called "rebuilding" and they're doing it this year. Boston has done it before. I assume you were a fan in the 20th century, I'm sure you remember Kevin Kennedy. Butch Hobson. I've asked you before to name me a team that has always been good. You didnt answer because there is no answer.

[RP]

Atlanta Braves.

[The Miz]

Are you joking? You realize baseball was invented before 1991 right?

1990 65-97
1989 63-91
1988 54-106
1987 69-92
1979 66-94
1977 61-101

[Loose Cannon]

and you can't just say Atlanta Braves because you have to go with Braves history as a whole or the thing is screwed up.

the Boston Braves/Bees (same history) were ridiculously terrible from the 20's-40's.

[YOUR Hero]

Braves went from worst to first.

[The Outlaw]

Yes, they did.

[RP]

Are you joking? You realize baseball was invented before 1991 right?

1990 65-97
1989 63-91
1988 54-106
1987 69-92
1979 66-94
1977 61-101

I didnt mean they were good ever since they've begun. They have been good for 14-15 years. Its pretty unrealistic to ask any team to be good since they've joined there league. Ofcourse theres gunna be turnover.

[VonErich Lives]

Miz I agree no team can be good all the time. and yes, the Sox, Yanks, Mets and other "top spending teams" do outbid a lot of teams, The sox have also recently started rebuilding their farm system, which was what helped NYY in the 90's to trade for a lot of high priced talent and key additions late in the season, difference is the Sox do look at their wallet a bit (unlike NYY the Sox owners still have huge loans) and keep most of their top talent (recently, IE: new owners, new gm).

So, I understand your complaint, the Sox, NYY, NYM and a few others can spend money that other teams can't, so what is your solution?

Also, what about the teams that have money and won't spend it?

Also, keep in mind with Schilling, he had a contract in Arizona (a team that once or twice had to have MLB cover it's weekly payroll).

In the case of Renteria, the sox offer was the same or less then STL, but Renteria "really wanted to come here" because he had some "relationship" with John Henry from the Marlins days.

I'm not denying the big teams don't spend what the little teams can't, but my question to you is what is the solution.

IS it fair to tell a team "you can't spend money to better your team"?
IS it fair for an owner to say "I wan't to make more money, so I'm cutting payroll to put in my own pocket".

[VonErich Lives]

Also,

Seattle was at one point the best team in baseball.

I assume you're refrencing regular season finish, because we discused before them "choking" and you said they didn't, they just played a better team.

Also, I don't understand how you can claim the Sox, Yanks, NYM are good because they "just buy players" then other teams who spend 30mil more should be better. In some cases teams just spend money in the wrong place.

Look at Oakland, every year one of the lowest payrolls, yet every year in the hunt.

[Loose Cannon]

I didnt mean they were good ever since they've begun. They have been good for 14-15 years. Its pretty unrealistic to ask any team to be good since they've joined there league. Ofcourse theres gunna be turnover.

lol, hence the point of his argument

what does being good for 14-15 years have to do with his argument?

[YOUR Hero]

To be honest, I don't consider the Atlanta Braves to be a success. Being good enough to make the playoffs 14 straight years, while impressive is over shadowed by the fact they have but one Championship to show for all of that. That's why they don't sellout home playoff games.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I don't get how they can be good enough to win the division 14 years in a row and only have one championship. I mean you would figure they would atleast have 4 or 5. Running into a hot pitcher or something like that can be happen but 13 out of the 14 years?

[Joey Slugs]

not only that sTiMa, but they have lost in the first round 4 straight years now. that's why they don't sell out playoffs games... even their own fans don't care unless they make the world series.

[The Outlaw]

Nah it's not that, it's just that a lot of us have stopped believing in the Braves. We are one of the biggest choke jobs in the MLB. We should have 4 or 5 rings because we were more talented than a lot of the teams that beat us. But, we just can't get it done. Pretty simple concept really.

[Lotus]

Yesterday was fucking bullshit. There is no excuse for the Braves losing that. God I feel empty right now :(. Fuck the Astros, the Cards will rip them a new one. Cardinals/White Sox baby.

[YOUR Hero]

Yankees and Angels are about to get under way.

Come on Angels.

[Loose Cannon]

unstiky this and sticky the other one

[YOUR Hero]

good idea

[VonErich Lives]

not making a thread about it.

Nomar as back in Boston, in his condo with his uncle, and heard a woman fall in the water and scream, they looked out and her friend fell in.

Uncle went running down to help and when he got out there, nomar was already in the water holding onto both girls.

They were drunk.

Once out of the water, (one hit her head on the dock and was kinda out of it) nomar asked if she was ok she said "are you Nomar" and he said something like "I think you really hit your head".

good story, gonna be interesting what he does in the offseason, another 1yr deal to prove he can stay healthy?

(missed all that time and still out hit Reteria)

[RoXer]

GAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

The A's play the D-Backs but it's @ OAKLAND :mad: :mad: :mad:

[VonErich Lives]

Just heard on the radio, Oakland has asked permission to talk to Orel Hershiser about becoming the new manager.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Ugh, I'm so sick of all these topics on the Mets message board, my friends, and even the local radio talking about how the Mets have no chance at getting Manny in the off-season without giving up Lastings Milledge....I've even heard "Omar Minaya is a genius if he can get Manny without losing Milledge"

If Milledge is involved in this trade then Omar is just as big a dope as the past G.M.'s the Mets have had...Now the reasons...again:

1) The Boston Red Sox and Manny want to part ways.

2) At the begining of last season the Soxs put Manny out there for NOTHING to dump his salary. Nobody took him.

3) There is only ONE..ONE...ONE team that will and can take on his salary the M-E-T-S Mets Mets Mets.. who the hell else will do this, Boston won't work with the Yankees, the only other team.

4) Boston is going to be totally restructered during the off season and the P.R. hit of dumping Manny will not be as bad after losing so quickly in the NLDS. If the Sox won the World Series again then the P.R. of getting rid of Manny in the off season would be more difficult.

5) Omar was brought in to make deals like this without giving up the Mets' future. The Red Sox can ask all they want about Milledge but Omar can just say "screw you" for the above reasons...especially #3...so now what do they do... they take whatever Omar offers as long as it doesn't make the Boston front office lose face.

----
Am I the only person that realizes this?</font>

[CNM]

Milledge for Manny would be Kazmir for Zambrano Part 2

[VonErich Lives]

I'm only ok with the Sox dealing Manny if they use his money on other talent, I've heard BJ Ryan is a FA? I thought maybe Konerko?

Dunno though, but every year goes by, Manny will cost more in a trade, because the Sox won't be dumping salary if there's just say 1-2yrs left, like they would with 5-6.

[BCWWF]

The Twins are apparently interested in Konerko, but I think most likely chances are he stays in CHW.

Some other Twins notes to catch you guys up...ESPN Insider has a rumor that the Twins are going to trade Justin Morneau for Corey Koskie. There can't be a more rediculous rumor in the history of rumors. I can see the Twins wanting to get Corey back, but there is no way they trade a 24 year old offensive phenom. Before he hit his sophomore slump this year he was the best first baseman in the AL. Albiet it only lasted a month.

The other thing, the pressure is on for Pohlad to spend some money this year. The payroll might be able to get up to 50 million! Anyway, the guys the Trib wants are Mueller and Konerko. I don't know for either. Soriano would be amazing, Stewart-Mauer-Soriano-Morneau-Hunter, maybe find a way to bring Koskie back as well. JJ is gone, pretty much, probably to the Royals or Padres, thats OK though, either Ford or Kubel will be able to step in.

One name that I haven't heard much of is Jim Thome. Isn't he a FA? He was interested in the Twins before signing with Philly, we just couldn't pay him. He is pretty much what the Twins are looking for, a good DH, but I dunno.

I still stand strong that we should have found a way to somehow make a deal for Griffey at the deadline. We needed a center fielder and we needed a power hitter, give up something Terry Ryan!

Anyway, thats all.

[The Miz]

Ken Macha signs with Oakland through 2008 (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20051014&content_id=1249752&vkey=pr_oak&fext=.jsp&c_id=oak)

Congradulations Angels, 2006 AL West champions

[RoXer]

What?

[RoXer]

I love the headlines next to it.

• Two candidates to interview for A's job
• Macha will not return to manage A's

[VonErich Lives]

So, BCWWF... what's NYY or BOS going to end up dealing for Hunter?

Side note: They're reporting that Philly is putting a full press on for Brian Cashman.

If that happens, Theo's contract is up, think George goes after Theo if for no other reason to mess with Lucchino?

[BCWWF]

Hunter is by far the man, the face of the Twins, and I really hope that they don't trade him. Of course, with Damon and Bernie's situation, the two suitable teams are automatically Boston and New York, I see New York as a more legit candidate for some reason.

Anyway, the only thing that New York could offer us is Robinson Cano, but even if they did offer us that, Cano is not worth Hunter straight up, not even close. What Hunter does in centerfield and in the clubhouse is worth more then that. From what I've read, New York's package would include like that Bubba guy. Are you kididng me? Trade the face of the Twins for the fourth outfielder on the Yankees?

We already have a top three starting rotation in the AL, and probably top three bullpen as well. Now we need bats and we need them now. Adding that guy, even if he will eventually be good, doesn't do anything for us. We've got outfield prospects of our own that are probably better.

I don't know, the Twins won't trade Hunter and if they do they get hosed.

[Loose Cannon]

So, BCWWF... what's NYY or BOS going to end up dealing for Hunter?

Side note: They're reporting that Philly is putting a full press on for Brian Cashman.

If that happens, Theo's contract is up, think George goes after Theo if for no other reason to mess with Lucchino?

yea, heard that this week. Seems like it might happen.

[BCWWF]

Well of course the New York media would make it seem like that. (If you are talking about Hunter that is)

[Loose Cannon]

no, not Hunter

[BCWWF]

Good, don't even think about it.

[VonErich Lives]

Good, don't even think about it.

Guess he should take his house off the market then?

Be kinda strange if his first game next season is the same place he ended his season this year.

[YOUR Hero]

With the regular season over, Yahoo sports rates the following players as the top 10 this year.

Do you agree or disagree?

Why?

#1) A-Rod
#2) Pujohls
#3) Derek Lee
#4) Ortiz
#5) Teixeira
#6) Rivera
#7) Manny
#8) Carpenter
#9) Santana
#10) Wagner

[The Miz]

That list is crap. Where is the NL MVP?

My list

1. Rodriguez
2. Pujols
3. Ortiz
4. Jones
5. Lee
6. Ramirez
7. Clemens
8. Santana
9. Rivera
10. Hafner

[YOUR Hero]

That list is crap. Where is the NL MVP?

My list

1. Rodriguez
2. Pujols
3. Ortiz
4. Jones
5. Lee
6. Ramirez
7. Clemens
8. Santana
9. Rivera
10. Hafner

Jones #16
Clemens #22
Hafner #40

[YOUR Hero]

Their rankings are based purely on stats, no other factors.

[The Miz]

51 homers should help you crack the top 15, no?

An ERA under 2 with 34 starts isn't too shabby either.

[YOUR Hero]

Jason Bay and Soriano were the ranked ahead of Andruw Jones. (#11-#14)

J.Nathan - #12, Dontrelle - #13, Pedro - #15 and Pettitte #20 all ranked higher than the Rocket.

[The Miz]

lol Soriano. With his amazing stats outside of Texas I can see why

<table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" class="tablehead"> <tbody><tr class="colhead" align="right"><td align="left">SPLIT</td> <td>AB</td> <td>R</td> <td>H</td> <td>2B</td> <td>3B</td> <td>HR</td> <td>RBI</td> <td>BB</td> <td>HBP</td> <td>SO</td> <td>SB</td> <td>CS</td> <td>AVG</td> <td>OBP</td> <td>SLG</td> <td>OPS</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" align="right"><td align="left">
</td> <td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow" align="right"><td align="left">Away </td> <td>326</td><td>42</td><td>73</td><td>16</td><td>0</td><td>11</td><td>31</td><td>15</td><td>4</td><td>74</td><td>16</td><td>0</td><td>.224</td><td>.265</td><td>.374</td><td>.639</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[The Miz]

Oh and I forgot to mention his GG defense. I'm not sure about those stats though. VEL, a little help?

[YOUR Hero]

Well in all fariness to Soriano, he's played pretty good over his entire career. It's not like he never played well anywhere besides Texas.

The thing with Yahoo stats is they are cold. Stats only, cold.

[BCWWF]

Damn right Joe Nathan.

[OssMan]

Damn, did anyone see the relief pitcher from the Mets today? Sets up to bat againest Randy Johnson, this guy was a left handed batter ontop of being a pitcher, and he rips a double off him. Then when Reyes drops a bunt the dude scores (well it looked like Posada tagged him but he was called safe) from 2nd base. Unbelievable.

The bunt by Reyes was pretty sick too. He pulled away as he hit it and the ball just died on the grass. TEXTBOOK SACRIFICE

Wanted to bump this thread to share this youtube video about these 2 posts.....


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_f6owc3O_gY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>