this years wrestlemania is MAKE IT OR BREAK IT for the WWE

[Vermaat]

If wwe screws up then I think it will be the start of WWE ending it's reign on top. this of course is triple h vs john cena, cena is obviously the best new talent wwe has had in like 5 years and it is his generation and wwe has been doing things right except making him lose to edge which was stupid but now they should have him beat hhh, hhh is the old generation, john cena is the new generation, he needs to beat hhh to continue his strakl, they should do it like goldberg with counting his wins.

If wwe has cena win they will be on top for a long time because he is the steve austin of his era and this is his generation so wwe should drop the past like HHH and go with the future, if HHH wins it will destroy cena and wwe shouldnt lose their newest star because they need him to carry this generation, they cannot rely on hhh and austin forever because they are old and broken down. Cena has new moves like the FU that got impact unlike the moves hhh uses and all the other old guys, Cena is young and is the new generation.

also on smackdown mysterio vs angle vs orton is a MAKE IT OR BREAK IT for the WWE because mysterio is the young talent they should push, i mean angle should not have won the title. He was pretty good but baldie (angle) is old and broken down now and should drop the title to the future, mysterio. I mean seriously, baldie can't do 619 or any of those new moves, he is too slow and it would be dumbb if he wins.

Undertaker Vs Mark Henry is a MAKE IT OR BREAK IT For the WWE because they need to put the undertaker out to pasture and in the hall of fame, he is old and broken down and keeps taking the spotlight. Mark henry is old too but he has a bit more gas in his tank then the undertaker so they should have henry win and have undertaker retire the same night and be put in the hall of fame cause he was good but now he is just old and broken down.

This wrestlemania is truly something WWE should focus on, what do u think? I think their future depends on this !!!!! !

[James Steele]

I think you have great potential if you learn that periods are your friends and that only one exclamation point is needed.

EDIT: I actually read your post. Fuck you, Kurt Angle is a fucking wrestling god.

[Xero]

First of all, Cena is gone until they turn him. Triple H must win the title or there will be reprocutions, including losing more viewers.

If anyone is leading the new generation it's Orton. Orton has a bigger shot taking the WWE into the next boom and leading than Cena does.

Mysterio is not a "young" talent. He made his debut in 1989 is nearing his mid-30s.

Saying giving Angle the title was a mistake is like saying having Hulk Hogan beat Andre at WrestleMania III was a mistake. It's just not true. He's the best the company has got, and although he is nearing his twilight years, he has a good three to four years on top to go.

Angle can't do a 619. So the fuck what? Neither can half the WWE roster. (Actually most probably could, it's just a shitty setup move for a shitty seated senton anyway.)

I'm not even going to touch your Henry/Taker comments.

[The Naitch]

lol let's call this guy the make it or break it guy

[Vermaat]

K

Lissen up and take a seat. Cena is the best face wwe has had since austin and hogan, he is not a heel. If they make him heel it would be stupid and he won't sell merchandise and guess what he sells a lot of merchandise, why? Because he is the best face wwe has got since austin!

Orton is pretty good but I have not seen him get good heel heat yet. he got good face heat so he is a pretty good face but i have not seen him get good heel heat. NOTE : cheap heat does not count like what he did with mysterio. Anyone can do that. Orton needs to work on his skill in the ring but he definetely has what it takes, just not polished yet. Cena is 100% polished. He is what everyone is talking about.

The reprecussion of HHH winning the title would be that Cena would be SCREWED again. He would e weakened and they already did that by having him lose to Edge. Cena winning here is a must, Cena losing would result in WWE weaking the man they will build the company around for the next 10 years (if they are smart)

Ok true mysterio is not a young talent, but he is fresh and he is not broken down like baldie. I mean, I like Kurt, he is a legend but sometimes you just have to retire and Angle needs to let another star on top because he just can't go at it anymore like he used to, mysterio can.

And 619 is important because it is a new move. This is exactly what the WWE LACKS, i-n-n-o-v-a-t-i-o-n ! Mysterio keeps creating new moves and his matches are amazing, it's hard to keep up with them, he is truly a man that WWE should build the company around along with Cena. Orton needs more time to develop, he is not ready yet.

[Kane Knight]

Fortunately for WWE, your stupid assertions of make or break mean nothing, as they will not be fucked by a bad wrestlemania.

Unfortunately for us, they know this and feel no pressure to put anything good on.

[.44 Magdalene]

Lol, the FU has "impact."

[Extreme Angle]

shut the fuck up!
angle is not old or broken down!
and your calling mysterio the young one...
orton is the youngest...

[V]

is this guy serious?

[Xero]

Orton is pretty good but I have not seen him get good heel heat yet.
One word: Evolution.

When did you start watching wrestling? 2005?

[Vermaat]

Angle has an injured neck. He needs to retire because he is not the angle that he is, you people are seeing the angle that used to be, not the angle that is now. I mean, I am a huge fan of angle, but he has just not been like he was a long time ago.

FU is like The Stunner, it has the same type of impact except it's even more impressive, doing a stunner to Big Show is meh but doing a F-U to show is a feat.

I think you people people dislike Cena for one reason, WWE weakening him by having him lose to Edge. That was a mistake.

And Evolution? What did Orton do? Not much. Evolution got heel heat because of HHH!

[Extreme Angle]

orton turned face winning the whc sometime last year abnd was changed back to heel because he is incredible at being a bad guy...
mick foley said it himself :yes:

[V]

dude seriously, i am the biggest cena mark in the world, but you are being retarded

[Extreme Angle]

I think you people people dislike Cena for one reason, WWE weakening him by having him lose to Edge. That was a mistake.

lol because he lost to edge :rofl:
edge is the man!
cena has been hated around here since he turned face!

[Vermaat]

Well obviously you don't understand what's going on in the wrestling world. If you did you would see that John Cena is the man that the talk is about. Cena has been built with a great genius, much like Austin, Hogan and Goldberg, an unstoppable face that overcomes all odds. This is how you make a face and you know that the name Cena goes with the names Austin, Hogan and Goldberg. Give it a few years and you will all be talking about how Cena is the greatest of ALL time. You're just being misled by Cena's poor build as of late (Edge etc).

[Xero]

Angle has an injured neck. He needs to retire because he is not the angle that he is, you people are seeing the angle that used to be, not the angle that is now. I mean, I am a huge fan of angle, but he has just not been like he was a long time ago.

FU is like The Stunner, it has the same type of impact except it's even more impressive, doing a stunner to Big Show is meh but doing a F-U to show is a feat.

I think you people people dislike Cena for one reason, WWE weakening him by having him lose to Edge. That was a mistake.

And Evolution? What did Orton do? Not much. Evolution got heel heat because of HHH!
Do a search on "John Cena". We have "disliked" (I would have used a different word, but whatever) since before WrestleMania 21.

Also, "a long time ago"? Angle and Michaels had one of the top feuds wrestling-wise last year. Angle may not be in the best shape, but he's by no means a shadow of his former self. If anything, he's improved on his out-of-ring stuff.

I suppose you're going to say that it was Angle's fault that the fans were cheering for him against Cena. He was the heel. He was shitting on America. Yet people still cheered him over "the best talent in the last five years". Yeah, sure.

And the ORIGINAL FU was great. It was a slightly modified DVD. Now it's a fucking Fireman's Carry Slam.

[Xero]

Okay, seriously, if he isn't a joke account and/or troll this guy is retarded. (Yeah, I said I'd let up on the n00bs, but I have to make exceptions.)

[V]

the original cena was the man, they fucked him over so bad after he got popular on his own, and tried to make him even more popular with their retarded ways

the only reason i am still a mark for him is because of how he was when he first became the heel white rapper

they can still fix him, but it seems like he is just gonna be fed to HHH

[Extreme Angle]

watch the segmant he has last week on raw with hhh again...
that's how boring he is now...
the booing was so bad...
he pointed at coach to when they wre booing...
and when he said that thing about he won a i know what hhh is gonna say, the boo's were proper bad

[CharismaInjection]

cena is obviously the best new talent wwe has had in like 5 years and it is his generation and wwe has been doing things right except making him lose to edge which was stupid but now they should have him beat hhh, hhh is the old generation, john cena is the new generation, he needs to beat hhh to continue his strakl, they should do it like goldberg with counting his wins.

If wwe has cena win they will be on top for a long time because he is the steve austin of his era and this is his generation so wwe should drop the past like HHH and go with the future, if HHH wins it will destroy cena and wwe shouldnt lose their newest star because they need him to carry this generation, they cannot rely on hhh and austin forever because they are old and broken down. Cena has new moves like the FU that got impact unlike the moves hhh uses and all the other old guys, Cena is young and is the new generation.
!

..............nah, too easy. :lol:

[.44 Magdalene]

Angle has an injured neck. He needs to retire because he is not the angle that he is, you people are seeing the angle that used to be, not the angle that is now. I mean, I am a huge fan of angle, but he has just not been like he was a long time ago.

FU is like The Stunner, it has the same type of impact except it's even more impressive, doing a stunner to Big Show is meh but doing a F-U to show is a feat.

I think you people people dislike Cena for one reason, WWE weakening him by having him lose to Edge. That was a mistake.

And Evolution? What did Orton do? Not much. Evolution got heel heat because of HHH!


Holy mother of the Lord. Angle can still wrestle ten times better than most of the roster. Whether he wrestles like he used to is irrelevant--he can still put on a technical extravaganza, especially compared to guys like Cena. The FU is not impressive. It's a standing Fireman's Carry. It's just a drop on the guy's back. The Stunner wasn't any more creative, but it would genuinely knock somebody the fuck out. The FU isn't any more intimidating than a standard powerbomb or spinebuster.

Hardly anybody actually DISLIKES Cena. Cena's not as hyped around here as he used to be because he sucks as a strict face. As a heel or even an anti-face type role, he works. He's entertaining. No matter how badly you might want to deny it, Cena just isn't as entertaining as a face as he is as a heel.

...And to think HHH was the only reason Evolution got heat is just naive.

[Vermaat]

Ok several points :

1. Angle did improve his out of ring stuff to compensate for the quality of his in ring stuff, his matches have just been slower and he really needs to take a break. He's just not the man anymore. He needs to step down and let the new generation take over.

2. Angle did not play a proper heel against Cena thats a given. U can see a mile away his cheap heat that he was using and the fans saw that and laughed at it that's why he was getting cheered, because it was so ridiculous that u can't help but laugh. Angle missed the mark here.

3. I didn't really hear any boos for Cena recently unless u count the ones for HHH. Sure a few guys do it just to screw with the show, but that's not real heat.

4. Yea guys personal insults really prove ur point nice work guys!!!!

5. Cena was pretty good as a heel and you know what that shows? V-E-R-S-A-T-I-LITY!!! He can do either one, face or heel and do it well, this is another reason why he is the WWE's newest and biggest star since Austin ( who also could play both parts

[Kane Knight]

Angle has an injured neck. He needs to retire because he is not the angle that he is, you people are seeing the angle that used to be, not the angle that is now.

Has to be a joke Account. Angle crippled > 99% of the roster.

Also, Cena's FU has no impact. The stunner at least looked cool. Even the Rock Bottom had more finesse.

[Vermaat]

Also I think the reason Cena gets booed by some people in the crowd is because it is a new trend to boo the faces and cheer the heels, people think it's cool because it is against the usual rules. I put angle partly to blame because he started it with those ridiculous comments that he was making (anti america etc) and people just began to see that it's funny to boo the face.

[Funky Fly]

Random noob. Blah blah blah.

[Skippord]

5. Cena was pretty good as a heel and you know what that shows? V-E-R-S-A-T-I-LITY!!! He can do either one, face or heel and do it well, this is another reason why he is the WWE's newest and biggest star since Austin ( who also could play both parts
Its not called versatality its called being able to play both roles which should be a must for all wrestlers

[Extreme Angle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR8tOYCFEgY&search=hhh%20cena
not sure its all of it but...
can you hear the boos?
for your imformation they aint booing hhh because when he comes in they are cheering the hell out of him!

[Loose Cannon]

When you say "end of its reign on top," just what are you talking about?

[Loose Cannon]

I'm talking about TNA becoming #1 in the business

:rofl:

[Kane Knight]

Also I think the reason Cena gets booed by some people in the crowd is because it is a new trend to boo the faces and cheer the heels, people think it's cool because it is against the usual rules

So HArdy's a heel, Bradshaw's a face, Orton's a face, Michaels is a heel, Rey's a heel, Edge is a face, Show and Kane are heels, Foley's a heel?

Damn, good to know.

[Vermaat]

I think I know where the problem is. Like I said, people are reversing what they do for fun because they think it's funny to screw up with the program. I also think they are doing it because they want to hear HHH say something ridiculous (like what angle said when he was anti american etc) , so they cheer to tease him and see what he can do in terms of being heel. They are teasing him because they don't like him.

WWE is to blame for this because they did not have Cena destroy Edge but had him look like a weak star when Edge destroyed him so they kinda ruined his image, now he needs to defeat HHH at wrestlemania to retain his character.

[Kane Knight]

You have to totally ignore like 95% of crowd reactions in order for that to work.

[Xero]

Also I think the reason Cena gets booed by some people in the crowd is because it is a new trend to boo the faces and cheer the heels, people think it's cool because it is against the usual rules. I put angle partly to blame because he started it with those ridiculous comments that he was making (anti america etc) and people just began to see that it's funny to boo the face.
What?

When a the TOP face (the person who is supposed to be cheered) goes aganist the TOP heel (the person who is supposed to be booed) and is getting booed, you've got a HUGE problem.

Angle was feuding with Cena BEFORE he became anti-American. He was feuding since Unforgiven, four months before the ridiculous comments Angle was making, and quite frankly I don't blame the WWE on trying something radical like that, whether it came out well or not. What's your excuse for September-January? Why was Cena being booed? And don't give me that "it's cool to cheer the heel and boo the face".

News flash, if that was true, Angle would have been face LOOOONG ago. The fans have loved to cheer the anti-authority figure since the Attitude era. (Although you probably don't know anything about that. 1998 was such a long time ago.) Cena was playing it and FAILING.

Cena was and still is failing as a face and the WWE doesn't want to change his gimmick. The WWE fucked him and he will never recover. And if he does, they'll have to do a HUGE heel turn.

[Extreme Angle]

Vermaat your just digging yourself a deeper hole

[Xero]

I'm talking about TNA becoming #1 in the business

:rofl:
Would that bump CZW up to 2? :shifty:

[Kane Knight]

Naw. KKW would pwn them.,

[Vermaat]

What?

When a the TOP face (the person who is supposed to be cheered) goes aganist the TOP heel (the person who is supposed to be booed) and is getting booed, you've got a HUGE problem.

Angle was feuding with Cena BEFORE he became anti-American. He was feuding since Unforgiven, four months before the ridiculous comments Angle was making, and quite frankly I don't blame the WWE on trying something radical like that, whether it came out well or not. What's your excuse for September-January? Why was Cena being booed? And don't give me that "it's cool to cheer the heel and boo the face".

News flash, if that was true, Angle would have been face LOOOONG ago. The fans have loved to cheer the anti-authority figure since the Attitude era. (Although you probably don't know anything about that. 1998 was such a long time ago.) Cena was playing it and FAILING.

Cena was and still is failing as a face and the WWE doesn't want to change his gimmick. The WWE fucked him and he will never recover. And if he does, they'll have to do a HUGE heel turn.

I don't know what show u were watching but on raw it was a miniority, a large number of people still cheered for cena, u know, a few bad apples ruin a bunch. And like u said, a lot of people cheered angle out of respect because he has given them a lot of entertainment and is old and they realize that so they cheer him for being an elder out of respect. I think Cena was amazing as anti authority especially on Smackdown when he attacked Teddy Long.

I think WWE did screw him up, you're right,but he can recover if he beats HHH

[.44 Magdalene]

If it's a joke account, I fail to see the humor.

Then again, I also failed to tell Fit Finlay to his face that he's a fighting Irish bastard.

[Extreme Angle]

I don't know what show u were watching but on raw it was a miniority, a large number of people still cheered for cena, u know, a few bad apples ruin a bunch. And like u said, a lot of people cheered angle out of respect because he has given them a lot of entertainment and is old and they realize that so they cheer him for being an elder out of respect. I think Cena was amazing as anti authority especially on Smackdown when he attacked Teddy Long.

I think WWE did screw him up, you're right,but he can recover if he loses to HHH and becomes a heel

[Xero]

And like u said, a lot of people cheered angle out of respect because he has given them a lot of entertainment and is old and they realize that so they cheer him for being an elder out of respect.
I never said they cheered him out of respect.

And lol at that last part about elders. That was a too retarded comment for this to be a serious account.

[Vermaat]

That will make him heel #3 after HHH and Edge! It will ruin the WWE because they will destruct their biggest new star. Who else has the face potential of Cena? No one that's who. Cena identifies with the youth of today, the rest of the WWE doesn't. WWE needs to be smart.

Also, why is Angle face now? Because WWE realized fans will not boo him because he is a legend, so they made him a face.

[HaTeR]

just kill yourself

[Extreme Angle]

fuck merchandise all they need is a new kurt angle book or dvd and then the money will roll in...
i'd buy them both

[Kane Knight]

I don't know what show u were watching but on raw it was a miniority, a large number of people still cheered for cena, u know, a few bad apples ruin a bunch

Yeah. It was just those males above the ages of 12...You know, the MINORITY in the wrestling fanbase.

[Xero]

It's pretty sad when your biggest fan base has a very high-pitched cheer.

[UmbrellaCorporation]

I LOVE GRAMMAR AND PUNCTUATION

[V]

how does this guy still have green rep?

[Vermaat]

Yeah. It was just those males above the ages of 12...You know, the MINORITY in the wrestling fanbase.

Not true, I am 19 and I cheer for Cena. So do a lot of people over 12, it's just that a lot of guys go to "screw" with the program and they think its really rebellious to boo a face and cheer the heel and they get a kick out of doing that.

[Extreme Angle]

lol your 19...

[Evolution]

Working on the green rep problem now...

Also, wtf? Are you... dark_kane?

[Kane Knight]

Not true, I am 19 and I cheer for Cena. So do a lot of people over 12,[\quote]

And the fact is, it's predominantly female. It's not hard to tell that Cena is not over with most of the major demographic, the males who've hit puberty.

[quote]it's just that a lot of guys go to "screw" with the program and they think its really rebellious to boo a face and cheer the heel and they get a kick out of doing that.

No it's not, or you would see it happening in more instances.

But shit, why let reality get in the way of your argument?

[Skippord]

2. Angle did not play a proper heel against Cena thats a given. U can see a mile away his cheap heat that he was using and the fans saw that and laughed at it that's why he was getting cheered, because it was so ridiculous that u can't help but laugh. Angle missed the mark here.

Are you HHH?

[Blitz]

I don't have anything to add that hasn't been said already, but goddamn, this is funny stuff.

[Mr. Nerfect]

First of all, John Cena isn’t the best thing to happen to the WWE in the last five years. Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero winning their brands’ respective World Titles was better. Christian getting cheered over BATISTA (damn good feat) was better. Hell, Batista’s face turn was better. John Cena WILL be a leader of the WWE, but not as their top babyface. Sorry, but Paul London has a better chance. John Cena is talented, but he doesn’t play the thug character well. John Cena will be a leader of the WWE when he settles into a stable heel role. Trust me; this guy reminds me so much of Triple H it isn’t funny. He’s got all the wrestling talent in the world, but people discount it, much like they do Triple H’s. This guy has all the tools to be Triple H's successor as top heel of the WWE.

I agree with your point about John Cena needing to win at WrestleMania 22. I will be rooting for a Cena win as well. JC is undefeated at WrestleMania, and the WWE likes its Mania streaks. If Cena can pick up some more wins and turns heel, when he jobs to a face at WrestleMania, it will be huge.

Mark Henry going over The Undertaker is stupid. Sorry, but it is.

Kurt Angle is done? Have you watched SmackDown! recently? The guy has had great matches with The Undertaker, of all people. Angle is also my preference for walking out of WrestleMania with the gold. I know two successful World Title defenses at WrestleMania may seem crazy, but it just goes to show how shit the WWE have built up Mania. Maybe if John Cena was challenging and Kurt Angle had an opponent that can win without fucking up storylines or without it being the entirely wrong time for a title reign, things could be different.

Part of me wants to see Kurt Angle drop the title at Mania, but to the winner of the MITB Ladder Match. Rob Van Dam? He’s the only guy I can see pulling it off without fucking things up. Unless they get Chris Jericho back to SmackDown!, have him enter the MITB Ladder Match, win and take the belt from Angle. That would be awesome.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Not true, I am 19 and I cheer for Cena. So do a lot of people over 12, it's just that a lot of guys go to "screw" with the program and they think its really rebellious to boo a face and cheer the heel and they get a kick out of doing that.

No, there are a few people who are not sheep of corporate America, and don't conform to products they don't want to buy in to. John Cena is one of them. Randy Orton was another. The fans still cheer Batista, still cheer Shawn Michaels, and as much as I hate to see it, they still cheer The Undertaker. Booing those guys would be evidence of your statement, but unfortunately you are just a Cena mark, which is fine, but you need to stop speaking as if everything you say is supported by facts.

Facts are, Cena got booed so much the fans went nuts for Carlito when he stomped the shit out of him. Having Edge win the title from Cena didn't ruin anything, it got a huge reaction, including a temportary spike in the ratings. Fans TUNED-IN to see a John Cena-free broadcast.

I have not been a Cena supporter. I was one of the few last year who said he shouldn't win the WWE Championship. I have kept my basis for hating the John Cena character strictly within the realms of reality. The whole rap/gangster thing is dying off, with most teenage youths actually trying to distance themselves from it, trying to create images of their own. Professional Wrestling itself is kind of a fad that died off, so it shouldn't be expected to keep up with the times, but having a dated pop-culture icon as its figurehead probably isn't the best way to make a comeback. I actually think John Cena going back to his "Prototype" character would be a better direction for the company.

Who cares if Cena sells merchandise? They sacrificed merchandise sales when they turned Gregory Helms heel. Was that a mistake? Common sense would tell you it is not, as talent like Paul London & Brian Kendrick have gotten PPV time and exposure, which hopefully leads to something for those men down the road.

I NEVER buy merchandise. I don't even buy the T-Shirts of bands I listen to. You find a lot of the people who do buy merchandise, are those with enough time, or with a high enough ratio of money they can throw away, to really buy into a product and commit themselves to it. Younger people, as in 12 year olds. They don't have mortgages or taxes, and have more money to spend on their pass-times. Older audiences buy merchandise, too, but you'll find a lot of the people buying into Mysterio masks and Cena chains are little kids showing their full attention to their heroes. That's good and all, but when you go by merchandise sales, this creates a huge problem:

The main audience of the WWE are the ones who instead of buying a Mysterio mask by a "Best of Ric Flair" DVD (generally). This older audience gets offended when the WWE tries and pass narrow ideas past them (Juniors! Haha! They're little, which means they can't be serious athletes!). Unfortunately, some narrow ideas catch on like wild fire (The Undertaker, Boogeyman, etc.). A lot of the time, the older male audience realises that the ideas being embodied within WWE programming are being crafted for the audience that would choose to buy a Mysterio mask, because it means that Rey might see it and be friends with the kid wearing it, rather than buying a Mysterio DVD, which highlights how amazing in the ring he is. When you create that sense of realisation within the audience, that is when you alienate them.

My cousin, who is a long-time watcher of wrestling (he actually introduced me to it), has stopped. I'm not sure when exactly, but he was sick of being looked over by the writers. And honestly, the WWE doesn't seem to be trying. Instead of getting people who can connect with 20-somethings, they get writers who used to write for NICKELODEON! One suggested Melina be revealed as a transexual. Yeah, that is smart. It seems they just throw ideas out there to try and be radical, when in reality, ANYONE could write a more compelling storyline. Stop writing for mentally impaired, and I don't mean to alienate that audience, but for anyone who thinks The Dicks is a funny name, I doubt you will be reading this, because you would have seen the word "corporate" in my first paragraph and given up trying to understand where I am coming from.

Cena's character is an example of "Let's send the kids home happy at the expense of a more mature audience", and it will backfire for the WWE, as even if those kids remember the good times WWE brought them, when they are older and go to watch, they will realise how stupid it is and will move on. So in a way, the audience will always outgrow wrestling.

Now, if the WWE had brains, they would realise that sometimes kids watch shows with more mature concepts that they don't quite understand, and they will watch. And guess what? They won't outgrow it. They may not like it, but they won't feel childish for watching.

[Kane Knight]

Alienoid, it's more than a few. The resounding boos he got in some venues were not some renegade faction who aren't sheep.

The fact is, even the sheep are starting to turn on the sheppherds.

[Skippord]

Alienoid has got to stop posting such long things because Skippord doesnt like to read that much

[Kane Knight]

Kane Knight Concurs with the girlyman.

[Mr. JL]

Both John Cena and Randy Orton could have been big, but the WWE fucked it up. Now they will be nothing big at all. They may be entertaining (at times) but no longer have the ability to be BIG.



Carlito has the chance to be BIG, except he's stuck jobbing to a 56 year old.

[Astley316]

The wwe is stuck in a cross generation time warp, they've gone back to the
80's with cheesy gimmicks like Paul the Pirate Burchill, the Boogeyman and others to name a few. Like Alienoid said some of these ideas have caught on, for example i think Burchill's brilliant, when before he was teaming with Regal i wasn't so sure.
However in the case of Cena it's too much, a large part of the wwe's audience grew up watching the attitude era, and loved wrestling being cutting edge and daring to a point. They see Cena and its more of a cartoon character then the hip image of todays world. He's supposed to be.
They are Bringing Animal back to turn on his partner, several years after his death and you sit there wondering what the hell is the point.

[Skippord]

Kane Knight Concurs with the girlyman.
Wait so you agree with me or do you agree with Arnold

[ThruTheWire]

Also I think the reason Cena gets booed by some people in the crowd is because it is a new trend to boo the faces and cheer the heels, people think it's cool because it is against the usual rules.

Or... John Cena is mediocre and we aren't buying it.

[Kane Knight]

Both John Cena and Randy Orton could have been big, but the WWE fucked it up. Now they will be nothing big at all. They may be entertaining (at times) but no longer have the ability to be BIG.



Carlito has the chance to be BIG, except he's stuck jobbing to a 56 year old.

They didn't exactly book the Rock right the first time either.

However, they could have been looking at a new Attitude Era, with all the players: Build i around their Franchises, Orton and Cena. Supporting characters could easily include Christian, Batista, Hassan, Michaels (He's old but busting his ass), etc. Run with them. Let the over guys work at it, and even if Christian and such never would have been champion, they would have made for an entertaining upper midcard (Remember whne people like Venis would get title shots, and even though they never won, it looked good because they were popular and remotely credible?). Build up people like Carlito, and have main eventers put them over instead of vice versa. Ric Flair's gonnaa leave behind a trail of Jobbers, where Shelton and Carlito should BOTH be on better things.

[Kane Knight]

Or... John Cena is mediocre and we aren't buying it.

Nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu john cena is teh man teh fans <3 him u dont noe wut ur talkin abut its teh renugadez who rune it by h8in evry1 whoz popular

[Skippord]

Woah KK is way too good at that

[Kane Knight]

evrything u sai 2 m3 takez m3 1 st3p |<1053r 2 t3h 3dg3 n im abut 2 br8k

[Pinnacle Charisma]

I think you should get off Cena's dick "Make it or Break it guy" because the bottom line is all face champions have short life spans. Cena has already been the champ for a year. All the fans will be getting sick of him including his teeny bopper army. No matter how much the wwe changes his face character ether to the prototype or to a more thuggish character it will be hard for the fans to stay intrested in someone for so long. However he can survive at a upper- midcard level as a face just so he hasnt the title for a long peroid of time.

Cena's long time future as a top line guy is as a heel.

[Corkscrewed]

mysterio is the young talent they should push

:rofl: That was the first sign you obviously don't know what you're talking about. Calling the 619 a "new move" is another. Rey and many other superstars (not in the WWE, but still) have been doing that for years. Innovation? Rey is innovative, but they let neither him, nor hardly anyone else show it. If he was truly innovative, he'd be pulling off new moves every two weeks. But they don't let him do that.

Cena as their biggest face? Kurt Angle not playing the heel properly? Sounds EXACTLY like what the writers were using as excuses. Wow, are you sure you're not HHH or a WWE writer? Or Vince? :rofl: Hilarious.

And Kurt being old generation? You know, Rey Mysterio's been wrestling professionally TEN YEARS longer than Kurt. If anything, Rey's the oldie.

You totally sound like a WWE writer trying to defend himself by saying things like they're fact, when he's totally wrong but doesn't know it. I'd say it's a joke account, but Funky Fly has denied that, so you're an actual certifiable goon! :rofl:

This is classic. "Make it or break it?" Go back to school where your friends will think you know what you're talking about. Around here, people are smarter than that, so your so-called assertations will continue to be picked apart by... everyone.

[V]

lol, certifiable goon

[Blitz]

The :rofl: 's in Corky's post form a perfect triangle.

[V]

that depends on your screen resolution and window size :o

[RVDmark]

Vermaat This is only my second post but hey. ANGLE ROCKS. Yes his pace has been slower recently but that is because his last 2 matches were against The Undertaker. Go figure. Put Angle in a ring with Chris Benoit or Rey Mysterio and watch his pace suddenly return. Secondly do you really think Mark Henry should end Takers streak? are you insane?? i started watchin wrestling again recently after missing 2004/05 and was extremely happy to find Kurt Angle champion he deserves it and should be champ because he is the best WRESTLER in WWE.

also if you need punctuatuion you could always copy paste from here. ;)
.. !! "" '' ;; :: , ,

[RVDmark]

Oh and to say Kurt angle can't play a proper heel Is like saying Shaun Michaels got screwed at SS '97. E.G Bullsh*t

[Destor]

Kurt CAN play a proper heel. But he didn't during the Cena fued. imho

[Chavo Classic]

Even if your points were valid, you're far too obnoxious and aggressive to be taken seriously.

[Destor]

Don't talk to me like that.

[Kane Knight]

:rofl: That was the first sign you obviously don't know what you're talking about. Calling the 619 a "new move" is another. Rey and many other superstars (not in the WWE, but still) have been doing that for years. Innovation? Rey is innovative, but they let neither him, nor hardly anyone else show it. If he was truly innovative, he'd be pulling off new moves every two weeks. But they don't let him do that.

Cena as their biggest face? Kurt Angle not playing the heel properly? Sounds EXACTLY like what the writers were using as excuses. Wow, are you sure you're not HHH or a WWE writer? Or Vince? :rofl: Hilarious.

And Kurt being old generation? You know, Rey Mysterio's been wrestling professionally TEN YEARS longer than Kurt. If anything, Rey's the oldie.

You totally sound like a WWE writer trying to defend himself by saying things like they're fact, when he's totally wrong but doesn't know it. I'd say it's a joke account, but Funky Fly has denied that, so you're an actual certifiable goon! :rofl:

This is classic. "Make it or break it?" Go back to school where your friends will think you know what you're talking about. Around here, people are smarter than that, so your so-called assertations will continue to be picked apart by... everyone.

I think we found someone dumber than Kalyx. "Make or Break."

Anywya, Mysterio's allowed far more than most people, but he's had to slow down severely. This isn't an example of the big bad WWE forcing Rey to slow down.

But let's be fair. He probably assumes that anyone that short has to be young. ;)

[Kane Knight]

:rofl: That was the first sign you obviously don't know what you're talking about. Calling the 619 a "new move" is another. Rey and many other superstars (not in the WWE, but still) have been doing that for years. Innovation? Rey is innovative, but they let neither him, nor hardly anyone else show it. If he was truly innovative, he'd be pulling off new moves every two weeks. But they don't let him do that.

Cena as their biggest face? Kurt Angle not playing the heel properly? Sounds EXACTLY like what the writers were using as excuses. Wow, are you sure you're not HHH or a WWE writer? Or Vince? :rofl: Hilarious.

And Kurt being old generation? You know, Rey Mysterio's been wrestling professionally TEN YEARS longer than Kurt. If anything, Rey's the oldie.

You totally sound like a WWE writer trying to defend himself by saying things like they're fact, when he's totally wrong but doesn't know it. I'd say it's a joke account, but Funky Fly has denied that, so you're an actual certifiable goon! :rofl:

This is classic. "Make it or break it?" Go back to school where your friends will think you know what you're talking about. Around here, people are smarter than that, so your so-called assertations will continue to be picked apart by... everyone.

I think we found someone dumber than Kalyx. "Make or Break."

Anywya, Mysterio's allowed far more than most people, but he's had to slow down severely. This isn't an example of the big bad WWE forcing Rey to slow down.

But let's be fair. He probably assumes that anyone that short has to be young. ;)

[94 SVT Cobra]

What the fuck was that? Did i just get laid?

[DONNO]

Alright seriously, I'm a noob myself and i think this man is an idiot.

Angle IS the man and I've wanted cena to drop the title ever since he got it, to guys like Christian, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle and Edge. Ratings went up huge when Edge won the wwe Title, because people just generally hate john cena.........And edge is one of their best heels right now.

Mysterio better than Orton? Both are talented, although most of orton's talent is un-used. Orton is over as a heel, one of the best......he faces legendary faces and destroys them (other than undertaker).It gets him huge heat, and the fact that he's already been champion is enough to give him the belt again because its very beleivable and Orton deserves it (even though i don't like how they make him shit on eddie).

Rey Mysterio IS boring character wise, and should not come out of Mania as champ, wrestling wise he is fantastic, but his gimmick is shitty because they make EVERYTHING about Eddie, they should respect eddie and not bother putting him into storylines.

Oh and if this dude thinks he won't see HHH with the title around his waist again, he is very mistakenly wrong because he can get it back literally whenever he wants because he's fuckin the bosses daughter, and because he wants to be better than Ric Flair and shit on his legacy among others.

To sum it up, Cena sucks, HHH wins, Angle rocks, Orton rocks, Mysterio is lame on the mic, good in the ring.

[Shadow]

Well obviously you don't understand what's going on in the wrestling world. If you did you would see that John Cena is the man that the talk is about. Cena has been built with a great genius, much like Austin, Hogan and Goldberg, an unstoppable face that overcomes all odds. This is how you make a face and you know that the name Cena goes with the names Austin, Hogan and Goldberg. Give it a few years and you will all be talking about how Cena is the greatest of ALL time. You're just being misled by Cena's poor build as of late (Edge etc).

Wow...this kid has some serious balls. Serious balls.

Hey tardboy....before you go thinking we're the idiots, think on this. Cena could be the man if the writers stopped trying to make him babyface. An Austin-esq face would do wonders for him. That's the Cena that could go huge if he just doesn't give a fuck about the fans, the other wrestlers, just himself. And it isn't "as of late" moron. Cena's entire persona has changed ever since he won the damn title last year. He sucks sooooo bad right now but he's got so much potential. But hey....if you keep thinking he's doing ok right now, more power to you. I hope, one day, you'll be allowed back in the daycare center with Slim.

[CharismaInjection]

Besides, what the hell are you saying Cena and Edge's feud made Cena look weak???

NYR: Edge pinned Cena BUT Cena had been through an 40 minute match and was utterly destroyed, and he kicked out of one spear.
WHO LOOKS STRONG: Cena

WEEK 1: Cena attacks Edge after the Live Sex and Edge runs away.
WHO LOOKS STRONG: Cena

WEEK 2: Cena attacks Edge after TLC match and Edge runs away.
WHO LOOKS STRONG: Cena.

WEEK 3: Cena makes Masters tap out and Edge run away....again.
WHO LOOKS STRONG: Cena.

At least make sense if you're talking crap.

[Skippord]

Thank you for the sum up I didnt really wanna read all that.

[Xero]

Hey, you think this guy is from that forum full of those retards who think Cena is the man and that Angle sucks?

The N or something...

[Stickman]

I love the "few bad apples" comment. This guy seems to think there's a really small group at EVERY arena who boo the good guy and cheer the bad guys to "ruin" the show. How could a small group of fans sitting at their seats ruin a show? Do you think if the fans really did like Cena that small group of bad apples would be able to get the other 18000 people to boo as well? On TV you can't even hear that "small group."

As for Cena, yeah, he sucks since he's been Champ. If he was the original rapping Cena, he'd probably be better. When's the last time he said a rhyme? Oh by the way, "Chain gang" and "you can't see me" are horrible horrible catchphrases that aren't even catchy.

[Xero]

I love the "few bad apples" comment. This guy seems to think there's a really small group at EVERY arena who boo the good guy and cheer the bad guys to "ruin" the show. How could a small group of fans sitting at their seats ruin a show? Do you think if the fans really did like Cena that small group of bad apples would be able to get the other 18000 people to boo as well? On TV you can't even hear that "small group."
Well, you know, the entire city of New York are bad apples.

Random, I know, but I'm just thinking about the fans at MSG ripping into Lita and her almost coming to tears. It's funny in a sad sort of way.

[Extreme Angle]

Oh by the way, "Chain gang" and "you can't see me" are horrible horrible catchphrases that aren't even catchy.
:rofl: its like on timesplitters future perfect... he always says "its time to split!" but then figures out how lame it is and just says "i gotta go..."

[Evolution]

Oh wow. Vermaat is priceless. 50% of me is hoping that this is a joke account, but at the same time 50% of me is hoping this guy is serious.

Also, KK, leave Linkin Park alone. They have done nothing wrong. ;)

Also it's a shame to LP fans to have their lyrics assosiated with this "certifiable goon".

[Xero]

:rofl: its like on timesplitters future perfect... he always says "its time to split!" but then figures out how lame it is and just says "i gotta go..."
Cena: YOU CAN'T SEE... Wait a minute, that makes no fucking sense...... *Walks off, never to be seen again.*

[Kane Knight]

I love the "few bad apples" comment. This guy seems to think there's a really small group at EVERY arena who boo the good guy and cheer the bad guys to "ruin" the show. How could a small group of fans sitting at their seats ruin a show? Do you think if the fans really did like Cena that small group of bad apples would be able to get the other 18000 people to boo as well? On TV you can't even hear that "small group."

As for Cena, yeah, he sucks since he's been Champ. If he was the original rapping Cena, he'd probably be better. When's the last time he said a rhyme? Oh by the way, "Chain gang" and "you can't see me" are horrible horrible catchphrases that aren't even catchy.

"You can't see me" is actually decent. I wouldn't put it on a T-Shirt, it works. Hell, I even see kids doing it. It works.

Anyhow...This guy has set logic aside.

[Kane Knight]

Oh wow. Vermaat is priceless. 50% of me is hoping that this is a joke account, but at the same time 50% of me is hoping this guy is serious.

Also, KK, leave Linkin Park alone. They have done nothing wrong. ;)

Also it's a shame to LP fans to have their lyrics assosiated with this "certifiable goon".

I don't remember actually attacking LP.

[KillerWolf]

If wwe screws up then I think it will be the start of WWE ending it's reign on top. this of course is triple h vs john cena, cena is obviously the best new talent wwe has had in like 5 years and it is his generation and wwe has been doing things right except making him lose to edge which was stupid but now they should have him beat hhh, hhh is the old generation, john cena is the new generation, he needs to beat hhh to continue his strakl, they should do it like goldberg with counting his wins.

If wwe has cena win they will be on top for a long time because he is the steve austin of his era and this is his generation so wwe should drop the past like HHH and go with the future, if HHH wins it will destroy cena and wwe shouldnt lose their newest star because they need him to carry this generation, they cannot rely on hhh and austin forever because they are old and broken down. Cena has new moves like the FU that got impact unlike the moves hhh uses and all the other old guys, Cena is young and is the new generation.

also on smackdown mysterio vs angle vs orton is a MAKE IT OR BREAK IT for the WWE because mysterio is the young talent they should push, i mean angle should not have won the title. He was pretty good but baldie (angle) is old and broken down now and should drop the title to the future, mysterio. I mean seriously, baldie can't do 619 or any of those new moves, he is too slow and it would be dumbb if he wins.

Undertaker Vs Mark Henry is a MAKE IT OR BREAK IT For the WWE because they need to put the undertaker out to pasture and in the hall of fame, he is old and broken down and keeps taking the spotlight. Mark henry is old too but he has a bit more gas in his tank then the undertaker so they should have henry win and have undertaker retire the same night and be put in the hall of fame cause he was good but now he is just old and broken down.

This wrestlemania is truly something WWE should focus on, what do u think? I think their future depends on this !!!!! !

I dont ever want to see you post here again.

[Vermaat]

lol !!!!

"Chain gang", "You can't see me" are bad catchphrases? lol maybe jabronie was a bad catchphrase too because these are the best catchphrases since The Rock! chain gang allows cena to connect with the fans like "hulkamaniacs" allowed fans to connect with the hulk hogan and "You can't see me" isn't about not seeing him it's about him being so good that u can't even see him because he beats u so fast that you don't even see him to know how he beat u. Sure it is not funny now but that is like that with all catchphrases, they are repeated a lot and no longer become new but that doesn't mean they are bad. Who else in the wwe has come up with new catchphrases lately? no one and Cena brough them in a big way, so to say that cena is bad because of his catchphrases is just GRASPING AT STRAWS

And most of u are saying ooh the reaction is so loud to cena well I dont hear it, sure I hear some bad reaction, but there is also a lot of people cheering for him. The reaction is so unclear that u cant tell, i mean a lot of ppl are excited so they just start yelling and sometimes you can't tell who they are yelling at.

Mysterio bad on the mic? lol !!!! Mysterio is better on the mic than a lot of other guys on the roster. Sure the storyline with eddie was dumb imo but come on they were doing it out of respect to keep the memory alive and because orton can't get good heat otherwise, mysterio is not to blame here, he has been quite emotional in hi promos and I like them because they show emotion unlike Orton who sounds like a old tape recorder. And mysterio was popular way before the eddie angle.

Mysterio a boring character? I think you have been watching a different show because Mysterio is one of the stars that gets the biggest crowd reaction. Him winning the title at Wrestlemania will be the "Wrestlemania Moment" and if it doesn't happen, the Wrestlemania will be crap and fans will go home dissapointed.

And the bad apples do get other guys to boo along because that is crowd psychology, they work the other guys into doing it because they make it seem cool and funny when really it is not.

And Alienoid, you may not buy merchandise but a lot of people do and support the company and the wrestler by buying their merchandise there is nothing wrong with doing that if you are a TRUE wrestling fan. Merchandise makes good money for the WWE so it is smart in a business sense to encourage wrestlers who sell it well like Cena. As far as Helms, well, yeah wwe took a hit with that but he is a cool heel and he probably wasnt selling as much merchandise because everyone who wanted his merchandise probably got it so they decided to make him a heel which was a smart decision.

Cena's character is not for kids, sorry, but hip hop/rap is the culture right now and that's what popular with people now and it allows people to better identify with Cena. Sure, it is good to have a character identify with kids and Cena does that well because guess what? A lot of kids watch the WWE. I don't think a true wrestling fan can say that you can outgrow wrestling, maybe you are not a true wrestlin fan because we know that you can't outgrow wrestling.

And RVD mark, of course henry is not the best guy to break taker's streak, but they gotta do it because Taker is way too old to keep wrestling now. Henry has a few good years left but Taker is just a guy that needs to slip in retirement.

And Angle WAS the best wrestler in the wwe when he was a little younger, but now he has reached his prime and is past it, if he keeps going he will become another Hulk Hogan. Sure, he can still wrestle, but everytime it gets less and less in quality because of his age and broken down physique. It is good to retire on top imo. The best wrestler in the WWE right now is Mysterio anyway imo.

I dunno about you, but I haven't seen the other wrestlers pull out moves as innovative as Mysterio. I mean the most innovative i have seen from angle was a moonsault, yeah, he was really good, but like most of the wrestlers he lacks innovation that Mysterio posses. Sure Mysterio did these moves before the WWE, but he is the one that brough them in and he is the only one that does them. I mean watching a mysterio match is like a roller coaster because you never know what's gonna happen. WWE should have had him win the world title when he first appeared, but now is their chance to go into the new era with two new superstars that can truly put this new era on the map like Rock and Austin did and these guys are Rey and Cena.

[PureHatred]

Vermaat, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[The One]

I :love: PureHatred.

[Just John]

K

Lissen up and take a seat. Cena is the best face wwe has had since austin and hogan, he is not a heel. If they make him heel it would be stupid and he won't sell merchandise and guess what he sells a lot of merchandise, why? Because he is the best face wwe has got since austin!

Orton is pretty good but I have not seen him get good heel heat yet. he got good face heat so he is a pretty good face but i have not seen him get good heel heat. NOTE : cheap heat does not count like what he did with mysterio. Anyone can do that. Orton needs to work on his skill in the ring but he definetely has what it takes, just not polished yet. Cena is 100% polished. He is what everyone is talking about.

The reprecussion of HHH winning the title would be that Cena would be SCREWED again. He would e weakened and they already did that by having him lose to Edge. Cena winning here is a must, Cena losing would result in WWE weaking the man they will build the company around for the next 10 years (if they are smart)

Ok true mysterio is not a young talent, but he is fresh and he is not broken down like baldie. I mean, I like Kurt, he is a legend but sometimes you just have to retire and Angle needs to let another star on top because he just can't go at it anymore like he used to, mysterio can.

And 619 is important because it is a new move. This is exactly what the WWE LACKS, i-n-n-o-v-a-t-i-o-n ! Mysterio keeps creating new moves and his matches are amazing, it's hard to keep up with them, he is truly a man that WWE should build the company around along with Cena. Orton needs more time to develop, he is not ready yet.

You're kinda weird, you have it right, but, then you dont. Like you know the terms, but you aren't really using them in a clever way.

[KillerWolf]

lol !!!!

"Chain gang", "You can't see me" are bad catchphrases? lol maybe jabronie was a bad catchphrase too because these are the best catchphrases since The Rock! chain gang allows cena to connect with the fans like "hulkamaniacs" allowed fans to connect with the hulk hogan and "You can't see me" isn't about not seeing him it's about him being so good that u can't even see him because he beats u so fast that you don't even see him to know how he beat u. Sure it is not funny now but that is like that with all catchphrases, they are repeated a lot and no longer become new but that doesn't mean they are bad. Who else in the wwe has come up with new catchphrases lately? no one and Cena brough them in a big way, so to say that cena is bad because of his catchphrases is just GRASPING AT STRAWS

And most of u are saying ooh the reaction is so loud to cena well I dont hear it, sure I hear some bad reaction, but there is also a lot of people cheering for him. The reaction is so unclear that u cant tell, i mean a lot of ppl are excited so they just start yelling and sometimes you can't tell who they are yelling at.

Mysterio bad on the mic? lol !!!! Mysterio is better on the mic than a lot of other guys on the roster. Sure the storyline with eddie was dumb imo but come on they were doing it out of respect to keep the memory alive and because orton can't get good heat otherwise, mysterio is not to blame here, he has been quite emotional in hi promos and I like them because they show emotion unlike Orton who sounds like a old tape recorder. And mysterio was popular way before the eddie angle.

Mysterio a boring character? I think you have been watching a different show because Mysterio is one of the stars that gets the biggest crowd reaction. Him winning the title at Wrestlemania will be the "Wrestlemania Moment" and if it doesn't happen, the Wrestlemania will be crap and fans will go home dissapointed.

And the bad apples do get other guys to boo along because that is crowd psychology, they work the other guys into doing it because they make it seem cool and funny when really it is not.

And Alienoid, you may not buy merchandise but a lot of people do and support the company and the wrestler by buying their merchandise there is nothing wrong with doing that if you are a TRUE wrestling fan. Merchandise makes good money for the WWE so it is smart in a business sense to encourage wrestlers who sell it well like Cena. As far as Helms, well, yeah wwe took a hit with that but he is a cool heel and he probably wasnt selling as much merchandise because everyone who wanted his merchandise probably got it so they decided to make him a heel which was a smart decision.

Cena's character is not for kids, sorry, but hip hop/rap is the culture right now and that's what popular with people now and it allows people to better identify with Cena. Sure, it is good to have a character identify with kids and Cena does that well because guess what? A lot of kids watch the WWE. I don't think a true wrestling fan can say that you can outgrow wrestling, maybe you are not a true wrestlin fan because we know that you can't outgrow wrestling.

And RVD mark, of course henry is not the best guy to break taker's streak, but they gotta do it because Taker is way too old to keep wrestling now. Henry has a few good years left but Taker is just a guy that needs to slip in retirement.

And Angle WAS the best wrestler in the wwe when he was a little younger, but now he has reached his prime and is past it, if he keeps going he will become another Hulk Hogan. Sure, he can still wrestle, but everytime it gets less and less in quality because of his age and broken down physique. It is good to retire on top imo. The best wrestler in the WWE right now is Mysterio anyway imo.

I dunno about you, but I haven't seen the other wrestlers pull out moves as innovative as Mysterio. I mean the most innovative i have seen from angle was a moonsault, yeah, he was really good, but like most of the wrestlers he lacks innovation that Mysterio posses. Sure Mysterio did these moves before the WWE, but he is the one that brough them in and he is the only one that does them. I mean watching a mysterio match is like a roller coaster because you never know what's gonna happen. WWE should have had him win the world title when he first appeared, but now is their chance to go into the new era with two new superstars that can truly put this new era on the map like Rock and Austin did and these guys are Rey and Cena.

i thought i told you never to post here.

[Dorkchop]

i thought i told you never to post here.

He is definitely not Shock&Awesome.

Wow that was lame.

[.44 Magdalene]

My balls are aching with such a pain that I believe a ten thousand or so of my own sperm may have spontaneously exploded, not willing to see light of day and become babies in a world with such sheer mother fucking stupidity.

I pour a forty for thee, o poor and unfortunate sperm, who gained such a terrible view of the world before you even fertilized something. Thanks, Vermaat. You've committed your first ten thousand or so abortions.

[PureHatred]

My balls are aching ...

What's surprising is how many posts on TPWW seem to start with those exact same words.

[Vermaat]

whaa whaa whaa...very funny, NOT. :roll:

I guess u can't argue with the truth.

[PureHatred]

whaa whaa whaa...very funny, NOT. :roll:

I guess u can't argue with the truth.

Listen, there's no way to argue with the stupid. If you can't see that cena has been getting mixed reactions for months now, to the point where even the writers and biooking team have to acknowledge it, then you're not worth arguing with. Cena was wildly entertaining as a heel, but as a generic goody two-shoes face he's boring as hell. The fac tthat he's not that great of a worker only makes it worse.

You want to compare him to Austin and Rock: guess what? SCSA and Rocky were great in both roles. Cena hasn't been. Basically, you're whole premise is flawed: if Cena is the "future" then having hiim lose would be the thing to do because either a) he becomes the underdog hero again which is where he's gotten a lot of his popularity or b) he'll get a heel turn down the road which is where he was actually entertaining. Either case, Cena should drop the strap Or only retain if he turns.

Ass for Mysterio: his promos are so-so. He's only 'innovative' because every other cruiser on the roster has been welded to the ground by the bookers (realistically, Rey with all his knee injureis is only a shadow of his former self and if you'd seen his WCW work you'd know that.) If some of the other talent was allowed to cut loose..fuck it, Rey couldn't even sniff the jocks of most of the cruisers on the roster if the WWE style wasn't designed to hold down smaller talents.

Both Angle and Orton are better than Rey in every way you can measure a pro wrestler and the only reason the WWE is giving him a push is due to the sympathy factor of Edddie's death. Period.

Henry sucks ass. Beating UT is a major feather in the cap that should be saved for someone with actual..you know...talent. Henry should be made to look just impressive enough that beating him still means something so that he can be SD's second tier heel for the next few months. But other than that....:nono: building stars is a good idea. Mark Henry is not a star.

Also, Kurt Angle and Hulk Hogan comparisons are fucking insane.

Also, even the head of WWE marketing admitted that tonig down Cena's character was an attempt to appeal to a younger demographic at the last stockholders' meeting. In this form, John Cena is being aimed at little kids and teenage girls.

[KillerWolf]

K

Lissen up and take a seat. Cena is the best face wwe has had since austin and hogan, he is not a heel. If they make him heel it would be stupid and he won't sell merchandise and guess what he sells a lot of merchandise, why? Because he is the best face wwe has got since austin!

Orton is pretty good but I have not seen him get good heel heat yet. he got good face heat so he is a pretty good face but i have not seen him get good heel heat. NOTE : cheap heat does not count like what he did with mysterio. Anyone can do that. Orton needs to work on his skill in the ring but he definetely has what it takes, just not polished yet. Cena is 100% polished. He is what everyone is talking about.

The reprecussion of HHH winning the title would be that Cena would be SCREWED again. He would e weakened and they already did that by having him lose to Edge. Cena winning here is a must, Cena losing would result in WWE weaking the man they will build the company around for the next 10 years (if they are smart)

Ok true mysterio is not a young talent, but he is fresh and he is not broken down like baldie. I mean, I like Kurt, he is a legend but sometimes you just have to retire and Angle needs to let another star on top because he just can't go at it anymore like he used to, mysterio can.

And 619 is important because it is a new move. This is exactly what the WWE LACKS, i-n-n-o-v-a-t-i-o-n ! Mysterio keeps creating new moves and his matches are amazing, it's hard to keep up with them, he is truly a man that WWE should build the company around along with Cena. Orton needs more time to develop, he is not ready yet.


SHUT UP, VARMANT !!!

[KillerWolf]

Angle has an injured neck. He needs to retire because he is not the angle that he is, you people are seeing the angle that used to be,

FU is like The Stunner, it has the same type of impact except it's even more impressive

I think you people people dislike Cena for one reason, WWE weakening him by having him lose to Edge. That was a mistake.


Varmint, i am absolutely fucking speechless.

[KillerWolf]

In this form, John Cena is being aimed at little kids and teenage girls.

yeah. which are you, vermaat?

[Blitz]

PureHatred=Ratings

[Vermaat]

Listen, there's no way to argue with the stupid. If you can't see that cena has been getting mixed reactions for months now, to the point where even the writers and biooking team have to acknowledge it, then you're not worth arguing with. Cena was wildly entertaining as a heel, but as a generic goody two-shoes face he's boring as hell. The fac tthat he's not that great of a worker only makes it worse.

You want to compare him to Austin and Rock: guess what? SCSA and Rocky were great in both roles. Cena hasn't been. Basically, you're whole premise is flawed: if Cena is the "future" then having hiim lose would be the thing to do because either a) he becomes the underdog hero again which is where he's gotten a lot of his popularity or b) he'll get a heel turn down the road which is where he was actually entertaining. Either case, Cena should drop the strap Or only retain if he turns.

Ass for Mysterio: his promos are so-so. He's only 'innovative' because every other cruiser on the roster has been welded to the ground by the bookers (realistically, Rey with all his knee injureis is only a shadow of his former self and if you'd seen his WCW work you'd know that.) If some of the other talent was allowed to cut loose..fuck it, Rey couldn't even sniff the jocks of most of the cruisers on the roster if the WWE style wasn't designed to hold down smaller talents.

Both Angle and Orton are better than Rey in every way you can measure a pro wrestler and the only reason the WWE is giving him a push is due to the sympathy factor of Edddie's death. Period.

Henry sucks ass. Beating UT is a major feather in the cap that should be saved for someone with actual..you know...talent. Henry should be made to look just impressive enough that beating him still means something so that he can be SD's second tier heel for the next few months. But other than that....:nono: building stars is a good idea. Mark Henry is not a star.

Also, Kurt Angle and Hulk Hogan comparisons are fucking insane.

Also, even the head of WWE marketing admitted that tonig down Cena's character was an attempt to appeal to a younger demographic at the last stockholders' meeting. In this form, John Cena is being aimed at little kids and teenage girls.

Like I said I kno he has got mixed reactions but like I explained it is because of this new trend where the fans think "booing" him is cool because they want to see the heel do crazy stuff like Kurt Angle did. Cena is just as good as a heel as a face.

Cena has been awesome in both roles as well. He has been playing a traditional face way better then these guys have been. Rock and Austin were too edgy, too dependent on adult humor. It was good, but it was not traditional, Cena took it to the TRADITION and guess what? The TRADITION works. I still hear a lot of people cheer for Cena even through those guys that want to ruin the show because they want to see the heel do something funny.

If Cena turns heel, it will ruin all his face build. I think WWE made a mistake and weakened him by having him be seen as more vulnerable, namely with Edge but even before that. The whole point in building a face is to make him unbeatable, that's Tradition, that's Hulk Hogan (The greatest face of all time). Cena dropping the belt will only make him seem weaker and fans will just go "lol this guy is weak lets not cheer for him" and he will get booed even more.

Heel turn? Could work, Cena can do a heel role good but Raw has no good faces for him to face. A good heel needs to get a good face and until Raw gets some good faces, Cena should be F A C E.

Every cruiserweight has been welded? I heard that one before and I think it's a lie. If they were, why isn't Mysterio welded? Or because they aren't and it's just a dumb rumor and I think that's all it is. The other cruiserweights don't have the innovation and skill that Mysterio has and they are lazy and work a boring style, otherwise they would've been doing these moves. Well, Super Crazy is pretty good.

Angle WAS better then Mysterio. Not anymore, age and injuries have caught to him to make him slow and not as good as he was. Still better then most of the roster? Yeah! As good as Mysterio? Nah. Orton? lol! Orton isn't even close to Mysterio's level, he needs some more training. He's a crappy heel that needs to rely on cheap heat and his matches are full of rest holds and slow. Orton is not innovative and doesn't do too many moves unlike Mysterio so I think Orton, needs to go back to the shop for some extra work.

Henry is not a star. Correct! But Henry can BE a star if The Undertaker realized that he needs to retire and allow Henry to capitalize. Henry has been misused for years and now he's as good as he has ever been. He has been playing a great heel and can be a big monster for several years to come if Undertaker let's him. This can be what Henry needs for all of you to say that he is indeed a star.

Rey was popular before Eddie and that whole angle. WWE had plans to push him even before that.

I can see how they can tone down Cena's character, before he only was popular with adults, but now he can be toned down with everyone, and WWE is a family company and a lot of people watch it so they made his humor more understandable. It did not make him worse now.

And how is Kurt and Hogan comparision insane? Both were great stars, true. Both were the best. True. Both decided to keep on going. True. Now here is where Kurt can become hogan. If he keeps on going with his injuries, he will be just like Hogan soon. If he realizes it's time to retire he will be a legend because that is a smart thing to do. He needs to realize that he is reaching the over the hill status.

[KillerWolf]

PureHatred, i commend you for your efforts, but this guy is so fucking delusional, I cannot even begin to argue with him.

[PureHatred]

I'm not quoting all that bullshit:

You're too much of a fucking Cena mark to make a rational argument. if Cena is so AWESOME as a F A C E, then why is he getting so much heat fomr hardcore fans. Every reason you give is a lame excuse. Face it, people don't like Cena. A lot of people. And not all of them are bandwagon jumpers or the victim of mass hypnosis or whatever the fuck you are talking about. Johncena, honest to god, is boring as hell right now. He's completely predictable. And the fact that you would try to say that Austin and Rocky were too adult or edgy???Are you fuckign stupid? The show is aimed at males ages 17-22, it always has been. Those two drew more money than any other workers' in wrestling history. Cena is a milk and cookies good guy who appeals to absolutely no one except bitches and toddlers. Get over it. Come to terms with your fagdom and stop projecting your insecurities about being a Cena fan on the rest of us.

Youre a fucking idiot when it comes to cruiserwieghts. All you have to do is watch London's work in ROH or Kash's work in ECW to know that those two can be better spot monkeys than Rey can. Both men have been told to tone down their style...its pretty fucking obvious. So you're ignorant. Shut up about Rey already; it's clear you have no clue.

Henry's worthless. UT will be around at leat another year. He should get some sort of Legends match next year and then drop a match to someone with talent in WM 23 after a months long build-up. Losing to a generic brawler like henry after 2 weeks of storyline would be a waste.

Hogan was never the worker Angle was. Kurt just had a match with UT at NWO that was superior to 99% of Hogan's matches in his entire career and it probably wasn't the best match Kurt will have this year. He's not old. He's not worn out. He's still capable of putting on amazing matches where both men end up getting over. And he draws. Yeah..he should retire. :nono:

Varmint.

[PureHatred]

PureHatred, i commend you for your efforts, but this guy is so fucking delusional, I cannot even begin to argue with him.

I know. Last try, I swear. This one did it for me:

Every cruiserweight has been welded? I heard that one before and I think it's a lie. If they were, why isn't Mysterio welded? Or because they aren't and it's just a dumb rumor and I think that's all it is. The other cruiserweights don't have the innovation and skill that Mysterio has and they are lazy and work a boring style, otherwise they would've been doing these moves. Well, Super Crazy is pretty good.

It's like he never watched a match outside of wWE in his entire life.

[Kalyx triaD]

If wwe screws up then I think it will be the start of WWE ending it's reign on top. this of course is triple h vs john cena, cena is obviously the best new talent wwe has had in like 5 years and it is his generation and wwe has been doing things right except making him lose to edge which was stupid but now they should have him beat hhh, hhh is the old generation, john cena is the new generation, he needs to beat hhh to continue his strakl, they should do it like goldberg with counting his wins.

If wwe has cena win they will be on top for a long time because he is the steve austin of his era and this is his generation so wwe should drop the past like HHH and go with the future, if HHH wins it will destroy cena and wwe shouldnt lose their newest star because they need him to carry this generation, they cannot rely on hhh and austin forever because they are old and broken down. Cena has new moves like the FU that got impact unlike the moves hhh uses and all the other old guys, Cena is young and is the new generation.

also on smackdown mysterio vs angle vs orton is a MAKE IT OR BREAK IT for the WWE because mysterio is the young talent they should push, i mean angle should not have won the title. He was pretty good but baldie (angle) is old and broken down now and should drop the title to the future, mysterio. I mean seriously, baldie can't do 619 or any of those new moves, he is too slow and it would be dumbb if he wins.

Undertaker Vs Mark Henry is a MAKE IT OR BREAK IT For the WWE because they need to put the undertaker out to pasture and in the hall of fame, he is old and broken down and keeps taking the spotlight. Mark henry is old too but he has a bit more gas in his tank then the undertaker so they should have henry win and have undertaker retire the same night and be put in the hall of fame cause he was good but now he is just old and broken down.

This wrestlemania is truly something WWE should focus on, what do u think? I think their future depends on this !!!!! !

Hello Vermaat. You're cool. So am I. Welcome to TPWW. Most of these guys are assholes, but I'm better than them. All of them. Your post is thought out but I'm sure you've been getting Hell by these idiots online. Don't worry about them, you have every right to speak your mind. Otherwise, the option to start a Thread wouldn't be so easy to come by.

I believe in giving new guys a break; but there are alot of wastes of reality on here that try to be cool in an online forum. Look up my post and threads; learn about me. And with me I'll see to it that tyrants against free speech will meet a Crisis ahead.

[.44 Magdalene]

Jesus ever lovin' Christ, it's a fuckin' 'tard party in here.

[Kane Knight]

lol !!!!

"Chain gang", "You can't see me" are bad catchphrases? lol maybe jabronie was a bad catchphrase too because these are the best catchphrases since The Rock!

In that case, there've been no good catchphrases since the Rock.

chain gang allows cena to connect with the fans like "hulkamaniacs" allowed fans to connect with the hulk hogan

Which is why his fanbase has diminished since the Chain Gang shit started. People are identifying with him, hence all the boos like Hogan used to get.

Oh wait.

Austin didn't have Stunnaholics. Somehow, he got over without a way to "identify" with the fans, and Cena's clearly supposed to be patterned after him.

You can't see me" isn't about not seeing him

Run-on aside, let me say this.

DUDE. It's not even that deep a metaphor. We get it. We just don't think it's clever, and it's clearly not getting the response you seem to claim.

Who else in the wwe has come up with new catchphrases lately? no one and Cena brough them in a big way, so to say that cena is bad because of his catchphrases is just GRASPING AT STRAWS

So's arguing that no-one else has come up with them. Pretty weak.

And most of u are saying ooh the reaction is so loud to cena well I dont hear it, sure I hear some bad reaction, but there is also a lot of people cheering for him. The reaction is so unclear that u cant tell, i mean a lot of ppl are excited so they just start yelling and sometimes you can't tell who they are yelling at.

If you can't tell, that's a BAD sign. Someone who's supposed to be the franchise getting a reaction you can't tell about is a bad thing. Getting that kind of reaction is bad.

If you're not hearing his response as underwhelming, you're listening through the ears of a total fanboy.

Mysterio bad on the mic? lol !!!! Mysterio is better on the mic than a lot of other guys on the roster.

The guy has almost no mic skills. HE's a poor public speaker and a worse actor.

Mysterio a boring character? I think you have been watching a different show because Mysterio is one of the stars that gets the biggest crowd reaction.

Fan reaction=/=not boring. Do you even know what the fuck you're talking about?

Scotty II hotty gets big reactions too. I guess that's something both Scotty and Rey have over Cena.

And the bad apples do get other guys to boo along because that is crowd psychology, they work the other guys into doing it because they make it seem cool and funny when really it is not.

HOLY SHIT! GET THE TINFOIL HATS!

Even WWE were pushing Cena because he moved the women and children markets, both hard to reach demographics. It's clear he's not popular with the main fanbase, so your argument is dead on arrival.

Cena's character is not for kids

Sorry, it really is. That's why he stopped freestyling, started playing to the children, etc.

sorry, but hip hop/rap is the culture right now and that's what popular with people now and it allows people to better identify with Cena

I could make several points here:

The decline of rap in terms of sales
the lack of identification
The lack of "babyface" rappers.

But honestly, what's the point?

Sure, it is good to have a character identify with kids and Cena does that well because guess what? A lot of kids watch the WWE.

And yet, are not even close to the core demographic.

I don't think a true wrestling fan can say that you can outgrow wrestling, maybe you are not a true wrestlin fan because we know that you can't outgrow wrestling.

But Cena should be able to draw in more than just the "true wrestling fan." Hence the "hip hop" appeal. You're basically admitting that your own argument is empty, because pop culture wouldn't be a factor if this was just about being a true wrestling fan.

And Angle WAS the best wrestler in the wwe when he was a little younger, but now he has reached his prime and is past it, if he keeps going he will become another Hulk Hogan. Sure, he can still wrestle, but everytime it gets less and less in quality because of his age and broken down physique. It is good to retire on top imo. The best wrestler in the WWE right now is Mysterio anyway imo.

Rey Mysterio has lost more steps than Angle. Angle is not like Hogan, as he was able to wrestle, and still can. Angle has a better physique than most of the lockerroom. His "lesser quality" is spectacular, while Rey can't even do the spots that made him huge.

I dunno about you, but I haven't seen the other wrestlers pull out moves as innovative as Mysterio.

In WCW, he was one of the most innovative wrestlers in American wrestling. Still, even in WCW, his innovation is nothing compared to Nova (Now Simon Dean) or Burchill (Now Burchill), and a ton of the cruisers could really rock the joint given a chance. The X-Division in TNA has several people more innovative than the current mysterio, and even the Cruisers on SD could do better. Not to mention Ultimo Fucking Dragon.

These days, Rey is a laugh.

[Kane Knight]

Like I said I kno he has got mixed reactions but like I explained it is because of this new trend where the fans think "booing" him is cool because they want to see the heel do crazy stuff like Kurt Angle did. Cena is just as good as a heel as a face.

If this was true, shouldn't this happen with more people? It's not, which destroys your argument.

[Kane Knight]

Fuck's sake, I just saw Cena's entrance on Raw, and there wasn't more than 5 pairs of descended testicles in the entire "ovation."

Triple H saved that segment, and I haven't been a big fan of him for like 4-5 years now.

[Vermaat]

Purehatred :

1. The show is aimed at everyone and to say that it has always been aimed at 17-22 is wrong because it sure wasn't in time of Hulk Hogan. The only time I can say it was aimed at that group was in the austin time but GUESS WHAT? austin time is over. Why is it over? Because all these 17-21 fans stopped watching that's why WWE moved on to a new era but the problem that they had with the new era is that they had no one to be the representative of it like hogan, austin and rock were. Now Cena is that representative and these 17-21 fans that are booing him are only doing it because they are NOT REAL WRESTLING FANS they don't care about wrestling all they care about is looking "cool" and that's why they boo Cena, to look "cool" well they don't look cool imo they are just screwing with the company. Cena is a good gu thats right, thats what WWE has not had for along time. When all the 17-21 fans left, wwe knew they had to go to the other fans, the mature fans. The mature fans never left and Cena fits those fans.

Is Cena geared to kids? Yes. Is cena geared towards women? Yes. Is Cena geared towards mature fans? Yes. Is Cena geared towards 17-21 guys who only care about looking cool that don't really care about wrestling or the company? NO and that is who boo him. They are pissed because he isn't making stupid edgy jokes or moves like Austin and Rock did, they are pissed because he is such a "good" guy, they are pissed because everyone ELSE loves Cena so they make a lot of noise. A mature fan isn't going to be drowning out them, in fact, they are the loudest that's why you hear them. But in all reality, most of the people are enjoying the doctor of thuganomics!

2. The other cruiserweight can do better? Well maybe they can stop being LAZY and do better! You know why they did better in those small feds? Because they wanted to go to the WWE and be noticed and be paid a huge salary like they are now. That's why.

Now that they got noticed, they are too lazy to keep up this style. Mysterio isn't and that's why he's better then them!

3. Is henry the best? No but henry is pretty good as the heel guy that he is playing. He is getting a good heel role and if Undertaker destroys him it will be just like Big Show before, everyone will think he is crap. Undertaker was a good guy but now he just wants to stay on top and does not allow anyone else to take his monster role. Undertaker needs to retire and allow someone else to take the monster role.


4. Who said Angle was hogan already? He is not. BUt he is BECOMING Hogan. And Hoga was just as good as angle, Hogan just had another style, the classic style and he was a way better face than Angle. Anytime now if Hogan's music plays the fans will explode. He is that good. However hogan made a mistake when he just kept going and going. Into old age. Through injury. On and on. Sound familiar? Yes it is. Because it is what Kurt Angle is starting to do. Yeah his match with taker was pretty good, but it was not like his matches before. And the best part was the ending, the match wasn't all that amazing. Both guys are old and slow now and are starting to FALL A PART!

Kane Knight :

1. No there were good catchphrases. Cena's catchphrase. What makes a good catchphrase? It needs to connect with the fans. It needs to catch you. Cena's phrases are with all the fans and you can't get them out of your head because they work, they are funny, they are clever and they fit him.

Austin didn't have stunnaholics, but he too used catchphrases to identify with the fans. Remember 3:16? Yeah he used that to identify with the fans just like chain gang. Just like fans today become the chain gangs, fans used to become 3:16 to identify with austin.

You can't see me is getting a good response, when Cena waves that hands before going for the 5 knuckle shuffle the fans explode. Which is another thing that makes Cena a great face, the 5 knuckle shuffle. A signature manuever that the fans go nuts for. Rock had the people's elbow and Cena has thr 5 knuckle shuffle

2. No one has come up with catchphrases is a pretty good argument for why Cena is good, he is pushing the business forward and whenever you like it or not, catchphrases are a part of this business and catchphrases move this business forward.

I think Cena gets a good reaction for someone that was in feuds with BAD heels. Let's see, JBL was terrible then Cena feuded with Angle and Angle althought a good heel screwed it all by going "comedy" with that whole anti usa thing. Then Cena gets HHH, who too is a good heel, but is cracking dumb jokes and acting all facey now as well. Cena's mixed reaction, is due to bad heelmanship. Any other face would get a worse reaction with this kind of people.

3. Mysterio is great on the mic, I think you have bee listening to the T.V on mute. Mysterio is great because he is real and emotional. He doesn't have a fake personality, he is all real and you realize that he is just a regular guy and you can sense emotion n his voice. I think the mask makes you all think he is bad at the microphone because you can't see his facial expressions.

And good reaction does mean not boring because fans react to stars that are not boring.

4. WWE didn't move Cena to the kids/women demographic. They EXPANDED Cena. They had Cena tone himself down a little bit to EXPAND him to a new demographic. No one wanted him to only be for the little kids, but kids can't identify with the jokes he was making before so they EXPANDED him.

5. Yeah that's why I see rap/hip hop everywhere? Face it, it is the culture.
Cena does draw in more then the REAL wrestling fans, how does that make my argument empty? Cena draws in REAL fans, kids, women. I think that's a very big demographic. The only group he doesn't draw in are the 17-21 people trying to be all "cool" and rebellious. But guess what, a lot of 17-21 listen to rap/hip hop and identify with Cena, so these "rebelious" aren't even all of that demographic. Like I said earlier, the mature fans don't care about looking cool and aren't going to do immature things like boo the good guy because they care about WRESTLING.

6. Kurt Angle is hanging on by a thread. He has slipped from where he was. Mysterio might have lost a step but he is still way higher then Angle. Angle can't do 6-1-9. Angle can't do the west coast pop. This is because Angle is old. Mysterio is part of a totally different wrestling generation then Angle, he has a completely different moveset that angle would find difficult o keep up with!!!

7. There are younger and faster cruiserweights in other feds, but none of them are in the WWE. Mysterio brough the style to the WWE, he is the innovator. A lot of these guys from other feds came to wwe, like ultimo dragon and got lazy and stopped being innovative. Mysterio didn't.

There's not a whole lot of point to keep dismissing Cena as being a bad face because some immature kids "boo" him and to dismiss Mysterio because some other wrestlers have "been" better then him when they don't do that anymore out of laziness. Mysterio deserves it because he is not lazy.

[Blitz]

2. The other cruiserweight can do better? Well maybe they can stop being LAZY and do better! You know why they did better in those small feds? Because they wanted to go to the WWE and be noticed and be paid a huge salary like they are now. That's why.

Now that they got noticed, they are too lazy to keep up this style. Mysterio isn't and that's why he's better then them!


7. There are younger and faster cruiserweights in other feds, but none of them are in the WWE. Mysterio brough the style to the WWE, he is the innovator. A lot of these guys from other feds came to wwe, like ultimo dragon and got lazy and stopped being innovative. Mysterio didn't.

Man, you've made a lot of foolish points in this thread, but you just ascended to a new level with this stuff. :nono:

[PureHatred]

Varmint, you're beyond stupid. At least when trolls hit these boards they are trying to be entertaining or get a rise out of folks. But with all the time and effort you put in these responses its pretty clear these are your actual opinions. Which shows that you have not clue one as to what the fuck you are talking about. Not one. It's like you have abasic understanding of the business, but somewhere along the way you're own though process was retarded by WWE markishness.

You're too smart to be in the WWE chat rom but not yet bright enough to actually form a coherent opinion of your own. If you truly refuse to believe the opinions of people who obviously have been watching far longer than you, who have obviously seen far more matches than you, who obviously have a better understanding of basic concepts of crowd reaction and marketing than you, and (lets face it) aren't dumb enough to believe that all the cruisers on the roster are just 'lazy' than postng your ideas is worthless.

Don't post a thread if you're too stubborn or stupid to read and process the responses you're going to get. You aren't as smart as you obviosuly think you are.

[Vermaat]

Varmint, you're beyond stupid. At least when trolls hit these boards they are trying to be entertaining or get a rise out of folks. But with all the time and effort you put in these responses its pretty clear these are your actual opinions. Which shows that you have not clue one as to what the fuck you are talking about. Not one. It's like you have abasic understanding of the business, but somewhere along the way you're own though process was retarded by WWE markishness.

You're too smart to be in the WWE chat rom but not yet bright enough to actually form a coherent opinion of your own. If you truly refuse to believe the opinions of people who obviously have been watching far longer than you, who have obviously seen far more matches than you, who obviously have a better understanding of basic concepts of crowd reaction and marketing than you, and (lets face it) aren't dumb enough to believe that all the cruisers on the roster are just 'lazy' than postng your ideas is worthless.

Don't post a thread if you're too stubborn or stupid to read and process the responses you're going to get. You aren't as smart as you obviosuly think you are.

Purehatred : Oh yeah, resorting to personal insults really shows how mature and smart you are :roll:
You whole argument is "I am right you are wrong because I am so smart" guess what that argument does not work. You don't seem to understand the point I am making. You might be lacking READING COMPREHENSION And as far as me not understanding the business, WWE is pushing Cena as a face for a long time now. I think people working in WWE, the MOST succesful and BEST wrestling company know a bit more about wrestling then some fan who think it's "cool" too boo the good guy.
This thread isn't about me, this thread is about WRESTLEMANIA, so unless you can adress the points I am making, which you obviously can't, maybe you should go to the WWE chat room and type in "cena sucks" 600 times in a row !!!!!

As far as me not understanding crowd reaction, I think it's you who doesn't understand CROWD PSYCHOLOGY with you denying that a few bad apples sway the crowd !!!! And of course the cruiserweights are lazy. Why would they wrestle very well when they are not in the WWE and come to the WWE and stop? Evil Vince making them? Then why didn't he make Mysterio do it! Because he didn't. They got their place and they got lazy. Why take the riskas anymore? You can just cruze!

[Kane Knight]

I'll respond to that later. I can think of about 30 things I'd rather do right now than trying to argue with a guy who thinks Mysterio is the end-all of cruiserweights.

...Sadly, drill a hole through each of my nuts was one...

[Arnold HamNegger]

"Chain gang", "You can't see me" are bad catchphrases? "You can't see me" isn't about not seeing him it's about him being so good that u can't even see him because he beats u so fast that you don't even see him to know how he beat u.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f146/ShotzCA/kid.jpg

Jesus christ kid, ARE YOU FUCKING WITH ME?!?!

[HaTeR]

this is actually quite entertaining

[Kane Knight]

What's funny is that I'm usually one of the first people to defend Cena, but I really can't see myself lying to support him.

[Vermaat]

All I have said has been the TRUTH. FACE IT.

[Kane Knight]

Apparently, truth is subjective based on how ignorant you are.

[Nervous Ferret]

the original cena was the man, they fucked him over so bad after he got popular on his own, and tried to make him even more popular with their retarded ways

the only reason i am still a mark for him is because of how he was when he first became the heel white rapper

they can still fix him, but it seems like he is just gonna be fed to HHHDidn't read the rest of thread after this post because it covers my feelings exactly. :heart:

[PureHatred]

Purehatred : Oh yeah, resorting to personal insults really shows how mature and smart you are :roll:
You whole argument is "I am right you are wrong because I am so smart" guess what that argument does not work. You don't seem to understand the point I am making.

You're not making any salient points. Everything you're saying is nonsense and gibberish. You have no proof or examples to back up your statements. And your examples of CROWD PSYCHOLOGY or BAD APPLES or LAZY CRUISEWEIGHTS are patently ridiculous. Even the most ardent WWE fan wouldn't buy that garbage.

Also, genius, the reason why a lot of companis like the WWE and networks like Spike and multibillion dollar industries like the NFL go so hard after the male ages 17-22 demographic is that its been shown that its one of the key markets in terms of sponsorship.

[PureHatred]

All I have said has been the TRUTH. FACE IT.

No. It's been your opinion. That's all. The ignorant opinion of one hopeless WWE mark who can't get past his own bias to admit that the wrestlers he has a hard-on for are not necessarily the favorite wrestlers of allother fans. Basically, you're saying that if we don't like who you like, then we're wrong. Which is arrogant, shortsighted, and exactly the kind of mentality that got the WWE in its current state.

[Kane Knight]

It's thinking like that that's ruining this business, PH. :nono:

[.44 Magdalene]

I tried to scream, but all that came out was blood.

[Kane Knight]

I tried to cum, but all that bled out was scream

[Arnold HamNegger]

No. It's been your opinion. That's all. The ignorant opinion of one hopeless WWE mark who can't get past his own bias to admit that the wrestlers he has a hard-on for are not necessarily the favorite wrestlers of allother fans. Basically, you're saying that if we don't like who you like, then we're wrong. Which is arrogant, shortsighted, and exactly the kind of mentality that got the WWE in its current state.

I couldn't agree more. I think Vermaat is actually Johnny Ace.

[KillerWolf]

Purehatred : Oh yeah, resorting to personal insults really shows how mature and smart you are :roll:
You whole argument is "I am right you are wrong because I am so smart" guess what that argument does not work. You don't seem to understand the point I am making. You might be lacking READING COMPREHENSION And as far as me not understanding the business, WWE is pushing Cena as a face for a long time now. I think people working in WWE, the MOST succesful and BEST wrestling company know a bit more about wrestling then some fan who think it's "cool" too boo the good guy.
This thread isn't about me, this thread is about WRESTLEMANIA, so unless you can adress the points I am making, which you obviously can't, maybe you should go to the WWE chat room and type in "cena sucks" 600 times in a row !!!!!

As far as me not understanding crowd reaction, I think it's you who doesn't understand CROWD PSYCHOLOGY with you denying that a few bad apples sway the crowd !!!! And of course the cruiserweights are lazy. Why would they wrestle very well when they are not in the WWE and come to the WWE and stop? Evil Vince making them? Then why didn't he make Mysterio do it! Because he didn't. They got their place and they got lazy. Why take the riskas anymore? You can just cruze!

HOLY FUCK !!!

[KillerWolf]

by the way, Varmint, you might as well stop neg-repping me. you have no rep power, so it has no effect.

[Kane Knight]

Whoever he is, he's definitely one of the guys hired to apologise for shitty booking.

[Marcyo]

Whoever he is, he's definitely one of the guys hired to apologise for shitty booking.

Someone promote him.

[Marcyo]

^ I'm talking about KK, not the other random troll.

[Kane Knight]

Promote me to what? I'm already a 4 star General pain in the ass...

[Vermaat]

You're not making any salient points. Everything you're saying is nonsense and gibberish. You have no proof or examples to back up your statements. And your examples of CROWD PSYCHOLOGY or BAD APPLES or LAZY CRUISEWEIGHTS are patently ridiculous. Even the most ardent WWE fan wouldn't buy that garbage.

Also, genius, the reason why a lot of companis like the WWE and networks like Spike and multibillion dollar industries like the NFL go so hard after the male ages 17-22 demographic is that its been shown that its one of the key markets in terms of sponsorship.

Just because U say that everything I say is nonsense and gibberish, doesn't make it so, you say it because you know it's the truth and it makes you angry that someone doesn't see things the way you do (in a biased and BUSINESS IGNORANT WAY).

Crowd psychology is true. Do you ever hear the term "started a chant". That's right, a small group in the crowd can "start a chant" and have the rest of the people join in. But it starts in that core group. The rest of the crowd sees it and in order not to be left out even if they don't agree with it they join in. It is called PRESSURE TO CONFORM. research it. A small group of bad apples starts these things and in order to not be left out everyone joins in, thats why it's a fact and any scientist will agree.

Lazy cruiserweights are an observation. You have these cruiserweights who are all great outside the wwe and they come in and they start wrestling poorly. HMMM! Let's see, why did they come to the WWE? Because it was their goal, like the goal of any wrestler to come to the WWE because WWE is the big time. This is where you get paid a lot and get exposure. They did their best to get here and now they get lazy when they do. Lets show an example, if you had to work really hard to get a good job and show how good you are and you worked for like 12 hours a day and then you get the job. Another reason is that they dont want to take the risks. Guys like mysterio do.

Are you still going to work as hard? NO because you already have the job. There is no INCENTIVE to work hard. Same with the cruiserweights. Once they are in the WWE they no longer have the enrthusiasm to put 300% out there and that's why quality drops.

Companies do cater to 17-21 but GUESS WHAT WWE is not football, WWE is wrestling and TRADITIONALLY wrestling has been a fanmily demographic. Look at hulk hogan, he was a traditional face. It was only in the stone cold era that WWE went for this 17-21 demographic but now WWE is taking a different path to sucess. Is 17-21 a good dempographic to target? YES IT IS. Is the family demographic good to target? Yes it is. WWE is just targetting a different demographic, the traditional demographic / TRUE WRESTLING FANS.

No. It's been your opinion. That's all. The ignorant opinion of one hopeless WWE mark who can't get past his own bias to admit that the wrestlers he has a hard-on for are not necessarily the favorite wrestlers of allother fans. Basically, you're saying that if we don't like who you like, then we're wrong. Which is arrogant, shortsighted, and exactly the kind of mentality that got the WWE in its current state

What you have been saying has been IRRELEVANT FACTS and your opinions and PERSONAL INSULTS. And WWE in it's current state? Well that means all those things are great because WWE is the best and most popular wrestling company, they are the only company in prime time in the U.S.A and they took WCW and ECW OUT OF BUSINESS. Current state? Seems great to me!

Maybe you should drop your opinions and get down to the facts because the facts are INCONSISTENT with your opinions. Face it, WWE is the top company in the wrestling world for a reason. They are just EXPANDING their demographic with John Cena. They still have character that go with the 17-21demographic like Finlay and RVD, but they have also expanded. That is smart. Heck, if people ran the WWE the way you want to it would FAIL with champs like RVD or something (look at ECW).

[HaTeR]

cena sucks dick

[Vermaat]

cena sucks dick

This is example to the maturity level of the kind of fans that boo cena. WWE should not cater to such immature viewers !!!!!

[HaTeR]

yea because an annoying white guy who thinks he can rap and isn't funny is going to attract mature viewers

[Goulet]

This is example to the maturity level of the kind of fans that boo cena. WWE should not cater to such immature viewers !!!!!
You are an example of what is wrong with the world... please kill yourself now... thank you!

[Kane Knight]

Interesting point of fact: Starting a chant is easy if the audience is ambivalent or presdisposed.

For example, starting "we want tables" is easy, in a tables match, or when the Dudley Boys/Team 3D are in a match. Chanting "Taker sucks" is nigh on impossible to pull off.

I've tried starting some chants for the Hell of it, and it just doesn't work if you're going against the grain.

Booing and popping work the same way.

[Kane Knight]

This is example to the maturity level of the kind of fans that boo cena. WWE should not cater to such immature viewers !!!!!

Yeah, they should cater to 13 year olds and retarded "adults" who pretend that if they ignore the vast number of people who dislike Cena, that they don't exist.

[Arnold HamNegger]

And of course the cruiserweights are lazy. Why would they wrestle very well when they are not in the WWE and come to the WWE and stop? Evil Vince making them? Then why didn't he make Mysterio do it! Because he didn't. They got their place and they got lazy. Why take the riskas anymore? You can just cruze!

See, this is where you come across as a delusional, brainwashed WWE fanboy. It's a fact that Vince banned alot of the high risk moves that the Cruiser's use (ask Paul London) and it's a FACT that wrestlers really have little control over the move sets booked in their matches. That's not laziness, they really don't have a choice. You make these comments/ opinions of yours like they are scientifically proven to be correct, when in fact you're 100% wrong. You can make all the longwinded, rambling, nonsensical posts in the world...but it's not gonna change the fact that your...http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f146/ShotzCA/headbutt.jpg

[Vermaat]

Yeah one or two guys can't get the crowd to chant, but a small group of disgruntled bored guys who think "its cool" to screw up the reaction on T.V can certainly do enough to 1. OUTSHOUT those that are doing the right reaction and 2. PRESSURE THE others to join.

It's A RUMOR that Vince restricted some moves, but let's think about it shall we. 1. It is a rumor, and not a fact. Just because a wrestler says its true, it's not an indicator until the WWE releases an official statement. 2. Even if true, like with the pile driver, these moves haven't been banned, they have been restricted to be used only on occasion and superstars that can perform them safely. Obviously Paul London has not been doing them safely. And there are ways to be good in the ring without these dangerous moves, look at Rey Mysterio, he has the 6-1-9 which is not as dangerous as these moves but is still innovative and fun to watch. There is a difference between a move that is good because it is innovative and fun to watch and a move that's good because it puts everyone in DANGER.

[HaTeR]

the 619 is the weakest looking signature move ever.. how does it put anyone in danger..

[Blue Demon]

I just want to point out one thing: WM 13 was a pretty shitty but it didn't really hurt the WWE very much in the long run

[Kane Knight]

Yeah one or two guys can't get the crowd to chant, but a small group of disgruntled bored guys who think "its cool" to screw up the reaction on T.V can certainly do enough to 1. OUTSHOUT those that are doing the right reaction and 2. PRESSURE THE others to join.

Yeah, it's peer pressure! That's it! :rofl:

[Goulet]

Yeah one or two guys can't get the crowd to chant, but a small group of disgruntled bored guys who think "its cool" to screw up the reaction on T.V can certainly do enough to 1. OUTSHOUT those that are doing the right reaction and 2. PRESSURE THE others to join.
You're an idiot... IT ISN'T A SMALL GROUP FUCKHEAD!!! The general opinion is that Cena sucks! And as much as I don't think it's his fault it's the way he's booked, you CAN'T blame the crowd for it, they paid for their ticket and can chant whatever they fucking want to. And a WHOLE FUCKING LOT OF THEM are chanting "Cena Sucks!" or Booing him!
It's A RUMOR that Vince restricted some moves, but let's think about it shall we. 1. It is a rumor, and not a fact. Just because a wrestler says its true, it's not an indicator until the WWE releases an official statement. 2. Even if true, like with the pile driver, these moves haven't been banned, they have been restricted to be used only on occasion and superstars that can perform them safely. Obviously Paul London has not been doing them safely. And there are ways to be good in the ring without these dangerous moves, look at Rey Mysterio, he has the 6-1-9 which is not as dangerous as these moves but is still innovative and fun to watch. There is a difference between a move that is good because it is innovative and fun to watch and a move that's good because it puts everyone in DANGER.
WWE aren't going to release an official statement fuckhead, do you buy everything they want you to? They toned down the cruiserweights to attempt to avoid injuries... Although it's ridiculous... and the 6-1-9 while it may be innovative is a really stupid and unrealistic move... again I think you should kill yourself :wave:

[Vermaat]

the 619 is the weakest looking signature move ever.. how does it put anyone in danger..

That's my point it is a safe and exciting move. Maybe these "poor" cruiserweights should stop being lazy and use some innovative moves that are safe or GASP come up with some innovative moves and bring them in like Mysterio did.

You're an idiot... IT ISN'T A SMALL GROUP FUCKHEAD!!! The general opinion is that Cena sucks! And as much as I don't think it's his fault it's the way he's booked, you CAN'T blame the crowd for it, they paid for their ticket and can chant whatever they fucking want to. And a WHOLE FUCKING LOT OF THEM are chanting "Cena Sucks!" or Booing him!


You're right it's not a small group...but it STARTS with a small group and they pressure the others to join them and outshout them if needed and then next time after fans see it on T.V they copy it and that small groups grows just because some guys want to be seen as "cool" but it all starts out in a small group.

WWE aren't going to release an official statement fuckhead, do you buy everything they want you to? They toned down the cruiserweights to attempt to avoid injuries... Although it's ridiculous... and the 6-1-9 while it may be innovative is a really stupid and unrealistic move... again I think you should kill yourself

That makes sense, they limited the dangerous moves and especially for those performers who are dangerous. You can be innovative and exciting without being dangerous and it makes sense, WWE does not want half the roster on the shelf just because some cruiserweights can't come up with SAFE moves.

And 6-1-9 unrealistic? Well wrestling is unrealistic. Stupid? YOU go and try to pull it off. It's not stupid because it takes a lot of skill to do it and it gets a great reaction. If you call the 6-1-9 stupid you might as well call the rockbottom and the stunner stupid.

And me kill myself? well I suggest you GROW UP

[Kane Knight]

So if it takes a lot of skill to do something, it's not stupid?

Wow. Compelling argument.

[Xero]

And 6-1-9 unrealistic? Well wrestling is unrealistic. Stupid? YOU go and try to pull it off. It's not stupid because it takes a lot of skill to do it and it gets a great reaction. If you call the 6-1-9 stupid you might as well call the rockbottom and the stunner stupid.

And me kill myself? well I suggest you GROW UP
How can you even compare the Stunner or Rock Bottom to the 619? The 619 is a fancy kick followed by a sitting senton, that's it. The Stunner and Rock Bottom actually LOOK like they have impact (and they can have impact legitimately, but that's the beside the point). The 619 looks fucking weak, even for his size.

[Extreme Angle]

VERMAAT'S GAY!!!!!

[Kane Knight]

How can you even compare the Stunner or Rock Bottom to the 619? The 619 is a fancy kick followed by a sitting senton, that's it. The Stunner and Rock Bottom actually LOOK like they have impact (and they can have impact legitimately, but that's the beside the point). The 619 looks fucking weak, even for his size.

And it doesn't look that good on anyone over a buck-fifty.

The Rock Bottom and Stone Cold Stunner aren't powerful looking finishers, but can be done on ANYONE. They'll look sloppy on someone who doesn't sell, and they'll be harder to make look good on someone Show's size, but realistically, almost all moves are.

[Vermaat]

How can you even compare the Stunner or Rock Bottom to the 619? The 619 is a fancy kick followed by a sitting senton, that's it. The Stunner and Rock Bottom actually LOOK like they have impact (and they can have impact legitimately, but that's the beside the point). The 619 looks fucking weak, even for his size.

The 6-1-9 is a CRUISERWEIGHT move so it can't have the same type of impact as a Rock Bottom, but it can be compared because it HAS impact, it's a trademark move and it's INNOVATIVE. 6-1-9 is a kick to the head that doesn't have impact? That's weak? lol !!!! I think a kick to the head has more impact then being dropped on your back like rock bottom. Face it, your dislike of rey mysterio for his desire does not make his moves any less innovative then they already are.

[HaTeR]

You're right it's not a small group...but it STARTS with a small group and they pressure the others to join them and outshout them if needed and then next time after fans see it on T.V they copy it and that small groups grows just because some guys want to be seen as "cool" but it all starts out in a small group.

Seeing you say this is starting to annoy me. Have you been to a wrestling show before? Just because other people are chanting a certain phrase or whatever doesn't mean you're 'pressured' into it, it's not like they're bullying people into it. People hate cena, ALOT of people. I'm not going to speak for why everyone else hates him, but personally I find the guy to be very unentertaining and annoying, I don't care what gimmick he's in.

Btw, How does booing a face make you look "cool"?

[Xero]

Who said I disliked Mysterio? I'm only SAYING that his FINISHER looks WEAK.

Wow, a kick to the face, REALLY innovative. He's not the first one TO do the round-about. He may BE the first to use it as a MOVE (inside THE ring), BUT the fake DIVE is nothing new.

[Arnold HamNegger]

It's A RUMOR that Vince restricted some moves, but let's think about it shall we. 1. It is a rumor, and not a fact. Just because a wrestler says its true, it's not an indicator until the WWE releases an official statement.

This just proves the point that you're a brainwashed fanboy. "OMG~! Nothing is true unless it's in an official WWE statement!" Because lord knows, WWE would never want to hide the truth from the public or it's fans.

And there are ways to be good in the ring without these dangerous moves, look at Rey Mysterio, he has the 6-1-9 which is not as dangerous as these moves but is still innovative and fun to watch.

This coming from someone who thinks Cena is a good in ring performer. Before you state your opinion as fact AGAIN, why don't you watch One Night Stand and see how much the crowd thinks Rey's 6-1-9 is innovative and fun to watch.

I still totally don't understand your thinking in your "Cruiserweights are lazy" argument when you say that "they got their place in WWE, so why do anymore high risk moves?" You do know that the matches are scripted ahead of time by writers right? THEY DON'T HAVE A CHOICE WHETHER TO DO THESE HIGH RISK MOVES OR NOT! If you've ever seen Rey wrestle in any other company other than WWE, you'd see that WWE has toned his high risk moves WAY DOWN, so you're counter arguement that "WWE doesn't tone Rey down, so all the other cruiser's must be lazy" is 100% Grade A donkey shit.

[Vermaat]

Seeing you say this is starting to annoy me. Have you been to a wrestling show before? Just because other people are chanting a certain phrase or whatever doesn't mean you're 'pressured' into it, it's not like they're bullying people into it. People hate cena, ALOT of people. I'm not going to speak for why everyone else hates him, but personally I find the guy to be very unentertaining and annoying, I don't care what gimmick he's in.

Btw, How does booing a face make you look "cool"?

Yes I have and no it doesn't mean you're presured into it like a bully would pressure you into but if two guys next to you are chanting something and you're sitting there quiet and then more guys join in, you eventually join in. It is just part of HUMAN NATURE. You do it to fit in.

And booing a face makes you look "cool" because you are being rebelious and going against the normal reaction.

[HaTeR]

So people who boo faces don't actually hate them, just want to rebel right...

[Shadow]

Wow kid...you've certainly got balls. Indeed. But hold on a tic....explain to me this.

HOW THE HELL DOES SAYING A GOOD MAN IS NOW ROASTING IN HELL FOR CHEAP HEAT A WAY TO HONOR HIS MEMORY!?

I went back to the third page for that.

[Xero]

So, in other words, Vermaat isn't cool because he cheers for the good guy.

Wow, he just insulted himself and didn't even know it.

[Vermaat]

Wow kid...you've certainly got balls. Indeed. But hold on a tic....explain to me this.

HOW THE HELL DOES SAYING A GOOD MAN IS NOW ROASTING IN HELL FOR CHEAP HEAT A WAY TO HONOR HIS MEMORY!?

I went back to the third page for that.

I always criticized Orton for this crap. I meant Mysterio referring to Eddie and dedicating matches to him is honoring memory. Not orton.

and people who boo faces often do it to Rebel. A face is a face for a reason, you are meant to cheer him.

[Vermaat]

So, in other words, Vermaat isn't cool because he cheers for the good guy.

Wow, he just insulted himself and didn't even know it.

That's why I put it in quotation marks. It's not really cool. They just think it is when it's not.

[HaTeR]

not really bud

[Xero]

A face is a face for a reason, you are meant to cheer him.
That, my friend, has many exceptions.

Look at Stone Cold Steve Austin (most famous example). Originally a heel. The WWE tried their damnedest to get him over as a heel, but the fans wouldn't boo him. He became the biggest face in the last 20 years.

On the flip side, look at Rock. The WWE tried (not as hard as Austin, though) to keep him face, but the fans turned on him. He became one of the biggest heels in the last 20 years.

So, while faces are made to be cheered, when a good portion of the fanbase is turned off by them, and boo them, they have to turn heel. It's just natural.

The problem here, though, is the WWE doesn't WANT to turn Cena because he has a grip on the most prized demographic, the younger ones. Not prized because they go to the shows or even watch the TV shows all the time, but prized because kids always WANT WANT WANT and more often than not parents GET GET GET/BUY BUY BUY.

[Kalyx triaD]

Like it or not, the way this Vermaat kid is thinking is exactly how WWE is running it's business right now.

[Xero]

Like it or not, the way this Vermaat kid is thinking is exactly how WWE is running it's business right now.
Yeah, it is. And the way they're running it, especially in this slump, is wrong.

[anandraval]

I used to enjoy cena way back in 2003. Suddenly as time passed I realised that this guy is not as cool as I thought he was. His in-ring ability is a major point. What do we get out of his match.
1. The start off-bang! bang! punches

2. next 10 minutes he gets beaten up


3. after the 10 minutes TADA !!! SUPERMAN suddenly builds up momentum with some awfully idle clotheslines, 5 knuckle shuffles (even Candice can move outta that move)
and wraps the match up with a stupid F-U where he seems to just lift his opponent and slams him delicately with all due care for the pin.

No way chain gang soldier, cena doesn't deserve a goldberg-like run nor does he deserve to represent the wwe as the world heavyweight champion.

God Bless your ignorant soul...

[Vermaat]

That, my friend, has many exceptions.

Look at Stone Cold Steve Austin (most famous example). Originally a heel. The WWE tried their damnedest to get him over as a heel, but the fans wouldn't boo him. He became the biggest face in the last 20 years.

On the flip side, look at Rock. The WWE tried (not as hard as Austin, though) to keep him face, but the fans turned on him. He became one of the biggest heels in the last 20 years.

So, while faces are made to be cheered, when a good portion of the fanbase is turned off by them, and boo them, they have to turn heel. It's just natural.

The problem here, though, is the WWE doesn't WANT to turn Cena because he has a grip on the most prized demographic, the younger ones. Not prized because they go to the shows or even watch the TV shows all the time, but prized because kids always WANT WANT WANT and more often than not parents GET GET GET/BUY BUY BUY.

Those are unique cases, and let's face it, crowds were all about rebellion then so that played a role. But when you look back both Austin and Rock turned out to be great at both roles. Austin got most fame as a face but he was a great heel during invasion. WHAT?! lol !!!

Rock of course turned to be one of the greatest faces ever. It is just that these "rebbelious" fans don't give these characters a chance at their roles. If they gave them a chance, they could show what they can, and they did later. I can already see Cena as a great face and so can a lot of other fans, but like I said, these fans and the facts that the heels he has been facing haven't been doing their right role all come together to screw him out of a chance to shine. WWE shouldn't cave in to the fans because often they don't know what is good for the business.

I think to boo a face is disrespectful give them a chance because you never know (look at rock and austin)
As I said, the demographic has been EXPANDED by Cena not changed.

[Kalyx triaD]

I used to enjoy cena way back in 2003. Suddenly as time passed I realised that this guy is not as cool as I thought he was. His in-ring ability is a major point. What do we get out of his match.
1. The start off-bang! bang! punches

2. next 10 minutes he gets beaten up


3. after the 10 minutes TADA !!! SUPERMAN suddenly builds up momentum with some awfully idle clotheslines, 5 knuckle shuffles (even Candice can move outta that move)
and wraps the match up with a stupid F-U where he seems to just lift his opponent and slams him delicately with all due care for the pin.

No way chain gang soldier, cena doesn't deserve a goldberg-like run nor does he deserve to represent the wwe as the world heavyweight champion.

God Bless your ignorant soul...

Damn. Sounds like a The Rock match. Although Cena doesn't have anywhere near the charisma Sarge has. It is kinda silly to put down the 5-Nuckle Shuffle when it's born from the same silly-ass move types as the People's Elbow and the WORM.

Gotta admit, though; I like doing them all in the videogames.

[Shadow]

I always criticized Orton for this crap. I meant Mysterio referring to Eddie and dedicating matches to him is honoring memory. Not orton.

and people who boo faces often do it to Rebel. A face is a face for a reason, you are meant to cheer him.

Again....why? Belive it or not, Orton can get credible heat. Really. He can. The WWE just killed him when he won the championship. So please, please, tell me how, by bringing up Eddie, do they keep the memory alive?

[Vermaat]

Yeah, it is. And the way they're running it, especially in this slump, is wrong.

SLUMP? Yeah a slump is when your company is the best in the business as the ONLY company on primetime in the U.S and that put out it's competition OUT OF BUSINESS. Sounds like a slump to me. WWE is making a lot of money, not a slump in any WAY, SHAPE or FORM.

As far as his matches, yeah they are similar, but that works. That's the traditional face. That's what Hogan did. That's what Rock did. That's what Austin did. Just because it's tradition, doesn't mean it doesn't work, it does work and I enjoy his matches because they allow you to wait for that big move and comeback. It works good for a face character.

[Kalyx triaD]

SLUMP? Yeah a slump is when your company is the best in the business as the ONLY company on primetime in the U.S and that put out it's competition OUT OF BUSINESS. Sounds like a slump to me. WWE is making a lot of money, not a slump in any WAY, SHAPE or FORM.

*Dives for cover*

[Vermaat]

Again....why? Belive it or not, Orton can get credible heat. Really. He can. The WWE just killed him when he won the championship. So please, please, tell me how, by bringing up Eddie, do they keep the memory alive?

when they do it in a respectful way, such as with Mysterio, they are thanking him for all that he has done for the business by including him the program. But this is only if it's done with respect, not in the way with Orton, so they are helping keep his memory alive.

[Xero]

Those are unique cases, and let's face it, crowds were all about rebellion then so that played a role. But when you look back both Austin and Rock turned out to be great at both roles. Austin got most fame as a face but he was a great heel during invasion. WHAT?! lol !!!

Rock of course turned to be one of the greatest faces ever. It is just that these "rebbelious" fans don't give these characters a chance at their roles. If they gave them a chance, they could show what they can, and they did later. I can already see Cena as a great face and so can a lot of other fans, but like I said, these fans and the facts that the heels he has been facing haven't been doing their right role all come together to screw him out of a chance to shine. WWE shouldn't cave in to the fans because often they don't know what is good for the business.

I think to boo a face is disrespectful give them a chance because you never know (look at rock and austin)
As I said, the demographic has been EXPANDED by Cena not changed.
Do you even know what I was referencing when I was talking about Rock? I was talking about his ORIGINAL heel turn from just after he left the Rocky Maivia gimmick and joined the Nation. He had to BECAUSE the fans BOOED him.

If they turned Cena RIGHT NOW, he could be a great heel. If they keep him as a face, in the current gimmick, after (not if) he loses to Hunter at Mania, he's going to fade into the background for a long, long while.

[Shadow]

when they do it in a respectful way, such as with Mysterio, they are thanking him for all that he has done for the business by including him the program. But this is only if it's done with respect, not in the way with Orton, so they are helping keep his memory alive.

But they didn't. They really didn't. Having him dedicate his royal rumble win to Eddie is ok. Really. I'm fine with that. The shit that happened afterwards....no.

But hey, I guess that's the type of reasoning I get for talking to the number one Cena mark.

[Xero]

when they do it in a respectful way, such as with Mysterio, they are thanking him for all that he has done for the business by including him the program. But this is only if it's done with respect, not in the way with Orton, so they are helping keep his memory alive.
But, you see, Rey may be doing it for memorial purposes (storyline-wise), it has in turn lead to Orton bashing Eddie.

Had Rey not been told to call out for Eddie, Orton would never have bashed Eddie.

[Vermaat]

Do you even know what I was referencing when I was talking about Rock? I was talking about his ORIGINAL heel turn from just after he left the Rocky Maivia gimmick and joined the Nation. He had to BECAUSE the fans BOOED him.

If they turned Cena RIGHT NOW, he could be a great heel. If they keep him as a face, in the current gimmick, after (not if) he loses to Hunter at Mania, he's going to fade into the background for a long, long while.

I know what you are talking about. My point is still there.

Hmm, let's see, WWE had Cena lose to Edge and he stayed Face. Did he fade into the background? No WWE realized that they had to give him the title back. The "cool" fans stopped booing him because they were bored and he lost the title and the real reaction was heard. WWE can turn him heel and it will work because he is a great heel, but WWE needs faces more.

[Vermaat]

But, you see, Rey may be doing it for memorial purposes (storyline-wise), it has in turn lead to Orton bashing Eddie.

Had Rey not been told to call out for Eddie, Orton would never have bashed Eddie.

That's Orton's fault (or whoever came up with it), maybe he should have done something else to get heat.

Mysterio dedicating some matches to eddie is fine I think, they were good friends. And I think it is fine when Rey uses the moves in his match and calls on for Eddie. But I do think it was a mistake to make him lose when he calls on Eddie.

[Xero]

That's Orton's fault (or whoever came up with it), maybe he should have done something else to get heat.

Mysterio dedicating some matches to eddie is fine I think, they were good friends. And I think it is fine when Rey uses the moves in his match and calls on for Eddie. But I do think it was a mistake to make him lose when he calls on Eddie.
Do you think it's proper to "channel the powers of Eddie" right after he died? For storyline purposes?

Come on, THAT was pure bullshit.

[Vermaat]

Do you think it's proper to "channel the powers of Eddie" right after he died? For storyline purposes?

Come on, THAT was pure bullshit.

Ok that's going too far to channel his power, but using his moves and dedicating matches to him is respect.

[Xero]

Thing is, that's what started the entire Rey/Eddie thing. Sure, dedicating a match or using a move isn't bad, but this entire thing got off to a horrible start and has been horrible ever since.

[Vermaat]

Thing is, that's what started the entire Rey/Eddie thing. Sure, dedicating a match or using a move isn't bad, but this entire thing got off to a horrible start and has been horrible ever since.

Not Rey's fault that other guys took it too far

[Shadow]

Rey could've stopped it at any time dippy.

[Xero]

Rey could've stopped it at any time dippy.
Yeah, really. I'm sure that had Rey gone up to Vince and said that he didn't want to have any part in this he would have gone with it considering the circumstances.

[Arnold HamNegger]

Yes I have and no it doesn't mean you're presured into it like a bully would pressure you into but if two guys next to you are chanting something and you're sitting there quiet and then more guys join in, you eventually join in. It is just part of HUMAN NATURE. You do it to fit in.


Do you realize how stupid this sounds or are you actually trying to be a raving idiot? So if I show up at your house with a group of people and we all start chanting that your Mom is a slut and gang rape her, you will "join in" and "do it to fit in?" Because according to you, HUMAN NATURE is to be a spineless douchebag and do things because you're pressured. Hmmmmm, does this logic run in your family Vermaat? Do you have a sister?

[Vermaat]

Do you realize how stupid this sounds or are you actually trying to be a raving idiot? So if I show up at your house with a group of people and we all start chanting that your Mom is a slut and gang rape her, you will "join in" and "do it to fit in?" Because according to you, HUMAN NATURE is to be a spineless douchebag and do things because you're pressured. Hmmmmm, does this logic run in your family Vermaat? Do you have a sister?

That's extreme and not relevant. That's like me saying "eating is good" and you saying "What if you eat poison".

You can't deny that people do things to fit in in large crowds especially in cheering someone. You are inclined to do so.

[Kalyx triaD]

Vermaat, how long were you a fan of Cena? Since his Prototype days or more recently? Just asking out of curioustity.

[Arnold HamNegger]

You can't deny that people do things to fit in in large crowds especially in cheering someone. You are inclined to do so.

So basically, your point is that wrestling fans that currently boo Cena don't do it because they actually have a mind of their own and don't like him, they boo because they are spineless sheep that boo because they are pressured too. Is that your story? Are you sticking to it? So by your logic, if you were running WWE during the time of Wrestlemania 13, you would have refused to listen to the crowd booing Bret Hart and kept him face? You would have used the logic that people weren't booing him, they were just being bullyed into it by people trying to go against the grain? With your thinking and the way the current state of "WWE Think" is, this would have robbed the wrestling world of the great Bret Hart/Canada vs. USA feud, because Hart would never have turned heel and Stone Cold never would have turned face. Instead we would have had a similar Cena/Angle situation where Austin would have come out and bad mouthed the United States just in effort to remain a heel and keep Hart face. Then when people kept booing Hart, Austin would have taken the blame for not playing his heel role correctly.

That's basically what you're telling me right? It's thinking like this that has pissed off fans all over the world, because their voices and opinions aren't being heard....better yet, according to jackasses like you and the WWE...you're hearing them, but making excuses and phantom scenerios for as to why fans are reacting against what the WWE writer monkeys want. That's just pathetic and plain ignorant.

[Kane Knight]

SLUMP? Yeah a slump is when your company is the best in the business as the ONLY company on primetime in the U.S and that put out it's competition OUT OF BUSINESS. Sounds like a slump to me. WWE is making a lot of money, not a slump in any WAY, SHAPE or FORM.

Shadow's right, you've got balls the size of asteroids to so bravely disgregard reality when you speak.

Fact is, when you're doing ratings that are half as good as they once were, when you're firing wrestlers and touring smaller venues to avoid taking a loss, and all this with no televised competition, you're in a slump. WWE was doing this before TNA had a TV deal, and they haven't managed to improve now that they're not the only game in town. They've managed to lose their slot on Spike TV and their Thursday night slot for Smackdown. But I guess that's because a few bad apples made the networks buckle to peer pressure. :roll:

Meanwhile, you can argue what you want about rumours, but the interesting thing is we've gotten the moveset bit straight from the wrestlers on several occasions, so it's not really a rumour at that point.

Again, you do a good job at not letting reality get in the way. I wish I was cool enough to state fiction like fact and then declare myself the "winner." Me, my self esteem's so low I have to rely on reality.

Why can't I be as cool as you?
In my own mind, anyway
:'(

[Kane Knight]

That's extreme and not relevant. That's like me saying "eating is good" and you saying "What if you eat poison".

You can't deny that people do things to fit in in large crowds especially in cheering someone. You are inclined to do so.

Go try and start a mosh pit in church. Get a bunch of people (Remember, it has to be a small number for your scenario to work) see how many people otherwise disinclined join in.

[Vermaat]

Vermaat, how long were you a fan of Cena? Since his Prototype days or more recently? Just asking out of curioustity.

No I have been only a fan of him since he debuted against Angle on Smackdown in the green tights and before he even became what he is now. I never watched him as The Prototype because I don't have OVW on T.V here...



So basically, your point is that wrestling fans that currently boo Cena don't do it because they actually have a mind of their own and don't like him, they boo because they are spineless sheep that boo because they are pressured too. Is that your story? Are you sticking to it? So by your logic, if you were running WWE during the time of Wrestlemania 13, you would have refused to listen to the crowd booing Bret Hart and kept him face? You would have used the logic that people weren't booing him, they were just being bullyed into it by people trying to go against the grain? With your thinking and the way the current state of "WWE Think" is, this would have robbed the wrestling world of the great Bret Hart/Canada vs. USA feud, because Hart would never have turned heel and Stone Cold never would have turned face. Instead we would have had a similar Cena/Angle situation where Austin would have come out and bad mouthed the United States just in effort to remain a heel and keep Hart face. Then when people kept booing Hart, Austin would have taken the blame for not playing his heel role correctly.

That's basically what you're telling me right? It's thinking like this that has pissed off fans all over the world, because their voices and opinions aren't being heard....better yet, according to jackasses like you and the WWE...you're hearing them, but making excuses and phantom scenerios for as to why fans are reacting against what the WWE writer monkeys want. That's just pathetic and plain ignorant.

Well I wasn't watching back then so I don't know how the situation was. The fans don't know how to run a profitable business, so the WWE does not listen to them, if it did it would be crazy. I mean you all thing ECW was good but it went out of business.

Fact is, when you're doing ratings that are half as good as they once were, when you're firing wrestlers and touring smaller venues to avoid taking a loss, and all this with no televised competition, you're in a slump. WWE was doing this before TNA had a TV deal, and they haven't managed to improve now that they're not the only game in town. They've managed to lose their slot on Spike TV and their Thursday night slot for Smackdown. But I guess that's because a few bad apples made the networks buckle to peer pressure.


Of course they are doing ratings that are half as good as they were doing because all these 17-21 moved on to something "cooler" because they weren't real fans, they were just watching because it's cool, so ratings went down to what they used to be and to the TRUE WRESTLING enthusiasts.

As far as wrestlers saying those rumors, that means nothing. Of course they won't say "Oh I have been lazy that's why my matches are not as good".

And the UPN network is notoriously dumb, look at all their other shows. Smackdown is highest rated on there so it was upn's fault.

USA is a better network then Spike anyway, WWE wanted to drop them anyway.

Go try and start a mosh pit in church. Get a bunch of people (Remember, it has to be a small number for your scenario to work) see how many people otherwise disinclined join in.

Yeah but cheering is normal in sports. Moshing is not normal in church going.

[Xero]

Well I wasn't watching back then so I don't know how the situation was. The fans don't know how to run a profitable business, so the WWE does not listen to them, if it did it would be crazy. I mean you all thing ECW was good but it went out of business.
It's official. You are just too mentally challenged to be in any contact with human beings.

Seriously, I've never heard a more retarded excuse for why ECW went out of business.

[Vermaat]

It's offical. You are just too mentally challenged to be in any contact with human beings.

Seriously, I've never heard a more retarded excuse for why ECW went out of business.

ECW went out of business because they did not have a sound BUSINESS STRATEGY. They catered too much to a small group of fans and not enough to the wider fan base. It's just one of the reasons why they went out of business. There were more reasons

[Kane Knight]

Of course they are doing ratings that are half as good as they were doing because all these 17-21 moved on to something "cooler" because they weren't real fans, they were just watching because it's cool, so ratings went down to what they used to be and to the TRUE WRESTLING enthusiasts.

You just argued how successful and dominant WWE is. They're cutting corners to avoid hemmoraging money. You lose. Sorry, kid, but trying to change your argument midstream doesn't work.


As far as wrestlers saying those rumors, that means nothing. Of course they won't say "Oh I have been lazy that's why my matches are not as good".

They're not rumours though. They're statements. You can argue their validty, but they are not rumours. Nor have they merely come from cruiserweights.

And the UPN network is notoriously dumb, look at all their other shows. Smackdown is highest rated on there so it was upn's fault.

USA is a better network then Spike anyway, WWE wanted to drop them anyway.

LOL!

Wow, again, no grasp on reality really helps your argument. It's better to be on a channel that will pre-empt you 10+ times a year? Okay, whatever. I guess that's why they tried to strongarm Spike instead of simply moving to USA. Except foir the fact that Spike were the ones who turned WWE down. Your grand machiavellian scheme has failed.


Yeah but cheering is normal in sports. Moshing is not normal in church going.

Booing someone you like is not normal in wrestling, sports, or any other scenario.

[Xero]

ECW went out of business because they did not have a sound BUSINESS STRATEGY. They catered too much to a small group of fans and not enough to the wider fan base. It's just one of the reasons why they went out of business. There were more reasons
Heyman has said it himself, they went out because they lost their spot on TNN and they fucked him over. Had he kept the spot it probably would have survived.

Granted, Heyman is a horrible business man and it was bound to catch up to him, but the fan base had nothing to do with ECW going out. They were starting to sell out bigger places and were starting to catch on. Then TNN canned them for the WWE and it fucked them completely.

[Kane Knight]

Heyman has said it himself, they went out because they lost their spot on TNN and they fucked him over. Had he kept the spot it probably would have survived.

Granted, Heyman is a horrible business man and it was bound to catch up to him, but the fan base had nothing to do with ECW going out. They were starting to sell out bigger places and were starting to catch on. Then TNN canned them for the WWE and it fucked them completely.

Sadly, he's now countering things said by his precious WWE.

[Vermaat]

You just argued how successful and dominant WWE is. They're cutting corners to avoid hemmoraging money. You lose. Sorry, kid, but trying to change your argument midstream doesn't work.


The only things they have been cutting is BAD WRESTLERS. I don't see where WWE cuts corners.

They're not rumours though. They're statements. You can argue their validty, but they are not rumours. Nor have they merely come from cruiserweights.


As far as I'm concerned, anything on the internet that's not on an official site is a RUMOR.

Wow, again, no grasp on reality really helps your argument. It's better to be on a channel that will pre-empt you 10+ times a year? Okay, whatever. I guess that's why they tried to strongarm Spike instead of simply moving to USA. Except foir the fact that Spike were the ones who turned WWE down. Your grand machiavellian scheme has failed.


I believe USA has better spread. Well, I guess Spike made a mistake then. Nothing to do with the WWE, just Spike being stupid.


Booing someone you like is not normal in wrestling, sports, or any other scenario.

Yeah but the act of booing isn't. It is normal to boo or cheer in sports, so my argument still holds. In the case of church, you can get a small group of people to read something non religious if they all come in and say it's cool and the others will be pressured to do this because that's whats normal in church, reading.

Granted, Heyman is a horrible business man and it was bound to catch up to him, but the fan base had nothing to do with ECW going out. They were starting to sell out bigger places and were starting to catch on. Then TNN canned them for the WWE and it fucked them completely.

Yah but catering to that group of fans was a factor, I think, in why TNA did not think good of ECW.


This coming from someone who thinks Cena is a good in ring performer. Before you state your opinion as fact AGAIN, why don't you watch One Night Stand and see how much the crowd thinks Rey's 6-1-9 is innovative and fun to watch.

I still totally don't understand your thinking in your "Cruiserweights are lazy" argument when you say that "they got their place in WWE, so why do anymore high risk moves?" You do know that the matches are scripted ahead of time by writers right? THEY DON'T HAVE A CHOICE WHETHER TO DO THESE HIGH RISK MOVES OR NOT! If you've ever seen Rey wrestle in any other company other than WWE, you'd see that WWE has toned his high risk moves WAY DOWN, so you're counter arguement that "WWE doesn't tone Rey down, so all the other cruiser's must be lazy" is 100% Grade A donkey shit.

I didn't see this earlier so I'll respond now. I didn't see one night stand so if you can elaborate on what the crowd did there...

There matches aren't 100% scripted, they still flow them. Of course Rey may have been a little more crazy before coming to the WWE, but like I said, he can be safe and still be interesting. The other cruiserweights don't posses the skill. They are either dangerous or boring.

[¡Coñaso!]

I just want to say this, if people are being bad apples in the audience. How come its only happening when it involves John Cena? Is it merely a coincidense? If you say it is then this should be happening more often but it doesn’t, so its ridiculous. This only happens when John Cena is involved. Face it bro, its not a trend some people just don’t like John Cena at his current state right now.
When Chris Jericho first debuted, he was supposed to be a heel. But the crowd reaction was nuts. Everyone went crazy. It wasn’t people “messing with the show” they just liked Jericho. Some things are just spontaneous, take a life of their own, and plans are changed. There comes a time where crowd reaction is just too hard to ignore.

And just so you know. The main audience IS in fact the 18-34 age demographic. That demographic is a lock. They’re always gonna be there for them. John Cena is targeted towards the women and children and you can’t blame the WWE, because the HARDEST demographic for any sports-like product is the women and the children. So everything John Cena is doing is just gravy, they’re loving it. So to say that Cena is targeted towards any male over the age of 18 is wrong. He’s simply not. Not that there’s anything wrong with liking Cena if you have facial hair.

So to sum it up, the boo’s come from dudes ages 18+, and the cheers come from little kids and chicks.

And in response your first post, there shouldn’t be a “Goldberg-like” counter for his wins. Cena has lost already, many times…

Mark Henry does not have any gas in the tank. He never did. He’s always injured, and you can’t focus anything on a guy that unpredictable, as far as health goes. I don’t like the undertaker but let him win this one.

I’m not touching the Kurt Angle stuff.

[Arnold HamNegger]

The fans don't know how to run a profitable business, so the WWE does not listen to them, if it did it would be crazy.

WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK PAYS THEIR PAYCHECKS!?!?! I can't believe that you just said that. WRESTLING COMPANIES CAN'T SURVIVE WITHOUT LISTENING TO THE FANS! The fans dictate who is going to get over and who isn't, that's not decided in the WWE creative room! You should just stop arguing this thread, because anyone that makes a statement like that doesn't know their asshole from their ear. Any business MUST listen to their customers and change the product accordingly. Without the customers/fans...you don't have a goddamn business! If you owned a restaraunt Vermaat, according to your logic..you wouldn't have to change the menu if the customers didn't like the food. FUCK EM right? Customers don't know how to run a profitable business, so they'll eat what ever the fuck I give them..right!?!

If you are still delusional to think that this jackassic statement is correct, you should pop in any wrestling documentary or read any article and you'll see that across the board, people in the wresling industry recognize that the fans control wrestling..not the other way around. It's a fact of life. You couldn't be more incorrect.


Of course they are doing ratings that are half as good as they were doing because all these 17-21 moved on to something "cooler" because they weren't real fans, they were just watching because it's cool, so ratings went down to what they used to be and to the TRUE WRESTLING enthusiasts.

You either have to be the biggest brainwashed mark on earth or on the WWE payroll, because this statement is just ignorant beyond words! They weren't real fans? It has nothing to do with the fact that the product sucks now right? I'm willing to bet that alot of fans who don't watch the current crap WWE shells out, still watch wrestling DVD's or get their wrestling fix from another source. They didn't just stop cold turkey because wrestling "wasn't cool" anymore. Once again, you place the blame on the fans and not the WWE. The problem is the product, not the fans who stopped buying the product.

You know, I work in a psychiatric hospital Vermaat and the way you argue in a manner that is so out of touch with reality reminds me of most of our residents. Try meds, they might help you out.

[Kane Knight]

The only things they have been cutting is BAD WRESTLERS. I don't see where WWE cuts corners.

Smaller venues?

Less production work?

Besides, if they're cutting bad wrestler,s why are there so many on the roster?

As far as I'm concerned, anything on the internet that's not on an official site is a RUMOR.

A shame these were in legit interviews, some of which could be seen on TV or heard on radio.

I believe USA has better spread. Well, I guess Spike made a mistake then. Nothing to do with the WWE, just Spike being stupid.

Yeah, it was a dumb move for Spike to not pay more for a product whose ratings were on a steady decline at the time.

Yeah but the act of booing isn't. It is normal to boo or cheer in sports, so my argument still holds.

It really doesn't. You're still trying to insist that people will fold to peer pressure of a much cmaller group against something they're inclined to do. You can try and argue how other examples don't work, but the fact remains yours doesn't pan out.

[Kane Knight]

I just want to say this, if people are being bad apples in the audience. How come its only happening when it involves John Cena? Is it merely a coincidense?

He's ignored this like 8 times. He has no argument.

[Kane Knight]

They weren't real fans? It has nothing to do with the fact that the product sucks now right?

It's moot anyway.

In his argument, he admitted ratings were down, which basically was admitting his argument was flawed. He then tried to change the subject, but it's moot.

[KillerWolf]

SLUMP? Yeah a slump is when your company is the best in the business as the ONLY company on primetime in the U.S and that put out it's competition OUT OF BUSINESS. Sounds like a slump to me. WWE is making a lot of money, not a slump in any WAY, SHAPE or FORM.

As far as his matches, yeah they are similar, but that works. That's the traditional face. That's what Hogan did. That's what Rock did. That's what Austin did. Just because it's tradition, doesn't mean it doesn't work, it does work and I enjoy his matches because they allow you to wait for that big move and comeback. It works good for a face character.


God, I hate you so much, Varmint.

[KillerWolf]

when they do it in a respectful way, such as with Mysterio, they are thanking him for all that he has done for the business by including him the program. But this is only if it's done with respect, not in the way with Orton, so they are helping keep his memory alive.

FUCK YOU, VARMINT! WRESTLING IS FAKE! ORTON AND REY ARE ONE. DON'T YOU GET IT?! REY IS JUST AS GUILTY FOR THE THINGS THAT WERE SAID AS ORTON! REY IS A SCUMBAG FOR BEING A PART OF THIS FEUD WHICH HAS PISSED ON THE SANCTITY OF THE MEMORY OF EDDIE GUERRERO! YOU ARE FUCKING INCREDIBLE! HOW OLD ARE YOU, 10...11?! HOLY FUCK, I JUST REALIZED THAT YOU THINK THIS SHIT IS REAL!

[Dorkchop]

FUCK YOU, VARMINT! WRESTLING IS FAKE! ORTON AND REY ARE ONE. DON'T YOU GET IT?! REY IS JUST AS GUILTY FOR THE THINGS THAT WERE SAID AS ORTON! REY IS A SCUMBAG FOR BEING A PART OF THIS FEUD WHICH HAS PISSED ON THE SANCTITY OF THE MEMORY OF EDDIE GUERRERO! YOU ARE FUCKING INCREDIBLE! HOW OLD ARE YOU, 10...11?! HOLY FUCK, I JUST REALIZED THAT YOU THINK THIS SHIT IS REAL!

It's still real to me, damnit.

[Kane Knight]

Rey's even worse. Rey's supposed to be his friend.

Orton is berating a coworker's memory.

Rey is a willing participant in the desecration of someone who was supposed to be his friend's memory

[KillerWolf]

The only things they have been cutting is BAD WRESTLERS. I don't see where WWE cuts corners.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

ok, calm. calm. ok.

varmint, you are without a doubt the biggest DICKHEAD to ever post here. i think you deserve some sort of an award for your stupidity. at first, i thought, "maybe this guy is John Cena". but now i am wondering if you are in fact Vince McMahon.

[Indifferent Clox]

never fucking mind

[KillerWolf]

Rey's even worse. Rey's supposed to be his friend.

Orton is berating a coworker's memory.

Rey is a willing participant in the desecration of someone who was supposed to be his friend's memory

:yes:

[Big Vic]

I don't know what show u were watching but on raw it was a miniority, a large number of people still cheered for cena, u know, a few bad apples ruin a bunch. And like u said, a lot of people cheered angle out of respect because he has given them a lot of entertainment and is old and they realize that so they cheer him for being an elder out of respect. I think Cena was amazing as anti authority especially on Smackdown when he attacked Teddy Long. You know your trying to say everyone likes cena but 90% of the people here don't

[Kane Knight]

You know your trying to say everyone likes cena but 90% of the people <s>here</s> don't

[Xero]

You know your trying to say everyone likes cena but 90% of the people here don't
We, the bad apples, are like the homeless. We tend to cluster together.

At least that's probably Varmaat's thought process.

[Kane Knight]

Anything to keep from accepting reality, right?

[Vermaat]

I just want to say this, if people are being bad apples in the audience. How come its only happening when it involves John Cena? Is it merely a coincidense? If you say it is then this should be happening more often but it doesn’t, so its ridiculous. This only happens when John Cena is involved. Face it bro, its not a trend some people just don’t like John Cena at his current state right now.


This is because of baldie. This small group began showing during the angle/cena feud because Angle has not been playing an effective heel character. Thus, the "cool" guys began to boo Cena and it caught on so now everyone associates "Cena" with doing the wrong reaction. This is why it only happens when it involves John Cena. They know everyone has associated this with him and it would be harder to star the chant against someone else.

Mark Henry does not have any gas in the tank. He never did. He’s always injured, and you can’t focus anything on a guy that unpredictable, as far as health goes. I don’t like the undertaker but let him win this one.


Mark Henry deserves a chance. Look at him. He is huge and huge guys work as heels. Besides being Huge Mark Henry also has awesome mic skills, a lot of charisma and he is also fast for a huge guy in the ring. He has a lot of moves and in general, he works the BIG MAN MATCH very well. Of course he is not gonna fly around like a cruiserweight, he is a BIG MAN WRESTLER.

And Cena is being targeted for Women and Kids along with the males because wwe EXPANDED his demographic.



WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK PAYS THEIR PAYCHECKS!?!?! I can't believe that you just said that. WRESTLING COMPANIES CAN'T SURVIVE WITHOUT LISTENING TO THE FANS! The fans dictate who is going to get over and who isn't, that's not decided in the WWE creative room! You should just stop arguing this thread, because anyone that makes a statement like that doesn't know their asshole from their ear. Any business MUST listen to their customers and change the product accordingly. Without the customers/fans...you don't have a goddamn business! If you owned a restaraunt Vermaat, according to your logic..you wouldn't have to change the menu if the customers didn't like the food. FUCK EM right? Customers don't know how to run a profitable business, so they'll eat what ever the fuck I give them..right!?!


In a small manner they do. Of course in a small way you have to listen to the fans, but you can't go 100% by them. It will not be smart for business. Fans don't know the business. They do not understand the business. They will be wanting stuff that is NOT GOOD for the business because it looks "cool". So you can listen to them to a small extent, but to base your business around them would be foolish. You will end up with cards full of hardcore matches.

I'm willing to bet that alot of fans who don't watch the current crap WWE shells out, still watch wrestling DVD's or get their wrestling fix from another source. They didn't just stop cold turkey because wrestling "wasn't cool" anymore. Once again, you place the blame on the fans and not the WWE. The problem is the product, not the fans who stopped buying the product.


Yeah they aren't real wrestling fans. They watch DVDs? Right, so they moved on to the "cooler" new thing to the "cooler" new feds. They were never real fans of the WWE. The problem is not the product. The product is at it's best right now. Look at the quality of wrestlers now and in the stone cold era. In the stone cold era we had guys like mideon on and now everyone is a quality wrestler and we don't have crappy brawlers like Mideon anymore and if we do, they are not on T.V often.

And as far as a psychiatric institution, maybe you need to join your patients because YOU are the one resorting to personal insults.

Smaller venues?

Less production work?

Besides, if they're cutting bad wrestler,s why are there so many on the roster?


Yes, because a lot of the FAKE FANS left because they weren't true fans. WWE is simply restructuring to their new fanbase.

I am not sure what you mean by "less production work" but it seems the production is the same.

Yes, there are still some bad wrestlers on the roster, but a lot have been cut. WWE makes mistakes, sometimes they sign bad wrestlers, but they quickly get rid of them. For example look at The heart throbs and the dicks. They were crap, that's why WWE fired them.

WWE realized they have no potential so they fired them. They keep some bad wrestlers like Tomko because they know they have potential.

A shame these were in legit interviews, some of which could be seen on TV or heard on radio.


Of course the wrestlers aren't gonna say that they got lazy, they will blame bad vince for their own BAD ATTITUDES !!!

Yeah, it was a dumb move for Spike to not pay more for a product whose ratings were on a steady decline at the time.


It still gets very good ratings.

It really doesn't. You're still trying to insist that people will fold to peer pressure of a much cmaller group against something they're inclined to do. You can try and argue how other examples don't work, but the fact remains yours doesn't pan out.

It works because it is what happened. Wrestling is a weird world, odd things happen.

He's ignored this like 8 times. He has no argument.

I thought I adressed this, well I now adressed this.

In his argument, he admitted ratings were down, which basically was admitting his argument was flawed. He then tried to change the subject, but it's moot.

Yes ratings are a little down. That doesn't mean my argument is flawed, WWE is still a very sucesful company and until there is a competitor, WWE is leading a very good business, because FACE IT, they destroyed the competion and are not allowing anyone to compete.

FUCK YOU, VARMINT! WRESTLING IS FAKE! ORTON AND REY ARE ONE. DON'T YOU GET IT?! REY IS JUST AS GUILTY FOR THE THINGS THAT WERE SAID AS ORTON! REY IS A SCUMBAG FOR BEING A PART OF THIS FEUD WHICH HAS PISSED ON THE SANCTITY OF THE MEMORY OF EDDIE GUERRERO! YOU ARE FUCKING INCREDIBLE! HOW OLD ARE YOU, 10...11?! HOLY FUCK, I JUST REALIZED THAT YOU THINK THIS SHIT IS REAL!

lol !!! yes personal insults and a red font is going to make your point more correct. Buy a keyboard with caps locks first and GROW UP KID. Rey is not as guilty as Orton is. Orton chose to say a line that was WRONG. Rey never said such a line.

I don't think it is real, I know it is scripted.

Rey's even worse. Rey's supposed to be his friend.

Orton is berating a coworker's memory.

Rey is a willing participant in the desecration of someone who was supposed to be his friend's memory

Rey didn't desecrate anyone, he did not do a bad thing. Orton did. Sure Rey could have walked off for Orton doing it, but where would that put Rey? Out of a job and it would not punish Orton in any way. Rey just didn't do anything to try and protest this because he knew he can just get fired and he just went on being as respectful as he can and rey was respectful.

ok, calm. calm. ok.

varmint, you are without a doubt the biggest DICKHEAD to ever post here. i think you deserve some sort of an award for your stupidity. at first, i thought, "maybe this guy is John Cena". but now i am wondering if you are in fact Vince McMahon.

More personal insults? Real mature there kid. And hey saying that I could be Vince McMahon, the most succesful businessman in wrestling, the promoter that dominated the business and destroyed his competion and is now running the ONLY wrestling show on prime time in the U.S is a compliment so thanks.

You know your trying to say everyone likes cena but 90% of the people here don't

Well people on websites like this are all part of the internet clique that think it's cool to go against things WWE does. The fact is, Cena is one of the best new stars in the WWE in a long time and no amount of "dislike" is going to change that. He is the future !!!

Anything to keep from accepting reality, right?

Yeah I guess that's the way you think

[Xero]

Yeah they aren't real wrestling fans. They watch DVDs? Right, so they moved on to the "cooler" new thing to the "cooler" new feds. They were never real fans of the WWE. The problem is not the product. The product is at it's best right now. Look at the quality of wrestlers now and in the stone cold era. In the stone cold era we had guys like mideon on and now everyone is a quality wrestler and we don't have crappy brawlers like Mideon anymore and if we do, they are not on T.V often.

And as far as a psychiatric institution, maybe you need to join your patients because YOU are the one resorting to personal insults.
So, what you're saying is that you're ONLY a real wrestling fan if you watch the WWE? What the fuck are you on? Seriously, that just proves that you've been brainwashed by the WWE. I'll be the first to admit that I've been a WWE mark since 1997, but Jesus Christ that's ridiculous.

Also, "crappy" wrestlers in the Attitude era?

Talking 98-2001 here...
Austin
Jericho
Triple H
Rock
Benoit
Jericho
Angle
Edge
Christian
Ken Shamrock
Owen Hart
Mick Foley

And that's only the upper-card!

lol !!! yes personal insults and a red font is going to make your point more correct. Buy a keyboard with caps locks first and GROW UP KID. Rey is not as guilty as Orton is. Orton chose to say a line that was WRONG. Rey never said such a line.

Guess what? Rey is at fault here as well. Why wouldn't Rey say no to this storyline? What is a good reason for Rey to stand around and be in an angle where his best friend, who recently passed away, is bashed to no end?

Forget the logic of the storyline, and let's talk about morals. Would you stand around if you knew someone was going to make fun of your dead best friend? Would you say "okay, yeah, it's fine if you say he went to hell and that he was worthless as long as I get to punch you in the face"? Because, if you would, you are a piece of shit.

[Xero]

You know, just saying things that make you think you look like you know what you're talking about doesn't mean we don't know you're full of shit.

You're just pulling shit out of your ass now.

[¡Coñaso!]

is is because of baldie. This small group began showing during the angle/cena feud because Angle has not been playing an effective heel character. Thus, the "cool" guys began to boo Cena and it caught on so now everyone associates "Cena" with doing the wrong reaction. This is why it only happens when it involves John Cena. They know everyone has associated this with him and it would be harder to star the chant against someone else.

Are you aware that crowd changes? They do wrestle in different arenas. Your aware of that right?
You know, "Welcome to Raw, where we're live from Chicago, Illinoise" and then next week, you hear, "Welcome to Raw, where we're live from Albequerqui, New Mexico".
Its DIFFERENT! Different people, different parts of the country, different!

Mark Henry deserves a chance. Look at him. He is huge and huge guys work as heels. Besides being Huge Mark Henry also has awesome mic skills, a lot of charisma and he is also fast for a huge guy in the ring. He has a lot of moves and in general, he works the BIG MAN MATCH very well.

He doesn't deserve a chance. He's been given a chance ever since he came here in what? '96? Sure he's big but that makes him a heel? Alright pal, now you've crossed the line, now your stereotyping and your racist. Because he's black he's a a big bad heel!!?
He has no mic skills (which would explain Melina), He has no charisma (which would explain Melina) He is not fast for his size, and his moves suck, his matches are boring.
Are you on drugs?

And Cena is being targeted for Women and Kids along with the males because wwe EXPANDED his demographic.

No he's not! Look for the definition of "targeted" he's not being TARGETED for that. THey don't need to target him for that. I mean if you like him that's okay (well not really, pussy),
But he's not being targeted for you. It's like a boy that has a barbie, if he has one, cool, Matel ahs amde thier money, but its not for him.

[Arnold HamNegger]

This is because of baldie. This small group began showing during the angle/cena feud because Angle has not been playing an effective heel character. Thus, the "cool" guys began to boo Cena and it caught on so now everyone associates "Cena" with doing the wrong reaction. This is why it only happens when it involves John Cena. They know everyone has associated this with him and it would be harder to star the chant against someone else.

Is this when you started watching wrestling? Because the "boo's" started LONG before the Angle feud. Go and watch the Jericho feud for example. This has been brewing for a long time. And go fuck yourself with a weed wacker for blaming Angle.


In a small manner they do. Of course in a small way you have to listen to the fans, but you can't go 100% by them. It will not be smart for business. Fans don't know the business. They do not understand the business. They will be wanting stuff that is NOT GOOD for the business because it looks "cool". So you can listen to them to a small extent, but to base your business around them would be foolish.

What the fans like/dislike determines the success of a wrestling company...period!

FANS buy the products, buy the tickets, buy the merchandise, etc. Without that, there is NO BUSINESS. "Business decisions" (marketing, budget cuts, etc.) have to be done within the company, but the decision of who is over or not over is TOTALLY decided by the fans. That is what generates ANY BUSINESS period. Therefor, if you don't listen to the fans and alter your "business" according to what they want, you will lose money because they won't buy your product. And as many have posted, this is the trend because WWE is declining in the ratings and not making as much money as they once did. Maybe you are their advisor and have been listening to your theories...that would explain everything.



Yeah they aren't real wrestling fans. They watch DVDs? Right, so they moved on to the "cooler" new thing to the "cooler" new feds. They were never real fans of the WWE. The problem is not the product. The product is at it's best right now. Look at the quality of wrestlers now and in the stone cold era. In the stone cold era we had guys like mideon on and now everyone is a quality wrestler and we don't have crappy brawlers like Mideon anymore and if we do, they are not on T.V often.

Someone already touched on this you brainwashed WWE mark. There is wrestling life outside of WWE. You obviously were not watching wrestling back in the "Monday Night War" era, because that is when (arguably)wrestling was at an all time high as far as product is concerned. (if you think I'm basing this on personal opinion, you are wrong. This has been stated in numerous interviews and documentaries by people in the industry.)

Competion = a better product. No competion = WWE current crap.
This is obvious to everyone but you apparently.

And as far as a psychiatric institution, maybe you need to join your patients because YOU are the one resorting to personal insults.

Keep whining about the insults and keep ignoring anything relavent. That seems to work best for you in "Happy Land."

[Vermaat]

So, what you're saying is that you're ONLY a real wrestling fan if you watch the WWE? What the fuck are you on? Seriously, that just proves that you've been brainwashed by the WWE. I'll be the first to admit that I've been a WWE mark since 1997, but Jesus Christ that's ridiculous.


Pretty much, how can you be a fan of wrestling if you don't want a best promotion? WWE is where most of the best wrestlers are. Cena, Batista, Benjamin, Mysterio, Angle etc etc. You can't be a genuine wrestling fan and not watch the best.

For an example, you can't say that you're a car fan and refuse to buy cars from the best companies like GM and Ford and Toyota and drive a Yougo.

Also, "crappy" wrestlers in the Attitude era?



There were good wrestlers, but overall, there were more bad wrestlers on the roster then today.

1. Rey did not want to be fired.
2. Rey himself did not do anything evil.

Are you aware that crowd changes? They do wrestle in different arenas. Your aware of that right?
You know, "Welcome to Raw, where we're live from Chicago, Illinoise" and then next week, you hear, "Welcome to Raw, where we're live from Albequerqui, New Mexico".
Its DIFFERENT! Different people, different parts of the country, different!


Yes the crowd changes, but on the whole, it's one WHOLE. The fans go and watch at home and catch on. They see it on their T.V and go and do it, in that way all the fans are really one and that is what I meant, I meant the fans as a WHOLE SET UNIT.

He doesn't deserve a chance. He's been given a chance ever since he came here in what? '96? Sure he's big but that makes him a heel? Alright pal, now you've crossed the line, now your stereotyping and your racist. Because he's black he's a a big bad heel!!?
He has no mic skills (which would explain Melina), He has no charisma (which would explain Melina) He is not fast for his size, and his moves suck, his matches are boring.
Are you on drugs?


A lot of time has been wasted with Mark Henry like when they sent him to OVW and like when they had that stupid storyline with Mae Young. WWE wasted a lot of time with him and that is why he seems bad to you when really he is great. And I NEVER said that he is a good heel because he is black. The only racist here is you because that association came in YOUR head and you are the one that just started talking about it when I didn't so maybe you should check yourself next time!

The only thing I said was that he was a good heel because is big. That is true. Big guys make good heels because it's easier to see a big guy as a big monster then a small guy because big guys have credibility just for being big and make better heels. And I do think he is pretty fast and innovative. Did you see the way he reversed Mysterio's pin into his finisher? That's INNOVATIVE. How about his SPLASH recently on the Undertaker. That's innovative, I haven't seen a big guy do something like that. He has tons of charisma, he is great on the microphone, I don't see how you can not see that. Melina was added to add heat to Batista being out.

And as far as being targeted, nice way to hide a personal insult there but it didn't work. It's funny how you people need to resort to personal insults to support your points but guess hat all it really shows is your maturity level or lack of thereforth. Of course Cena is being targeted for "me" as a male because rap music is most popular with males (and people in general today) and it is a FUNDAMENTAL part of culture, so yeah that targers him to me and you and it is for all.

[Vermaat]

Is this when you started watching wrestling? Because the "boo's" started LONG before the Angle feud. Go and watch the Jericho feud for example. This has been brewing for a long time. And go fuck yourself with a weed wacker for blaming Angle.




What the fans like/dislike determines the success of a wrestling company...period!

FANS buy the products, buy the tickets, buy the merchandise, etc. Without that, there is NO BUSINESS. "Business decisions" (marketing, budget cuts, etc.) have to be done within the company, but the decision of who is over or not over is TOTALLY decided by the fans. That is what generates ANY BUSINESS period. Therefor, if you don't listen to the fans and alter your "business" according to what they want, you will lose money because they won't buy your product. And as many have posted, this is the trend because WWE is declining in the ratings and not making as much money as they once did. Maybe you are their advisor and have been listening to your theories...that would explain everything.





Someone already touched on this you brainwashed WWE mark. There is wrestling life outside of WWE. You obviously were not watching wrestling back in the "Monday Night War" era, because that is when (arguably)wrestling was at an all time high as far as product is concerned. (if you think I'm basing this on personal opinion, you are wrong. This has been stated in numerous interviews and documentaries by people in the industry.)

Competion = a better product. No competion = WWE current crap.
This is obvious to everyone but you apparently.



Keep whining about the insults and keep ignoring anything relavent. That seems to work best for you in "Happy Land."

1. Jericho was not really playing a proper heel and needed Eric Bischoff to get over, but even then, the boos were not really noticeable.

2. Fans do buy the product, but that doesn't mean that you have to do what they want. Fans don't know what they want, they want all sort of ridiculous things that would be stupid for the WWE to do. Fans want Stone Cold, but Stone Cold has been hard to work as of late and might want too much money and refuse to job to anyone. Does that mean WWE needs to bring Stone Cold because the fans want it? Like I said, you can cater to an extent, but sometimes fans want something that is not wise for the business. I already explained why WWE is not making as much money and it has nothing with listening less to the fans, as a matter of fact, WWE listens more to the fans, because if you look at the attitude era there were so many bad wrestlers and now the roster is mostly at the best of the best in the wrestling world.

Even if WWE is making less money that just means the market shrunk, nothing they can do if people decided to move on to something "cooler", it's just that the market of TRUE wrestling fans that want to watch wrestling has shrunk. WWE is still the most dominant and sucesful qwrestling company of all time.

3. I watched in the monday night war era and it was just as entertaining as it is today. Back then it was more hardcore wrestling and less technical wrestling then today, so it was different, but I can't say it was better then it is today. It is just a DIFFERENT FLAVOR !!!

Competition is good, but WWE still does fine and it is not the WWE's fault that the other companies like TNA are so crappy that they can't be proper competition. Any business looks to have a complete hand on the market, look at Microsoft. Competition is good for the consumer but bad for the business.

4. I am not whining, I'm just saying that personal insults show people's maturity level. Mature people will not resort to personal insults and the only thing that it shows when you do is that you have not graduated from the 7th grade yet.

[Goulet]

Nobody will take you seriously when you think Mark Henry is anything more than a fat sack of shit who is only getting these opportunities because Vince McMahon fucked up and signed him to a 10 year contract and he doesn't want to waste his money on having to buy Henry out... Henry will be gone shortly after WM when his contract expires... oh... and please kill yourself now... thank you :wave:

[Goulet]

1. Jericho was not really playing a proper heel and needed Eric Bischoff to get over, but even then, the boos were not really noticeable. You are a retard. Chris Jericho needs NOBODY else to get over

2. Fans do buy the product, but that doesn't mean that you have to do what they want. Fans don't know what they want, they want all sort of ridiculous things that would be stupid for the WWE to do. Fans want Stone Cold, but Stone Cold has been hard to work as of late and might want too much money and refuse to job to anyone. Does that mean WWE needs to bring Stone Cold because the fans want it? Like I said, you can cater to an extent, but sometimes fans want something that is not wise for the business. I already explained why WWE is not making as much money and it has nothing with listening less to the fans, as a matter of fact, WWE listens more to the fans, because if you look at the attitude era there were so many bad wrestlers and now the roster is mostly at the best of the best in the wrestling world. Even if WWE is making less money that just means the market shrunk, nothing they can do if people decided to move on to something "cooler", it's just that the market of TRUE wrestling fans that want to watch wrestling has shrunk. WWE is still the most dominant and sucesful qwrestling company of all time.. When you have the mindset that you know what the fans want better than they do then you become WCW in 2000, people didn't move on to something "cooler" they moved on to something less crappy. It's not cause wrestling wasn't "cool" anymore, it's because WWE isn't nearly as entertaining as it used to be!

3. I watched in the monday night war era and it was just as entertaining as it is today. Back then it was more hardcore wrestling and less technical wrestling then today, so it was different, but I can't say it was better then it is today. It is just a DIFFERENT FLAVOR !!!

Competition is good, but WWE still does fine and it is not the WWE's fault that the other companies like TNA are so crappy that they can't be proper competition. Any business looks to have a complete hand on the market, look at Microsoft. Competition is good for the consumer but bad for the business. The flavor back then Chocolate, the flavor now Shit, if you prefer Shit to Chocolate that's your choice

4. I am not whining, I'm just saying that personal insults show people's maturity level. Mature people will not resort to personal insults and the only thing that it shows when you do is that you have not graduated from the 7th grade yet.
You are insulting me personally with your lack of intelligence and logic

[¡Coñaso!]

1. Jericho was not really playing a proper heel and needed Eric Bischoff to get over, but even then, the boos were not really noticeable.

I'm sorry but Chris Jericho does not need ANYBODY to get over.
It's Chris FUCKING Jericho. Not Mark Henry.
Mark Henry is useless, and your argument that he had shitty storylines and gimmicks well... that's true for EVERYBODY.
There was a point in time where Test was the shit! He had a nice story going with Triple H.
Then Test went on to do nothing but hang out with Albert...
Don't make it sound like Mark Henry is unfairly being treated.

And to consider John Cena a rapper is just wrong on every level.

[Xero]

1. Rey did not want to be fired.
2. Rey himself did not do anything evil.
Answer my question. Would you stand around and let someone bash your dead best friend? Rey is an asshole for going along with it, whether it meant being fired or not.

You know, you really amaze me. No one, and I mean NO ONE could be as stupid as you. If I had to guess, you were someone from here who LC and/or Funky don't want to give away. If I had to say, I'd have to say Heyman.

[Goulet]

You must spread some BAD Reputation around before giving it to Vermaat again.

[¡Coñaso!]

Yes the crowd changes, but on the whole, it's one WHOLE. The fans go and watch at home and catch on. They see it on their T.V and go and do it, in that way all the fans are really one and that is what I meant, I meant the fans as a WHOLE SET UNIT.

Actually this doesn't really make sense because when Ric Flair goes to "Flair Country" he gets cheered like nobody's business. Everywhere else? booed.
Bret Hart in Canada? God.
So if you wanna consider it a "whole unit" then your disregarding the personal and unique aspect of the crowd.
The crowd is different. That's it. It's that simple.
Last year Christian was both. He would cheered in places like NYC and Florida, but get booed in Texas or Alabama or something. Some crowds cheered him some booed him. It was kinda wierd...

[The One]

Competition is good, but WWE still does fine and it is not the WWE's fault that the other companies like TNA are so crappy that they can't be proper competition. Any business looks to have a complete hand on the market, look at Microsoft. Competition is good for the consumer but bad for the business.

TNA is so crappy...but if John Cena doesn't retain and Mark Henry doesn't win at WrestleMania (which by the way NEITHER will happen) then TNA will take over WWE?

Vermaat, you have made a lot of bitching noises about a lot of things. Being personally attacked and what not. Well sir it is kind of hard to attack your statements when they simply are not true. You talk about how everyone loves and cheers for John Cena and he is the most over person...blah blah blah...and yet when John Cena makes radio appearences and is asked about his mixed reaction he talks about how he DOES get a lot of boos. But even John Cena doesn't know what kinf of reaction he gets...is that right?

You made the same argument time after time, so and so isn't play a good enough heel to counter this super face John Cena. Does it not seem slightly more possible that Triple H, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, and Edge DO play a perfectly good heel (as they get Boos when facing ANYONE else) and maybe just MAYBE it's John Cena...or no, it was just a bad years for Cena wasn't it.

Now listen to the words I am saying, I personally think John Cena isn't entertaining (always thought he was boring...including his time as Prototype)...but I even I can say he has talent and certainly has the ability to connect with the fans. I don't place the blame on John Cena, I place it on WWE. They took this guy who was getting over being edgy and a heel and made him bland and a face. Then they stacked the deck against him every single week, and every single week he walked out on top. The Rock said it best in an interview a few years back, you can't book someone to be Superman...you have to be human to be relatable. Show John Cena in handicap matches...but have him lose. Beat the shit out of him and he gets sympathy reaction...or at least thats the way it would have been unfortunatly WWE has shoved this shit down our throats for so long most people don't even want to give Cena another chance.

Now on a personal note; you are one of the WORST debators I have ever seen. Hell a few years ago I had an entire thread devoted to people taking shots at Billy Gunn...BILLY FUCKING GUNN...you know that guy that nearly every smart hates, and I am not a strong debator. But when I argued I at least stuck with facts. You make shit up and pass it off as realitiy.

And now I have to ask the question I ask all trools and tools; why do you come back here? Why do you continue to interact with people who don't like you? This is the internet! Millions and millions of people are on the internet right now. Surly you can find someone who doesn't hate you to talk with. Hell if you like I will personally make you a "John Cena is Great" forum where you and some John Cena fans can sit around and talk about how great he is, how great of a rapper, how many cheers he gets...blah blah blah. Really...do you have an answer as to why you continue to interact with people who want NOTHING to do with you?

[Kane Knight]

This is because of baldie. This small group began showing during the angle/cena feud because Angle has not been playing an effective heel character. Thus, the "cool" guys began to boo Cena and it caught on so now everyone associates "Cena" with doing the wrong reaction. This is why it only happens when it involves John Cena. They know everyone has associated this with him and it would be harder to star the chant against someone else.

Do you actually buy this shit?

Yes, because a lot of the FAKE FANS left because they weren't true fans. WWE is simply restructuring to their new fanbase.

Stop stepping away from your argument. The "true fans" bullshit is beside the point. You aregued the success and dominance of WWE, and you cannot ignore the fact that revenue is down, that they are drawing significantly smaller ratings than they were, that they can't fill the same number of venues as before. True fans or not, you admitted that, by measures of success, WWE are slipping.

Their "new fan base" is smaller. You admit that, and since that's the marker of success (ratings, cash, buyrates), you contradict your original claims.

Blame fake fans. Your statement is still false. To quote a Nazi horse, QED.

Yes, there are still some bad wrestlers on the roster, but a lot have been cut. WWE makes mistakes, sometimes they sign bad wrestlers, but they quickly get rid of them. For example look at The heart throbs and the dicks. They were crap, that's why WWE fired them.

If the only wrestlers who are cut are bad ones, why are people like Spanky and Polumbo rehired? In other words, you assert they released people because they were bad wrestlers. Why then go and hire bad wrestlers again?

WWE realized they have no potential so they fired them. They keep some bad wrestlers like Tomko because they know they have potential.

Caught in your own web of conspiracy and lies.

Of course the wrestlers aren't gonna say that they got lazy, they will blame bad vince for their own BAD ATTITUDES !!!

Again, you try and dodge the argument. They're not rumours, because they've been stated by the wrestlers. Whether or not your retarded brain thinks they're true, they're still not rumours. A rumour is something unsubstantiated. When the people involved comment on it, you can no longer hide behind "it's only rumours."

Honestly, why would Vince continue to keep on lazy workers though? I want to hear this conspiracy theory. Okay, so say they're lazy and nobody told them to stop flying, or in the case of folks like Helms, stop using his finisher. You're saying that Vince is okay with that, that he's fine with his workers being lazy, not doing the moves they're famous for, and disappointing the fans with "lazy" matches?

Your argument would require that the entire management team be a group of idiots anyway, and it contradicts your notion that they fire the bad wrestlers, since they keep hiring back these lazy bastards.

It still gets very good ratings.

Beside the point. When ratings are steadily going down, you'd have to be stupid to assume that paying more money for it is a good idea, especially when the desire for wrestling was in an apparent decline.

Instead, WWE took a CUT to get on USA. And yes, ratings are more stable now

It works because it is what happened. Wrestling is a weird world, odd things happen.

You have no way to back this statement up.

And yes. Weird things happen in wrestling. They're called storylines and matches. The audience is not some elaborate soap opera complete unto itself.

Yes ratings are a little down. That doesn't mean my argument is flawed, WWE is still a very sucesful company and until there is a competitor, WWE is leading a very good business, because FACE IT, they destroyed the competion and are not allowing anyone to compete.

Ratings went from 6-8 down to 3-4.

If you think this is a little down, you either have no grasp of mathematics or are legitimately retarded.

They're not leading a good business. FACE IT. ECW was destroyed by Heyman, and WCW was destroyed by the owners as well. Hell, the former is even brought up right on at least one of WWE's ECW DVDs. Come on, are you going to call WWE liars?

Rey didn't desecrate anyone, he did not do a bad thing. Orton did.

It's funny you say this right after you say you know wrestling is scripted.

Rey agreed to a storyline which totally drags Eddie through the mud, one in which not only does Orton attack him, but in which his character fails to defend his honor. Rey knew all this, and went along with it for the paycheck. He seriously deserves to burn in Hell for letting this shit go on.

Well people on websites like this are all part of the internet clique that think it's cool to go against things WWE does. The fact is, Cena is one of the best new stars in the WWE in a long time and no amount of "dislike" is going to change that. He is the future !!!

It's funny, because all the evidence flies right in the face of your claims.

[Kane Knight]

Answer my question. Would you stand around and let someone bash your dead best friend? Rey is an asshole for going along with it, whether it meant being fired or not.

You know, you really amaze me. No one, and I mean NO ONE could be as stupid as you. If I had to guess, you were someone from here who LC and/or Funky don't want to give away. If I had to say, I'd have to say Heyman.


This isn't Heyman's style.

I've got to say that much. If it's him, my hat goes off to him for creating something above and beyond his normal, but seriously. This so doesn't reek of him.

In terms of whether or not he'd let someone bash his best friend...

...I have no respect for someone who would not only DO that, but sign on to play a part in it. It's one thing to tolerate someone berating your dead friend, it's another entirely to tolerate it on a national scale, and then on another level entirely to stand up and sign on.

Especially if you're Mysterio. Mysterio wouldn't be fired for this. He's got too much star power to risk going to TNA. Say what you want about the quality of TNA, but this is one guy who could still draw the attention of people if there was even a CHANCE he could go over there. He's the only Cruiser (Even though he's no longer one) who has job security for certain.

[Kalyx triaD]

I've Heard Enough:

Vermaat, I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume your User CP reveals nothing but negative reps. "Who cares" right? By all means, don't even begin to care. You are the greatest poster I've ever seen, simply because you're saying the Earth is flat, even after a trip around the world.

There were times where I seriously thought you were either Cena himself, Vince himself, or some low level WWE superstar/writer who came across this little forum. Because truth be told, your statements are -GASP- wildly connected to the WWE's current strategy. By now you know a great deal of TPWW do not agree with you; and will you look at that, they also don't agree with how WWE is at this very point.

I'm not gonna agree with you, or disagree. Honestly you've said things that made me :wtf: , and then you say things that make me :yes: . Not the actual comments mind you, but the fact that I imagine a McMahon saying exactly what you've been saying all this time. In a sense, you've given TPWW a face to vent their current frusrations with the WWE. It's alomost perfect in it's poetic execution that someone like you comes along and says exactly what certain guys on the board want to hear, if anything but to justify their willingness to flame a 'road less traveled' newbie. What are the chances that you come along in a place like this? Tell me!!!

To that end, I must say it doesn't even matter fussing over this bullshit.

WWE Superstars are characters in a TV show. Eddie's real life death has been 'written' into the storylines. It's fucked up; get over it. It was obviously brought to his family's attention before they went with it. If Eddie's family are okay, who the hell are we? We don't have to like it, but some of you are taking it much too personally. And really, you're expecting too much out of a company like the WWE. Don't forget who you're getting mad at.

Mark Henry, to me, doesn't look right in top card status. I don't mind the him being around, but I like my main events to matter. I don't even watch SD! until the final 30 minutes these days; and for what now - Mark Henry?!? Kiss my ass. He doesn't out and out suck, but he ain't no main-eventer either.

Rey Mysterio is NOT the Rey Mysterio Jr. I used to watch. I remember when WCW had nothing better to do but rotate Rey/Juvi/Kidman week after week. And I didn't give a damn, they were the shit back then. You cannot, I repeat cannot compare WCW cruiser wrestling with the WWE's cruiser wrestling. Which isn't cruiser at all. Ask anyone here the difference between ECW RVD and WWE RVD; shit, ask RVD himself. He'd probably Van-Terminate you for reminding him.

WWE fanbase was wider during the Attitude era (98-02 especially). Everybody knew the Rock, Stone Cold, Kurt Angle, even Rikishi. My mother watched for few weeks. It's funny that when they intend to get new fan bases now they fail humorously. Because they aren't as popular in a pop cultural sense as before. In the grand scheme of things, nobody watches the WWE anymore. It's not cool. It's like Power Rangers. It's still going on right now, it isn't that much different from past formulas. But after Might Morphin'; who really watches but fans these days?

Calling Vermaat a racist was stupid. Trying to put that on him is overkill, has his comments are all you need to fuel your arguements.

[¡Coñaso!]

I've Heard Enough:
Calling Vermaat a racist was stupid. Trying to put that on him is overkill, has his comments are all you need to fuel your arguements.

It was a joke... You know... funny, ha-ha, type of thing.
An exaggeration based on the stereotype of all big guys being good heels.

[Kalyx triaD]

It was a joke... You know... funny, ha-ha, type of thing.
An exaggeration based on the stereotype of all big guys being good heels.

:|

[¡Coñaso!]

Hmm, not funny, huh?
Well forget it then...

[Vermaat]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nobody will take you seriously when you think Mark Henry is anything more than a fat sack of shit who is only getting these opportunities because Vince McMahon fucked up and signed him to a 10 year contract and he doesn't want to waste his money on having to buy Henry out... Henry will be gone shortly after WM when his contract expires... oh... and please kill yourself now...

Mark Henry got unfair treatment in the WWE with crappy storylines. Any other wrestler with the same treatment would be viewed like Mark Henry.

You are a retard. Chris Jericho needs NOBODY else to get over

as a face. As a HEEL against Cena he needed something extra and Bischoff provided that.

When you have the mindset that you know what the fans want better than they do then you become WCW in 2000, people didn't move on to something "cooler" they moved on to something less crappy. It's not cause wrestling wasn't "cool" anymore, it's because WWE isn't nearly as entertaining as it used to be!


WCW went out of business because WWE was the better company. WCW could not handle the competion because all of their top stars were OLD and they were listening to the fans too much, like they kept nWo around because the fans cheered it. People did move on to something cooler, I know ppl from school who used to watch WWE in the stone cold era but don't now because they think it's for kids and stupid and are embarassed to admit it. These are the FAKE FANS that I am talking about that watch something "cooler".

The flavor back then Chocolate, the flavor now Shit, if you prefer Shit to Chocolate that's your choice


Mark Henry's gimmick back then was the worst thing to happen to his career. It made him look like an idiot and didn't fit him.

And to consider John Cena a rapper is just wrong on every level.

Let's look at the definition of rapper.

" one that raps or is used for rapping : as a : a door knocker b : a performer of rap music "

Well John Cena obviously is not a door knocker, but he is a performer of rap music. He has had concerts. He has a CD out. He is a rapper and that is a fact that you can not argue with. Whenever he is a good or bad rapper is arguable, but he is a rapper and a pretty good one imo

Answer my question. Would you stand around and let someone bash your dead best friend? Rey is an asshole for going along with it, whether it meant being fired or not.

You know, you really amaze me. No one, and I mean NO ONE could be as stupid as you. If I had to guess, you were someone from here who LC and/or Funky don't want to give away. If I had to say, I'd have to say Heyman.

No I wouldn't, but I don't think Rey is an asshole. Rey realized Orton was simply doing it for the storyline and because he can't get heat. I think Rey forgave him and I think that is acceptable if Rey choose to forgive him in this situation.

It's funny how you guys think I am someone else because you can't believe that someone will not succumb to your peer pressure and agree with everything you say to try and fit in and be "cool". I don't do that, I only look at facts. This shows how insecure you are about your opinions.

Actually this doesn't really make sense because when Ric Flair goes to "Flair Country" he gets cheered like nobody's business. Everywhere else? booed.
Bret Hart in Canada? God.
So if you wanna consider it a "whole unit" then your disregarding the personal and unique aspect of the crowd.
The crowd is different. That's it. It's that simple.
Last year Christian was both. He would cheered in places like NYC and Florida, but get booed in Texas or Alabama or something. Some crowds cheered him some booed him. It was kinda wierd...

Of course a person get's cheered in their hometown, but that's a famous exception to the rule. Overall however, the fans go as a "whole unit".

TNA is so crappy...but if John Cena doesn't retain and Mark Henry doesn't win at WrestleMania (which by the way NEITHER will happen) then TNA will take over WWE?



I didn't say that, I said that if WWE makes these mistakes they will START to fall. Which is true. They won't fall right off, but they will start.

John Cena makes radio appearences and is asked about his mixed reaction he talks about how he DOES get a lot of boos. But even John Cena doesn't know what kinf of reaction he gets...is that right?


I did say he gets some boos, but it is a mixed reaction. He also gets a lot of cheers. He acknowledges the booing because it is abnormal.

Show John Cena in handicap matches...but have him lose. Beat the shit out of him and he gets sympathy reaction...or at least thats the way it would have been unfortunatly WWE has shoved this shit down our throats for so long most people don't even want to give Cena another chance.


That would make him a jobber. WWE did the smart thing like what WCW did a while ago by having John Cena be unbeatable. Well, actually they did it better because he was not completely unbeatable, he did get knocked down hard before coming back. It is a trend that works for the good guys, fans like to see the good guy get beat and they like the safety of knowing that he will win. If he loses, they pull out the safety of knowing he will win and fans leave in DISSAPOINTMENT. That's what they did with Edge, that was a major reason why more fans started booing Cena.

You make shit up and pass it off as realitiy.

And now I have to ask the question I ask all trools and tools; why do you come back here? Why do you continue to interact with people who don't like you? This is the internet! Millions and millions of people are on the internet right now. Surly you can find someone who doesn't hate you to talk with. Hell if you like I will personally make you a "John Cena is Great" forum where you and some John Cena fans can sit around and talk about how great he is, how great of a rapper, how many cheers he gets...blah blah blah. Really...do you have an answer as to why you continue to interact with people who want NOTHING to do with you?

Everything I've said has been fact. What you have been saying is biased by your dislike of John Cena. I come here because I am not afrad to speak my mind, and I am not afraud to defend the wrestlers and the company that I feel to be the best in this industry. I know there is not much of a chance of enlightening your biased minds, but as a John Cena fan it is the least I can do. It annoys me to see all the lies told about Cena here.

Stop stepping away from your argument. The "true fans" bullshit is beside the point. You aregued the success and dominance of WWE, and you cannot ignore the fact that revenue is down, that they are drawing significantly smaller ratings than they were, that they can't fill the same number of venues as before. True fans or not, you admitted that, by measures of success, WWE are slipping.

Their "new fan base" is smaller. You admit that, and since that's the marker of success (ratings, cash, buyrates), you contradict your original claims.

Blame fake fans. Your statement is still false. To quote a Nazi horse, QED.


I'm not stepping away from my argument. WWE is succesful and dominant. The degree to which they are succesful and dominant is irrelevant as long as they ARE succesfull and dominant. And this they are because they are the only wrestling company that is on primetime.

If WWE is not as succesful and dominant as they are then explain why no other company has popped up and been able to challenge them? Surely if they are loosing so many fans and so much money, someone would be able to capitalize on it?

The marker of sucess firs and foremost is how much of the market you control and WWE controls most of it. Then, it is your profit and WWE still makes a LOT. Just because they slipped a little does not mean they are no longer dominant.

If the only wrestlers who are cut are bad ones, why are people like Spanky and Polumbo rehired? In other words, you assert they released people because they were bad wrestlers. Why then go and hire bad wrestlers again?


They were hired back because they improved. They knew they were fired because they were crap and they worked hard to improve.

Caught in your own web of conspiracy and lies.


No lies here, WWE keeps some wrestlers who have potential and fire those who do not.

Again, you try and dodge the argument. They're not rumours, because they've been stated by the wrestlers. Whether or not your retarded brain thinks they're true, they're still not rumours. A rumour is something unsubstantiated. When the people involved comment on it, you can no longer hide behind "it's only rumours."

Honestly, why would Vince continue to keep on lazy workers though? I want to hear this conspiracy theory. Okay, so say they're lazy and nobody told them to stop flying, or in the case of folks like Helms, stop using his finisher. You're saying that Vince is okay with that, that he's fine with his workers being lazy, not doing the moves they're famous for, and disappointing the fans with "lazy" matches?

Your argument would require that the entire management team be a group of idiots anyway, and it contradicts your notion that they fire the bad wrestlers, since they keep hiring back these lazy bastards.


Oh and wrestlers can't start rumors? Guess what, they can. They can also start lies which they do. Vince keeps the lazy workers because they have potential and he hopes that they can come up with some better moves that are safe like what Rey did. They hire them back once they improve.

Beside the point. When ratings are steadily going down, you'd have to be stupid to assume that paying more money for it is a good idea, especially when the desire for wrestling was in an apparent decline.

Instead, WWE took a CUT to get on USA. And yes, ratings are more stable now


Guess what desire for wrestling is not dependant on the WWE, it's just what the people and the culture feels like. Paying more money for the WWE is a smart idea because it is the WWE, they always have the POTENTIAL to be big so it makes sense to keep them on. USA gained from this, Spike lost out.

And yes. Weird things happen in wrestling. They're called storylines and matches. The audience is not some elaborate soap opera complete unto itself.


Weird events do happen with the audience as well. Who knows how they feel one day, they may make a strange reaction due to some pop influence.

Ratings went from 6-8 down to 3-4.

If you think this is a little down, you either have no grasp of mathematics or are legitimately retarded.

They're not leading a good business. FACE IT. ECW was destroyed by Heyman, and WCW was destroyed by the owners as well. Hell, the former is even brought up right on at least one of WWE's ECW DVDs. Come on, are you going to call WWE liars?


From what period to what period? Like I said, fake fans during the attitude era stopped thinking WWE is cool and moved to a new fad. This explains this drop in the rating and it has nothing to do with the WWE, it's just that these fans just aren't real fans of wrestling. Rating were lower then that in the Hogan era because the same core of fans was watching back then. too.

They are making GOOD MONEY, DOMINATING the wrestling market. Are the name synonymous with wrestling. FACE IT. That is GOOD BUSINESS.

And as far as what WWE said on the DVD's, I did not watch them, but WCW was not destroyed by it's owner, it was destroyed by the WWE. They could not handle the competition. As far as Heyman, he was mostly destroyed by the WWE, but he himself did play a part by leading poor business and if WWE did mention that in the DVD as the main reason, I guess they were just being nice and decided not to gloat over how badley they destroyed these two companies.

It's funny you say this right after you say you know wrestling is scripted.

Rey agreed to a storyline which totally drags Eddie through the mud, one in which not only does Orton attack him, but in which his character fails to defend his honor. Rey knew all this, and went along with it for the paycheck. He seriously deserves to burn in Hell for letting this shit go on.


I'm pretty sure Rey did not know every specific of this storyline. But in the end it will lead to Rey getting the victory, so it's all good.

It's funny, because all the evidence flies right in the face of your claims.

Evidence? All I see is a superstar that is EXCELLENT as a face and as a heel, that has great wrestling skills, has a great body, size, speed and mic skills. A superstar that reaches into other markets with his rapping skill and someone that very obviously is the next Hogan, Rock, Austin.

[¡Coñaso!]

Wow... just wow.
Your just... wow.
That's it. You win.

[Vermaat]

I've Heard Enough:

Vermaat, I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume your User CP reveals nothing but negative reps. "Who cares" right? By all means, don't even begin to care. You are the greatest poster I've ever seen, simply because you're saying the Earth is flat, even after a trip around the world.

There were times where I seriously thought you were either Cena himself, Vince himself, or some low level WWE superstar/writer who came across this little forum. Because truth be told, your statements are -GASP- wildly connected to the WWE's current strategy. By now you know a great deal of TPWW do not agree with you; and will you look at that, they also don't agree with how WWE is at this very point.

I'm not gonna agree with you, or disagree. Honestly you've said things that made me :wtf: , and then you say things that make me :yes: . Not the actual comments mind you, but the fact that I imagine a McMahon saying exactly what you've been saying all this time. In a sense, you've given TPWW a face to vent their current frusrations with the WWE. It's alomost perfect in it's poetic execution that someone like you comes along and says exactly what certain guys on the board want to hear, if anything but to justify their willingness to flame a 'road less traveled' newbie. What are the chances that you come along in a place like this? Tell me!!!

To that end, I must say it doesn't even matter fussing over this bullshit.

WWE Superstars are characters in a TV show. Eddie's real life death has been 'written' into the storylines. It's fucked up; get over it. It was obviously brought to his family's attention before they went with it. If Eddie's family are okay, who the hell are we? We don't have to like it, but some of you are taking it much too personally. And really, you're expecting too much out of a company like the WWE. Don't forget who you're getting mad at.

Mark Henry, to me, doesn't look right in top card status. I don't mind the him being around, but I like my main events to matter. I don't even watch SD! until the final 30 minutes these days; and for what now - Mark Henry?!? Kiss my ass. He doesn't out and out suck, but he ain't no main-eventer either.

Rey Mysterio is NOT the Rey Mysterio Jr. I used to watch. I remember when WCW had nothing better to do but rotate Rey/Juvi/Kidman week after week. And I didn't give a damn, they were the shit back then. You cannot, I repeat cannot compare WCW cruiser wrestling with the WWE's cruiser wrestling. Which isn't cruiser at all. Ask anyone here the difference between ECW RVD and WWE RVD; shit, ask RVD himself. He'd probably Van-Terminate you for reminding him.

WWE fanbase was wider during the Attitude era (98-02 especially). Everybody knew the Rock, Stone Cold, Kurt Angle, even Rikishi. My mother watched for few weeks. It's funny that when they intend to get new fan bases now they fail humorously. Because they aren't as popular in a pop cultural sense as before. In the grand scheme of things, nobody watches the WWE anymore. It's not cool. It's like Power Rangers. It's still going on right now, it isn't that much different from past formulas. But after Might Morphin'; who really watches but fans these days?

Calling Vermaat a racist was stupid. Trying to put that on him is overkill, has his comments are all you need to fuel your arguements.

You make some good points. I like the point about Eddie. I agree it's blown out of proportion and if his family doesn't have a problem with it then who are we to judge? Excellent point that I think was overlooked by the maJority here.

I'm not a WWE employee, I am just a fan like you and others here but a fan who sees things without bias !!!

Mark Henry doesn't look right in the top card and I agree. But this does not mean he can't be in the top card. He needs the right build up. He was screwed too much by the WWE before and he needs some build up and he wil look cool in the main event.

I think a lot of people share my opinions but are too afraid to speak out.

I admit I wasn't watching WCW back then and was only watching the WWF, but if Rey did tone down thats understandable with the time. He has a family and he needs to watch out for his own health and it was a smart move because he is the next CHAMP.

Power Rangers argument is true, after the fad stops only the true fans remain. Same with the wwe.

[Kalyx triaD]

As long as we don't cross paths, I suppose. Vermaat, you're my favorite TPWW heel. Never change. Just keep doing what you're doing. We need more names in this place. Thanks for adding to the coming...

They know...

[Goulet]

WCW went out of business because WWE was the better company. WCW could not handle the competion because all of their top stars were OLD and they were listening to the fans too much, like they kept nWo around because the fans cheered it. People did move on to something cooler, I know ppl from school who used to watch WWE in the stone cold era but don't now because they think it's for kids and stupid and are embarassed to admit it. These are the FAKE FANS that I am talking about that watch something "cooler".

You are SO wrong on SO many levels and yet you still argue this bullshit, this isn't a matter of opinion vs. opinion it's facts Dicksmoke! and here they are

1. All of WCW's stars weren't old... WCW just only pushed the older already established stars

2. They weren't listening to their fans too much... THEY WEREN'T LISTENING AT ALL!!! Were the fans crying out for David Arquette to win the World Title?! Or for Vince Russo to win it?! FUCK YOU ARE IGNORANT!!!

3. The Fans didn't want the nWo back... WCW went back to the nWo because it had worked in the past... which was a common practice in WCW and still is in WWE, just because something worked before doesn't mean it will again. Hence WWE attempting to bring back the nWo in 2002.

4. Again I will state, people who stopped watching after the Attitude era didn't grow out of it! They weren't FAKE fans! The quality of programming WWE was putting out after the Attitude Era ended has dramatically decreased and the ratings and buyrates reflect that. I'll simplify it for you

GOOD PROGRAMMING = MORE FANS = HIGHER RATINGS, BUY RATES AND ATTENDACE

BAD PROGRAMMING = LESS FANS = LOVER RATINGS, BUY RATES AND ATTENDANCE

So in closing, YOU ARE WRONG, go away!

[Goulet]

I think a lot of people share my opinions but are too afraid to speak out.

Oh you are out of your fucking mind... you can't SERIOUSLY belive that!

[Goulet]

As long as we don't cross paths, I suppose. Vermaat, you're my favorite TPWW heel. Never change. Just keep doing what you're doing. We need more names in this place. Thanks for adding to the coming...

They know...

Don't encourage this Moron... how can you be a fucking Heel on a message board? He's a fucking Troll

[Xero]

Everything I've said has been fact. What you have been saying is biased by your dislike of John Cena. I come here because I am not afrad to speak my mind, and I am not afraud to defend the wrestlers and the company that I feel to be the best in this industry. I know there is not much of a chance of enlightening your biased minds, but as a John Cena fan it is the least I can do. It annoys me to see all the lies told about Cena here.

So you being a John Cena fan doesn't make your arguments biased TOWARDS Cena?

It goes both ways you know.

[Goulet]

So you being a John Cena fan doesn't make your arguments biased TOWARDS Cena?

It goes both ways you know.

Don't you know!? He only speaks the truth!
:shifty:

[Goulet]

:lol: Also I wonder how the hell this topic made it to 7 pages without being closed

[Xero]

LOL, I was just going to comment on that.

I must commend him, he actually made up enough lies so that we could write a fairy tale about rotten apples, breaking things, and someone who one little boy thought was the greatest and believed in him even though no one else did.

Sounds like a horribly written parody of the Ugly Duckling.

[Arnold HamNegger]

And as far as what WWE said on the DVD's, I did not watch them, but WCW was not destroyed by it's owner, it was destroyed by the WWE. They could not handle the competition. As far as Heyman, he was mostly destroyed by the WWE, but he himself did play a part by leading poor business and if WWE did mention that in the DVD as the main reason, I guess they were just being nice and decided not to gloat over how badley they destroyed these two companies.


You know, rather than respond to every single stupid thing you've said again, I'm just going to use this one statement by you as an example as to how full of shit you truly are. First off, you admit that you didn't watch the DVD's. BUT in order to justify your bullshit in a previous argument after someone has thrown a hard UNDISPUTABLE fact in your face...you're now going to disagree with what the WWE ACTUALLY SAID and make up your own theory ONCE AGAIN to try and set your feeble mind at ease. In case you're wondering, the key words in your argument are "I did not watch them" and " I guess". This AUTOMATICALLY eliminates your argument from being a fact! This is what you have been doing the entire thread. Now you've stooped to the level of being "psychic" and knowing what WWE "really" meant in their statement. Now not only are you twisting reality, you're twisting facts provided by your precious WWE...all in an effort to cover your own bullshit. You're caught red handed Vermaat, try to justify that.

[Kalyx triaD]

Don't encourage this Moron... how can you be a fucking Heel on a message board? He's a fucking Troll

Don't you ever in your life undermind me, I don't give a shit who your parents made you believe you are. I'll take your negative rep with a grain of salt equal to that of a 6 year old calling me a dork and let it slide. But under no circumstance have you garnered enough respect from me to even consider saying what you said and expect it to be taken remotely serious. Do you understand me?