MLB 2007-2008 Offseason Thread

[Skippord]

If the Rockies move Ian Stewart to second I will ejaculate

honest to God

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Kaz Matsui signs with the Astros, 3 years, $15 million</font>

[RoXer]

That's a good move for both parties. Especially if he can "handle the pressure".

[VonErichLives]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/thebuzz/

Charlie Walters of St. Paul Pioneer Press claims the Sox are the frontrunners for Santana at the moment. This is the pending offer:

Red Sox get
Johan Santana

Twins get
Jon Lester
Coco Crisp
Jed Lowrie
Justin Masterson

I'm not a huge fan of moving Lowrie or Masterson, but Santana would make it worth it.

I mean, you'd be talking about probably 2 of the top 5 SP in the league on the same team.

One of the best closers in the game, one of the best (based on most of last season) setup guys in the league and a great hitting lineup...

of course, Ortiz needs knee surgery, and manny can be manny.. but still...

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I'm really sick of these so called experts (particularly in the New York media) saying the Mets simply have no shot of getting a good pitcher because they "have no chips".

Carlos Gomez is still among one of the top OF prospects in the league, as is Fernando Martinez (who the Mets are EXTREMELY reluctant to part with, nearly untouchable). Milledge is still only 22 and has shown he can play at the big league level. As for pitching, sure Pelfrey got rocked in the big leagues last year, but he's only gonna be 24 at the start of next season and still throws mid-90's with a sinker that can only improve. Guerra throws mid-90s at age 18.

I've heard that Beane is gonna retort the Mets' offer of Gomez, Guerra, and Mulvey and rather than give back Haren, they will give Blanton. That would kinda suck IMO. Blanton's good and all but he's no ace.</font>

[MVP]

I'm not a huge fan of moving Lowrie or Masterson, but Santana would make it worth it.

I mean, you'd be talking about probably 2 of the top 5 SP in the league on the same team.

Pretty much my thoughts as well. Santana is one of the only players I would give up those 2 prospects for.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Kenny Rogers returns to Detroit on a 1-year deal. No surprises there.</font>

[Dragon]

Apparently the Yankees are close to signing Mark Loretta for some reason. Not really sure why. Betemit seems like a better backup anyway. Really hope it doesn't have to do with Cano at all. Cashman is an idiot if he deals him.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Mets get: C Brian Schneider, OF Ryan Church
Nationals get: OF Lastings Milledge

I'm fucking at a loss for words.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>The Mets asked the A's and O's beforehand if they wanted Milledge, and both clubs said they weren't interested. OK, that's fine...BUT DON'T TRADE HIM WITHIN THE DIVISION FOR 2 FUCKING MEDIOCRE PLAYERS

Now they are gonna be haunted by Milledge for years and they are still going to have to give up Gomez for a pitcher. Fuck Omar Minaya. The ONLY way he can make this work is if he somehow gets Bedard and they wanted Church instead of Milledge...which I highly doubt Angelos is THAT stupid as Church is a 29-year old backup.</font>

[OssMan]

what?

[OssMan]

Castro, Lo Duca, Estrada, Brian Schneider

did they let Lo Duca go or something?

I dont understand this at all, probably Omar Minaya trying to get a thug off the team :roll:

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Lo Duca's gone and Estrada probably won't be offered a contract (making that deal an excuse to get rid of Mota)

It just pisses me off that the Mets are gonna have to lose Gomez AND Milledge now if a trade is made.

But yeah, just like with Lo Duca, willing to bet that Milledge was let go due to attitude reasons</font>

[SammyG]

lol Omar

[ClockShot]

Kenny Rogers signs up with the Tigers again for a 1-year deal.

After a few weeks of silence, Yankees and Jorge Posada finalize their deal. Setting a new bar for Catcher salaries.

About time, Jorge. Had us worried for a bit. All we need now is to hear from Pettitte.

[FakeLaser]

Missed Vito's post.

What the fuck kind of deal is that for the Mets, seriously?

[ClockShot]

Shit. According to reports, the Angels and Marlins were pretty much set to deal Miguel Cabrera like anytime now. However, Marlins uped the price twice before they were ready to deal. They wanna know how many pitchers in return they want. It's been confirmed that Howie Kendrick Jeff Mathis are gonna be going in any deal no matter what.

[Dragon]

Apparently the Yankees are leaning towards offering Hughes in the deal for Santana. I dunno, hopefully Cashman doesn't pull the trigger on that one too quick. I still think the price would come down eventually if the Sox don't offer Ellsbury. I know theres other teams in play and all that but not many teams will afford Johan. And if the Sox don't budge on Ellsbury and the Yanks don't offer Hughes are the Twins gonna just walk away and wait til the trade deadline and get half the amount of prospects? Assuming the Sox and Yanks have the best deals out there right now.

[ClockShot]

Yeah. I hope they don't deal in Hughes as well.

Just read that the Yankees are right now trying plan B. Calling up Billy Beane and asking about Dan Haren.

[Dragon]

Ugh. Just read that Hughes has been offered by the Yanks. I don't really understand it at all. Why they would include him when Boston hasn't offered up Buchholz or Ellsbury is beyond me. I understand he's the best pitcher in baseball but still. It doesn't seem like the Twins have much choice if the offers remain at what they were.

[Loose Cannon]

just read Barry Bonds took a piss. crap, I hope this doesn't mean his coming to the Yankees

[VonErichLives]

Ugh. Just read that Hughes has been offered by the Yanks. I don't really understand it at all. Why they would include him when Boston hasn't offered up Buchholz or Ellsbury is beyond me. I understand he's the best pitcher in baseball but still. It doesn't seem like the Twins have much choice if the offers remain at what they were.

I think the Yanks will pay more for him then the Sox, the difference is I think the Sox have more to deal with...

For the Yanks it's pretty simple, if the Sox get Santana and lock him up 5years, the Yanks will have little chance at a division title for the next 2-3years... I say 2-3, because Tek getting old, Mannys deal coming up, Papi getting older etc... so those will be question marks down the road, but the Sox pitching staff the next 5 years from starter to closer will be set w/ the exception of maybe some long relief or specialists

The sox wont part with Ellsbury, or if they do I'd be shocked.

But, the deal they had on the table last I heard was pretty impressive... Lester, their top Pitching prospect, top SS prospect and coco (great defense, avg bat and NOT a leadoff hitter).

I could see the sox upping the deal...

that being said, the Yanks are more desperate for him then the Sox are... plus, (and I'm asking you NYY guys cause I don't know) if they open the new stadium, and have little chance of a division title for 2-3years will that effect ticket sales?

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I hate to see the Red Sox trade away another homegrown SS, seeing how one they traded away is pretty sick now plus the last one they actually kept for a while wasn't so bad himself

[Evil Vito]

http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_451186.jpg

<font color=goldenrod>Just doesn't look right...

Now that the trade has settled in for a solid 9 hours...I mean, at first I guess I was too harsh. Ryan Church is a solid player...hit more doubles than anyone on the Mets and probably could hit around 20 or so home runs. And Brian Schneider's a damn good defensive catcher.

But Milledge? Is Johnny Estrada really that bad? Surely there must have been a solid defensive catcher in the FA market if that was the concern?

Hell if this deal was to any team other than an NL East one it wouldn't seem as bad...I just can't believe Milledge fell this far off the map in the eyes of other GMs. I was looking forward to him playing a full year in New York and now I bet he'll torch us every time we play Washington.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Bartolo Colon is gonna hit the FA Market

Given their history, I'm almost willing to bet Colon gets a 1-year deal with a performance option or something from the Mets. He'd be a great low-risk, high-reward pickup as a #5 starter...but if Omar picks up Colon and Livan and decides thats enough he'll be shitcanning 2008.</font>

[VonErichLives]

I hate to see the Red Sox trade away another homegrown SS, seeing how one they traded away is pretty sick now plus the last one they actually kept for a while wasn't so bad himself

I'll take Beckett and Lowell over Ramirez...

that and with the sox being pretty above average at most positions, having a journman SS that is a good fielder is fine with me.

That being said, their reporting NYY has added hughes to the deal... be funny if the Red Sox push it to try and make the yankees offer chamberlin then back away and go after Haren and get him for less then Santatna would cost and ok the sox he'd be a #2 or #3 pitcher which I'd be fine with.

I mean...

Beckett
Haren
Dice-K
Schilling
Wakefield or Lester or Buckholtz.. (depending on who'se left after the trade).

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah the general consensus is that whoever loses out on the Santana sweepstakes is gonna get Haren. That's why Beane is waiting to trade until after Santana is traded.

Yankee fans are also pretty pathetic. On their message boards, they went from all wanting Santana to calling him "overrated" after Hughes has been added. Much like how they all called A-Rod "overrated" when he opted out only to rejoice saying "YAY we got the best player in the league back!!!" when he came crawling back for $305 million</font>

[OssMan]

LOL well at least the Nationals will not be full of players that are completely boring to me now, maybe I'll actually have something to root for at a Nats game

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Milledge, 22, reportedly was offered with Aaron Heilman and Phillip Humber to the Orioles in a proposal that was rejected. Including Milledge did not make it more desirable to Baltimore, but one baseball official said, "You put Church or Gomez in place of Milledge in an offer and it might be a more attractive offer."

-----

Church, Heilman, and Humber for Bedard? Where the fuck do I sign?</font>

[FakeLaser]

Yeah that would be a sick deal. Bedard will destroy the NL, wowwww

[Skippord]

Kaz Matsui is dead to me

[OssMan]

uh...where in that did it say it was for bedard? just saying :-\

[Evil Vito]

uh...where in that did it say it was for bedard? just saying :-\

<font color=goldenrod>Just took a clippit out of the article I was reading, it was for Bedard.

Hell...I'd go as far as trading Gomez, Heilman, and two of Pelfrey/Humber/Mulvey to grab Bedard. The Mets have like 3 of the first 35 or so draft picks this year so they can re-stock pitching.</font>

[FakeLaser]

The Minneapolis Star Tribune's Lavelle E. Neal III believes the Yankees are now offering Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Ian Kennedy in return for Johan Santana.

He also says the Twins are no longer interested in a Red Sox package that includes Coco Crisp rather than Jacoby Ellsbury. If both of his beliefs are true, then it would seem as though the a trade between the Twins and Yankees would get done any day now. However, Neal goes on to say that he thinks the Mets are backing down on not offering Jose Reyes and that Santana might prefer the NL to the AL. Color us skeptical about everything presented here.
Hughes AND Kennedy? No. Please no.

Sources told FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal that the Padres and Randy Wolf are close to agreeing to a one-year deal.
Great place for Wolf to pitch.

According to ESPN's Buster Olney, the Cardinals and Brewers are discussing a Scott Rolen trade, but they haven't decided how much money St. Louis will pick up or what players the Cards will get in return.

It appears safe to assume that Chris Capuano would be in the deal. The Brewers shouldn't need to give up much more talent in return for Rolen, assuming that they're willing to pay the majority of the $36 million the third baseman is owed for the next three years. If Rolen is acquired, Ryan Braun would move to left field, leaving Matt LaPorta wondering about his future role with the team
That would be a great deal for both sides.

[Dragon]

Wow, the Twins are just owning the Yankees in these discussions. First they give him an ultimatum that if they don't include Hughes, Santana will go to Boston. Who knows if that was true or not. Now they are pulling Kennedy away too? If that deal goes through the Yankees are the biggest idiots ever. The best deal out there was Lester, Crisp and the other two guys and the Yankees are gonna offer Hughes (which trumps that offer) and then throw in Kennedy? The Yankees are getting played for fools and I'd honestly rather not get Santana if this is the cost. Its not like there is a huge market for Johan, a select few teams can even afford him.

[McLegend]

Hank is hilarious

[ClockShot]

Kaz Matsui is dead to me

I agree. He's fool if he's taking that Astros deal after the run the Rockies just had.

Besides the Yankees and Red Sox in the Santana sweepstakes, Mariners and Dodgers are also slightly involved. The Twins want Clayton Kershaw and Andre Etheir along with either James Loney or Jonathan Broxton from the Dodgers. Mariners only got Adam Jones to offer.

:nono: Insanity must run in Steinbrenner family. I'm really spooked if this goes through now.

[FakeLaser]

The Minneapolis Star Tribune's Lavelle E. Neal III essentially admitted he was guessing when he reported the Yankees were offering Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Ian Kennedy to the Twins for Johan Santana.

Neal apparently had no inside info here, so there's still no reason to think the Yankees are willing to part with both Hughes and Kennedy. FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal said this afternoon that the Twins are targeting right-hander Alan Horne or defensive-minded shortstop Alberto Gonzalez as the third player along with Hughes and Cabrera. In his latest blog, ESPN's Peter Gammons seems to think it's almost a given that the trade will be completed.
Well, at least we're not losing both of them. I'm fine with dumping Horne or Gonzalez, preferably Gonzalez. I'm really going to miss Hughes

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Rumor has it the Dodgers are willing to take the package they were gonna offer Santana, and send it to the O's for Bedard.

---

Fuck. Guess the Mets gotta somehow get Haren or Blanton cause there's no way they can compete with the Dodgers' offer.

On top of that, I'm reading the Mets offered Gomez, Heilman, Humber, and an additional prospect for Bedard and they were rejected instantly.</font>

[SammyG]

WHAT. I DO NOT want to lose Loney, or Broxton.

[Loose Cannon]

all these rumors are like half true/half false. there's way too much back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. don't believe half this crap. it's almost as bad as wrestling rumors sometimes.

[ClockShot]

Your 'round the clock Johan Santana update.

The Red Sox are all but willing to put in Jacoby Ellsbury. However, they want something extra to come over with Santana. The big name flying around is Joe Nathan.

On the Yankees front. Cabrera and Hughes are pretty much locked in. It's all held up due to the third guy. Twins want either Austin Jackson or Alan Horne. Yankees are holding on that. Also, the Yanks might put a deadline on the deal. Time runs out or if the deal is rejected, they're gonna go hard after Dan Haren.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Damn, the Mets didn't offer arbitration to Lo Duca...meaning we could have had another pick. I guess they didn't do it because they were afraid he'd accept the offer and force himself back on the team...but I doubt he would do that especially since there's no room for him.</font>

[MVP]

Joe Nathan would be wasted talent on the Red Sox.

[RP]

I'm pretty stunned the Sox are willing to deal Elsbury. I mean, you won a championship. He became a fan favorite and the guy has amazing game.

[YOUR Hero]

But who really kows if Elsbury will be the real deal in a full season. I like the guy a lot too. In fact he made me root for the RSox in the WS.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I just want Johan to get traded already because a deal for Haren or Bedard won't happen until after</font>

[Skippord]

I hate Jacoby Ellsbury

bastard and his domination of Rockies pitching

[MVP]

I'd rather keep Ellsbury.

Letting other teams duke it out for Santana is sounding more appealing to me right now. Latest trade idea I heard for the Sox is Crisp, Lester, and Lowrie for Dan Haren. Haren is under contract for another 3 seasons, so they don't have to worry about a contract extension like they would with Santana. Also, it seems like Beckett would want a huge contract extension like Santana's if we signed him.

So next year's rotation would look like this

Beckett
Haren
Dice-K
Schilling
Wakefield or Buchholz

[FakeLaser]

Either way it is going to be a fucking slugfest this year between the Yankees and Sox.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Everyone says the loser of the Santana sweepstakes (between the Sox and Yanks) is gonna grab Haren. But I dunno, if the Red Sox get Santana I think the Yanks might stand pat with what they've got and focus on grabbing an arm for the bulllpen.</font>

[Dragon]

I'd rather keep Ellsbury.

Letting other teams duke it out for Santana is sounding more appealing to me right now. Latest trade idea I heard for the Sox is Crisp, Lester, and Lowrie for Dan Haren. Haren is under contract for another 3 seasons, so they don't have to worry about a contract extension like they would with Santana. Also, it seems like Beckett would want a huge contract extension like Santana's if we signed him.

So next year's rotation would look like this

Beckett
Haren
Dice-K
Schilling
Wakefield or Buchholz

Yeah, but the thing with other teams fighting over Santana is that the Yankees are the biggest players to land him besides the Sox. If either the Sox or Yankees drop out of the running then Minnesota loses a ton of leverage with the other team. And I would imagine that would cause a little trouble with Beckett. Beckett signed a cheap extension with the Sox before (for what, 10-11 million a year I think) and then Santana comes in and would be making 20-25 million a year.

[Dragon]

<font color=goldenrod>Everyone says the loser of the Santana sweepstakes (between the Sox and Yanks) is gonna grab Haren. But I dunno, if the Red Sox get Santana I think the Yanks might stand pat with what they've got and focus on grabbing an arm for the bulllpen.</font>

Yeah, I definitely agree. If it ends up with the Sox grabbing him then it pretty much is letting the young guys do their thing. And pray like hell that Pettitte decides to come back for one more year. With Santana it seems to be just the Yankees and Red Sox really involved (from all reports anyway). With Haren there will be a ton of teams and it wouldn't surprise me if Beane wants more for Haren then Minnesota wanted for Santana.

[Evil Vito]

Yeah, I definitely agree. If it ends up with the Sox grabbing him then it pretty much is letting the young guys do their thing. And pray like hell that Pettitte decides to come back for one more year. With Santana it seems to be just the Yankees and Red Sox really involved (from all reports anyway). With Haren there will be a ton of teams and it wouldn't surprise me if Beane wants more for Haren then Minnesota wanted for Santana.

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah that's what I'm hearing also...and its what makes me a little doubtful that the Mets are gonna land Haren or Bedard. If the Sox do get Santana, and the Yanks elect to stand pat...the futures of Haren and Bedard are basically gonna be decided by the two LA teams who are duking it out for Miguel Cabrera (who is probably gonna cost 4 top prospects).

If the Angels get Cabrera, the Dodgers easily have the most to offer for a Haren or Bedard and can take their pick. But if the Dodgers get Cabrera, the Angels still need a bat more than they need pitching and would probably try to get Tejada or something. Plus after that you have to worry about the D-Backs wanting to get involved or the O's successfully locking Bedard up to an extension.</font>

[ClockShot]

Ok gentlemen. We may have a final decision tomorrow.

The Latest.

Alan Horne and Austin Jackson are now untouchables on the Yankees. Along with Ian Kennedy, Jose Tabata, and Dellin Betances. Brian Cashman has given Twins GM Bill Smith a list of players to chose as the third guy.

Buster Olney reports that the Red Sox have included Jacoby Ellsbury in the deal, but pulled out Jon Lester.

Ken Rosenthal reports Johan Santana won't waive his no-trade clause during the season.

And finally, the Yanks set a deadline of the end of the day on Monday.

[Dragon]

I like that the Yankees are supposedly drawing a line somewhere but it doesn't make much sense. If the Yankees stick to their word the only player is pretty much Boston.

[FakeLaser]

I don't think anyone buys that deadline. Remember when we said we wouldn't negotiate with A-Rod if he opted out?

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Yeah I think they are trying to scare the Twins because if the Yankees really did back off then other teams won't have to give up as much

[Dragon]

LOL man. Santana is really screwing the Twins here. Apparently he has said he won't waive his no trade clause during next season if the Twins try to trade him then. Pretty much meaning its trade him now or let him leave after next year and get a couple draft picks. Then he came out and said he'd only waive his no-trade to Boston and NY this offseason. That doesn't really change the main runners for him but it eliminates every other team.

Honestly, if I was the Yankees or Sox I would take Ellsbury and Hughes off the table. Go back to the lesser offers they were gonna give before and Minnesota would have no choice but to take one. Unless they want him to just walk next year and get nothing at all.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Honestly if I were the Twins I'd keep Johan. They have a chance to compete this year. And if they are godawful come July 31 I wouldn't be shocked if he has a change of heart. And they wouldn't really be getting "nothing" for him...I wouldn't underestimate the value of draft picks.

The plus side for the Mets is that Johan hitting free agency means we've got a chance to got him for 2009 with Delgado, Pedro, El Duque, Alou, and others coming off the payroll. Doesn't help their chances any for landing someone for 2008 though.

----

In other news, Peavy is close to an extension that would keep him in San Diego through 2012.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>And this just in: Pettitte has told the Houston Chronicle he intends to pitch for the Yankees next year. Wouldn't be surprised if they pull out of the Johan sweepstakes altogether now.</font>

[YOUR Hero]

I may be alone in this, but over the last couple years, Santana has become a bit more vocal about his dislikes than he ever was. Now I'm not saying this means he's got an attitude 'problem'... yet..., but he knows his value and he seems to be becoming far more outspoken. It might mean nothing, but it also might be the beginning of something quite negative. I guess my red flag goes up when I hear or read about him saying things that hamper his team's potential success.

[Dragon]

Nice, Pettitte coming back is huge for the Yankees. I don't think it affects the Johan trade stuff though. If the suspected deal with Hughes goes through then a Santana, Wang, Pettitte, Joba, Kennedy/Moose rotation is pretty solid. Really though, I get the feeling Santana will be a Twin or Red Sox next year for some reason.

[Dragon]

Losing out on Santana would be a whole lot easier for the next year though with Pettitte returning. It would be even easier if Johan ends up staying with the Twins and walking next offseason.

Pettitte-Wang-Hughes-Joba-Moose/Kennedy isn't the most reliable rotation at all, but it is passable. If Hughes pitches anything like the last month of last season and Joba transitions decently it could be good.

[Loose Cannon]

lol Hank is just like, yea make a decision or go screw yourself.

[Hanso Amore]

I dont think we will see Joba starting yet. Unless someone goes down, but if they can keep him in the pen and field 5 starters, he is going to be the lockdown set up man.

[Dragon]

I doubt it, we don't really have an influx of quality starters and taking him out weakens the rotation quite a bit by just going off his potential to be great in the rotation. Hopefully he starts in the rotation; the only way I could have seen him in the pen is as the closer if Rivera left.

[FakeLaser]

I think if we get Santana this year we might see Joba setting up this year, then moved to the rotation next year.

Santana
Wang
Pettitte
Kennedy
Mussina

CL - Rivera
8th - Joba
7th - Vizcaino

Pretty fucking tough to beat.

[Splaya]

According to Yahoo.com, Petitte will pitch for the Yankees in 08.

That's huge news for you Yankee Fans

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Would feel really weird seeing Johan without his trademark goatee if he goes to the Yanks.

But yeah with Pettitte returning they now have basically the same team as 2007. Now it's up to them to decide if they think Hughes and Kennedy will blossom this year or if they want the sure-thing in Santana</font>

[Dragon]

I dunno, I still think Joba would be a waste in the bullpen. If he was gonna take over closer duties or something then I could see it but not as a set-up man. I think I could deal with it better if I thought Mussina could actually pitch decent enough over a full season. I don't see that though.

[Loose Cannon]

I think in the regular season, they should try him as a starter, but if they make the playoffs, you got to throw him out of the bullpen. Especially if he's a 4th guy

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>All I've heard from Winter Meetings thus far is that the A's, O's, Marlins, and Giants have been hounded with offers for pitching. (Haren, Blanton, Bedard, Willis, Cain, Lincecum)

Oh, and the Dodgers are looming in on a contract with Andruw Jones...which would probably mean they are no longer interested in Cabrera and will certainly be able to nab one of the pitchers with what they are able to offer.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>And according to Gammons, Billy Beane has already informed the Mets that he really isn't interested in anything they have to offer. :| Fuck him.</font>

[FakeLaser]

This has been like the most dramatic offseason for the Yankees. Steinbrenner steps down. Gator gets fired. Torre gets fired. Mattingly leaves. Then there's all the uncertainty over Posada and Rivera. A-Rod opts out. Pettitte. Santana. Jesus christ.

[Dragon]

Yeah, I could definitely see Joba in the pen in the playoffs. Or maybe even later on in the year considering they need to keep his innings down.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Seems to be two thoughts coming from the Mets camp now: either trade any player short of Wright or Reyes to get an ace...or try to swing deals for lesser pitchers still under contract for awhile (Arroyo being a name brought up alot)

I dunno....they need an ace and all but it would kinda suck if they dealt Maine or Perez or something only to leave us with the same void to fill</font> :-\

[Loose Cannon]

yea, I first I was kind of against even having him as a starter and then I thought about it. The Yankees don't really need a set up guy that much throughout the season anyway because they score tons of runs. Yea, they'll be close games at times, but when you weigh it, I think Joba is more valuable as a starter

[MVP]

According to SI.com's Jon Heyman, it looks very likely that Santana could get traded to the Red Sox or Yankees today.

Theo, don't trade Ellsbury :wavesad:

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>LOL now the Twins are seeking tampering charges against Hank</font>

[Loose Cannon]

where are you reading all this Vito? You have like Insider or something?

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I don't have Insider personally but there's people on all the message boards leaking articles from it.

As for my Mets info, I use MetsBlog.com they've got a rep at the meetings feeding information.

Also, according to MLB Radio, the D’Backs will soon announce that they have traded OF Carlos Quentin to the White Sox for 20–year-old 1B Chris Carter.</font>

[Dragon]

I dunno. I just can't see the Twins trading with the Yanks for some reason. I think Hughes would probably even be overpaying considering the only big piece Boston will include is Lester or Ellsbury, not both.

I still think that a Kennedy, Melky, Tabata, Horne/Marquez/other deal would be better than Boston's. Major league ready starter in Kennedy, ML CF in Melky, high ceiling outfield prospect in Tabata and a near-ready starter in Horne. I dunno, I guess I'm just holding on to hope that Hughes sticks around. As unlikely as that seems right now if we want Santana.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>:| Now the Indians have said the Mets don't have enough to get Cliff Lee. CLIFF LEE ffs

So that's Lee, Haren, and Blanton all seemingly off-limits and I don't really see them landing any other available starter.

Hello, Carlos Silva and Bartolo Colon!</font> :(

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Word has it the Rays are about to trade Elijah Dukes to the Nationals.

If the Rays get more for Dukes than what the Mets got for Milledge I'm gonna puke.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>K so the Nats wound up giving a minor leaguer to be named later for Dukes. No big deal.

So the Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Dodgers, Angels, Mariners, and Diamondbacks have all been linked to talks with Bedard. Shit, I bet you can likely rule out those first two teams...and Bedard is still prolly gonna cost more than Santana.</font>

[FakeLaser]

:| Now the Indians have said the Mets don't have enough to get Cliff Lee. CLIFF LEE ffs

So that's Lee, Haren, and Blanton all seemingly off-limits and I don't really see them landing any other available starter.

Hello, Carlos Silva and Bartolo Colon! :(
None of them are hispanic, of course you won't get them. Colon and Silva, however...

[FakeLaser]

Also

A source told ESPN's Jerry Crasnick that the Dodgers have a two-year, $32 million offer to Andruw Jones on the table.

That's not the kind of offer that figures to make Jones sign on the dotted line anytime soon. No one has stepped up with the kind of five- or six-year deal agent Scott Boras wants, but it'd be a surprise if some team wasn't willing to go to at least $50 million for three years.
I can't see Jones getting more than 3 or MAYBE 4 years after the year he just put up. He'll probably get Bobby Abreu type money.

Brewers GM Doug Melvin confirmed that the Nationals offered him Chad Cordero for Rickie Weeks and that he turned it down.

Melvin insists he won't part with Weeks, J.J. Hardy or Corey Hart just to land a proven closer. He may be interested in Cordero if there was another way of getting him, but Brian Fuentes seems like a more realistic possibility for the Brewers.
Am I the only one who thinks Rickie Weeks is overrated as hell?

Free agent Darin Erstad has received interest from the Padres, Mariners, Astros and Rays.
I could see him on any of those teams except the Rays, which makes no sense.

The Padres have offered free agent Brett Tomko a one-year, $1.5 million contract.

Tomko would likely be a reliever initially if he stayed with San Diego. Also looking at the journeyman right-hander are the Nationals, Pirates, Marlins, Reds and Rangers. Throw in the Royals and we'd have all of the usual suspects.
If I were him I'd sign with San Diego. Best place in the world for a mediocre pitcher to pitch.

The Rockies have reportedly offered free agent Jeremy Affeldt only $4 million for two years.

Affeldt doesn't have the track record of some of the other lefties available, but he has better stuff than most and he's only 28. He's going to get at least J.C. Romero money, and the Rockies feel that someone may offer $16 million for four years.
This is a guy I wouldn't mind the Yankees taking a gamble on as a lefty in the pen. He can start too if you need. Not much risk involved here.

White Sox acquired outfielder Carlos Quentin from the Diamondbacks for first baseman Chris Carter.

A great gamble for the White Sox here. Quentin is questionable for Opening Day following October surgery to repair the rotator cuff and labrum in his left (non-throwing) shoulder, but he should be the team's regular left fielder once he proves he's all the way back. Actually, he should play right over Jermaine Dye, but that probably won't happen. Quentin is a very good defender in a corner still capable of turning in some 25-homer seasons in the majors. His acquisition makes it more likely that Josh Fields will be the White Sox's third baseman next year, with Joe Crede getting either traded or non-tendered.
Sucks to be Joe Crede. A few weeks ago he was being looked at as replacing A-Rod, now he might get non-tendered.

[OssMan]

Nice nationals getting some you black playes who I can root for.

[FakeLaser]

Even though they're under pressure from the Yankees to make a decision before the end of the day, the Twins are in no rush to make a Johan Santana deal, club sources told MLB.com.

As quiet as it has been on the Santana front today, it seems likely that this will linger on for a while longer. The Yankees could say they're out of it if nothing is done tonight, but no one will really believe them. They still look like the favorites, even if the New York Times is speculating that the Twins prefer to Jacoby Ellsbury to Phil Hughes.

[ClockShot]

Whew. Hearing earlier that Pettitte coming back is huge.

Busy afternoon at those winter meetings. Can anybody clarify those tampering charges against Steinbrenner?

[Skippord]

lol at the Rockies outstanding cheapness

[ClockShot]

Vets Committee votes in Bowie Kuhn, Walter O'Malley, Dick Williams, Billy Southworth, and Barney Dreyfuss to the Hall of Fame.

[MVP]

If I was Bill Smith, I would take an offer by the Yankees of Hughes/Cabrera/Kennedy or whomever else they offer over the current Red Sox offer of Crisp/Ellsbury/Lowrie because Hughes fills the hole in the rotation that Santana leaves, and I don't think that Francisco Liriano is ready to be their go-to guy (neither is Hughes, but he at least has more recent experience). With Santana's contract gone, or at least part of it, the Twins can pursue an elite CF like Rowand or Andruw Jones. Granted, Crisp can take Torii Hunter's place too, but I think the current offer by the Yankees is better than the Sox's offer unless they replace Ellsbury with Lester.

[MVP]

I just remembered the Twins traded for Delmon Young, but it looks like he's gonna start in left field right now. So their current CF is Craig Monroe. I still think they need a better bat than him.

[YOUR Hero]

Why would the Twins go after Andruw Jones when they let Torii slip through their hands? Same kind of money basically. I'd rather have Torii Hunter.

Word is toronto is going to... do fuck all. :foc: Hurray to 3rd place at best!

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>WFAN's Sweeny Murti has reported the Mets may be close to landing Erik Bedard, but may have to eat Miguel Tejada's salary or get a 3rd team into the mix.

…from what I can gather, Omar Minaya has been dumping a ton of rhetoric around, back-peddling on his need to acquire a top-line starting pitcher, while suggesting that he may not be in the best position to make such a trade…

…in fact, a few people close to the team have suggested that when Minaya said last week that trading Lastings Milledge wouldn’t hurt his chances of making a trade for pitcher, what he really meant was that with or without Milledge he could not make a trade for a pitcher because he just doesn’t have the horses either way…

---

There's my Mets, always backpedaling.</font> :|

[MVP]

Why would the Twins go after Andruw Jones when they let Torii slip through their hands? Same kind of money basically. I'd rather have Torii Hunter.

Word is toronto is going to... do fuck all. :foc: Hurray to 3rd place at best!

I just left that open as a possibility. I agree with you that Hunter is better than Jones for the same amount of money.

[Evil Vito]

Why would the Twins go after Andruw Jones when they let Torii slip through their hands? Same kind of money basically. I'd rather have Torii Hunter.

Word is toronto is going to... do fuck all. :foc: Hurray to 3rd place at best!

<font color=goldenrod>I've actually heard of a possible Bay-for-Burnett swap with Pittsburgh and Toronto.</font>

[ClockShot]

Some late Santana news.

Twins are starting to call up other teams to discuss Santana. Really don't care about Sox and Yanks now.

On the Yanks front. They're taking the nonresponse from the Twins as a rejection of their offer.

[YOUR Hero]

I've actually heard of a possible Bay-for-Burnett swap with Pittsburgh and Toronto.

Bay would be sweet, but I don't see the Pirates taking Burnett's big money contract. ALSO I just know that Burnett 'could' be so dominant, the question is will he ever be and will he ever stay healthy. I for one, think he can.... Wouldn't mind having Bay on my team mind you.

The Jays are also trying to shop Glauss around, but I don't know if they'll get real market value for him.

[SammyG]

Come ONNN Dodgers, make a fucking move already.

[Hanso Amore]

The Nats made some good moves. Milledge and Dukes = Outfield for 10 years. Can only get better.

Now they just need 5 starters.

[Evil Vito]

Bay would be sweet, but I don't see the Pirates taking Burnett's big money contract. ALSO I just know that Burnett 'could' be so dominant, the question is will he ever be and will he ever stay healthy. I for one, think he can.... Wouldn't mind having Bay on my team mind you.

<font color=goldenrod>I think the Pirates might do the swap if only because Burnett can opt out after a year (which really, one year in Pittsburgh is enough for most people)...but then again he'd be insane if he opted out from the money he'd be getting so I dunno.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Hahahaha Billy Beane:

“If somebody offers you everything west of the Mississippi, you have to listen. If Thomas Jefferson didn’t listen to offers, half of the U.S. would be French. Some people thought it was a bad deal at the time, but I think he proved to be right.”

------

OK so I think maybe the Mets should stay away from Haren if he wants a deal equal to the Louisiana Purchase</font> :lol:

[Dragon]

Man, everything looks like the Yankees won't get Santana right now. I don't know how many times its gone back and forth though.

The Twins keep insisting on Hughes, Melky AND Kennedy, which is hard to do. You can't blame the Yankees for not doing that at all. Especially when the Sox apparently aren't even offering more than Lester as the centerpiece. I'd expect him to be a part of the Red Sox eventually. The Twins just seem to be sticking it to the Yankees by asking for something they know the Yanks won't give up. I'm sure the Twins fans will be happy though when they end up getting Coco Crisp and Lester for Santana.

[FakeLaser]

The Twins and Red Sox have concluded trade talks for the night with a deal likely within reach, the Boston Globe reports.

The Globe says there are indications that the deal would be Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson for Johan Santana. ESPN's Buster Olney also believes that's the package. Crisp doesn't seem like a great fit for a Twins club that figures to have little chance of contending next year, though as outstanding as he is defensively, he is being undervalued as a trade property. The Twins would also be getting a potential No. 2 starter in Lester, a possible No. 3 or a closer in Masterson and a likely starting second baseman in Lowrie. Phil Hughes is a better bet than all of them, but the Twins must not rate him as highly as many do.
This sucks.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Tigers and Marlins reportedly working on a blockbuster deal. Its unclear who else will be involved but it would see Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis land in Detroit while Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller go to Florida.

Holy shitfuck.</font>

[Loose Cannon]

what, is that even a fair trade? never even heard of those other two guys before.

[Hanso Amore]

what, is that even a fair trade? never even heard of those other two guys before.

They are great prospect, both VERY young (miller was drafted like last year!)

I think they would need some more on top of those 2. They would be the center pieces. But would need some lesser guys.

[Dragon]

Red Sox would get a steal if thats all they give up. Hell, if they don't give up Ellsbury or Buchholz that is a huge steal either way.

[Loose Cannon]

yea, I don't follow minor league baseball prospects, but that trade looks lopsided to me

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I'm not gonna get excited until it's official

[Dragon]

Even if the trade is official they'd still have to work out a contract. And I just don't see Boston going out and throwing 25 million a year at Santana. They might and would be able to but I don't think it would be that easy for Theo to do that.

It seems he will go to Boston though, not working out a contract seems pretty unlikely.

[Loose Cannon]

I don't see Boston doing that then if they can't sign him. Cause now they've wasted Lester and all those guys for a guy who's going to be there for 1 year. They'll have to work that out.

[Dragon]

I know, thats what I was saying. They will no doubt get the 72-hour negotiating window or whatever but Santana then has them where he wants them and could offer 25 million a year and not budge off it. If they can't agree to an extension then they don't do the deal. And if that happens then the Yankees are the only team that Santana could probably be traded to. The Red Sox know that too though so I don't see them not offering Santana what he wants. I just don't think they'd be going through the trouble if they weren't willing to offer him 20+ million a year.

I think it would be easier to swallow if Boston had to at least give up Buchholz or Ellsbury. It would be insane to me if this deal goes through with Lester as the center-piece. And Crisp as the second big piece? It seems like all of Boston wants him gone anyway.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>WFAN reporting that Bedard is on the way to LA for Matt Kemp and Jonathan Broxton

God dammit</font> :(

[ClockShot]

Shit. Hearing Santana going to Boston is all but done. It's a long shot, but the twins might give the Yankees one last offer tonight.

Dan Haren is saying he doesn't want to be traded.

Jesus. Who else is out there?

[FakeLaser]

MLB.com is reporting that the Tigers are set to acquire Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis from the Marlins for Cameron Maybin, Andrew Miller and four more prospects.

Jesus Christ there are gonna be some fucking BEAST teams in the AL this year.

[Dragon]

LOL damn. What a ridiculous lineup they will have now.

I just heard that the Angels GM said he hasn't talked to the Twins about Santana. Now it should be no question they will go after him.

[FakeLaser]

Red Sox, Yankees, Tigers, Indians and Angels are all going to be RIDICULOUSLY good.

[FakeLaser]

The National League is going to look even worse next year.

[Innovator]

Gonna be refreshing to be the underdogs next year

[Dragon]

Granderson
Polanco
Sheffield
Cabrera
Ordonez
Guillen
Renteria
Rodriguez
Jones

Insane lineup. Apparently the Tigers are sending 6 guys back to the Marlins. So I'd guess their farm system is pretty depleted but that lineup is crazy.

[MVP]

Detroit is going to be immensely good next year.

It's gonna be interesting to see what the Marlins do in the next couple of years (move the franchise, build a new stadium, etc.)

[FakeLaser]

They don't need much of a farm system at this point. Their pitching is young and amazing, and guys like Granderson, Cabrera and Polanco will be around for a long while to anchor that offense. They have a few years to build up a farm system again.

[Dragon]

I'm surprised they didn't split up Willis and Cabrera. The Tigers gave up 6 guys but you'd think they might have been able to get more in two different trades. Although Willis' value wasn't that high so maybe they didn't have many takers for him.

[ClockShot]

Oh. My. God.

Tigers are gonna be ruthless this season.

[Hanso Amore]

Oh. My. God.

Tigers are gonna be ruthless this season.

Agreed.

I think Mags, Pudge and Sheff will be further on the decline, but add cabrera and fuck all.

Lots of great trades so far, all makje sense and help both teams except the Mets shitty offseason.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>These reports are insane and are seemingly changing every ten minutes.

Now I'm hearing the Mets, Mariners, and Blue Jays are the top bidders for Bedard...meaning the Dodgers balked at offering a 3rd player to the deal.

Mets really might win this thing because they are thinking about adding Fernando Martinez to the deal, their seemingly only untouchable prospect...but he's only 19 so things could change. DO IT OMAR!</font>

[Loose Cannon]

Should I put 20 on the Tigers finishing 2nd now or what?

[Splaya]

Should I put 20 on the Tigers finishing 2nd now or what?

I'm pretty sure you should put your life savings on the Tigers winning the world series

[RoXer]

IF THEY STAY HEALTHY

Everyone forgets about injuries

[SammyG]

So, Marlins dealt Cabrera and Willis to the Tigers, who gave up WAY too much.

Also, I guess the O's are looking for a Santana-like package for Bedard from the Dodgers. FUCK THAT. We are so loaded with young talent.

[Hanso Amore]

So, Marlins dealt Cabrera and Willis to the Tigers, who gave up WAY too much.

Also, I guess the O's are looking for a Santana-like package for Bedard from the Dodgers. FUCK THAT. We are so loaded with young talent.

The dodgers are too loaded with young talent. The chances of all of them being there in 5 years playing well is low, so might as well bank on a few keepers, and send a few packing to be good night now.

The Tigers gave up alot, but it was worth it to be a top contender for the next 2 years at least.

Its sick this year, the rich teams are going to be bringing in all the top guys, and honestly the difference between tiers 1 and 2 are going to be way too big. Baseball is getting worse.

[FakeLaser]

I gotta say, this offseason has been ridiculous.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

If anyone needed a reminder why the Royals are the Royals:

Jose Guillen 3 years, $36 million

He'll make $300,000 less per year than Mike Lowell.

[YOUR Hero]

Jays are talking about moving Rios. I think if they do it'll be for a Bedard. Otherwise I don't like the idea.

[FakeLaser]

Apparently they want Matt Cain but the Giants would rather surrender Lincecum. I don't know if I like the deal for either side.

Interesting:

According to the New York Daily News, the Yankees turned down a trade for Johan Santana that would have sent Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Jeff Marquez and Mitch Hilligoss to Minnesota.

Previous speculation was that the Yankees balked at including Ian Kennedy along with Hughes and Cabrera, but the newspaper reports that general manager Brian Cashman turned down a deal that didn't include Kennedy at all. According to the report, Cashman "never wanted to do the Santana deal in the first place" and became even less interested once Andy Pettitte was re-signed. If true, that would explain why Hank Steinbrenner stuck to his self-imposed deadline and might indicate that the Yankees are truly out of the Santana mix.Well, that's shocking. The third guy in the mix seemed to be the problem, and the third (and fourth) guy in the deal weren't even close to top prospects, at least in line with Kennedy, Horne, Tabata, Jackson or Betances. None of them were even in the top 10. This kind of leads me to believe that the Yanks were never really serious about this deal to begin with. If this is true, that is.

I like that we're sticking to the plan and letting the young guys do their thing, but I am not happy because the Red Sox are going to get Santana.

[FakeLaser]

Manager Bob Melvin said Tuesday that Micah Owings could see time at first base in 2008.

A two-way college star, Owings batted .333 with a dozen extra-base hits in 60 at-bats as a rookie in addition to going 8-8 with a 4.30 ERA in 152 2/3 innings. "I think you ask any guy in there, if they can get on the field some more, my answer would be yes every time," Owings said. "If they can get me the opportunity to swing some more, I'll take it in a heartbeat."
Babe Ruth2K8

[Loose Cannon]

if that report is true, then the Yankees are pretty stupid for not doing that. Have they looked at thier weakest spot lately. Did they see the post season? They need pitching. Who knows how long Petttie will hold up. Wang still hasn't proven himself to be a #1 guy and no offense to Phil and Ian, but they are not proven in the majors yet. Getting Santana would of put some comfort into that staff.

[FakeLaser]

The Tigers are basically the Marlins right now.

Miguel Cabrera
Dontrelle Willis
Edgar Renteria
Gary Sheffield
Ivan Rodriguez
managed byyyyyyyyyy Jim Leyland

[FakeLaser]

Here's how I rank the top AL teams as of now:
Boston
Detroit
New York
Los Angeles
Cleveland

Detroit is just behind Boston because their bullpen isn't anywhere near as good. The Yanks are missing a true ace and the pen has questions. The Angels would have probably been second if they got Cabrera. Cleveland hasn't done anything that substantial to improve the team outside of grabbing some bullpen arms so they're the odd team out at this point.

[Dragon]

Wow, I can't believe those two guys held up a Santana trade. Cashman better be right in Hughes or else this is was a very stupid thing to do. I wasn't for trading Hughes at first but I kind of didn't mind either way it ended. We either got Santana or kept Hughes/Cabrera. It doesn't seem like either team is too enamored with the price tag Santana will bring. I still think he's gonna end up in Boston though.

[MVP]

Cashman blew a golden opportunity there. The only good for the Yankees that comes out of that is now the price for Santana could be higher for the Red Sox.

[Dragon]

Apparently it had something to do with the money (or maybe he just didn't want to deal Hughes in the first place). I can kind of understand that since the payroll is almost at 200M already for next season. But after next season we lose around 80M in payroll and garbage contracts.

Giambi - 21
Pavano - 10
Mussina - 11
Farnsworth - 5.5

And then possibly Abreu at 16 million and Pettitte at 16 million. So pretty much all it would do is replace Giambi's terrible contract. I dunno, Cashman says its about the money but I think it had more to do with dealing Hughes. He better hope Hughes turns into something really special for us.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Now the Twins are speaking to other teams who were previously viewed as "out of it", including the Mets

I dunno...maybe I just don't know much about the backend guys the Sox are offering but I'm not sure how Ryan Church, Carlos Gomez, Aaron Heilman and Mike Pelfrey are not on par with Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Justin Masterson and Jed Lowrie.

I honestly think after all this the Twins are just gonna hold onto Johan and go for it in '08 if they don't feel they are getting enough in return.</font>

[Dragon]

The Twins would be stupid to try and go for it in 2008, especially after Cabrera/Willis just went to the Tigers. I could see them doing that though, it just doesn't make much sense unless they try to resign him.

[Splaya]

So, Marlins dealt Cabrera and Willis to the Tigers, who gave up WAY too much.

Also, I guess the O's are looking for a Santana-like package for Bedard from the Dodgers. FUCK THAT. We are so loaded with young talent.

We did give up a lot but it was not too much. Let me lay it down for you.

Andrew Miller, whereas he is a good pitcher, was going to be a 3 at best in Detroit. Because of the fact that you have Verlander and Bonderman, plus you have Porcello waiting in the wings now that they signed him. Cameron Maybin is a great prospect but the fact is the Tigers are still loaded in the OF without him. He was made to be a centerfielder, but that position will never be availble because of Curtis Granderson. You could say you could move him over to RF when Magglio leaves but the problem is that the casual fan sees that that move could happen. The Detroit Tiger fan sees that that move cannot happen because of what happened when Maybin played Left field this year. His play was shaky at best, making costly errors in games where the Tigers should have won. The other 4 prospects that the Tigers sent out were good, but the team wants to win now. And to gain Cabrerra and Willis, two proven guys, two guys with post season experience and World Series rings, you have to take them at whatever cost. Willis solidifies your bullpen and with the acquisition of Cabrerra, it shifts Inge out of town. And I would much rather have Cabrerra and his power at 3rd then a great defensive 3rd baseman, but a .240 hitter in Inge. It makes sense all around.

[Loose Cannon]

Someone just told me that the Marlins payroll is as much is what the Yankees pay A-Rod per week. lol, is that true?

[Supreme Olajuwon]

The Tigers are basically the Marlins right now.

Miguel Cabrera
Dontrelle Willis
Edgar Renteria
Gary Sheffield
Ivan Rodriguez
managed byyyyyyyyyy Jim Leyland

+ Todd Jones

This might have something to do with the fact that Detroit's President/CEO/GM Dave Dombrowski used to be the President/GM of the Florida Marlins. He's just doing all the things he learned how to do except now he has a budget.

[FakeLaser]

According to ESPN's Peter Gammons, there's a sense that the Twins will hold on to Johan Santana for now.

That's been the general feeling all morning. The least they could do is come out and say they've rejected Boston's proposal, providing some sort of conclusion to the current round of talks. This isn't something that's going to go away until Santana is eventually dealt or agrees to a contract extension with the Twins. If anything, the Twins have even more incentive to move him than they did yesterday, as the Miguel Cabrera addition in Detroit would seem to give them less of a chance of making the postseason next year.
Just stay away from Boston plzzzzz

[Hanso Amore]

Someone just told me that the Marlins payroll is as much is what the Yankees pay A-Rod per week. lol, is that true?

Week? No

Year, yes. Tehy are around 28 million, maybe less now with the trade

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I like how Hank Steinbrenner has already taken over the role of trying to be a hard ass, but when in reality he just looks like an idiot (much like his father has for the last few decades)

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>The Mets and the Twins are not only talking...but they are discussing trades that do NOT involve trading Reyes.

That would fucking own, but I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic because I kinda think they are just using the Mets to get leverage and trying to get the Red Sox or Yankees to give up more.</font>

[ClockShot]

Holy shit at this.

Big 3 way trade rumored.

Mets send Jose Reyes, Kevin Mulvey to A's
Mets send Hector Pellot to Twins
A's send Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson to Mets
A's send Dan Haren to Twins
Twins send Johan Santana to Mets
Mets get Johan Santana, Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson
A's get Jose Reyes and Kevin Mulvey
Twins get Dan Haren and Hector Pellot

[ClockShot]

Also. Blue Jays and Paul Lo Duca might be close on a deal.

[FakeLaser]

What the hell are The Mets gonna do with Dan Johnson?

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I've heard that rumor posted, no way it'll happen. They have nothing to do with Johnson, and are simply not trading Reyes. Also, don't really see what the Twins would do with Haren other than trade him right off as well.</font>

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3142696

Guillen is on that HGH

[YOUR Hero]

Also. Blue Jays and Paul Lo Duca might be close on a deal.

Been a big fan of Greg Zaun's hard nose play, truly a class act character guy. But.
But he can't throw out base runners nor can hit with much power. I could live with less production if he was a better defensive catcher, but he's not. I would be happy for the Jays/sad for him, but I think it's high time.

[YOUR Hero]

Jose Guillen is a bit of a head case. I think the guy's talented enough, he just needs to keep his head on straight.

[OssMan]

Paul Lo Duca is the man, you want him on your team

[YOUR Hero]

...Also he signed a 3 year 36 mill deal with the Royals. Not bad... 12 mill a year for a guy noone seems to want. M's could have retained him with a team option @ 9 mill

[FakeLaser]

I like the cut of your jib

[McLegend]

Longest post ever in tpww history right there?

[FakeLaser]

What the H?

[YOUR Hero]

That was 23 posts at once. I deleted 22 of them :D

[FakeLaser]

You are a goddamn prince

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Anyone else see the story about how personal awards can't be triggers for salary bonuses starting in 2013? Stuff like MVP, Cy Young, Rookie of the Year but I guess World Series MVP can still be one. I think he has to do with who votes on them, I only caught the story real quick.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>SNY reporting the Mets may, believe it or not, be at the top of the Johan stakes. This is surreal.

However, I'm hearing they want Oliver Perez. I mean from a Mets standpoint it'd kinda suck because they'd still have the same 2 spots to fill in the rotation...but obviously Johan > Ollie. But why would the Twins even want Perez? He can be a FA after 2008 and his agent works for Scott Boras.</font>

[OssMan]

Perez is the most frustrating pitcher ever OMG. Normal game is like 7 BB 7 K then he throws in some 8 inning 4 hit 14 K 1 ER game followed by him giving up 6 runs on 9 walks the next start.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah. Obviously, if he's required to get Santana, you gotta do it. Still find it hard to believe tho that the Twins would ask for Perez and not Maine or something (which, call me crazy, I'm not sure I'd trade Maine AND a ton of prospects for Johan...I really love Maine)</font>

[Skippord]

Holy shit at this.

Big 3 way trade rumored.

Mets send Jose Reyes, Kevin Mulvey to A's
Mets send Hector Pellot to Twins
A's send Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson to Mets
A's send Dan Haren to Twins
Twins send Johan Santana to Mets
Mets get Johan Santana, Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson
A's get Jose Reyes and Kevin Mulvey
Twins get Dan Haren and Hector Pellot

That is a giant clusterfuck trade

[MVP]

Santana would probably throw 300 K's in the NL.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I've also heard that the Tigers are very open to trading Willis right back out, and the Mets are linked to him AND Santana and may even try for both. :eek: Going into fantasy baseball mode:

Mets get LHP Johan Santana for LHP Oliver Perez, OF Carlos Gomez, RHP Aaron Heilman, RHP Kevin Mulvey

Mets get LHP Dontrelle Willis for OF Fernando Martinez (replace Maybin as superstar OF prospect), RHP Joe Smith, RHP Mike Pelfrey, C Johnny Estrada, cash (its been said the Tigers don't want to pay Ivan Rodriguez so cash would help)

Potentially Heilman and Smith flipped between the deals.

2008 ROTATION: Pedro Martinez, Johan Santana, John Maine, Dontrelle Willis, Phillip Humber/Livan Hernandez/El Duque/Bartolo Colon/someone else

Fucking scary. It'd rape the minor league system to nothing...but having 3 of the first 33 picks this year can only help.</font>

[McLegend]

Just more pitchers for Pat Burrell to own

[McLegend]

http://photos-688.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v140/133/42/168900688/n168900688_30390330_2600.jpg

[SammyG]

Dodgers land Andruw Jones. 2 years, 36 million... kinda risky. Also, since he is taking over center... Is Pierre gonna go to left? Kemp stays in right... Where does this leave Gonzo?

But yeah, that's a good problem to have. Andruw is the big bat we have been waiting to get for a long time.

[Splaya]

I've also heard that the Tigers are very open to trading Willis right back out, and the Mets are linked to him AND Santana and may even try for both. :eek: Going into fantasy baseball mode:

Mets get LHP Johan Santana for LHP Oliver Perez, OF Carlos Gomez, RHP Aaron Heilman, RHP Kevin Mulvey

Mets get LHP Dontrelle Willis for OF Fernando Martinez (replace Maybin as superstar OF prospect), RHP Joe Smith, RHP Mike Pelfrey, C Johnny Estrada, cash (its been said the Tigers don't want to pay Ivan Rodriguez so cash would help)

Potentially Heilman and Smith flipped between the deals.

2008 ROTATION: Pedro Martinez, Johan Santana, John Maine, Dontrelle Willis, Phillip Humber/Livan Hernandez/El Duque/Bartolo Colon/someone else

Fucking scary. It'd rape the minor league system to nothing...but having 3 of the first 33 picks this year can only help.

I'd like to see your source on the Tigers trading Willis again. Because according to multiple sources in Detroit, there is no way Detroit is letting either of these 2 go for a long time

[FakeLaser]

Dodgers land Andruw Jones. 2 years, 36 million... kinda risky. Also, since he is taking over center... Is Pierre gonna go to left? Kemp stays in right... Where does this leave Gonzo?

But yeah, that's a good problem to have. Andruw is the big bat we have been waiting to get for a long time.
Gonzo shouldn't play, especially with Andre Either and Matt Kemp on the team. One of them are probably gonna be dealt for pitching though (I've heard Ben Sheets being tossed around).

I like this deal for you guys. Just 2 years, and AT THE LEAST you get one of the best defensive center fielders ever and a power bat. He's still only 30 too.

[FakeLaser]

Also, it looks like Rios for Lincecum is likely to go down.

Bonds STILL wants to play next year. lol

[SammyG]

Yah, I dunno, I'm thinking Kemp is gonna be a goner.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Well, the hot stove is now cold. The Twins have all but taken Santana off the table as nearly every team in baseball has started to inquire about him. The Twins may figure that, unless they play out of their mind, people like Lester, Hughes, or Gomez will still be available in July. So the Twins are likely to try and get one more round of ticket sales out of him.

As for the A's and O's, I don't see deals there being made either as not only do they want to wait until Santana goes, but they don't HAVE to trade Bedard or Haren now as they are under contract.</font>

[Dragon]

There's rumors about the Giants and Yankees talking about Matsui. Not really sure where that would go considering I doubt the Giants will offer Cain or Lincecum for a package centered around Matsui. I've heard about Noah Lowry but I really don't want him. Especially for Matsui.

[FakeLaser]

Lowry? Fuck that shit. I'd take Cain for Matsui straight up though.

[Dragon]

Yeah, Cain or Lincecum (doubtful) for Matsui and probably a prospect or two is what I would do. I doubt they'd give up either though. They are questioning giving up either for Rios so I don't see how Matsui would get anything done. My guess is that the Giants don't want to give up Lincecum for Rios and are going to the Yankees hoping to get Matsui for much less. Lowry surely won't get it done though.

[ClockShot]

Hearing now that there's a Miguel Tejada to the Astros deal in the works. But as Vito pointed out, there's really nothing much happening except for spread out notes of Santana, Bedard, and a some Japanese talent.

[ClockShot]

BREAKING NEWS:

Jose Guillen and Jay Gibbons suspended the first 15 games of the season for violating the drug policy.

However. Gary Matthews Jr., Rick Ankiel, Troy Glaus and Scott Schoeneweis. Who were linked to purchasing HGH, were not suspended due to insufficent evidence.

[ClockShot]

Barry Bonds pleads not guilty to Tax Evasion and obstruction charges. Bail set at $500K.

Rule 5 draft went down.

Pirates release Luis Castillo

Cardinals release So Taguchi.

[MVP]

$500,000 is pennies to Bonds

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Rumor has it the Mitchell Report will be out next week and ALL 30 teams will be affected.</font>

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Bonds didn't even have to pay the 500,000 dollars, he'll only owe that if no shows the next hearing/trial or whatever...which I guess is pretty typical

[ClockShot]

Rockies trade infielder Jamey Carroll to the Indians for a player to be named later.

Rockies are gonna make a run for Tadahito Iguchi.

[VonErichLives]

Bonds didn't even have to pay the 500,000 dollars, he'll only owe that if no shows the next hearing/trial or whatever...which I guess is pretty typical


On the next episode of Dog The Bounty Hunter: "Barry Bonds".

Actually, unless something changed, someone if not bonds paid the 500K it's held to ensure he shows up and if he doesn't the court can take that money on default. He may not have put up the money himself, it may have been a bail bondsmen.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Holy shit. Some new buzz coming out, Johan Santana has said the Mets are where he wants to go. He wants to go to NY but stay out of the hitter-friendly NL.</font> :drool:

[VonErichLives]

<font color=goldenrod>Holy shit. Some new buzz coming out, Johan Santana has said the Mets are where he wants to go. He wants to go to NY but stay out of the hitter-friendly NL.</font> :drool:


Who's reporting that? ESPN was running last night and this morning the Red Sox were close and no one else was talking to the Twins.

[VonErichLives]

that being said, if Santana can get the same money and go to the NL, why not? it's easier to pitch in the NL and I'm sure he'd dominate.

[YOUR Hero]

Jays trade Reed Johnson to the Twins for Santana. :shifty:

[YOUR Hero]

( !!!!! )

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I dunno, I read it on Mets blog. The guy runs it as his full time job and he's been talking with people connected with the team as well as teams following the negotiations. Just a general sense right now is that Johan wants to go to the Mets, but then again its unknown if he'd veto a trade to Boston or the Yankees.

Actually, some believe the Mets may have the best offer right now because they are essentially willing to part with all 5 of their semi-developed, high-ceiling players to get him if need be.</font>

[VonErichLives]

<font color=goldenrod>I dunno, I read it on Mets blog. The guy runs it as his full time job and he's been talking with people connected with the team as well as teams following the negotiations. Just a general sense right now is that Johan wants to go to the Mets, but then again its unknown if he'd veto a trade to Boston or the Yankees.

Actually, some believe the Mets may have the best offer right now because they are essentially willing to part with all 5 of their semi-developed, high-ceiling players to get him if need be.</font>

yeah, I'm still hearing the sox have 2 deals, 1 is w/ Lester and 1 is w/ Ellsbury.

I'd rather not deal Ellsbury, but if it meant...

Beckett
Santana
Dice-K
Schilling
Lester, Buckholtz, Wakefield, or whoever the heck wants to go 5th.

I'm could deal with it, also because we'd still have most our young arms and could go after an OF next year if needed, although if CoCo can stay healthy and field the way he does, I can live with .240, but we need someone who'se a true leadoff hitter.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>The biggest problem I think the Mets would run into, if they could get Johan in a trade, would be the extension. Omar Minaya's policy is to never give more than 5 years to a pitcher (he's never given more than 4 but offered 5 to Zito and 4 with a option to Wagner)...but Santana wants 6 or 7.

I think Omar's gonna try and LOAD the contract with money for 5 years and see if Santana bites. But if not, I'd still give him 6 or 7 years if it was a must. 5 potentially awesome years of Johan would offset the 2 broken down ones.</font>

[Hanso Amore]

<font color=goldenrod>The biggest problem I think the Mets would run into, if they could get Johan in a trade, would be the extension. Omar Minaya's policy is to never give more than 5 years to a pitcher (he's never given more than 4 but offered 5 to Zito and 4 with a option to Wagner)...but Santana wants 6 or 7.

I think Omar's gonna try and LOAD the contract with money for 5 years and see if Santana bites. But if not, I'd still give him 6 or 7 years if it was a must. 5 potentially awesome years of Johan would offset the 2 broken down ones.</font>

Santana is the best FA pitcher to hit free agency since Clemens came to NY the first time. I think he might offer 6 years with an option 7th at least.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah, like I said, I'd offer 7 years in a heartbeat if need be.

Santana
Martinez
Maine
Perez
Silva/Livan/Colon/El Duque

Would be a great rotation IMO.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>In a funny note, the Brewers acquired Salomon Torres yesterday for two prospects...and Torres is thinking about retiring.</font>

[OssMan]

Santana is the best FA pitcher to hit free agency since Clemens came to NY the first time. I think he might offer 6 years with an option 7th at least.Santana is the best pitcher of the last decade

[Skippord]

Rockies trade infielder Jamey Carroll to the Indians for a player to be named later.

Rockies are gonna make a run for Tadahito Iguchi.
Jamey :'(

also apparently the Rockies have instituted the one asian per team rule

[ClockShot]

Word going around is that the Brew Crew might get Eric Gagne locked in pretty soon.

Also, after the Tigers picked up Miguel Cabrera, Brandon Inge says he wants out.

[FakeLaser]

Brewers signed Gagne. I like it. Riske, Torres, Gagne, Turnbow. Pretty solid pen. This could be their year.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>In order to make room on the 40-man roster for Pettitte, A-Rod, and Rivera, the Yanks are expected to release Pavano and he'll accept an assignment to the minor leagues while still getting paid the money owed from the final year of his deal, Pavano will not be ready to even begin throwing until July.

Barring a miracle and him healing and somehow getting called up in like September to pitch well (yeah right), this likely officially marks the end of Pavano. $40 million for a guy who pitched in 19 games.</font>

[ClockShot]

<font color=goldenrod>In order to make room on the 40-man roster for Pettitte, A-Rod, and Rivera, the Yanks are expected to release Pavano and he'll accept an assignment to the minor leagues while still getting paid the money owed from the final year of his deal, Pavano will not be ready to even begin throwing until July.

Barring a miracle and him healing and somehow getting called up in like September to pitch well (yeah right), this likely officially marks the end of Pavano. $40 million for a guy who pitched in 19 games.</font>

Fat chance we'll be using him. We'll find someone in time.

Speaking of which, Yanks are ready to sign reliever LaTroy Hawkins.

And the Rangers are gonna sign Milton Bradley.

[FakeLaser]

Hawkins kind of sucks but he's our only option as we don't really want to give any relievers any sort of long-term deal and Vizcaino wants something ridiculous like 3 years. Whatever. He might be ok. If he isn't, it's no huge loss. If he is good, then we've gained solid veteran presence in the pen, which we need as it's really only going to be Rivera and a bunch of kids out there. Oh yeah, and Professor Farnsworth, but he's useless.

I wanted Vizcaino back, but I'm not totally sold on him. He was one of our only reliable arms after Rivera straightened him out, but Torre ran him into the ground last year as he always does with somebody. He might not be as good next year because he's all used up.

[YOUR Hero]

The Padres were going to sign Milton, wonder what changed.... I dunno, the guy's a goof anyway... but he was productive..
Farnsworth should be good. Damn.

[Skippord]

Cant the Yankee's just take Jorge Julio from the Rockies instead

[FakeLaser]

We aren't that dumb.

[Dragon]

Hawkins will get rocked back in the AL but whatever. The Yankees still really need to get a (real) set-up man somehow. Farnsworth and Hawkins are pretty much one in the same. They should be good but their fastballs seem to have absolutely no movement at all.

I guess Cashman is just gonna try and throw enough shit against the wall and hope something sticks. Hawkins, Farnsworth, Bruney, etc...

Then they got Albaladejo, Britton, Ohlendorf and a ton of other guys in the minors all fighting over a couple spots eventually. All their best bullpen arms in the minors seem to be at least half a season away. It still would be nice to get a more reliable arm than Hawkins as that veteran guy for the pen but I guess we just hope for some of the younger guys to step up.

[McLegend]

We aren't that dumb.

How can you say that when Hank Steinbrenner runs the team

[Hanso Amore]

whast up with Humberto? The guy we got from Detroit? He was suppose to be a big fireballer, but I just havent heard anything on him.

[Dragon]

whast up with Humberto? The guy we got from Detroit? He was suppose to be a big fireballer, but I just havent heard anything on him.

He had Tommy John surgery I think. I don't think he pitched at all last year. 3 of our best possible young relievers were all injured last year in Sanchez, Melancon and Cox. I still don't know if they will switch Sanchez to the pen but I'd assume so. No room in the rotation for him anytime soon.

[Skippord]

We aren't that dumb.
I wonder how the Rockies could get rid of that bastard

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Really eager to see this Mitchell Report....possibly may be out Thursday.

Apparently all 30 teams are gonna be affected. lol imagine if Opening Day 2008 comes and all of the teams are loaded with minor leaguers as the rest serve 15 day suspensions.</font>

[CNM]

I wonder how the Rockies could get rid of that bastard

Well for one, they could let him walk seeing that he's a free agent. Don't worry, he's not coming back.

[Skippord]

I did not know he was a free agent. My day just got a whole lot brighter

[YOUR Hero]

Seems like alot of what I'm reading states that Haren will end up in Arizona.

Oakland would get Conor Jackson, Carlos Gonzalez, and two other players.

[SammyG]

LOLLLLLLLLLLLL Dontrelle Willis

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071209/SPORTS03/712090651/1051

[ClockShot]

Paul Lo Duca agrees to a 1-year deal with the Nationals.

Japanese Outfielder Kosuke Fukudome will decide tonight to either stay in japan, or come over to MLB.

[Skippord]

Sick last name

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Kosuke Fuck-you-do-me. Sounds like an Austin Powers joke

[OssMan]

LO DUCA TO THE NATS!!!! team becoming ex-mets and criminals. finally a team i can root for

[YOUR Hero]

man crush

[YOUR Hero]

Fuck, you do me.

[Dragon]

LOL man. Pavano is such an asshole.

The Yankees need to clear room on the 40-man roster for Posada, A-Rod, etc...and are trying to get Pavano to sign a minor league contract. He would get all his money he's owed this year and a buyout for next year and get a place to rehab in the Yankees facilities. Apparently he said he would be giving up too many options if he signed a minor league contract. All the money he has swindled out of the Yankees and he can't just go to the minors and do nothing (like the past 3 years). Instead the Yankees will have to release somebody that could have a chance of helping out in the future.

I guess they can't right out release him if he doesn't agree to a minor league contract because they would lose even more money in insurance they would get from him.

[FakeLaser]

What a fucking douchebag. I was just reading that. He might be the most hated man in New York. If I ever see him I am going to punch him in his grillspot and leave him on the DL for another 17 years.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Wow I'm glad the Red Sox didn't get that guy

[YOUR Hero]

He's well within his rights.

Just DFA him.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I wonder who is gonna be listed on the Mitchell Report, guess its coming out at the end of this week

[Splaya]

I dunno. It's going to be real interesting

[SammyG]

JD Drew

[Splaya]

Well I would say someone from Montana's franchise, but yeah...

[ClockShot]

Cubs win the Kosuke Fukudome sweepstakes. They agree on a 4-year deal.

Padres agree on a deal with Tadahito Iguchi.

Here's a rumored list NTFAs I found.

Ben Broussard
Emil Brown
Brian Bruney
Kiko Calero
Neal Cotts
Joe Crede
Brendan Donnelly
Morgan Ensberg
Johnny Estrada
Mark Hendrickson
Reed Johnson
Jason Lane
Felipe Lopez
Kevin Mench
Miguel Olivo
Scott Podsednik
Mark Prior
Horacio Ramirez
Juan Rincon
Jae Seo
Cory Sullivan
Josh Towers
Claudio Vargas
Matt Wise

[Loose Cannon]

taking names

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Tejada is going to Houston for 5 players. Maybe Tejada has been dogging it for the past couple seasons because he hated Baltimore but I would not give up that much for the guy now. Oh well hopefully Houston crashes and burns.

[FakeLaser]

Just read that. Still think the Brewers have it in the central.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Damn, there aren't gonna be any Fukudome jerseys :( Apparently he said he plans on being referred to solely as Kosuke ala Ichiro</font>

[FakeLaser]

Aaron Rowand signs with the Giants for 5 years, $60 million. Stupid deal for the Giants.

[FakeLaser]

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/r-M2CBGXXiA&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/r-M2CBGXXiA&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

lol slam duncan

[Hanso Amore]

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/r-M2CBGXXiA&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/r-M2CBGXXiA&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

lol slam duncan


What the fuck?

[YOUR Hero]

Aaron Rowand signs with the Giants for 5 years, $60 million. Stupid deal for the Giants.

Yeah that's pretty expensive in past terms, but it seem to be @ the norm anymore. Rowand's alright, he's overrated and all (I think we can all agree) but he's not useless.

[FakeLaser]

He's not useless but the Giants are still going to suck. It's kind of a big contract to hand out for a team that isn't going to contend in the near future.