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Old 10-27-2014, 09:41 PM   #1
Inadequacy
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Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post

Her (or Jon, I guess) ideology has been shown to be ultimately anti-artistic freedom, with thinly veiled shaming as icing on the cake for anyone who tries to engage her. It's so formulaic that a documentary is being made to focus on how she and other SJW/Feminists conduct themselves when called on their arguments/actions.
Are you referring to the documentary that Davis Aurini needs 15,000 dollars a month to make?
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Old 10-28-2014, 04:39 AM   #2
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Are you referring to the documentary that Davis Aurini needs 15,000 dollars a month to make?
Yeah they have some interesting guests planned.
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Old 10-22-2014, 11:03 PM   #3
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I can't take anything you say seriously when you still use "social justice warrior" as an attack
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Old 10-22-2014, 11:55 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by road doggy dogg View Post
I can't take anything you say seriously when you still use "social justice warrior" as an attack
I haven't used the word as derogatory in itself. A chat with SJWs on a blog site made me rethink my usage lately. When I mention SJWs it's for lack of better label. Go back and read my posts and tell me what I should put there. 'Gamer Libs'?
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Old 10-22-2014, 11:52 PM   #5
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I feel like any horrible thing I say ironically in support of gamergate is actaully part of their core platform.
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Old 10-22-2014, 11:57 PM   #6
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And really; I already said at the top of this thread take everything I say with a grain of salt. You don't wanna take me seriously because I said cunt or you think I'm using SJW as an insult - fine. There's a lot of GG peeps who can't wait to discuss this and answer questions. Go for it.
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Old 11-02-2014, 12:05 PM   #7
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I got busy with work & other stuff and wandered away. I get back, and this thread is 10 pages long. This... is going to take a while.
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Old 10-22-2014, 11:59 PM   #8
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The fact that you use the term SJW at all kind of invalidates any point you hope to make
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Old 10-23-2014, 12:01 AM   #9
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That doesn't make sense but okay. It's cool. There are others who are willing to discuss GamerGate with you if you feel I'm not up to task.
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Old 10-23-2014, 12:07 AM   #10
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Kalyx, replace the gamergate situation with the civil rights movement from the 60's. The way your side is acting is basically the same as the KKK. Right down to death threats and lynching. How do you not see that? You are a KKK member.
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Old 10-23-2014, 12:44 AM   #11
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Basically, the TL;DR crux of the entire debate comes down to misinformation.
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Old 10-23-2014, 03:48 AM   #12
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After reading Kalyx's posts I'm both more confused and more disinterested than I was originally.
Last edited by Destor; 10-23-2014 at 04:41 AM. Reason: grammer
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Old 10-23-2014, 04:49 AM   #13
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After reading Kalyx's posts I'm both more confused and more disinterested than I was originally.
What do you wanna know specifically?
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Old 10-23-2014, 04:52 AM   #14
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What do you wanna know specifically?
Ive seen four pages of you doing just that and im going to have to pass.
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Old 10-23-2014, 04:34 AM   #15
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Objectivity is a lie, enthusiast press isn't journalism, advertising funded writing is the biggest influence, these people aren't comfortable with women.
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Old 10-23-2014, 04:42 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by The Rogerer View Post
Objectivity is a lie, enthusiast press isn't journalism, advertising funded writing is the biggest influence, these people aren't comfortable with women.
followed by "Reform or terrorism will occur."
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:00 AM   #17
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That's cool. I'll be updating this thread with any significant to this thing. Laters.
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Old 10-23-2014, 01:30 PM   #18
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Let's say we buckle and reboot ourselves. New name, a leadership counsel, all of that. But then the trolling continues. What then?
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Old 10-23-2014, 02:34 PM   #19
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It will be about timing. Gamergate's root causes are nothing out of the ordinary nor is there anything wrong with most of them as you laid them out:

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- The end of gender bias in games journalism.
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- Disclaimers of any prior relationships between journalist and subject (Kotaku and others have already started this to their credit).
Still think this one is no one's business - on either side.


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On a broader, yes, certain paid articles and corporate shilling needs to end or at least downplay.
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Writers need to differentiate between a game review (which should focus on merits of the game), and their own personal of a game's subtext. This is a tricky line, but a lot of us have been bothered with how game articles are written nowadays. Polygon's Bayonetta 2 review said nothing that would help a potential buyer, but it sure was sexist, eh? They can have blog spaces for that conversation. Gaming needs to be about gaming again.
Is this the review you refer to?

If so, they talk about both subjects - graphics, new gameplay featuers, as well as the over-sexualization of the main character. Oddly enough, a pretty decent chunk of the game is it's art direction, which has to do with her clothes coming off as you chain higher combos. As as integral part of the game mechanics, albeit visually, it can still be offensive to some people and they can have their opinion. In addition, you do not know that it did not help a potential buyer, unless you believe everyone is as in-depth a gamer as you say.

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The end of toxic discourse in the gaming community. GamerGate and Game Journos can together make a huge stand against this age old behavior, we're too busy blaming each other. Nobody, nobody wants to be harassed, threatened or dox'd. Together we need to vilify this behavior. Understandably you can't stop a troll from being a troll, but since we both hate them, we can certainly make their lives hell.
Both groups will lose (and already have) against the trolls. They have nothing better to do and will ruin the cause (as they have) for both sides. If GG echoes the bolded sentiment, I would advise to rethink that strategy.

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Integrity, not even of the job specific kind.
The problem lies that as the GG movement grew, the trolling was way out in front and now any and any associations are tied to the movement. Just as any "hot button" multimedia topic, it will die down given time. It is before that time (such as now) that GG, as a unified movement, to reinvent themselves and their image.

Anything at this point will be lost in the turmoil and both sides will point fingers at one another, trolls will help fuel the propaganda by pointing fingers for both sides as well. No one wins, no one is winning and both sides look like complete asshats.
Last edited by drave; 10-23-2014 at 02:35 PM. Reason: reasons?
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:43 PM   #20
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Still think this one is no one's business - on either side.

No. That review was more than likely a bait article. It was less than three whole paragraphs and it reads like a caricature of what they know we hate about game today's game reviews. I'm referring to how reviews were written in the last console generation. I've had issues with that years before GamerGate.

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If so, they talk about both subjects - graphics, new gameplay featuers, as well as the over-sexualization of the main character. Oddly enough, a pretty decent chunk of the game is it's art direction, which has to do with her clothes coming off as you chain higher combos. As as integral part of the game mechanics, albeit visually, it can still be offensive to some people and they can have their opinion. In addition, you do not know that it did not help a potential buyer, unless you believe everyone is as in-depth a gamer as you say.
I would assume the kind of person, not even a hardcore gamer just a casual type, could look at Bayo's marketing and kinda know what they're in for. So while most people may be as in-dept as me and others, they don't need to. Hell, the Bayo2 review you linked - that writer doesn't need to be a versed in action games as I am either. He didn't need to be the kind of guy who Platinum rated all of Bayo1's challenged, or climbed 30 levels in DMC4's Bloody Palace; but there are degrees.

A lot of today's game reviews are shallow and at times totally paid parts of the marketing. It's easy to spot. Does a guy reviewing a fighting game need to know why meter management is important in BlazBlue? No. Hell, I actually like when they reveal they don't know about that deep stuff, but what is the value of a review written from the other end of the spectrum? People who seem to not know the point of the game? What good is that to a potential buyer?

If I started writing car reviews, with my extremely casual knowledge of cars, and said something like, "The new Camaro may excite fans of a certain yellow autobot, but unless it wants to further push women away from the sacred car enthusiast circle - it should really consider women's body proportions in more ways than simple seat adjustment."

Now I certainly have a right to say that, but what do you think will be the common reaction? Here's this guy who doesn't seem to know duck about cars, critiquing cars, and applying politics where nobody saw it before. I mean, this could help potential buyers. Perhaps some women would like to read that message, but I'm guessing other women who knows their cars would still find me ridiculous.

Let's make it interesting; I decide to Tweet to detractors of my marvelous Camaro that their beef with my piece is just them defending their boys club and rejecting female interests. I then make a follow-up piece that challenges Chevy to make a statement this the matter of female accommodation. I ignore female car enthusiast telling me I'm using shame tactics, and make implications that the male critics are just dismissive of women's issues. Remember; I'm a guy who still knows shit about cars next to an enthusiast.

My problem is not that people have opinions. It never was. But I'm learning throughout this debacle that people think opinion are all weighted the same by virtue of being opinions. And that's not how it works. Me saying my review could help potential buyers falls flat when much better reviews from more versed people would do a better job helping the same consumers.

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The problem lies that as the GG movement grew, the trolling was way out in front and now any and any associations are tied to the movement. Just as any "hot button" multimedia topic, it will die down given time. It is before that time (such as now) that GG, as a unified movement, to reinvent themselves and their image.
Curious; how would we go about that? Because we'd still hold journalists accountable and contact companies when needed. Changing the name would not put trolls at bay, they'd just act out under this new GG 2.0. And if anything, rebranding the movement would also validate that most of the harassment has been on our side. Like the republican ad that needed to say they're people too. We don't need to rebrand ourselves as people against harassment because we are right now people against harassment. No matter what we call ourselves trolls will take advantage.
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:23 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
Let's say we buckle and reboot ourselves. New name, a leadership counsel, all of that. But then the trolling continues. What then?
Why reboot? Why not just shut it down completely? The aim of what you're trying to accomplish isn't going to happen, and frankly it's somewhat silly. You can point to trolls being the bad guys all you want, but even if that is the case the movement gives them the cover to do so. Read an article on Uproxx today that sums it up better than I could say it.

Quote:
What would you say to any GamerGaters who got to the end of this instead of skipping down to the comments?


Simply this: If you look at the facts, people are being hurt. Because of their opinions about games. Games are fun, but they shouldn’t be the most meaningful thing in your life. If you put a consumer product ahead of the health and safety of other people, that shows a profound lack of perspective. In short, it’s not about you. So stop trying to make it that way.
People are getting hurt. Even if it's "not actually your movement" why not just knock it the fuck off for the greater good?
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:29 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Miotch View Post
Why reboot? Why not just shut it down completely? The aim of what you're trying to accomplish isn't going to happen.
Then I guess we have nothing to talk about, sorry.
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Old 10-23-2014, 02:37 PM   #23
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So Felicia Day posted this on tumblr
Quote:
They have not dissipated. And because of the frightening emotions and actions attached to what has happened over the last month, the events are sure to have a long-lasting affect on gaming as a culture. The fact that it has affected me, to the point where I decided to cross the street last weekend away from those gamers, was heartbreaking. Because I realized my silence on the issue was not motivated by some grand strategy, but out of fear that the issue has created about speaking out.

I have been terrified of inviting a deluge of abusive and condescending tweets into my timeline. I did one simple @ reply to one of the main victims several weeks back, and got a flood of things I simply couldn’t stand to read directed at me. I had to log offline for a few days until it went away. I have tried to retweet a few of the articles I’ve seen dissecting the issue in support, but personally I am terrified to be doxxed for even typing the words “Gamer Gate”. I have had stalkers and restraining orders issued in the past, I have had people show up on my doorstep when my personal information was HARD to get. To have my location revealed to the world would give a entry point for a few mentally ill people who have fixated on me, and allow them to show up and make good on the kind of threats I’ve received that make me paranoid to walk around a convention alone. I haven’t been able to stomach the risk of being afraid to get out of my car in my own driveway because I’ve expressed an opinion that someone on the internet didn’t agree with.
Then this happened:

Quote:
Just minutes after her post was made, a commenter with the username “gaimerg8” posted what they claimed was her address and personal email in the comment section below the post. The comment, and the entire comment section, have since been removed.
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Old 10-23-2014, 02:54 PM   #24
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And that is the biggest problem.

The legitimate "Gamer Gate" movement alleges not to take part in said actions. However, the vile people that decide to make private info public have hijacked the name and will continue to take these types of actions indefinitely.

Sucks for everyone involved
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Old 10-24-2014, 01:38 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drave View Post
And that is the biggest problem.

The legitimate "Gamer Gate" movement alleges not to take part in said actions. However, the vile people that decide to make private info public have hijacked the name and will continue to take these types of actions indefinitely.

Sucks for everyone involved
Kinda falls back to that Tea Party analogy. What started as a collection of cons and libs coming together about taxation and fiscal responsibility was invaded by droves of right wing nutjobs who are convinced that the anti-Christ, unamerican black president will take guns, unilaterally abolish term limits, and impose martial law. There may be people who believe in the initial cause, but the name has been dragged through the mud- mostly by assholes who gleefully drag it through the mud and feeling like they belong.

So in this, where you have hundreds of people on mission about trying to keep a discernable division between journalism, opinions, and propaganda, you have THOUSANDS under the same banner who just think its fun to harass folks in anonymity and claim they're doing it for "women" or "race" or whatever thin veil they decide to wear... and all the while building a larger and larger pool of ammunition for those they are fighting against to point and say "look at these monsters!"
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Old 10-23-2014, 02:57 PM   #26
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Fucking scumbags.
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Old 10-23-2014, 03:05 PM   #27
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If this whole thing does not stop, I can see the government stepping in and justifying ending internet anonymity citing this entire fiasco.
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Old 10-23-2014, 03:05 PM   #28
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Felicia Day is a saint, if she is in danger then I'll make whoever harms her pay.
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Old 10-23-2014, 03:09 PM   #29
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Indeed. Just gotta find them first. If someone is savvy enough to gain access to that level of personal info, they will be difficult, if not impossible to find
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Old 10-23-2014, 03:56 PM   #30
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The biggest question here is at th root, who fucking cares and why does this even matter.

This is a scandal to the self obsessed, entitled, out of touch with reality Internet generation. Who fucking cares. This isnt important at all.

guys, we have EBOLA AND ISIS AND THE WORLD IS ENDING.
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Old 10-23-2014, 04:00 PM   #31
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Didn't a few of these clowns threaten to shoot up a university the one woman was set to speak at?
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:02 PM   #32
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I know that while TotalBiscuit is a big supporter of Gamergate, Angry Joe is not. There were many remarks I saw about how he wasn't in favor of Journalistic Ethics.

#3 on this video, by the way...
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:41 PM   #33
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Laura Croft
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:47 PM   #34
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This man was on NPR recently:
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Old 10-24-2014, 03:51 AM   #35
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Both groups are mislabeled also. Boston Tea Parties dropped tea because they didn't have representation in Parliament. Tea Parties had representation in Congress but didn't like how they did things.

Gamergate is mislabed because there is no controversy other than them existing. There was no elicit affair that benefited the girl except for probably bad gamer nerd sex.
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:49 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
Both groups are mislabeled also. Boston Tea Parties dropped tea because they didn't have representation in Parliament. Tea Parties had representation in Congress but didn't like how they did things.

Gamergate is mislabed because there is no controversy other than them existing. There was no elicit affair that benefited the girl except for probably bad gamer nerd sex.
Probably the most accurate thing said on the topic.
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Old 10-24-2014, 08:42 AM   #37
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I am all in favor of Kalyx trolling Chevrolet and possibly forcing them to change the Camaro.
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Old 10-24-2014, 01:21 PM   #38
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ooohhh
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:26 PM   #39
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And before you respond, the greater good is not transparency in video game press.
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:57 PM   #40
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So you don't have any answers to my questions. OK then.
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