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Old 04-01-2008, 06:13 PM   #41
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Seriously, lets get this wager going? I don't think in the next 6 month's Jericho can have 2 show stealing matchs at a ppv.
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:13 PM   #42
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I don't think you know what you're talking about here. I asked you who has been having 5 star matches, and who ever has at the rate you're demanding?

I think your definition of 5 star matches is strange. You judge them harsh, but dont really explain why you dont have a problem with nobody else of talent not having them. At the same time, you expect them frequently, but don't adresst he fact that by your standards nobody else has had them.

As of late, Flair vs Michaels is a 5 star match. Jeff Hardy vs HHH is a 4 star. Given time constraints, pairings and compettitors and match types Jericho has been unable to even attempt a 5 star match. For what hes been given, hes had good matches on tv, and been part of excellent matches on PPVs (mainly 6 men matches).

If Jericho was given 20 minutes + with Punk, HBK, HHH, Jeff, Morrison, Shelton or whoever else in WWE has equal talent today, he'd have a 4 to 5 star match.
He hasn't had that oppurtunity, and neither have many other people.

What match situation has he been in that could have been 5 stars that wasn't? Don't say Punk or Jeff Hardy in 6 minutes of time on tv to start a fued or job a title off a suspended wrestler. Because if you knew anything you'd know those aren't meant to be 5 stars. For what they were given and were, they were among the best television matches of the year.
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:14 PM   #43
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I hear a lot of blah blah blah from you. Do you seriously think that the slow ass match last night was up to Jericho and Cm Punk's standards?
WWE wrestling matches have been slow for many years now. I don't think it's the wrestlers' fault. Even the HBK v Jeff Hardy match seemed slow. The only people that go fast, that i can recall right now, is london and kendrick. Punk and Jericho was pretty good but if you watch the MVP v Jericho match on Smackdown that was much better. Fast wrestling isn't always good either. For example TNA. They just seem to be running around all over the place with drop kicks and clotheslines and then the crowd cheers and chants.
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:14 PM   #44
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Seriously, lets get this wager going? I don't think in the next 6 month's Jericho can have 2 show stealing matchs at a ppv.
How can you steal the show at a ppv if you're given 10 minutes, in a match with 5 or 6 other guys, or in a program with Orton or JBL?
You can't have a 5 star match unless you're allowed to
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:15 PM   #45
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Blah blah blah. If Cena can carry Khali to a watchable match, then Jericho should be constantly putting at 4 star matches or better.
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:15 PM   #46
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BDC man, I don't think this argument can continue because I honestly think you're lost
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:15 PM   #47
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K, whatever Jericho is great, he has just been held down.
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:15 PM   #48
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You haven't answered a single one of my questions either
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:17 PM   #49
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lol now you backtrack with the sarcasm tactic..admit it BDC, you're full of shit.*expects another sarcastic response from bdc*
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:19 PM   #50
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I love where you try to talk about why the match should be better and what makes it bad. I really think you have no clue what you're talking about, which is fine, we're all just fans. But you're throwing out terms and expecations of things you don't even seem to have a grasp of
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:19 PM   #51
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Quote:
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Blah blah blah. If Cena can carry Khali to a watchable match, then Jericho should be constantly putting at 4 star matches or better.
Whoa, when did this happen?
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:20 PM   #52
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Jericho had the best singles match with Orton I can remember him having in years
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:21 PM   #53
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Jericho had the best singles match with Orton I can remember him having in years
Agreed.
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:21 PM   #54
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Again, if someone can name one in the past couple years that has been better I will judge it honestly. But I can't think of one. Jericho vs Orton at Armageddon was better than his matches against HHH and HBK in the fall from what I remember
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:22 PM   #55
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:24 PM   #56
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The more I think of it, I'm gonna be honest. I think Jericho has been consistently having the most solid matches on Raw since the winter, along with Jeff and HBK

edit: on Raw
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:25 PM   #57
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and that probably means the company
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:35 PM   #58
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Exactly, he would have to have 20+ minutes with other top guys to have a 5 star match.

So no he has not had a 5 star match, but who has. IMO a 5 star match is a perfect wrestling match.

And alot of people say meltzer is full of shit, but I havent seen any perfect WWE matches since 1997 either. What the triple threat at WM XX. Come on, it was good, not perfect.
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:41 PM   #59
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I'd love to get an answer the 10 questions I asked BDC over the course of this thread
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:25 PM   #60
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His match with Punk was pretty good last night.
LOL no.
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:29 PM   #61
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Quote:
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Oh, he has been have 3 star matches while everyone else is have 2 star matches, that makes him better than everyone.
Um, in a way, yes.

Jericho has done some solid TV shit since returning. His matches against Jeff Hardy and with the Money in the Bank guys have been interesting. I don't know what you consider "5 stars," but Money in the Bank was pretty fucking good. Fuck, I even enjoyed his TV match with Santino. Jericho has even gotten the fans back on side.

You're embarrassing yourself, BDC.
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:32 PM   #62
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LOL no.
Oh right, because Punk was in it.
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:33 PM   #63
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I know BDC isn't a Punk Mark, but there was no way Punk was carry Jericho in that match.

I think Jericho has been good since his return.
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:38 PM   #64
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Oh right, because Punk was in it.
No, because it was a lackluster match.
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:47 PM   #65
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That MVP/Jericho match was pretty fucking awesome. I'd like to see what they could do on PPV.
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:48 PM   #66
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No, because it was a lackluster match.
Haven't seen it, but you seem to be in the minority there. I can't imagine the two having anything too pedestrian. I'll get back to you about it.
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:52 PM   #67
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No, because it was a lackluster match.
Are people ever satisfied? It was a TV match, and it still was one of the better ones on RAW in a while. There not going to go out there an put on a clinic, especially with the possibility of a feud on hand.

As for Y2J in general, I think he has been doing very good. If you expect someone, regardless of how he is viewed, to go out and have a 5 star match ever time don't bother watching because your never going to be satisfied.
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Old 04-01-2008, 08:14 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heros Welcome View Post
Are people ever satisfied? It was a TV match, and it still was one of the better ones on RAW in a while. There not going to go out there an put on a clinic, especially with the possibility of a feud on hand.

As for Y2J in general, I think he has been doing very good. If you expect someone, regardless of how he is viewed, to go out and have a 5 star match ever time don't bother watching because your never going to be satisfied.
I can sum that post up in one word: BAWWWWWWWW!
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Old 04-01-2008, 08:19 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Haven't seen it, but you seem to be in the minority there. I can't imagine the two having anything too pedestrian. I'll get back to you about it.
No, I'm sure I am in the minority. Mostly because Jericho could come out, drop his trunks, and take a shit for fifteen minutes, and half of TPWW would rave about how awesome it was. Same with Punk. People develop a blind spot when it comes to IWC favorites, and they are elevated to the point where they can almost literally do no wrong.
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Old 04-01-2008, 08:32 PM   #70
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For the record, Punk/Jericho was mediocre at best, anyone who says otherwise either didn't see the match, or was high on meth and would have found 10 000bc entertaining.
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Old 04-01-2008, 08:51 PM   #71
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Lol at this flame war. Who will quit posting first!

Edit:

Did not notice the second page ><.
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:09 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
According to Meltzer, nobody in the WWE has since 1997. What is a 5 star match? Can anyone get one out of Orton and JBL?
Meltzer is also a gangrenous cunt.
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:11 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
Jericho had the best singles match with Orton I can remember him having in years
In a totally unrelated note to Jericho...

I remember this great Christian vs. Orton match on RAW from back when Orton was face. It was like the only good Orton match in that whole period, and Christian did such a fantastic job that I found myself involuntarily caring about Orton in the match and subconsciously rooting for him to win. (Consciously I was still rooting for Christian)
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:18 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Instant Classic View Post
For the record, Punk/Jericho was mediocre at best, anyone who says otherwise either didn't see the match, or was high on meth and would have found 10 000bc entertaining.
I thought it was a decent TV match, but it seemed like they had a 20 minute match plan and just cut out the entire heat part.
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:43 PM   #75
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i think jericho has done good for a guy who was out for 2 years, but hasn't had any 4 or 5 star matches since he's been back. his first program with orton would've been better if it wasn't featuring a guy with ring rust and a guy who IS ring rust. jbl is slow and out of shape, on top of the fact that he wasn't that good to begin with, so obviously those matches aren't 5 star classics. the match with punk last night seemed slow to me, and the finish was almost botched. i dunno whether that was a stylistic difference between the two or what, but for their abilities i expect better. the hardy-jericho match wasn't great, it was solid, but i wouldn't call it anything above a 3 star match.

jericho has the goods, he's one of the best wrestlers of the last decade, definitly top 10 or maybe even top 5.i think so far the fault is really a combination of A). he didn't wrestle for 2 years, it has to take a while to get your timing back and B). who has he wrestled that is good enough right now to carry him to a better match while he is getting his timing down?
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:50 PM   #76
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Morrison Punk from smackdown was great to.

Hell Morrison and miz v. Delaney Dreamer wasn't fucking bad at all.
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Old 04-01-2008, 10:00 PM   #77
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I know my 2 cents count for jack around here but it does really seem that BDC (who is without doubt one of the best posters around here) is just going out of his way to rile people up. Seems you're going the KK route of just trying to get a rise out of people.

As for the topic at hand...I think we need to bare in mind that, having been back a mere 4 months, that Jericho is probably only now hitting his stride. He was gone for a long time, regardless of training you don't just step back out into the ring (or on to the pitch / rink / field / court, etc) and pick up where you left off.

In those 4 months he's had 2 singles matches on PPV. His opponents were Orton and JBL. How many 4 - 5 star matches have those 2 guys ever put on?

Personally I think it takes 2 (or however many guys are in the match) of the very top talents in the game to step into the ring on the right night to get anywhere near 5 stars.

My list in Clox's '5 Star Matches' thread consists of the likes of Michaels, Jericho, Benoit, Angle and Lesnar and pretty much combinations of those guys mixing it up. You've taken 5 technically gifted guys and put any 2 of them in the ring and given them time on PPV. Even then I've stated that I'm not sure I'd give those matches the full 5 stars.

Basically, given the points above, I wouldn't have expected more than we have gotten from Jericho since his return. Once we've seen him in there with the likes of HHH, HBK, Benjamin, Edge, Punk or any of the other highly regarded workers and he's come up short I'm gonna reserve judgement.
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Old 04-01-2008, 10:08 PM   #78
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Chris Jericho saved my baby from a fire.

Twice.
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Old 04-01-2008, 10:29 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL View Post
I know my 2 cents count for jack around here but it does really seem that BDC (who is without doubt one of the best posters around here) is just going out of his way to rile people up. Seems you're going the KK route of just trying to get a rise out of people.

Let's make something clear here: BDC is going the BDC route. On the other hand, BDC may be a jerk on here for the sake of being a jerk, but I also believe he's fairly sincere in terms of not liking Jericho. Or at least, not deep throating him. I'm not sure it goes to the extremes people assume, but then....

Quote:
As for the topic at hand...I think we need to bare in mind that, having been back a mere 4 months, that Jericho is probably only now hitting his stride. He was gone for a long time, regardless of training you don't just step back out into the ring (or on to the pitch / rink / field / court, etc) and pick up where you left off.
I don't expect him to be at his peak the moment he debuts, but I expected more than I saw from him. Especially in terms of mic skills, which really shouldn't suffer from the same kind of "ring rust."

Quote:
In those 4 months he's had 2 singles matches on PPV. His opponents were Orton and JBL. How many 4 - 5 star matches have those 2 guys ever put on?
And if he wasn't being hyped to a level that nobody could live up to....

Quote:
Personally I think it takes 2 (or however many guys are in the match) of the very top talents in the game to step into the ring on the right night to get anywhere near 5 stars.
A good worker can carry a mop to something near 5 stars. Maybe not a true five star epic, but close?

Orton's actually pretty easy to make look good. He's boring, but he's low maintenance as far as carrying a match. Only a few people can make JBL look like a good wrestler, but really, every match I've seen Jericho in since his return has been lackluster. I'm sorry. I like Jericho, but two things seem clear to me:
  1. Chris Jericho should have probably waited to return. He left because he was burned out, and he seems to still be
  2. The IWC seems to fawn over him no matter how good or bad he is.
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Old 04-01-2008, 10:29 PM   #80
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K I'm back. I have yet to see someone point out a 4 star or better match Jericho has had since his return, and no one is willing to put anything on the line saying Jericho will have three or more 4 star or better matches in the next 6 months. I hear a lot of excuses.
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