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#81 |
Feeling Oof-y
Posts: 17,151
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No one is trying to say that Jericho HAS had a 4 star + match since his return (are they?) so I guess you win that argument.
I'm not sure anyine will take the bet that he will have one in the next 6 months either. I mean match ratings are subjective, if he has to have a 4 star + match in your eyes then the odds are stacked against whoever wagers you. What would you want to wager over the internet anyway!? |
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#82 |
Posts: 61,538
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I think the Money in the Bank Ladder Match was four stars. That shit was fucking great. Also, his match with Orton was fantastic. I'd defend his TV stuff heading into Money in the Bank as good, and his match with MVP as borderline great.
I don't see what the problem is. KK and BDC seem to be the only ones holding Y2J up to an unmeasurable standard. |
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#83 | |
Get a poke on
Posts: 35,234
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#84 |
The Satanic Mechanic
Posts: 52,521
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Scrolled through the first page, ignored the rest.
My 2 cents: I've enjoyed Jericho over the last few months (even made JBL look good in ring on Raw), but it seems like they're putting him back in that same IC champ/jobber to the stars role. |
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#85 |
ELF ANGEL
Posts: 39,476
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Yinno, My first thoughts on this topic were how long its been since he fucked sugarbutt.
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#86 |
Ron Paul 4 EVA
Posts: 152,467
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#87 | |
Pelvic Sorcerer
Posts: 64,762
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So I guess someone is arguing that, being the intial argument. |
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#88 |
yes. yes. yes.
Posts: 2,753
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No 5-stars yet for sure, but he's certainly getting better. He was VERY rusty when he came back and it showed.
Since MITB was announced, he's upped his game in his promos, in-ring work and to say that I enjoyed his win over OR Punk on Monday is an understatement. IMO Jericho's doing just fine and I'd even go as far as saying that he'll be a World Champion again by the end of the year. |
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#89 | |
Ron Paul 4 EVA
Posts: 152,467
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#90 | |
Total Non-Stop Apologist
Posts: 4,430
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That's what you want everyone to say. You don't want explanations that are perfectly reasonable, you just want people to agree with you. Or you want to see people futilely try to reason with you. Okay. The short answer is... He hasn't. |
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#91 |
yes. yes. yes.
Posts: 2,753
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#92 |
▒▓▀▄WINNER▄▀▓▒
Posts: 5,070
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I don't think he's "SAVED US", RAW was ok considering how it was a few months before it. But as someone said above, I can't see areason why he's made it worse.
To be honest. Santino saved us all. He's gold. Give him the strap back. He can kill Chris Jericho and his Jericho Walls. |
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#93 |
▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬
Posts: 16,011
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Santino's destiny is already planned out. He will just be a comedy thing.
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#94 |
Ron Paul 4 EVA
Posts: 152,467
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#95 |
Get a poke on
Posts: 35,234
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How are we going to agree on whats a 4 or 5 star match? I mean, you can easily just turn around and say it wasn't "up to his standards" or "was only better than normal" or something?
I say the terms of the bet are we see what people say when this gets bumped in 2 months. But the match we're looking for is 5 stars by your standards, which as you say, he can and should be having all the time. Which is of course ridiculous because nobody has 5 stars that frequently, it's impossible given limitations by the company. So, if we're not even on the same page about what a great match is and how responsible he is for not having them, how do we manage this bet? It's over an intangible thing. In a few months you can just take a great match and say, "he wasn't going fast enough" You also still didn't answer a single one of my questions. |
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#96 |
Tacos!
Posts: 795
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The only reason this discussion seems to persist is because of the 4 or 5 star matches Jericho has failed to put on. Then again, who on any of the rosters is capable of said match?
The only thing wrong with Jericho in my opinion since his return is that he was set to a standard that was completely unreasonable. The save us thing while being interesting and garnered discussion, really over-hyped the guy. If you wanna argue he hasn't had a 5 star match fine, but who has? To say he hasn't improved raw in any way, imo, is completely untrue. |
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#97 | |
Tacos!
Posts: 795
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#98 | |
Ron Paul 4 EVA
Posts: 152,467
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#99 |
Pelvic Sorcerer
Posts: 64,762
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Flair and HBK had a 5 star match.
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#100 |
Pelvic Sorcerer
Posts: 64,762
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You know, I doubt Jericho is even as good as you claim he is. I mean Eddie could carry a bowl of pudding to a 4 star classic no problem, and you all are bitching Jericho hasn't had the right opponets to put on 3 star matches with.
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#101 |
Ron Paul 4 EVA
Posts: 152,467
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Jericho is a great wrestler. I don't know if he's gotten lazy, stopped caring, or what, but he's just not Jericho these days. Halfass Jericho is still kinda entertaining, but he's not the same guy.
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#102 |
Spliff & A Brew
Posts: 6,754
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The main question of this thread is, has he put on a showstealing match since his return. No is quite simply the answer. The thing BDC is getting at, is that if he is proclaimed by IWC to be the dog's bollocks, then he should be stealing the show in his PPV matches.
Television is tricky, because its usually a short timeframe and the finish is the important selling part. But I don't think he has had a standout match since his return. I also agree that he seems to slow the pace alot more than i've ever seen and you can see, and hear him calling the moves, especially in the early part of matches when the crowd is cold. Excusing it that he is working JBL, thus restricting his ability to put on a great match? Come on. JBL had some really good matches when he was the World Champ, so surely adding that with Jericho would produce a good match. Its certainly unlucky that he doesn't have WCW cruisers, or Eddie, or Benoit or Angle to put on a show with anymore... But it certainly didn't take Chris Jericho for Angle, or Benoit or Eddie to steal the show regularly. I think he needs a total gimmick change, heel turn, the whole lot to give him the chance to work a match and a crowd in a different way. At the moment, breaking the walls down and the same move set isn't lighting any fires. Thats my 2 cents. |
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#103 |
Pelvic Sorcerer
Posts: 64,762
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Thank you Fabien, that is my point exactly. Plus Jericho was lazy before he left and still lazy now.
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#104 | |
Ron Paul 4 EVA
Posts: 152,467
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#105 |
One Of A Kind
Posts: 22,178
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Well i've just seen jericho's match v cm punk, good stuff imo. Oh and btw, it hasn't been over 6 months dumbass. And don't even tell me that bdc has a point here, he knows what he's doing, even if jericho had a 5 star match bdc wouldn't notice it.
Last edited by Londoner; 04-03-2008 at 06:57 PM. |
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#106 | |
Spliff & A Brew
Posts: 6,754
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Quote:
Well I don't really care what net marks think. I mean, nobody will ever deny that Bret Hart was one of the best wrestlers of all time, but did his gimmick, and mood set get stale as hell, especially in the last 2 years of his career? Hell yes. And that would be fine if he was the Undertaker, but he was renound for his wrestling skill and the way he could bring the best out of anybody, and he was failing to live up to his standard at that point. Doesn't mean I don't admire The Hitman, its just how it is. And nobody in this entire discussion is suggesting Jericho isn't an outstanding wrestler, he has simply settled into the same casual and lazy rut he was in before he left, and as people who enjoy high standards from great wrestlers, its an observation worth making. |
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#107 |
Spliff & A Brew
Posts: 6,754
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#108 |
Part time poster
Posts: 22,963
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#109 |
One Of A Kind
Posts: 22,178
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Tbh i think you guys are over judgmental of jericho atm, for one thing you can't just expect 5 star matches every week from him especially when he's had a lot of time off. And also, he has been pretty entertaining and certainly does the IC title no damage with him being the champ.
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#110 |
▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬
Posts: 16,011
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No one watched the MVP v Jericho match?
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#111 |
One Of A Kind
Posts: 22,178
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Fabien, bdc asked me about it yesterday. Like i said, bdc knows what he's doing.
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#112 |
One Of A Kind
Posts: 22,178
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I saw the mvp jericho match also, again, very good stuff.
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#113 |
...IN HD!!!!
Posts: 23,327
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Were you actually expecting more?
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#114 |
One Of A Kind
Posts: 22,178
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im still expecting to see jericho main eventing again in future, can't expect to go straight to the top within the first few months ffs.
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#115 | |
Spliff & A Brew
Posts: 6,754
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This has nothing to to with his placement on the card, it is about the standard of his work. The two things are not the same. The majority of Benoits best work in WWE was based around the IC title. Why don't you argue the point that is at hand? |
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#116 |
Part time poster
Posts: 22,963
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His work has been fine since his comeback.
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#117 |
One Of A Kind
Posts: 22,178
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I'm just picking up on the points being raised in this thread fabien, idiot. And rob is correct.
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#118 |
Spliff & A Brew
Posts: 6,754
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Then put that in the 'Its been 6 months... and how many OK matches has Jericho performed in.' Thread.
Im not trying to be a dick or anything, but the main point of this thread has been virtually ignored by most who have posted in it. |
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#119 |
One Of A Kind
Posts: 22,178
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Thing is, it hasn't been 6 months has it?
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#120 |
Ron Paul 4 EVA
Posts: 152,467
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You know, after calling BDC out on it not being over six months, I really can't believe you said that. I mean, isn't that EXACTLY what he did?
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