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Old 04-01-2008, 11:50 PM   #81
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No one is trying to say that Jericho HAS had a 4 star + match since his return (are they?) so I guess you win that argument.

I'm not sure anyine will take the bet that he will have one in the next 6 months either. I mean match ratings are subjective, if he has to have a 4 star + match in your eyes then the odds are stacked against whoever wagers you.

What would you want to wager over the internet anyway!?
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:24 AM   #82
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I think the Money in the Bank Ladder Match was four stars. That shit was fucking great. Also, his match with Orton was fantastic. I'd defend his TV stuff heading into Money in the Bank as good, and his match with MVP as borderline great.

I don't see what the problem is. KK and BDC seem to be the only ones holding Y2J up to an unmeasurable standard.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:36 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
K I'm back. I have yet to see someone point out a 4 star or better match Jericho has had since his return, and no one is willing to put anything on the line saying Jericho will have three or more 4 star or better matches in the next 6 months. I hear a lot of excuses.
No one argued that, and you have yet to even adress the questions asked, or pay attention to what is being said. I take it you're trying to fuck around here
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:50 AM   #84
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Scrolled through the first page, ignored the rest.

My 2 cents: I've enjoyed Jericho over the last few months (even made JBL look good in ring on Raw), but it seems like they're putting him back in that same IC champ/jobber to the stars role.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:59 AM   #85
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Yinno, My first thoughts on this topic were how long its been since he fucked sugarbutt.
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Old 04-02-2008, 07:42 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
No one argued that, and you have yet to even adress the questions asked, or pay attention to what is being said. I take it you're trying to fuck around here
Argued what? BDC said he has seen nobody say anything of the sort, and then a bunch of excuse.
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:12 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
No one argued that, and you have yet to even adress the questions asked, or pay attention to what is being said. I take it you're trying to fuck around here
I argued that. Infact that is the whole reason I started this entire thread. I said Jericho hasn't had a 5 star match since his return. Then I said he hasn't even had a 4 star match since his return. You then proposed a gentlemen's bet about Jericho having a 5 star match in the next 6 months. I upped the ante on the bet say I don't think he can have at least 3 4 or more star matches in the next six months then asking what you want the stakes to be.

So I guess someone is arguing that, being the intial argument.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:51 PM   #88
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No 5-stars yet for sure, but he's certainly getting better. He was VERY rusty when he came back and it showed.

Since MITB was announced, he's upped his game in his promos, in-ring work and to say that I enjoyed his win over OR Punk on Monday is an understatement.

IMO Jericho's doing just fine and I'd even go as far as saying that he'll be a World Champion again by the end of the year.
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Old 04-02-2008, 01:16 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addy2hotty View Post
No 5-stars yet for sure, but he's certainly getting better. He was VERY rusty when he came back and it showed.

Since MITB was announced, he's upped his game in his promos, in-ring work and to say that I enjoyed his win over OR Punk on Monday is an understatement.

IMO Jericho's doing just fine and I'd even go as far as saying that he'll be a World Champion again by the end of the year.
I can see most of your argument, but you totally lost me at World Champion.
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Old 04-02-2008, 04:02 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
That is right, it has been over 6 months now since Chris Jericho made his big comeback. My question is, has he had a single 5 star match yet?
He hasn't.

That's what you want everyone to say. You don't want explanations that are perfectly reasonable, you just want people to agree with you. Or you want to see people futilely try to reason with you. Okay. The short answer is...

He hasn't.
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Old 04-02-2008, 04:50 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
I can see most of your argument, but you totally lost me at World Champion.
Hey, if Kane can again....
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Old 04-02-2008, 05:35 PM   #92
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I don't think he's "SAVED US", RAW was ok considering how it was a few months before it. But as someone said above, I can't see areason why he's made it worse.

To be honest. Santino saved us all. He's gold. Give him the strap back. He can kill Chris Jericho and his Jericho Walls.
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Old 04-02-2008, 05:42 PM   #93
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Santino's destiny is already planned out. He will just be a comedy thing.
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Old 04-02-2008, 07:19 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addy2hotty View Post
Hey, if Kane can again....
The ECW Championship counts?

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Santino's destiny is already planned out. He will just be a comedy thing.
Which will be moot in six months when the IWC crush is over.
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Old 04-03-2008, 10:53 AM   #95
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How are we going to agree on whats a 4 or 5 star match? I mean, you can easily just turn around and say it wasn't "up to his standards" or "was only better than normal" or something?
I say the terms of the bet are we see what people say when this gets bumped in 2 months. But the match we're looking for is 5 stars by your standards, which as you say, he can and should be having all the time. Which is of course ridiculous because nobody has 5 stars that frequently, it's impossible given limitations by the company.
So, if we're not even on the same page about what a great match is and how responsible he is for not having them, how do we manage this bet? It's over an intangible thing. In a few months you can just take a great match and say, "he wasn't going fast enough"

You also still didn't answer a single one of my questions.
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Old 04-03-2008, 11:08 AM   #96
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The only reason this discussion seems to persist is because of the 4 or 5 star matches Jericho has failed to put on. Then again, who on any of the rosters is capable of said match?

The only thing wrong with Jericho in my opinion since his return is that he was set to a standard that was completely unreasonable. The save us thing while being interesting and garnered discussion, really over-hyped the guy.

If you wanna argue he hasn't had a 5 star match fine, but who has? To say he hasn't improved raw in any way, imo, is completely untrue.
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Old 04-03-2008, 11:10 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooияakeя™ View Post
I don't think he's "SAVED US", RAW was ok considering how it was a few months before it. But as someone said above, I can't see areason why he's made it worse.

To be honest. Santino saved us all. He's gold. Give him the strap back. He can kill Chris Jericho and his Jericho Walls.
I could see it... if I thought there was more to him than just the mic skills
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Old 04-03-2008, 11:57 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dablackguy View Post
The only reason this discussion seems to persist is because of the 4 or 5 star matches Jericho has failed to put on. Then again, who on any of the rosters is capable of said match?

The only thing wrong with Jericho in my opinion since his return is that he was set to a standard that was completely unreasonable. The save us thing while being interesting and garnered discussion, really over-hyped the guy.

If you wanna argue he hasn't had a 5 star match fine, but who has? To say he hasn't improved raw in any way, imo, is completely untrue.
Howabout 4 stars?
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Old 04-03-2008, 01:12 PM   #99
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Flair and HBK had a 5 star match.
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Old 04-03-2008, 01:16 PM   #100
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You know, I doubt Jericho is even as good as you claim he is. I mean Eddie could carry a bowl of pudding to a 4 star classic no problem, and you all are bitching Jericho hasn't had the right opponets to put on 3 star matches with.
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Old 04-03-2008, 01:36 PM   #101
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Jericho is a great wrestler. I don't know if he's gotten lazy, stopped caring, or what, but he's just not Jericho these days. Halfass Jericho is still kinda entertaining, but he's not the same guy.
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Old 04-03-2008, 02:02 PM   #102
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The main question of this thread is, has he put on a showstealing match since his return. No is quite simply the answer. The thing BDC is getting at, is that if he is proclaimed by IWC to be the dog's bollocks, then he should be stealing the show in his PPV matches.

Television is tricky, because its usually a short timeframe and the finish is the important selling part. But I don't think he has had a standout match since his return. I also agree that he seems to slow the pace alot more than i've ever seen and you can see, and hear him calling the moves, especially in the early part of matches when the crowd is cold.

Excusing it that he is working JBL, thus restricting his ability to put on a great match? Come on. JBL had some really good matches when he was the World Champ, so surely adding that with Jericho would produce a good match. Its certainly unlucky that he doesn't have WCW cruisers, or Eddie, or Benoit or Angle to put on a show with anymore... But it certainly didn't take Chris Jericho for Angle, or Benoit or Eddie to steal the show regularly.

I think he needs a total gimmick change, heel turn, the whole lot to give him the chance to work a match and a crowd in a different way. At the moment, breaking the walls down and the same move set isn't lighting any fires.

Thats my 2 cents.
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Old 04-03-2008, 02:32 PM   #103
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Thank you Fabien, that is my point exactly. Plus Jericho was lazy before he left and still lazy now.
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:05 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien Barthez View Post
The main question of this thread is, has he put on a showstealing match since his return. No is quite simply the answer. The thing BDC is getting at, is that if he is proclaimed by IWC to be the dog's bollocks, then he should be stealing the show in his PPV matches.

Television is tricky, because its usually a short timeframe and the finish is the important selling part. But I don't think he has had a standout match since his return. I also agree that he seems to slow the pace alot more than i've ever seen and you can see, and hear him calling the moves, especially in the early part of matches when the crowd is cold.

Excusing it that he is working JBL, thus restricting his ability to put on a great match? Come on. JBL had some really good matches when he was the World Champ, so surely adding that with Jericho would produce a good match. Its certainly unlucky that he doesn't have WCW cruisers, or Eddie, or Benoit or Angle to put on a show with anymore... But it certainly didn't take Chris Jericho for Angle, or Benoit or Eddie to steal the show regularly.

I think he needs a total gimmick change, heel turn, the whole lot to give him the chance to work a match and a crowd in a different way. At the moment, breaking the walls down and the same move set isn't lighting any fires.

Thats my 2 cents.
You're looking at things logically, something that will get you scorned and ignored out of inconvenience.
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:55 PM   #105
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Well i've just seen jericho's match v cm punk, good stuff imo. Oh and btw, it hasn't been over 6 months dumbass. And don't even tell me that bdc has a point here, he knows what he's doing, even if jericho had a 5 star match bdc wouldn't notice it.

Last edited by Londoner; 04-03-2008 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:11 PM   #106
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You're looking at things logically, something that will get you scorned and ignored out of inconvenience.

Well I don't really care what net marks think. I mean, nobody will ever deny that Bret Hart was one of the best wrestlers of all time, but did his gimmick, and mood set get stale as hell, especially in the last 2 years of his career? Hell yes.

And that would be fine if he was the Undertaker, but he was renound for his wrestling skill and the way he could bring the best out of anybody, and he was failing to live up to his standard at that point.

Doesn't mean I don't admire The Hitman, its just how it is.

And nobody in this entire discussion is suggesting Jericho isn't an outstanding wrestler, he has simply settled into the same casual and lazy rut he was in before he left, and as people who enjoy high standards from great wrestlers, its an observation worth making.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:13 PM   #107
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Well i've just seen jericho's match v cm punk, good stuff imo.
Who is talking about a 6 minute match for TV? Nobody in this thread mate.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:13 PM   #108
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Flair and HBK had a 5 star match.
Nah they didn't.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:14 PM   #109
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Tbh i think you guys are over judgmental of jericho atm, for one thing you can't just expect 5 star matches every week from him especially when he's had a lot of time off. And also, he has been pretty entertaining and certainly does the IC title no damage with him being the champ.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:15 PM   #110
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No one watched the MVP v Jericho match? I'm not saying it was 5 stars or anything but that was way better than Punk v Jericho and I'm not even an MVP fan.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:17 PM   #111
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Fabien, bdc asked me about it yesterday. Like i said, bdc knows what he's doing.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:18 PM   #112
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I saw the mvp jericho match also, again, very good stuff.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:20 PM   #113
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Scrolled through the first page, ignored the rest.

My 2 cents: I've enjoyed Jericho over the last few months (even made JBL look good in ring on Raw), but it seems like they're putting him back in that same IC champ/jobber to the stars role.
Were you actually expecting more?
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:22 PM   #114
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im still expecting to see jericho main eventing again in future, can't expect to go straight to the top within the first few months ffs.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:27 PM   #115
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im still expecting to see jericho main eventing again in future, can't expect to go straight to the top within the first few months ffs.

This has nothing to to with his placement on the card, it is about the standard of his work. The two things are not the same. The majority of Benoits best work in WWE was based around the IC title. Why don't you argue the point that is at hand?
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:32 PM   #116
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His work has been fine since his comeback.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:35 PM   #117
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I'm just picking up on the points being raised in this thread fabien, idiot. And rob is correct.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:36 PM   #118
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Then put that in the 'Its been 6 months... and how many OK matches has Jericho performed in.' Thread.

Im not trying to be a dick or anything, but the main point of this thread has been virtually ignored by most who have posted in it.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:37 PM   #119
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Thing is, it hasn't been 6 months has it?
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:41 PM   #120
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im still expecting to see jericho main eventing again in future, can't expect to go straight to the top within the first few months ffs.
You know, after calling BDC out on it not being over six months, I really can't believe you said that. I mean, isn't that EXACTLY what he did?
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