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Old 02-19-2010, 12:14 AM   #1
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The Miz/Danielson
it seems after reading the interviews by Miz and Morrison that they are building up the fact that Danielson has more experience than Miz and that this pairing is backwards...Im thinking this leads into a feud on the show between the two which will culminate in danielson being brought up to the main roster and taking the US title from Miz? any thoughts?
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:18 AM   #2
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It could happen. Reading Miz's comments, I don't necessarily disagree with him either. If he can get Bryan's personality to come through, he'll be doing his job. While Miz can't teach Danielson anything about wrestling, he can teach him about developing a character.
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:18 AM   #3
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I agree. Danielson is going to be great no matter what they do with him.
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:18 AM   #4
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I don't really understand why this is that big of an issue at all. I'm sure I'll get some smark backlash for this but... To the casual fan, The Miz is a more successful professional wrestler than Bryan Danielson. More exposure, more TV time, more titles, more time in the "big leagues."
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:31 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
I don't really understand why this is that big of an issue at all. I'm sure I'll get some smark backlash for this but... To the casual fan, The Miz is a more successful professional wrestler than Bryan Danielson. More exposure, more TV time, more titles, more time in the "big leagues."
While that is true, I'm fairly certain they're going to build up that Danielson has been wrestling for over a decade, has wrestled all over the world, etc, etc. They'll play Danielson up as having more experience then the Miz, I think that's what they're going for though.
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:35 AM   #6
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That would make tons of sense and I hope they do that. I always hate when they bring in guys that have been around forever, give them a new name, and act like they walked in out of nowhere.
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:53 AM   #7
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I'm pretty sure, since when they showed his image on ECW, one of the commentators said he'd been wrestling for X amount of years, has wrestled all over the world, and pretty much won a title everywhere he's been.
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:55 AM   #8
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I'm pretty sure, since when they showed his image on ECW, one of the commentators said he'd been wrestling for X amount of years, has wrestled all over the world, and pretty much won a title everywhere he's been.
Pretty much
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:02 AM   #9
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I just want to put out there that plenty of wrestlers with experience wrestling all over the world have crashed and burned when they got a shot in the WWE. Danielson has no guarantees.
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:04 AM   #10
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That being said I hope he does make it. Dude has unlimited potential but the WWE is a little bit different than global indy promotions.
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Old 02-19-2010, 11:59 AM   #11
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If Dragon can be the cocky heel like he was during his title run in ROH, his charisma CAN some through
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:03 PM   #12
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If Daniel Bryan ends up dethroning The Miz, I hope it leads to The Miz jumping up to the main event.
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Old 02-19-2010, 01:45 PM   #13
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I laughed when I first heard The Miz and Bryan would be together. I was thinking, what could The Miz teach Bryan?

After reading Miz's comments, he was completely right. Bryan has about as much flavor as a piece in toast and I think The Miz can make Bryan even better than he is now by giving him some flavor. As The Miz said, just because you are successful in the indies, does not mean you will be successful in WWE. It is a totally different game.
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Old 02-19-2010, 01:51 PM   #14
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I'm sure he was kayfabing those comments, but like any good promo there's truth to them.

I think the relationship could be pretty hilarious. It's a great way to launch Danielson's career in WWE, I think.
It will allow him to be shown off, while at the same time complementing him with a sports entertainment angle. Some of the "flavor" will rub off, and I'd imagine the fued could define his WWE persona.
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Old 02-19-2010, 01:56 PM   #15
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I think it's awesome that here in 2010, we can sit here and discuss how The Miz can help develop other talents as opposed to us just wishing that Smackdown didn't have a host.
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Old 02-19-2010, 01:59 PM   #16
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I'm pretty sure The Miz should start tweeting during matches
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Favre4Ever View Post
I just want to put out there that plenty of wrestlers with experience wrestling all over the world have crashed and burned when they got a shot in the WWE. Danielson has no guarantees.
9 times out of 10, it's been because of bad booking though, and to no fault of the superstar in question.

Prime examples: Ultimo Dragon, Taz
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:12 PM   #18
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Danielson has a lot of supporters in WWE as far as I know. He may not become huge, but I think he'll be showcased well for whatever time he's there.
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:16 PM   #19
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I think Taz could have been a big star in WWE, but I don't think Ultimo ever stood a chance to see the type of success Rey did.

Maybe if the cruiserweight division was booked stronger in general, he'd have a better chance, but I don't think the WWE crowd really had any interest from day one.
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Old 02-19-2010, 11:49 PM   #20
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I don't think Taz stood a chance and that is because of his size. We all know Vince likes the big guys and Taz is short.
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Old 02-20-2010, 12:32 AM   #21
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I am really looking forward to this Miz/Daniel Bryan pairing. There is just so much there. The fact that Bryan has always twice the experience that The Miz has. Bryan has won titles all over the world, whereas The Miz has been largely based in one continent. The Miz is loud and obnoxious, whereas Bryan will only say something when he has something to say. This is going to be great contrast, and I would not be surprised at all if it led to Daniel Bryan dethroning The Miz for the United States Title, and setting himself as a plucky babyface with a ton of potential.

It'll be fun to see Daniel Bryan interacting with Big Show, too. Hopefully they put Maryse with Show-Miz on-air, and we get to see her interact with Bryan, too. I see Daniel Bryan sort of holding his tongue, and just keeping his cool for a good duration of NXT, even showing up on RAW carrying the bags of Miz and Big Show -- only to eventually get a smirk on his face one day, and just snap on Miz -- either physically or verbally.
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Old 02-20-2010, 12:08 PM   #22
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I hate that people just assume that Dragon has no Charisma/Character because he can wrestle well. You see some of his stuff in ROH when he was champ he showed a ton of Character, he's great on the mic. He's an all rounder, seriously.
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Old 02-20-2010, 02:21 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
I think Taz could have been a big star in WWE, but I don't think Ultimo ever stood a chance to see the type of success Rey did.

Maybe if the cruiserweight division was booked stronger in general, he'd have a better chance, but I don't think the WWE crowd really had any interest from day one.
Bull. Crowd went nuts for him in his debut. And I'm not saying Ultimo could have been as successful as Rey in general, but he certainly could have been just as successful within the cruiserweight division. The CW division was booked strong for a long time, when you had Rey, Tajiri, Kidman, and Noble in it.

Reason Ultimo wasn't pushed, is because Vince thought he was getting another Rey Mysterio, just because they both wear masks. I guess the thought of watching some of Ultimo's matches before signing him, didn't occur to Vince.

Even then, it's still ridiculous, as ultimo is the best cruiserweight that company has ever employed, outside of maybe Tigermask, and a fued building to wrestlemania between him and Rey would have kept the division strong. Instead they just stopped trying.
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:41 PM   #24
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I have to agree with Fignuts. Why wouldn't Ultimo Dragon ever stand a chance? I still don't get that. What makes Rey Mysterio so much more "serious" or "marketable" than Ultimo Dragon? If they had brought in Ultimo as a guy hyped as being able to do it all (martial arts, wrestle, fly, etc.), and put the Cruiserweight Title on him, I think he would have done just fine. Instead they stuck him on Velocity.
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
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I don't think Taz stood a chance and that is because of his size. We all know Vince likes the big guys and Taz is short.
Vince does like monsters but there have been plenty of undersized guys who were huge in WWE

Eddie Guerrero was 5'8
Chris Jericho is 5'10
Chris Benoit was 5'9
Davey Boy Smith was 5'9
Owen Hart was 5'10
Jeff Jarrett is 5'10
Rob Van Dam is 5'11


I dunno, judging by that list, I'd be less concerned about Danielson being undersized than I would be him dying in the next 5 years
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:32 PM   #26
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I have to agree with Fignuts. Why wouldn't Ultimo Dragon ever stand a chance? I still don't get that. What makes Rey Mysterio so much more "serious" or "marketable" than Ultimo Dragon? If they had brought in Ultimo as a guy hyped as being able to do it all (martial arts, wrestle, fly, etc.), and put the Cruiserweight Title on him, I think he would have done just fine. Instead they stuck him on Velocity.
you kind of answered your own question as to why Ultimo would of never made it big in WWE. It's because he had a shelf life. Yea, he wins the cruisertitle and then what? That's as high as he would of ever got.

When did Rey Mysterio start becoming a huge supserstar? When he bulked up and when he started talking more. Mysterio started wrestling a heavyweight style and kept a little of his high flying arsenal. It worked.

Please don't blame bad booking on Ultimo's quick exit in the WWE. Almost all the top guys go through bad booking at some point or another. Ultimo could never work the mic and it's very hard to connect with the WWE crowd when you are under a mask and can't work a mic.
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:36 PM   #27
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Just to respond to the Taz stuff: He didn't stand a chance because his body was ruined by the time he got to the WWE.

As far as Miz and Danielson is concerned, this is one of the most intriguing angles the WWE has done in a while. To me it shows that they are going to make Danielson the star of the show and the first one to be pushed to the main shows.
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Old 02-20-2010, 10:44 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Loose Cannon View Post
you kind of answered your own question as to why Ultimo would of never made it big in WWE. It's because he had a shelf life. Yea, he wins the cruisertitle and then what? That's as high as he would of ever got.

When did Rey Mysterio start becoming a huge supserstar? When he bulked up and when he started talking more. Mysterio started wrestling a heavyweight style and kept a little of his high flying arsenal. It worked.

Please don't blame bad booking on Ultimo's quick exit in the WWE. Almost all the top guys go through bad booking at some point or another. Ultimo could never work the mic and it's very hard to connect with the WWE crowd when you are under a mask and can't work a mic.

He wasn't even given a chance ffs. Don't think he had a match past 8 minutes. Given his in-ring talent, that's bad booking, no matter how you look at it.

And don't give me that "well he can't speak english" reason. He and countless other non-english speaking wrestlers became mad over in wcw, because even the casual mainstream wrestling fans that watched wcw(the same type of fans who make up the majority of wwe's audience.) appreciated them for their in-ring skills.

In-ring skills alone may not get someone far in the main event, but the cruiserweight boom in america started because of pure in-ring talent.

Even besides that, ultimo also could have been a tag champ outside of the cruiserweight. I even think his talent was signifigant to even have a run with the U.S. or Intercontinental Title.
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Old 02-20-2010, 11:00 PM   #29
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dude, give it up. We're not talking WCW or ECW or Japan or whatever other Fed. We are talking WWE in 2004. He didn't have a prayer.

And those "non english guys" in WCW didn't become mad over. are you kidding me?? If they were "mad over" then the entire WCW roster around 1996/1997 was mad over. Guys Jericho, Guerrero, Malenko, Syxx and Mysterio carried that division.

Please, the WWF has NEVER pushed cruserweight styles. Why would they start with Ultimo? Because he had a month and a half combined run with the Crusierweight Title?

He didn't have much of a run with the belt because he just wasn't as marketable as the other guys. That's why he reigns/runs were very short.
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Old 02-20-2010, 11:25 PM   #30
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He was also a two-time Television champ. Going up against guys bigger than him, that you seem to think he couldn't do? Funny how they kept giving him all these titles, if he wasn't popular.

Fact is, he wasn't competeing solely for wcw at the time, and he was something of a nomad at the time, wrestling all over the world, so that was likely a much larger factor in his short title reigns.

Also, Juvi wasn't over? La Parka wasn't over? Fuck, Malenko never talked besides his fued with Jericho, and he was well over, before that happened. I'm not talking about freaking stonecold steve austin pops, but certainly big enough to be given a chance as a top cruiserweight.

And there's no way you watched even one episode of wcw if you think that audience is that different from 2004 WWE. Or even WWE right now. They weren't a bunch ROH smarks, who only appreciate great technical wrestling. They were mostly kids, and casual fans. Same type of people that have made up the majority of wwe's audience for years. There is virtually no reason why any cruiserweight who got over then, shouldn't be able to get over in wwe now, other than not getting a chance.

Like I said, it would be one thing if dragon received a couple ppv matches, to show what he can do, and failed to be a hit, but he wasn't even given that. You can debate whether Dragon would have been successful all you want, but you can't debate the fact that he wasn't even given chance to try.
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Old 02-20-2010, 11:27 PM   #31
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He slipped on the grandest stage of them all.
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Old 02-20-2010, 11:30 PM   #32
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Old 02-21-2010, 12:01 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
He was also a two-time Television champ. Going up against guys bigger than him, that you seem to think he couldn't do? Funny how they kept giving him all these titles, if he wasn't popular.

Fact is, he wasn't competeing solely for wcw at the time, and he was something of a nomad at the time, wrestling all over the world, so that was likely a much larger factor in his short title reigns.

Also, Juvi wasn't over? La Parka wasn't over? Fuck, Malenko never talked besides his fued with Jericho, and he was well over, before that happened. I'm not talking about freaking stonecold steve austin pops, but certainly big enough to be given a chance as a top cruiserweight.

And there's no way you watched even one episode of wcw if you think that audience is that different from 2004 WWE. Or even WWE right now. They weren't a bunch ROH smarks, who only appreciate great technical wrestling. They were mostly kids, and casual fans. Same type of people that have made up the majority of wwe's audience for years. There is virtually no reason why any cruiserweight who got over then, shouldn't be able to get over in wwe now, other than not getting a chance.

Like I said, it would be one thing if dragon received a couple ppv matches, to show what he can do, and failed to be a hit, but he wasn't even given that. You can debate whether Dragon would have been successful all you want, but you can't debate the fact that he wasn't even given chance to try.
come on, you're seriously going to bring in the TV Title? Look at the champions during his reign. Except for Regal, those guys were never major players. The Crusier division was miles ahead in terms of drawing/business. The Booker T/Benoit feud saved that belt from becoming worthless at that time.


I'm not even going to try and argue if you think the audience in 96 is the same as today. that's just retarded.


La Parka and Juvi and the rest of the lot were over as crusierweights during a short boom. That entire division was over. It was something new to fans, but again you needed guys like Jericho, Guerrero and Syxx (with the nWo behind him) to carry it because they could work the mic and draw heat.

Most of the other crusiers had a short shelf life. Hence that little thing in 1998 Called the LWO. WCW didn't know what to do with these guys anymore so they stuck them all in one stable as a last desperate attempt to give them a rub

At the end of the day you're argument is Ultimo didn't get over in WWE because he didn't have a chance. There's plenty of guys that have recieved shitty pushes, but have managed to get over. Ultimo was already handicapped by his mask, his Japanese style and he couldn't talk. So it's not a surprise that the WWE saw nothing in him as far as giving him any major run. There's plenty of smart business minded people in WWE and I'm sure if there was money to be made with Ultimo, they would of made it.
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Old 02-21-2010, 12:07 AM   #34
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you Ultimo Dragon marks are the worst of the worst btw. all of you. fucking insane
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Old 02-21-2010, 12:50 AM   #35
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Old 02-21-2010, 12:59 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon View Post
you kind of answered your own question as to why Ultimo would of never made it big in WWE. It's because he had a shelf life. Yea, he wins the cruisertitle and then what? That's as high as he would of ever got.

When did Rey Mysterio start becoming a huge supserstar? When he bulked up and when he started talking more. Mysterio started wrestling a heavyweight style and kept a little of his high flying arsenal. It worked.

Please don't blame bad booking on Ultimo's quick exit in the WWE. Almost all the top guys go through bad booking at some point or another. Ultimo could never work the mic and it's very hard to connect with the WWE crowd when you are under a mask and can't work a mic.
Why not a manager? I don't really see the difference between Ultimo Dragon and Rey Mysterio. They were both masked guys brought in and told to do flashy stuff. Rey Mysterio spent quite a while in the Cruiserweight Division, too, you seem to forget. The difference between them is that Rey won numerous Cruiserweight Titles, while Ultimo Dragon was put on Velocity.

Maybe it's because Dragon refused to take off his mask like Stephanie McMahon wanted; or it was because he just missed out on the era of the smaller wrestler being pushed with a lot more consideration -- but to put the blame of Ultimo Dragon's WWE run entirely on him is a bit silly. I remember actually being interested in watching Dragon at the time; but I couldn't find him. I remember actually partially ordering WrestleMania XX because it would feature Dragon in the Cruiserweight Open and I hadn't seen much of him. I would have been one of the few, but don't say that Dragon was there and got the same chances as Rey Mysterio (who wrestled Kurt Angle in his first WWE PPV match).
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Old 02-21-2010, 01:01 AM   #37
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He looks bad-ass in a suit. I know he trained under him, and respects the fuck out of the man -- but there is something William Regal-ish in the aura Daniel Bryan has. I'm marking out for him in those photos. I just wish that he had his longer hair.
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Old 02-21-2010, 02:08 AM   #38
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you Ultimo Dragon marks are the worst of the worst btw. all of you. fucking insane
I thought ROH marks were the worst??
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Old 02-21-2010, 03:18 AM   #39
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kinda looks like Chris Nowinski in the suit to me
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Old 02-21-2010, 03:48 AM   #40
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come on, you're seriously going to bring in the TV Title? Look at the champions during his reign. Except for Regal, those guys were never major players. The Crusier division was miles ahead in terms of drawing/business. The Booker T/Benoit feud saved that belt from becoming worthless at that time.


I'm not even going to try and argue if you think the audience in 96 is the same as today. that's just retarded.


La Parka and Juvi and the rest of the lot were over as crusierweights during a short boom. That entire division was over. It was something new to fans, but again you needed guys like Jericho, Guerrero and Syxx (with the nWo behind him) to carry it because they could work the mic and draw heat.

Most of the other crusiers had a short shelf life. Hence that little thing in 1998 Called the LWO. WCW didn't know what to do with these guys anymore so they stuck them all in one stable as a last desperate attempt to give them a rub

At the end of the day you're argument is Ultimo didn't get over in WWE because he didn't have a chance. There's plenty of guys that have recieved shitty pushes, but have managed to get over. Ultimo was already handicapped by his mask, his Japanese style and he couldn't talk. So it's not a surprise that the WWE saw nothing in him as far as giving him any major run. There's plenty of smart business minded people in WWE and I'm sure if there was money to be made with Ultimo, they would of made it.
Regal is the guy he beat for the title, fyi. Both reigns.

You can say whatever you want, I don't care. I've seen every major cruiserweight match, from the early wwwf stuff with Tigermask and Dynamite, all the way up to 2005, and the crowd was into every single one of them.
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