The Miz/Danielson

[Loose Cannon]

Originally Posted by Fignuts He was also a two-time Television champ. Going up against guys bigger than him, that you seem to think he couldn't do? Funny how they kept giving him all these titles, if he wasn't popular. Fact is, he wasn't competeing solely for wcw at the time, and he was something of a nomad at the time, wrestling all over the world, so that was likely a much larger factor in his short title reigns. Also, Juvi wasn't over? La Parka wasn't over? Fuck, Malenko never talked besides his fued with Jericho, and he was well over, before that happened. I'm not talking about freaking stonecold steve austin pops, but certainly big enough to be given a chance as a top cruiserweight. And there's no way you watched even one episode of wcw if you think that audience is that different from 2004 WWE. Or even WWE right now. They weren't a bunch ROH smarks, who only appreciate great technical wrestling. They were mostly kids, and casual fans. Same type of people that have made up the majority of wwe's audience for years. There is virtually no reason why any cruiserweight who got over then, shouldn't be able to get over in wwe now, other than not getting a chance. Like I said, it would be one thing if dragon received a couple ppv matches, to show what he can do, and failed to be a hit, but he wasn't even given that. You can debate whether Dragon would have been successful all you want, but you can't debate the fact that he wasn't even given chance to try.

come on, you're seriously going to bring in the TV Title? Look at the champions during his reign. Except for Regal, those guys were never major players. The Crusier division was miles ahead in terms of drawing/business. The Booker T/Benoit feud saved that belt from becoming worthless at that time.


I'm not even going to try and argue if you think the audience in 96 is the same as today. that's just retarded.


La Parka and Juvi and the rest of the lot were over as crusierweights during a short boom. That entire division was over. It was something new to fans, but again you needed guys like Jericho, Guerrero and Syxx (with the nWo behind him) to carry it because they could work the mic and draw heat.

Most of the other crusiers had a short shelf life. Hence that little thing in 1998 Called the LWO. WCW didn't know what to do with these guys anymore so they stuck them all in one stable as a last desperate attempt to give them a rub

At the end of the day you're argument is Ultimo didn't get over in WWE because he didn't have a chance. There's plenty of guys that have recieved shitty pushes, but have managed to get over. Ultimo was already handicapped by his mask, his Japanese style and he couldn't talk. So it's not a surprise that the WWE saw nothing in him as far as giving him any major run. There's plenty of smart business minded people in WWE and I'm sure if there was money to be made with Ultimo, they would of made it.

[Fignuts]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon come on, you're seriously going to bring in the TV Title? Look at the champions during his reign. Except for Regal, those guys were never major players. The Crusier division was miles ahead in terms of drawing/business. The Booker T/Benoit feud saved that belt from becoming worthless at that time. I'm not even going to try and argue if you think the audience in 96 is the same as today. that's just retarded. La Parka and Juvi and the rest of the lot were over as crusierweights during a short boom. That entire division was over. It was something new to fans, but again you needed guys like Jericho, Guerrero and Syxx (with the nWo behind him) to carry it because they could work the mic and draw heat. Most of the other crusiers had a short shelf life. Hence that little thing in 1998 Called the LWO. WCW didn't know what to do with these guys anymore so they stuck them all in one stable as a last desperate attempt to give them a rub At the end of the day you're argument is Ultimo didn't get over in WWE because he didn't have a chance. There's plenty of guys that have recieved shitty pushes, but have managed to get over. Ultimo was already handicapped by his mask, his Japanese style and he couldn't talk. So it's not a surprise that the WWE saw nothing in him as far as giving him any major run. There's plenty of smart business minded people in WWE and I'm sure if there was money to be made with Ultimo, they would of made it.

Regal is the guy he beat for the title, fyi. Both reigns.

You can say whatever you want, I don't care. I've seen every major cruiserweight match, from the early wwwf stuff with Tigermask and Dynamite, all the way up to 2005, and the crowd was into every single one of them.

[Loose Cannon]

Originally Posted by Fignuts Regal is the guy he beat for the title, fyi. Both reigns. You can say whatever you want, I don't care. I've seen every major cruiserweight match, from the early wwwf stuff with Tigermask and Dynamite, all the way up to 2005, and the crowd was into every single one of them.

actually he beat Price Iaukea the first time, but whatever, it was not a well rounded division. Mostly the lower end guys.

Look, Ultimo Dragon was a great worker. One of the greatest workers of all-time, but his style was always going to take him so far in the United States. It's just the way it is and always has been since when pro wreslting started here. Crusierweight matches are fun to watch. They are fast paced, exciting and fans do like them. Not arguing that. But those type of wrstlers will never hold top spots in a company like WWE unless they change thier style completely.

By the way, I think Dragon should of recieved a run with the WWE Lightheavy/Crusier belt. That I will give you. I think Taijiri had it for a while when he was there and that would of been a good feud

[Fignuts]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon actually he beat Price Iaukea the first time, but whatever, it was not a well rounded division. Mostly the lower end guys. Look, Ultimo Dragon was a great worker. One of the greatest workers of all-time, but his style was always going to take him so far in the United States. It's just the way it is and always has been since when pro wreslting started here. Crusierweight matches are fun to watch. They are fast paced, exciting and fans do like them. Not arguing that. But those type of wrstlers will never hold top spots in a company like WWE unless they change thier style completely.

Hell, that's fine. i would never suggest Ultimo hold the top spot in WWE. But he definitely could have filled a role. They teased a fued between him and Rey , who was cruiserweight champ at the time, after his debut match. They should have ran with that, at least until the next PPV. Dragon was at his best in america, when he was the foil to a popular face, be it Malenko, or mysterio. That's really how he should have been brought in. I also agree with Noid, that he should have had a heel manager. That solves the lack of talking on Ultimo's part, to some extent.

And I disagree on the mask being a detriment. When you've got a ton of masked wrestlers like they did in wcw, maybe. But the fact that he was the only other masked wrestler in wwe at the time, and that wwe constantly reminded fans of the importance of the mask, would have just added to the fued with Mysterio. And kids love masks. WWE might not of been as PG as it is now, but there were still millions of kids watching, and you would have made a lot of money on Ultimo masks, if he would have been given a bigger role in the CW division.

I'm not some ant-wwe, ROH-bot. think I've only watched roh about five or six times, tbh. And I will agree that the powers that be in wwe are smart, business minded people, but they are only human. They can make mistakes. I doubt that you have agreed with every decision they've ever made. Well I feel that Ultimo could have been a great heel foil to Rey mysterio.

That's it. Not WWE World Heavyweight Champion. Not the "top guy". I don't think that is asking too much, imo.