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Pirate 18 36.00%
Dude who fucks his sister 15 30.00%
Loose Cannon 7 14.00%
*lol* Wrestling. 10 20.00%
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Old 02-08-2008, 01:19 AM   #41
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I didn't dispute that... you don't sign a contract to be a main eventer, he simply would have stayed on the same or similar terms. That isn't to say he would never have moved up the ladder, that's simply speculation either way.

I'm not ignoring a situation that is detrimental to my point. My point was the the Pirate gimmick was dropped (for whatever reason then), and that isn't comparable to Christian, who was not in any danger of being dropped from the roster, nor of losing his spot or his job.

You made the Christian analogy, not me.
Christian may not have been "dropped," but his momentum was. People were hungry for Cena vs. Christian, and the WWE teased it, but never really delivered. They did a Triple Threat with Chris Jericho, then moved Christian to SmackDown! where they dubbed in boos and had him job to Booker T in Texas to try and kill his heat.

The pirate gimmick didn't last that long, but it was over while it lasted. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing now. Like the WWE has not dropped something good because of an injury, or something similar.
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Old 02-08-2008, 06:24 AM   #42
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There was also quite a pop for the teasing of Tomko/Batista, and they made sure to get Trish out of that group before furthering her push any more.

Really, the Christian situation is hilarious for its own reasons. I don't know whose argument I'm aiding here, I just wanted to elaborate on how hard Christian got boned.
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Old 02-08-2008, 08:20 AM   #43
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You're just arguing for the sake of arguing now. Like the WWE has not dropped something good because of an injury, or something similar.
I'm not "arguing for the sake of arguing", I just wouldn't by any real stretch describe the Pirate gimmick as a "success"... just because you liked it, or you feel the need to defend Burchill, doesn't mean you can't just admit that the Pirate gimmick went nowhere.

What's more, had Vince McMahon "got it" and gotten behind Burchill, you really think a mid-card comedy act would have made it to the top? You really see a guy like "Pirate Paul" headlining WrestleMania (or any PPV for that matter) without uproar from fans, including these forums? As an apparent Burchill fan, you should be happy they dropped the going-nowhere Pirate gimmick and went back to the drawing board.
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Old 02-08-2008, 08:51 AM   #44
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You know, John Cena was a white rapper. They never really straight up dropped it, they just transitioned it to something more main event-ish. I'm not saying the pirate gimmick was a success, but it was doing very well for itself given its position, and Paul was getting some mighty pops. I think it could have gone somewhere with minimal tweaking.

I mean, fuck, "GUY THAT FUCKS HIS SISTER" isn't exactly main-event material, either. It's one thing that they went back to the drawing board, but then they came up with something even less impressive.
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Old 02-08-2008, 08:57 AM   #45
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The Pirate was too cartoony in the modern era to be a main event draw. I like Burchill, and I'd like to see him get a chance at success... the Pirate wasn't the way forward.

The incest dude... well, I'll reserve judgement until it starts to play out, but that doesn't scream success either. But if you don't at least try, then you won't succeed huh?
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Old 02-08-2008, 08:59 AM   #46
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It could well end up ambiguous, or go the way of the West Hollywood Blondes... make everyone think they are doing something disgusting for a while and when the shock value is exhausted, he can turn around and say "hey, she's only my step-sister. Oh, wait... no way... did you think...?"
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Old 02-08-2008, 09:05 AM   #47
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The Pirate was too cartoony in the modern era to be a main event draw.

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Old 02-08-2008, 09:54 AM   #48
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You have a point with the Taker, but his character is much more realistic now than in years past. Okay, they sometimes go down that pathetic route of supernatural angles, whcih personally I cannot stand, but for the most part he's just a sinister badass, not an undead zombie or a satanist or any of the bizarre gimmicks of his past.

The cartoony elements, such as the thunder and lightning etc. are described as mind games played by the Taker, rather than actual unexplained events. Still not fussed on them, either way.
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Old 02-08-2008, 11:05 AM   #49
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And Paul Burchill was a guy dressed like a pirate because his ancestors were pirates.


I don't see the difference.

His swinging on the rope and shit can't possibly be that much worse than 'Taker floating to the ring with druids and shit, rolling the eyes back, walking the ropes, levitating the ring, shooting lightning, etc., etc.
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Old 02-08-2008, 12:21 PM   #50
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It was camp, it was cheesy...

Taker may be a lot of things, but he can hardly be described as "camp".
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Old 02-08-2008, 12:23 PM   #51
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Well... not to his face anyway.
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Old 02-09-2008, 03:27 PM   #52
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It was camp, it was cheesy...

Taker may be a lot of things, but he can hardly be described as "camp".
A man in a tight leotard wearing mascara? Come on, Carl.
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Old 02-09-2008, 03:40 PM   #53
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I'm not "arguing for the sake of arguing", I just wouldn't by any real stretch describe the Pirate gimmick as a "success"... just because you liked it, or you feel the need to defend Burchill, doesn't mean you can't just admit that the Pirate gimmick went nowhere.

What's more, had Vince McMahon "got it" and gotten behind Burchill, you really think a mid-card comedy act would have made it to the top? You really see a guy like "Pirate Paul" headlining WrestleMania (or any PPV for that matter) without uproar from fans, including these forums? As an apparent Burchill fan, you should be happy they dropped the going-nowhere Pirate gimmick and went back to the drawing board.
I'm just going to take what .44 said and post it for my argument:

...it was doing very well for itself given its position, and Paul was getting some mighty pops.

I'm not the only one who enjoyed the character. Other people did, and that was notable during the broadcasts. There were signs in the crowd for the character, and people reacted to it. That was the definition of success I was using. Not generating 5.0 ratings, not main eventing PPVs, merely being an entertaining portion of the show to myself and many others.

I'm not trying to appear disrespectful, or anything, but how can you claim that the character was not a success in those terms. It's almost as if you're acting like the character was not entertaining, and your opinion is all that counts. I'm not even going by my opinion here, as while I was entertained by the character, yes, Burchill could have done more. I'm going by the crowd reactions.

Another thing the character did, was it helped Paul Burchill develop as a performer. I did not think it was nearly as horrible as others did, but when he showed up, he had quite the accent, and his voice was described as people as "awkward" by a lot. The pirate character really helped Burchill get those nerves under control, or whatever was impairing him, and he really developed into a guy that could use body language (outside the context of a match, of course) and his voice much more effectively.

As far as him main eventing goes, even if we did accept that Burchill was never going to main event as a pirate, that was never really the point anyway. My point was not that the sky was the limit was the character, but rather he was just entertaining the role.

I believe that Burchill technically could have ascended with the role. He got some big wins in the character, and was consistently kept strong until that match where he got "injured" by Mark Henry (to mask a real injury, which was the last time we ever saw the character). The character was not meant to be a real pirate, but rather he was just dressing up as a tribute to his ancestor. Granted, the WWE often lose their way with those sort of things, but there could have been some "realistic" tweaking of the gimmick to make it darker, less prominent and eventually have him revert back to being himself.

As far as it being "too campy" goes, I disagree completely. The Undertaker is far more ridiculous. The supernatural shit, as you seem to agree, is just pathetic and annoying, and that is far worse than anything that happened with Burchill. If they used scurvy to explain his absence from the WWE, then we'd have something to talk about.

But yeah, when one of your main acts is a midget running around pretending to be a young child/leprechaun, I don't think a large man dressing up as a pirate as homage to his ancestors is that bad.
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Old 02-09-2008, 03:43 PM   #54
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That's pretty much what I was going with. The character was standing firmly enough in reality that they could have done to Burchill's Pirate what they did to Cena's White Rapper. The "lack of realism" isn't really a valid argument.
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Old 02-10-2008, 12:34 AM   #55
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Mister Noid, I respect you, booker man.

Still, a couple of months as a midcard gimmick which went nowhere is not "success" no matter how much you liked him. Burchill is my fellow countryman (well... nearly), and a very good wrestler on occasion, yet I can't defend that character. We can agree to disagree if you want, and that's fine. I just think he'll be remembered as a "what were they thinking?" gimmick rather than a "wasted opportunity" gimmick down the line. Pirate Paul was no Waylon Mercy.
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Old 02-10-2008, 01:09 AM   #56
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Mister Noid, I respect you, booker man.

Still, a couple of months as a midcard gimmick which went nowhere is not "success" no matter how much you liked him. Burchill is my fellow countryman (well... nearly), and a very good wrestler on occasion, yet I can't defend that character. We can agree to disagree if you want, and that's fine. I just think he'll be remembered as a "what were they thinking?" gimmick rather than a "wasted opportunity" gimmick down the line. Pirate Paul was no Waylon Mercy.
You're one of my favourite posters here, so I hope my disagreeing with you doesn't come off as hostile. I think we just have very different ideas in our heads of what "successful" really means in this situation. I think your version is that he wouldn't have made money or really been able to main event with the character; whereas I am more talking about the harmlessness of the character. I didn't find it particularly insulting or offensive, and it seemed to connect with the crowd.

I will agree with you on your vision of successful, as I don't think the character was meant to become a World Champion, or anything. I don't think that Pirate Paul was a complete flop or anything, though.

I will also say that I am glad Burchill has moved on from the character. This incest thing has a lot of people worried, but you just know Vince is going to love the character, and give Burchill a nice meaty push because of it. Right now, he looks good for being the next Intercontinental Champion. From his pirate gimmick, Burchill managed to extract the skills needed to play a character (I hope), so I think he will do surprisingly well with another obscure character.

I'm actually quite surprised with the characters they've gotten Burchill to play. Show me his early tapes from prior to his WWE signing, and I'd have said that the only way to use the man was to push him as a technical monster, or something of the like. While they got him to play that in the beginning, and in OVW, he's really been given some interesting characters that I'd never have picked out for him.

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I'm hoping that Burchill's ability to at least handle these weird characters thrown at him will increase his stock in the company, help better him as an all-round performer, and make him one of Vince's favourites, and give him a job for a long while, even if he never makes it as a World Champion.
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Old 02-10-2008, 02:01 AM   #57
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I'm thinking he really needs to get over with this new gimmick, or he's going to be... walking the plank? WWE has a plethora of Brits right now, probably the most they've ever had under contract at any one time, or perhaps ever combined! You only get so many chances, whether you're at fault or the booking team are, before you become spoiled goods.

Whether it's a stroke of genius, or WrestleCrap in the making, Incestuous Paul is probably Burchill's last shot at making it in the WWE.
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Old 02-10-2008, 06:19 AM   #58
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The problem is that he "got over" as much as he could with the pirate shtick, barring any adjustments to the gimmick or nudges up the card. People liked him. It didn't matter, really.

Whether he gets over is therefore irrelevant; it's whether or not the bookers decide to do anything with him once he does get over, assuming this gimmick doesn't hold him back any more than the last one did. ...Which is a pretty retarded situation, but that's how WWE rolls.
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Old 02-10-2008, 06:21 AM   #59
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I'm not entirely sold that this is "make it or break it" for Paul, anyhow. Alienoid may be onto something with that "stock in the company" bit, though I wouldn't be too hopeful. From what I've heard, the pirate gig was at least partially his own idea, and his willingness to go out there and do something different may help him hang onto his job those few extra moments.
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Old 02-10-2008, 12:27 PM   #60
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The thing is, being "incestuous" isn't a personality, it's a character trait. They need to establish a personality too, otherwise when the whole shock value of the incest angle subsides, he'll just be another bland midcarder, good worker or not.
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Old 02-10-2008, 12:32 PM   #61
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I think you're confused as to how WWE works.
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Old 02-10-2008, 12:33 PM   #62
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Personality in WWE consists of either "cocky" or "saves Ric Flair."
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Old 02-10-2008, 12:37 PM   #63
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NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)NeanderCarl puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
I know. Vince Russo was a lot of things, but his "shades of grey" philosophy had its merits, which the exception being the fact that, to him, "shades of grey" meant turning once a month.
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Old 02-12-2008, 03:22 AM   #64
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I hope that he keeps elements of his "Ripper" character whilst fucking Katie. I am 85% certain her last name is going to be revealed as "Vick," by the way.
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Old 02-12-2008, 03:09 PM   #65
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Katie Lea... well if you ever wondered what a fitter version of Lita would look like...
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Old 02-12-2008, 05:21 PM   #66
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So, how did Burchill look against Brian Kendrick. I hate the way they've given him the Reverse Swinging Neckbreaker as a finishing move. It's the most generic finisher Burchill has used, and that includes The Royal Mutilation and the Flying Knee Drop.

Brian Kendrick could have very easily taken The C4. Even though you can't have him use it against everyone, the move would have at least gotten a nice reaction from the crowd, and helped some people take notice of Burchill.
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Old 02-12-2008, 05:33 PM   #67
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I'm so sick of "grab your opponent around his neck and drive his face into the mat/your shoulder moves". Just like the DDT in the 80s... there are too many versions now. The Stone Cold Stunner has a lot to answer for.

The Acid Drop, the Diamond Cutter, the Dudley Dog, the RKO, the Stratusfaction, 3-D, the Overdrive, John Morrison's finisher (whatever it's called... I call it the Mulholland Driver), the Ego Trip, Twist of Fate... talk about overkill. Come up with something new!
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Old 02-12-2008, 09:06 PM   #68
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St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)St. Jimmy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
He's ready for the next plateau of his career. After he sticks his cock in his onscreen sister: WWE Will wish him will in TNA/Future Endeavors.
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Old 02-12-2008, 10:12 PM   #69
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I really enjoyed the Pirate gimmick. I thought it was very funny, and he is a good wrestler so it made him even better.
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Old 02-12-2008, 10:16 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
So, how did Burchill look against Brian Kendrick. I hate the way they've given him the Reverse Swinging Neckbreaker as a finishing move. It's the most generic finisher Burchill has used, and that includes The Royal Mutilation and the Flying Knee Drop.
Noid are you bad mouthing The Heros Welcome! I mean The BURCHS Welcome!?

Nah I know where your coming from, The C4 kicks ass, but you always have the people who complain about how unreal it is. I mean I like the Heros Welcome an all, but I just don't understand why everyone who is new to the company or reintroduced as a new character always has to have a variation of a neck breaker.
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Old 02-12-2008, 10:35 PM   #71
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I think the gimmick has promise. Way better than the pirate.
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:20 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heros Welcome View Post
Noid are you bad mouthing The Heros Welcome! I mean The BURCHS Welcome!?

Nah I know where your coming from, The C4 kicks ass, but you always have the people who complain about how unreal it is. I mean I like the Heros Welcome an all, but I just don't understand why everyone who is new to the company or reintroduced as a new character always has to have a variation of a neck breaker.
That's exactly it. I don't mind the move so much, as it ends in an ace crusher position, so is logically as effective as the Diamond Cutter, Stone Cold Stunner, RKO, etc. It's just that every guy who comes into the WWE uses it.
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:23 AM   #73
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That thing where he lifted Kendrick up from his stomach by his arms and stomped on the back of his head was wicked gruesome. I hope he does that every match.
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:07 AM   #74
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Quote:
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That thing where he lifted Kendrick up from his stomach by his arms and stomped on the back of his head was wicked gruesome. I hope he does that every match.
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Old 02-13-2008, 03:43 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeanderCarl View Post
I'm so sick of "grab your opponent around his neck and drive his face into the mat/your shoulder moves". Just like the DDT in the 80s... there are too many versions now. The Stone Cold Stunner has a lot to answer for.

The Acid Drop, the Diamond Cutter, the Dudley Dog, the RKO, the Stratusfaction, 3-D, the Overdrive, John Morrison's finisher (whatever it's called... I call it the Mulholland Driver), the Ego Trip, Twist of Fate... talk about overkill. Come up with something new!
Here, here. And you know what else I'm sick of? All those moves that involve slamming someone to the mat. ORIGINALITY, people.
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Old 02-13-2008, 03:50 AM   #76
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Why can't people just punch kick and grapple around on the mat for a few minutes, thats original, why not try that.
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:24 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
That thing where he lifted Kendrick up from his stomach by his arms and stomped on the back of his head was wicked gruesome. I hope he does that every match.
It's got a cool name, too. The Curb Stomp...
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:49 AM   #78
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Very origional.
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