TNA > ECW (by ECW, I don't mean WWECW)

[Mr. JL]

Seriously... ECW beats out TNA in terms of creating stars just soley based off of Raven and Rob Van Dam together.

I have no doubt in my mind tho, that TNA does the business/investors side of a company better than ECW.

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by Fox Your second sentence shows us how little you understand what happened to ECW, and the third sentence proves how little you understand Paul Heyman.

I stand by the second. Heyman is nuts. He reached a huge untapped base of fans, fans who are also nuts. Don't assume that I'm slamming him by calling him a maniac. And he should never have been involved with ECW's purse strings. If you want to talk about "ECW built up big stars and then lost them--" that is bad business. Especially when you start investing money and time in a guy whos' going to get snapped up by one of the bigger companies. People cried foul when TNA started to clamp down on the non-TNA dates their darlings could work; perhaps ECW would have fared better if they'd done similarly. Probably not, though, ECW was a good metaphor for what happens to the body when too many steroids are introduced; you have far too much mass without the support structure to handle it.

As for the third sentence, look up the meaning of hyperbole. And anyways, I'm sick of hearing about how I don't understand Paul Heyman.

Bottom line, if you take away the insane bumps, flaming tables, people hitting each other with sticks, and RVD making frequent drug references, you aren't left with much, ECW was basically the equivalent of a guerilla force in wrestling, and its demise at a time when its faithful wanted more, more, more, has sealed its place a a legend of wrestling viewed through the rosiest of lenses.

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by legend Yeah, but it started because people loved ECW. People had an emotional attchment to it. No one really has any attachment to TNA

People love Hornswoggle, too.

[Destor]

Originally Posted by DarthTedious He reached a huge untapped base of fans

Just real quick, the audience wasn't so much untapped as it was recently ignored. Subtle distinction but yeah. WWF was doing their uber-cheese and WCW had recently started to follow suit and there was no market for adults in pro-wrestling. ECW became that.

[Destor]

Originally Posted by DarthTedious Bottom line, if you take away the insane bumps, flaming tables, people hitting each other with sticks, and RVD making frequent drug references, you aren't left with much, ECW was basically the equivalent of a guerilla force in wrestling, and its demise at a time when its faithful wanted more, more, more, has sealed its place a a legend of wrestling viewed through the rosiest of lenses.

Also anyone who says ECW was nothing more than Hardocre is a guy who only knows the ECW the WWE has told them about.

[Juan]

Yeah ECW will always have a special place in my heart. I don't think I've watched more than 10 mins of TNA.

[Juan]

Also, comparing TNA to ECW is like comparing ice cream to horse manure.

[McLegend]

Originally Posted by Tedious People love Hornswoggle, too.

This proves nothing.

[Fox]

Originally Posted by Tedious Bottom line, if you take away the insane bumps, flaming tables, people hitting each other with sticks, and RVD making frequent drug references, you aren't left with much, ECW was basically the equivalent of a guerilla force in wrestling, and its demise at a time when its faithful wanted more, more, more, has sealed its place a a legend of wrestling viewed through the rosiest of lenses.

ECW wasn't JUST about those things you named, and you sound like the broken WWE machine that constantly waters down "the new ECW" because "nobody wants to see the old ECW."

Bullshit, man. ECW isn't dead, the spirit of ECW is still alive, and it was almost tangible at the first One Night Stand. Yeah there were insane bumps, flaming tables, people hitting each other with sticks. But there was SO MUCH more than that. There was great wrestling man, between guys like Storm/Jericho, Mysterio/Psychosis, Eddie/Benoit, Tanaka/Awesome. There were innovative spots and intense violence - things you don't see on WWE TV. There was emotion in RVD and Paul Heyman's promos - more emotion and reality and soul than we've seen in any WWE performer for a long, long time. And maybe most importantly there was an energy and a feeling that made all of those fans inside the arena into one voice; one caring, screaming, loving, lusting voice, and that's what ECW was all about.

Get the fuck out of here.

[Fox]

Originally Posted by Tedious As for the third sentence, look up the meaning of hyperbole. And anyways, I'm sick of hearing about how I don't understand Paul Heyman.

Then don't say stupid shit like "Paul would spend 100 billion to hire Hogan."

[Ruien]

ECW may have a special place in everyones hearts here, but how many casual fans acually care about it? Everyone here seems to argue that ECW was better for eithier A)ECW made stars and B) ECW something they liked.

A) The NWO angle WCW did was mainly Hogan, Scott Hall, and Kevin Nash. How many of them were home grown? The NWO thing was what brought WCW over the top. Money to buy talent is better than growing talent and losing it.

B) Maybe to a hardcore fan, ECW was better. But ECW never brought in the casual fan, let it be because of the t.v. deals, low budget, ect. THe fact remains they were not able to obtain them, TNA is doing this.

Also, TNA has Kurt Angle.

[Destor]

ECW had Angle first

Anyway saying how many casuals cared about ECW can be thrown right back into your face with casuals dont care about TNA either.

[Destor]

Also if you want to get into ratings ECW on TNN pulled the same rating OR HIGHER without the stars, so yeah. EAT IT.

[NeanderCarl]

Originally Posted by Fox Your second sentence shows us how little you understand what happened to ECW, and the third sentence proves how little you understand Paul Heyman. ECW was screwed over and over again, despite the stars they created. They made Raven, WCW took him. They showcased amazing stars like Mysterio, Psychosis, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Steve Austin and Mick Foley, and they were lured away to WCW and the WWF. He created a new breed of professional wrestling; one with edge and raw storylines and sex and intense violence, as well as incredible wrestling action, and those ideas were repackaged and presented as WWF Attitude and the WCW Cruiserweight division. They lost Taz. They lost Raven and then they lost Mike Awesome, the then ECW World Champion, and those losses helped dig the hole ECW fell into. They were also screwed by TNN, who fucked with their show when they finally got national broadcasting, completely ruining the experience for any potential new viewers or fans (some of us may remember the pattern of 5 Minute Commerial - 2 Minutes of ECW - 5 Minute Commercial - 2 Minutes of ECW - etc, etc). Paul did everything he could to keep the company afloat despite all of these troubles, but when it came to money, there wasn't anything more he could do. He kept losing his biggest draws and as a result, lost parts of the audience, and the revenue that they would have intaken. But that's not entirely his fault. Also, Heyman would NEVER have hired Hogan. Don't be fucking daft.

Tough luck. You build stars and eventually they leave. That's the business. If Heyman had been a viable businessman, he could have promoted a company that would make enough money that he could afford to lock his stars into longterm contracts. He certainly had the knack for building them, but never the capital to keep them. That's his own problem.

Oh, and the fact that Heyman would "NEVER" have hired the biggest drawing card in the history of the business just goes to show why the original ECW is now dead and buried.

[NeanderCarl]

In his defence, TNA has lost about $40m in five years, whereas ECW went bankrupt for just $9m after being in business nearly double that amount of time.

So technically, from a business perspective ECW > TNA.

Of course, down the line if TNA makes some serious moolah, that $40m will be seen as a necessary evil in order to build a successful business.

$40m spent building a succesful and profitable company in the long term > $9m spunked on short term notoriety and to have a select section of the crowd chant your three intials at profitable shows promoted by rival companies.