IGN: Top 10 Moves to Put 360 Back on Top

[darkpower]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Except, as we've already established before, month to month sales won't catch them up any time in the life span of the 360.

Like you usually do, you make an answer into a question. I've already answered this point. You just didn't like the answer you got so you repeated the question as you not accepting such an answer for your failed reasons.

I can think of a few.

And I'm sure I already addressed them elsewhere.

That's nice. Live revenues, attach rates, and so on are still factors, even if you consider the most damning argument off limits.

And is yet to dent the major disparity.

Well, they're doing SOMETHING right or they wouldn't be selling boxes. And the dropping of the 360 price tag is showing a bit of desperation on MS. Why?

And remember, they had a one year head start (which I already mentioned yet you completely ignored), and MS probably isn't going to be able to charge for XBL for long.

Trust me, this M2M sales thing isn't hurting Sony any, and the M2M difference is continuing to get larger.

The problem with heavy hitters being, everyone has them. Nintendo and Microsoft have them too, which will shift things as well.

But there is a such thing to consider as how MANY heavy hitters you have. I mentioned that MS only has one main IP that everyone is waiting for, Gears of War 2) while Sony has at least 3 (maybe 4 or 5 depending on if you count Killzone 2 as one and Home as another) coming out this year or very early next year. I can't think of anything Nintendo is coming out with other than Wii Music (and we all know what reception they recieved from that). We've established that Sony has the strongest overall lineup of games for 2008, there was a reason we brought that into the conversation.

Except the margins aren't constant. A large margin in the most recent month tracked doesn't mean an upward pattern. So yeah. If they keep increasing the margin....But that's a presumption that goes beyond the current evidence. Even assuming current rate of growth doesn't change, price cuts don't impact sales, etc., we're looking at a long time before this is an issue.

Well, you go to MS and tell THEM that they didn't need the price cut they implimented, since you probably know more than they do. And then try to tell anyone else outside of your own little world that Sony didn't find their feet and got on the ball just suddenly. You'll see that you'll be outnumbered.

It's kind of like compund interest. Sure, eventually fifty bucks will become a million, but....

So...you're saying it's not possible that anyone can do that quickly? I'm not getting how you came to the conclusion that no one can just suddenly get a spike of revenue or a spike in sales and then keep it going. Obviously you're also predicting that everything will be right in the world again in August! Don't let me stop you from dreaming what you want. Just be advised that you're welcome to come back to reality whenever you're ready to join us.

The rumours that have been going around since the 360 came out? Fuck, you just said "some people" are calling it what it's been called since roughly the launch of the 360.

And you'd think they would be dead by now, right? The same rumors that have been echoed by pretty much every other gaming blog site lately?

Such rumours didn't hurt sales of the PS2. The PS3 and 360 didn't really hurt sales of the PS2. Yet, for some reason, logic dictates it will have an impact here? Nah. These are hypotheticals thrown out to demonstrate an extreme scenario in which there might be an issue.

So...Microsoft's sudden ignorance of the original XBox's existence when they introduced the 360 never happened? They remember how MS treated that situation.

People are already talking rumours of a PS4. That doesn't seem to factor into your logic. Nor is the fact that the potential for a RRoD proof console (Newer versions of the 360) didn't slow down sales.

It didn't factor into my logic because of the 10-year life cycle claim that came from Sony....or did you forget that?

That was rather slanted.

That was not a valid counterpoint to anything I said that made you want to respond that way.

Assuming they can consistantly widen the gap, yet to be demonstrated. Also assuming the fall lineup of games, price cuts and Holiday season all have no impact.

You're also assuming Sony won't answer the price cut or that no one will be interested in LBP or Resistence 2 (or, for that matter, a free online service or the Home service). And, as I mentioned up above, what other major IP do you see being a system seller for the 360. Remember that LBP is going to come out just before the holiday shopping season begins. The game will be fresh in the minds of many.

The problem is, you're assuming a lot, and ignoring a lot.

Pot, meet kettle.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by darkpower Like you usually do, you make an answer into a question.

I didn't. I made a statement of rebuttal.

I've already answered this point. You just didn't like the answer you got so you repeated the question as you not accepting such an answer for your failed reasons.

I'm not the one who tried to change the topic when it was brought up. I'm not repeating a question, because it's not a question. I'm not repeating it because I didn't like the answer. I'm repeating it because it's still valid.

And I'm sure I already addressed them elsewhere.

Replace "addressed" as "dismissed with bias" and you're probably correct.

And the dropping of the 360 price tag is showing a bit of desperation on MS. Why?

Wait...This, a move done by most manufacturers with almost all systems, is a move of desperation? Sweet.

And remember, they had a one year head start (which I already mentioned yet you completely ignored), and MS probably isn't going to be able to charge for XBL for long.

I will answer you the same way I would a "truther."

I "ignored" the statement in the same way I "ignore" the possibilities that a Vogon Contructor Fleet might have used the WTC as a test for their demolition of Earth to make way for a new Hyperspace bypass.

I should probably ignore the unfounded speculation that Microsoft "probably" won't be able to keep charging for long. However, if it'll stop you from bitching, that is unfounded spexulation.

But there is a such thing to consider as how MANY heavy hitters you have.

Right. And if you discount the apps one group has and stack the other....

I mentioned that MS only has one main IP that everyone is waiting for, Gears of War 2) while Sony has at least 3 (maybe 4 or 5 depending on if you count Killzone 2 as one and Home as another) coming out this year or very early next year.

For example.

I can't think of anything Nintendo is coming out with other than Wii Music (and we all know what reception they recieved from that). We've established that Sony has the strongest overall lineup of games for 2008, there was a reason we brought that into the conversation.

Wow. You're extending this to Nintendo not having anything else? Well, that certainly doesn't hurt your argument.

By the way, since Hasney mentioned the Attach Rates, NPD included TWO Pack-In titles for the Wii when factoring those numbers, dropping the actual numbers from 5.x to 3.x. Oh look. The numbers aren't that good when we dishonestly stack our deck. Nintendo also tries to throw in WiiWare into their RETAIL numbers.

Well, you go to MS and tell THEM that they didn't need the price cut they implimented, since you probably know more than they do.

Speaking of desperation...Now you're trying to make stuff up to make me look like I'm wrong.

But since you opened that door, isn't that the exact sort of attitude you're taking when you argue that Microsoft probably can't continue to charge for live? Are you going to presume to tell them whether or not they can charge for Live?

No, you're not presuming to tell them that, nor am I presuming to tell them the price cuts are unnecessary. That isn't the point. Please don't make up arguments. If you don't understand, ask for clarifcation, rather than fabricating.

So...you're saying it's not possible that anyone can do that quickly?

No, but we are talking the long game here.

Obviously you're also predicting that everything will be right in the world again in August!

Yes. That's exactly what I'm predicting. Oh, wait....

Don't let me stop you from dreaming what you want.

Says the guy who's talking about speculation against evidence....

Just be advised that you're welcome to come back to reality whenever you're ready to join us.

The reality you've fabricated in which analogous spikes immediately translate into a diamond future?

k.

And you'd think they would be dead by now, right? The same rumors that have been echoed by pretty much every other gaming blog site lately?

I don't suppose you realise how stupid that sounds...Nah. Be too easy.

An unfounded rumour continuing suddenly validates it?

So...Microsoft's sudden ignorance of the original XBox's existence when they introduced the 360 never happened? They remember how MS treated that situation.

Didn't say that.

I love how "they remember." It's vague, it's pointless, it's not born out by a loss of sales in 2007, when it was also being covered by all the blog sites.

AKA: "Hey Rocky, watch me pull another rabbit out of my hat!"

It didn't factor into my logic because of the 10-year life cycle claim that came from Sony....or did you forget that?

And MS execs have bandied about 2012...Hypocritical?

Of course, Sony is completely trustworthy and this is 100% feasible....Not to mention the public will buy fact over rumour...Right?

The 10 year plan will make the PS3 severely dated unless they let us upgrade more than just the HDD. The BD drive is already sorely dated.

That was not a valid counterpoint to anything I said that made you want to respond that way.

Except your statement was slanted. Faux news, DP. You're very quick to stoop to their level, despite BAWWWWing about them.

You're also assuming Sony won't answer the price cut or that no one will be interested in LBP or Resistence 2 (or, for that matter, a free online service or the Home service).

I'm not assuming the latter. Thanks for making that up. However, in terms of the former, Sony has explicitly stated they won't be answering the price cut, as has Nintendo.

Granted, I don't believe Sony as blindly and faithfully as you do, but doesn't that undercut the whole thing you said earlier about Sony's ten year plan if they do end up answering the price cuts?

Beyond that, it's not exactly the greatest of arguments, since Sony's still taking a bath, and reducing the price will have an impact on more than just sales....Or does that magically go away?

Pot, meet kettle.

You can say it, but since I'm not actually assuming...

Well, you're building a house of cards.

So you're saying that them wanting to use as much of 50GBs as possible is lazy? I don't get your logic of how developing on Blu Ray constitutes as being lazy

That's great, but since it's not what I said (I said it wasn't needed, as opposed to the argument of desirability you're now trying to attribute to me), arguments of redundancy and not getting my logic are kind of pointless. You're right. You don't get my logic. You then went on to make an unrelated argument. Well, more a tangentially related than anything, but fails to address me properly.

or the logic in developing for a more powerful console or making that console the lead platform of development is being lazy.

I want to know what orfice you're pulling these out of.

You're basically saying that anyone that wants to develop for the PS3 is lazy? Talk about making a pure fanboy comment.

We agree. That's a pure fanboy statement.

However comma, I neither said it nor "basically" said it. You had to practically completely rewrite my statement in order to arrive at it.

I'm going to have to echo Hasney's "ignorant or stupid" comment. I'm not sure which is the sadder possibility: That you feel the need to lie to make an argument, or that you might actually believe what you claim I said is even remotely accurate.

[darkpower]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight I didn't. I made a statement of rebuttal.

So...you insulting me and anyone who dares to disagree with you (that you do often to people that CAN counterpoint you and choose to do so) is rebutting? Wow! That's a new definition.

I'm not the one who tried to change the topic when it was brought up. I'm not repeating a question, because it's not a question. I'm not repeating it because I didn't like the answer. I'm repeating it because it's still valid.

You keep telling yourself that. Doesn't make it anymore true if you repeat it over and over again so people believe it IS true.

That and you also go into bully mode when you do start getting pwned. The only problem is that I have NO problem having this debate.

Replace "addressed" as "dismissed with bias" and you're probably correct.

You take being fair to all consoles and not trying to reach for something to use to say "yeah, here's WHY you're point doesn't matter" as "dismissing with bias"?

Wait...This, a move done by most manufacturers with almost all systems, is a move of desperation? Sweet.

Dude, it is when it comes just when your console gets ass raped by 20k consoles during the month of July. That and way to completely ignore that I said that they have no need to BE in desperation mode yet since they don't have too much TO be worried about. However, this seems to be them acting desperate when they don't need to be.

I will answer you the same way I would a "truther."

Funny, because I've yet to see you actually succeed at doing that, either.

I "ignored" the statement in the same way I "ignore" the possibilities that a Vogon Contructor Fleet might have used the WTC as a test for their demolition of Earth to make way for a new Hyperspace bypass.

Not that I've ever HEARD that conspiracy, but way to bring 9.11 into this? What's the next thing you'll try to invoke into this, HIROSHIMA?!

I should probably ignore the unfounded speculation that Microsoft "probably" won't be able to keep charging for long. However, if it'll stop you from bitching, that is unfounded spexulation.

NO ONE SAID IT WAS FACT YET, YOU DUMBASS!! It is something that the actual article I posted to START this thread said, and it seems like most of the people on this thread had agreed to that point. It is OPINION that MS SHOULD consider that. No one knows if they ARE or if they will think about it. Apparently you have problems seeing the difference between opinion and fact. Why am I not surprised?

Right. And if you discount the apps one group has and stack the other....

Again, no one has said that MS didn't have apps this year, but heavy hitters? Can you NAME any other heavy hitters besides GOW2 and Fable 2 that MS has coming the remainder of this year that will be system sellers?

Wow. You're extending this to Nintendo not having anything else? Well, that certainly doesn't hurt your argument.

Jesus, man, you're really reaching to find a reason to attack my argument now. Again, PLEASE name something else coming from Ninendo that is SOO good that we should be excited about (and this is hurting me saying that because I do also own a Wii, not that you could've forgotten that, and I wish they DID have a better lineup this year)? The only thing they really had was Wii Music, and it wasn't recieved well at ALL!

But I see what you did here. You took something that we all agreed on and twisted it in order to fit into your argument. You're doing whatever you can to hold onto your argument that has lost any and all cred from anyone that isn't in your little circle of friends that will defend you no matter what.

Again, tell me something I should be excited about from Nintendo, because I'm not sure where you heard this other crazy, killer app that blew everyone away!

By the way, since Hasney mentioned the Attach Rates, NPD included TWO Pack-In titles for the Wii when factoring those numbers, dropping the actual numbers from 5.x to 3.x. Oh look. The numbers aren't that good when we dishonestly stack our deck. Nintendo also tries to throw in WiiWare into their RETAIL numbers.

So...you're getting your numbers from where, VGChatz.com? Last time I checked, it would BE the Wii that has the biggest install base because they have slaughtered just about EVERYTHING ever since it came out.

Speaking of desperation...Now you're trying to make stuff up to make me look like I'm wrong. But since you opened that door, isn't that the exact sort of attitude you're taking when you argue that Microsoft probably can't continue to charge for live? Are you going to presume to tell them whether or not they can charge for Live? No, you're not presuming to tell them that, nor am I presuming to tell them the price cuts are unnecessary. That isn't the point. Please don't make up arguments. If you don't understand, ask for clarifcation, rather than fabricating.

First, where the hell did I ever change your argument or make you look like you're wrong? You do such a good job doing that yourself that I don't think I could help you on that any better than you can.

And plus....are you saying that IGN was wrong for making that opinion? Again, this is just an opinion. It's an opinion I agree with, and apparently a few other people ON HERE (in case you're looking for them) do, as well. Are you saying we're not allowed to EXPRESS that opinion? It's a well thought out opinion based upon how much improvement the competition has done to their own network. Sounds like you're having issue that people will believe something that you don't want them to believe.

No, but we are talking the long game here.

Yeah, of course we are, but have you seen how quickly things are changing right now? Did anyone expect Sony to even find their feet, much less have the success they are now getting? Of course you didn't, nor did you ever want them to from the sounds of it! Your only response to someone making any pro-Sony argument is "you're loving Sony" and all of that.

Yes. That's exactly what I'm predicting. Oh, wait....

Hold on, so you're actually saying that you WANT MS to get the lead back? You actually told us that Sony not having THAT much of a console win for a monthly sales figure would mean the world would be right? So, how are we NOT supposed to believe that you have some agenda? Oh wait, you don't, you're just making (slanted) logic (spun so you can believe what you want and then no one else is allowed to call you on).

Says the guy who's talking about speculation against evidence....

I'm arguing with some guy who's so used to getting the upper hand on every argument that when he doesn't, he gets so asshurt that he begins bullying and immaturity, to the point that others react to you the same way (thereby getting exactly what you want, anyway).

And you're talking about facts vs. opinions. It IS a fact that Sony's PS3 sold 20k more units than the 360 for the month of July. It's OPINION that we think MS should drop the charge on XBox Live (by the way, why would you bitch if they DID drop that charge? That's beneficial for you, right, and it would make the service even MORE attractive since it's supposed to be so much better, right?). It's very simple, really.

The reality you've fabricated in which analogous spikes immediately translate into a diamond future? k.

Soooooo...you can back up anything YOU'RE saying, or are we just supposed to say it's just "simple logic" that everyone should understand? Remember, YOU'RE the one interjecting half of these arguments into this conversation, so you might want to start giving us links and shit to back it up (oh, and if you want ME to do that, I'm more than willing). You say it's common logic what you say, so let's see these figures, these articles that back up anything you're saying!

I don't suppose you realise how stupid that sounds...Nah. Be too easy. An unfounded rumour continuing suddenly validates it?

So...why is it not dead yet? Why don't you go find these evil people that keep "spreading" this rumor and tell them why they are so wrong? Just don't come crying to us when you come back saying that they ate you alive because you didn't have anything to back up your claim as to WHY you believe that or why they shouldn't be allowed to express THEIR opinion?

Think about this for a minute: If you got a rumor that they deny (and of COURSE MS is going to deny it after the disaster that was the XBox to 360 transition where they pissed off EVERYONE by dropping XB1 support like a bad habit, why would they want to lose customers that were butthurt over that before but decided to give them a second chance with the 360 by making them think it will happen again so soon), but then someone else keeps hearing it and keeps spreading it, they're obviously SOME reason why the rumor doesn't die. Now, it's either they are stupid enough to keep spreading it, somoene at MS has too much time on their hands to fuck with people, or there is something MS is telling us. Tell me where this doesn't make sense to you.

Didn't say that. I love how "they remember." It's vague, it's pointless, it's not born out by a loss of sales in 2007, when it was also being covered by all the blog sites. AKA: "Hey Rocky, watch me pull another rabbit out of my hat!"

Let me go back to the quote you had said that made me respond that way to begin with:

Such rumours didn't hurt sales of the PS2. The PS3 and 360 didn't really hurt sales of the PS2. Yet, for some reason, logic dictates it will have an impact here? Nah. These are hypotheticals thrown out to demonstrate an extreme scenario in which there might be an issue.

Now, think about this. The reason why the PS2's sales weren't hurt: The PS2 was STILL BEING SUPPORTED BY SONY! Hell, they're refusing TO end support for it. How will sales stop if you keep fueling the fire?

On the other hand, what happened to the original XB1 when MS introduced the 360? Did you hear anything else from that? MS drops support for the original XB1 (and for that matter, wanted to drop all support for WinXP earlier this year before people spoke up), and pretends the 360 is the only system they ever made. Now, if that was YOU who was not ready to commit to a new system with them doing that crap, how would YOU be feeling? This is not an extreme scenario because it's ALREADY HAPPENED, and MS has this reputation to just drop support for their old products to force people to commit to purchasing their newest stuff. So...where should anyone NOT be afraid that if and when MS announces a 720 that they will do the exact same damn thing again? How are you so confident?

And MS execs have bandied about 2012...Hypocritical? Of course, Sony is completely trustworthy and this is 100% feasible....Not to mention the public will buy fact over rumour...Right? The 10 year plan will make the PS3 severely dated unless they let us upgrade more than just the HDD. The BD drive is already sorely dated.

Read above.

And let's talk about this: Sony is so unbelievable and everyone takes them with a grain of salt, but MS has yet to tell a lie or blow up the truth in their favor, right? So, basically, no one is ever believable EXCEPT for MS? Having a hard time digesting THAT! And yes, you DID say this because you're the one bringing this 2012 thing up.

And how is the BD drive outdated? A BD player that Sony had made is outdated in playing a format that Sony made! Not sure of the sense of that.

Except your statement was slanted. Faux news, DP. You're very quick to stoop to their level, despite BAWWWWing about them.

And your word is the gospel of truth, right? We're all supposed to just not believe anything else except whatever you read to make you come up with these arguments, huh? And you're saying I'M the one slanting?

I'm not assuming the latter. Thanks for making that up. However, in terms of the former, Sony has explicitly stated they won't be answering the price cut, as has Nintendo. Granted, I don't believe Sony as blindly and faithfully as you do, but doesn't that undercut the whole thing you said earlier about Sony's ten year plan if they do end up answering the price cuts? Beyond that, it's not exactly the greatest of arguments, since Sony's still taking a bath, and reducing the price will have an impact on more than just sales....Or does that magically go away?

You don't have to say anything in order to make anyone IMPLY anything. And I don't blindly believe in anything (how are you coming up with half of these arguments you use to begin with?).

Again, to what you DID say:

Assuming they can consistantly widen the gap, yet to be demonstrated. Also assuming the fall lineup of games, price cuts and Holiday season all have no impact.

Now, think, what DOES come out for Sony this holiday season? LBP (which is slated to BE a system seller, keyword, slated), Resistence 2 (anyone who got word on the success of R1 will be interested), Home (which is getting more and more press. Use the Google for once), or anything else that they would be able to come out with. Also, you're not taking into the account the amount of people getting a HDTV for the Digital TV conversion, which would make someone want to buy a Blu Ray player, which in turn will want to get the most valuable and cheapest Blu Ray Player, and guess what that will be?

What does MS have to compete with these advantages Sony could have going for them? Yes, they have the price cut that makes the Arcade version the cheapest out of the three system (which make it more attractive for someone wanting a cheap new system to buy for their kids or someone that won't give a shit about the hard drive). But they really don't have much of anything else.

Now, you choosing to completely ignore ALL of that makes us tell something about what you wanted to tell us. Just because you don't type it up doesn't mean you weren't trying to make us see what you really wanted to type up.