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Old 02-03-2010, 02:53 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Show Off View Post
I'll take a quasi-scientific approach... I'll make a top 5 list in each of the qualaties that I think make a pro-wrestler the best... Then I'll give points to each position 5 points to #1, 4 points to #2... and so on and so forth...

The qualaties are...

Most Charismatic
Best In-Ring Performer (from a Technical Stand Pouint)
Best In-Ring Performer (from a Story Telling Stand Point)
Best Mic-Worker
Biggest Draw
Willingness/Capability to Play Heel or Face

Most Charismatic
1. The Rock (5 pts.)
2. Ric Flair (4 pts.)
3. Steve Austin (3 pts.)
4. Shawn Michaels (2 pts.)
5. Hulk Hogan (1 pt.)

Best In-Ring Performer (from a Technical Stand Point)
1. Kurt Angle (5)
2. Bret Hart (4)
3. Shawn Michaels (3)
4. Ric Flair (2)
5. Ricky Steamboat (1)

Best In-Ring Performer (from a Story Telling Stand Point)
1. Steve Austin (5)
2. Ric Flair (4)
3. Jake Roberts (3)
4. Mick Foley (2)
5. Triple H (1)

Best Mic Worker
1. Mick Foley (5)
2. Roddy Piper (4)
3. Ric Flair (3)
4. The Rock (2)
5. Chris Jericho (1)

Biggest Draw
1. Hulk Hogan (5)
2. Steve Austin (4)
3. Bruno Sammartino (3)
4. The Rock (2)
5. Andre the Giant (1)

Willingness/Capacity to Play Heel or Face
1. Ric Flair (5)
2. Triple H (4)
3. Kurt Angle (3)
4. Chris Jericho (2)
5. The Rock (1)

Overall (with points)
1. Ric Flair (18 points)
2. Steve Austin (12 points)
3. The Rock (10 points)
4. Kurt Angle (8 points)
5. Mick Foley (7 points)

6. Hulk Hogan (6 points)
7t. Shawn Michaels (5 points)
7t. Triple H (5 points)
9t. Bret Hart (4 points)
9t. Roddy Piper (4 points)
11t. Bruno Sammartino (3 points)
11t. Chris Jericho (3 points)
11t. Jake Roberts (3 points)
14t. Andre the Giant (1 point)
14t. Ricky Steamboat (1 point)

So to answer your question... Ric Flair.
This.
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Old 02-03-2010, 03:28 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
Because he's on an in-ring list of any kind and Kurt Angle isn't.
Angle was my #1 in-ring performer from a technical stand point.

Foley was a better story teller than Angle was.
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Old 02-03-2010, 03:29 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
Mind Games was probably Foley's best match. You still have to give some of that credit to Shawn Michaels, though.
Of course, I'm not taking anything away from Michaels... If I expanded the list of best in-ring performers from a storytelling stand point Shawn would be like #6 or #7.
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Old 02-03-2010, 03:32 PM   #44
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SIDENOTE: I like this kind of discussion. Nobody's being a dickhead and everybody's bringing up decent points.
It is nice when people recognize one anothers right to opinions.
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Old 02-03-2010, 03:38 PM   #45
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Even though your opinion is WRONG!!!!

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Old 02-03-2010, 04:17 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Show Off View Post
Willingness/Capacity to Play Heel or Face
1. Ric Flair (5)
2. Triple H (4)
3. Kurt Angle (3)
4. Chris Jericho (2)
5. The Rock (1)
Why isn't Austin on this list? Surely 2001 showed he can and will play both heel and face?

I know it's all relative but I always thought that one of Austin's biggest strengths
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Old 02-03-2010, 04:48 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Joesgonnakillyou View Post
Why isn't Austin on this list? Surely 2001 showed he can and will play both heel and face?

I know it's all relative but I always thought that one of Austin's biggest strengths
Not nearly as good as the other five men on the list...
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:48 PM   #48
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Not nearly as good as the other five men on the list...
Being a huge mark of Canadian workers, SCSA is still > Jericho
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:58 PM   #49
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It's really unfortunate that Chris Benoit did what he did because I think he would be without much of a doubt at the forefront of this discussion otherwise.
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:21 PM   #50
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yes because benoit was AMAZING on the mic.
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:34 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicky Fives View Post
Being a huge mark of Canadian workers, SCSA is still > Jericho
Not in the ability and willingness to swich from heel to face or visa versa. Which is what I was refering to.
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:37 PM   #52
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Surprised no one (ruh oh) has mentioned Sting..
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:43 PM   #53
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Not nearly as good as the other five men on the list...
HHH is a horrible face
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:45 PM   #54
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He's over and all but fuck his face characters have always been so generic and dull. Randy Orton learned from the best.
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Old 02-03-2010, 07:47 PM   #55
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Not in the ability and willingness to swich from heel to face or visa versa. Which is what I was refering to.
I respectfully disagree.....
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Old 02-03-2010, 08:00 PM   #56
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That quasi-scientific lists doesnt mention Benoit or Malenko in the technical wrestler's list? Great effort though!

I would definitely say Angle, even when he played a goof during the first few weeks of the Invasion Angle (See what I did there?) he was over with the crowd!
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Old 02-03-2010, 09:56 PM   #57
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I'd like to know what your lists would be for some of those attributes. All these things are very subjective and it'd be interesting how different my opinions are from popular opinion.
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Old 02-03-2010, 10:12 PM   #58
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Kurt Angle
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Old 02-03-2010, 10:21 PM   #59
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Kurt Angle is the whole package. In every single area of judgement he stands out.

For me:
1: Kurt Angle - for above reason (see ABT's post on first page)
2: HBK - close second, also a great all-rounder, just not QUITE as good as Kurt.
3: Bret Hart - Another solid all-rounder, but due to less time in the business and slightly less charisma, he gets third.
4: Steve Austin - Purely because of an exceptional character and being involved in so much he gets this spot, same thing for...
5: The Rock

If I was to judge this 'fairer' and strictly from an all round point of view, Y2J and Flair would complete my list. However, I looked at it from the perspective of an imaginary scoring system, where points are given for each category, and Austin and Rock would score so many points on charisma, memories, feuds, mic skills, storytelling etc, that they'd break my top 5.
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Old 02-03-2010, 10:22 PM   #60
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By all round point of view I mean like Show Off's system
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Old 02-03-2010, 10:50 PM   #61
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It's really unfortunate that Chris Benoit did what he did because I think he would be without much of a doubt at the forefront of this discussion otherwise.
I think it's unfortunate because he ended the life of his own wife and child and then was too chickenshit to face the music.
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Old 02-03-2010, 10:57 PM   #62
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Benoit wouldn't be involved anyway.

He'd probably scrape Top 20 for me.
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:05 PM   #63
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Eddie Guerrero would be pretty high on my list too. Obviously a tremendous wrestler, great on the mic, charismatic, over etc

That whole "ability to turn heel/face when he wants" to thing is Eddie's playground. He was the most hated heel in the WWE in 2005 during his Rey feud then within two weeks was one of the most over faces on Smackdown feuding with Batista.
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:10 PM   #64
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Shawn Michaels over 20 years of amazing matches and angles, and always being awesome.
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:12 PM   #65
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I feel like just a few more years would have moved Eddie way up the list for me. He had just arrived in the main event, and there was a lot left for him to do at the top. He could have told some great stories/had some great maches with Shawn, HHH, Edge and the newer guys like Orton and Cena.
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:14 PM   #66
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Hogan
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:18 PM   #67
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You can make an argument for The Rock, but nobody will ever have the name recognition and status Hogan does. He's the Babe Ruth of Professional wrestling. Everyone knows Hulk Hogan.
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:23 PM   #68
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Not disagreeing with you, but everyone also knows The Rock. I'd say he established his name almost as much as Hogan did through wrestling.
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:24 PM   #69
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I said you can make an argument for Rock. Those two are 1 and 2
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:24 PM   #70
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Just re-read your post, namely "you could make an argument for The Rock". Never mind
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:25 PM   #71
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Fuck you and your hyper speed reply
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:26 PM   #72
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The Rock is equal to Hogan in terms of being known. But thats because of his movies, Hogan is probably more known via wrestling. Nothing against Rocky, he will go down as one of the biggest and most important wrestlers of all-time and is way better than Hogan.

Also everyone who knows Hogan probably knows Stone Cold too...
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:26 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Loose Cannon View Post
I said you can make an argument for Rock. Those two are 1 and 2
Austin?

Didnt Vince say that Austin is the biggest draw in WWE history? Or broke all the records for merch, ratings, box office etc
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:26 PM   #74
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Hogan
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:27 PM   #75
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Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:29 PM   #76
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Austin?

Didnt Vince say that Austin is the biggest draw in WWE history? Or broke all the records for merch, ratings, box office etc
Austin is #3 for me. Hogan lasted a lot longer and stayed on top a lot longer then Austin. Yea I know some of you will bitch at me that Hogan was all about politics and that's why he stayed on top. Well he did it and he still made money in two different eras. Rock is ahead of Austin because he was just as popular outside wrestling as he was inside wrestling. He rose above the business
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:32 PM   #77
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The Rock is equal to Hogan in terms of being known. But thats because of his movies, Hogan is probably more known via wrestling. Nothing against Rocky, he will go down as one of the biggest and most important wrestlers of all-time and is way better than Hogan.

Also everyone who knows Hogan probably knows Stone Cold too...
that's bullshit. you think the 45 year old mom who watched Hogan Knows Best knows who Steve Austin is?

You think all the fans of Rocky watched wrestling from 1998-2001? Totally disagree

Everyone knows Austin inside wrestling, but certainly not outside
Last edited by Loose Cannon; 02-03-2010 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:37 PM   #78
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by the way, my wife knows Hogan only through Mr Nanny and Hogan Knows Best. I told her to get me the last Austin DVD for Christmas a couple years ago and she had no clue who he was. Laugh if you will, but there you go.
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:38 PM   #79
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that's bullshit. you think the 45 year old mom who watched Hogan Knows Best knows who Steve Austin is?

You think all the fans of Rocky watched wrestling from 1998-2001? Totally disagree

Everyone knows Austin inside wrestling, but certainly not outside
Well if her kids watched wrestling in the 90s then yeah probably
Are we talking about simply being "known" here or numbers? Because Vince has said that Austin is the biggest draw in history (it was when he was introducing Austin for The Condemned premiere or some WM 21, cant remember which one). If were talking about just being known then there isnt really any way to know for sure but Hogan probably has the edge, although I dont think by much.
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:39 PM   #80
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Everyone knows Austin inside wrestling, but certainly not outside

That is simply not true. Austin was bigger than the business. He definitely is known mainstream, maybe not as much as Hogan or Rock but people who did not watch wrestling or werent big fans of it known Austin. Same with DX. Anyone who went to Junior High or Elementary in the 90s knows what "suck it" is and where it comes from
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