Project Natal

[Kalyx triaD]

Something tells me Will Wright will use this better than most.

[Drakul]

Originally Posted by Kotaku Lionhead's Project Natal demo Milo may look to be eight, but he's never lived longer than 12 days. Speaking with Peter Molyneux this week, the developer said that the child artificial intelligence for Xbox 360 tech demo Milo and Kate is usually "scrubbed" after about 200 hours. The longest Milo has "lived" is 300 hours, he said. Something done to help test the development of their virtual child and his ability to track experiences. Molyneux repeated that Milo isn't meant to be a living AI, but rather a cleverly-crafted combination of nuanced facial animation and artificial emotion that creates the illusion of life. In my second demo of Milo and Kate, I was able to watch the computer that drove the software, just to make sure that the digital child didn't have a puppeteer. The computer running the software took the video signal of the person interacting with Milo and then tracked the movements of the body by placing digital boxes on the joints. It also tracked the facial movements of the person speaking and other key motions, like shoulders. Molyneux said that other software listens to the voice and analyzes it for emotional responses to cue up reactions from Milo. The software that analyzes all of this, compares it to the history of interactions it has had with you and uses it to determine things like your mood. Looking closer at the icons which are pegged to each corner of the screen, including one for work and one for play, it appears that Milo and Kate may one day be a more personal, more interactive version of something like The Sims. Molyneux also talked about how the software could in theory track your daily Xbox 360 usage to help build out a conversation with you about your gaming habits. He also plans to have Milo track bigger cultural events, like American Idol, and get regular voice updates so the child can talk to you about things currently going on in the world. The interactions will take place not only in the garden of Milo's virtual world, but also in places like the home's kitchen, in the woods, and other virtual settings. More interesting to me is that the child will be able to interact with an entire family or collection of people, forming varying degrees of faux emotional connection to them depending on the interactions. You won't, however, be able to verbally abuse or emotionally attack Milo, Molyneux said. Milo just won't register anything like that. It's meant to be a positive experience, he said, something that gives people a chance to feel what it's like to have a positive impact on someone, to be a role model.

http://kotaku.com/5279735/milo-has-t...of-a-fruit-fly

So, he only lives for about 300 hours? How will the game end? Will it just reset? will Milo die or leave us?

[Kalyx triaD]

This is a scary subject.

[Drakul]

Originally Posted by Kotaku According to sources speaking with British trade site MCV, Microsoft's Project Natal will be released worldwide in November 2010, and may retail for under $80. The details apparently leaked during a round of developer visits in the UK, in which Microsoft toured studios showing off the technology. The same sources reckon 14 games will be available at launch, with 5 million cameras ready for sale on day 1, spread between standalone cameras and 360/Natal bundles. Most interesting of all, however, is word on the price Microsoft are hoping to charge, with an expected price of £50 in the UK, which is USD$80. One source, however, indicated Microsoft may go even cheaper in an effort to make Natal an "impulse buy", and price it as low as £30 (USD$50).

Source: http://kotaku.com/5402009/rumor-proj...might-be-cheap

Cool. Glad it's going to be cheap. Hopefully, we'll get a lot of media up until release. Preferrably of it being used in actual games and not tech demos.

[Kalyx triaD]

Oh you just know we're getting shovelware. That only effects idiots who buy any game anyway. I'll look for the inspired gems.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD Oh you just know we're getting shovelware. That only effects idiots who buy any game anyway. I'll look for the inspired gems.

I'ma dodge this at launch. I'm hoping they do some good stuff, though.

[Drakul]

It's inevitable we'll get shovelware at first. No one will put time and money into something unless they know it sells. Once Natal has been out a while, we should get the gems you are going to look for.

With 14 games in development, at least a few will be decent or better. Fable III will likely incorporate it in some way and I'm sure they'll have a Natal-Halo planned. I'm not interested in Halo but others are. I'm thinking we'll get at least one racing game, a Wii Sports-esque game and something to demo the voice recognition (wait, that's Milo).

As long as it doesn't get over crowded with Yoga games and stuff, Natal could be a worth while upgrade.

[Kalyx triaD]

I wouldn't call it an upgrade, more like a add-on. This will not evolve gaming.

[Drakul]

Maybe it wont but with the success of the Wii and if Natal and/or Sonys wands are a success, it could be the next "thing" for consoles. I can see the next generation of consoles relying heavily on this "active" control style if Natal goes well.

If that's a good thing or not is debatable.

[Kalyx triaD]

It's good as an option. I still see 'pad and stick' controllers as the primary way to play games.

[Drakul]

Yeah, we'll still use pads but I can see head tracking, voice and face recognition being used a lot.

Edit: This guy did head tracking using just the Wii remote. He did this as a project last year. Now he works for MS and works on Natal. Gives a rough idea how it might look.

[Kalyx triaD]

I'm more interested in the applications to the XB dashboard interface, to be honest. Signing in by face/voice recognition is cool.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Drakul Maybe it wont but with the success of the Wii and if Natal and/or Sonys wands are a success, it could be the next "thing" for consoles. I can see the next generation of consoles relying heavily on this "active" control style if Natal goes well. If that's a good thing or not is debatable.

It could be, but it's unlikely to.

[Drakul]

Random little thought: What happens if you are one of a set of twins? How would it know who to log in if it only used our faces?

[Kalyx triaD]

Voice, I guess.

[Requiem]

Honestly liked Sony's thing better. I see it being more functional.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Drakul Random little thought: What happens if you are one of a set of twins? How would it know who to log in if it only used our faces?

Most identical twins are not truly identical. I guess it depends on how effectively it scans.

[Drakul]

I guess. I've heard it's sensitive enough to pick up individual fingers and eye movements so if that's true, it should be able to tell between twins. Even if it's not, it can use voice like Kalyx said.

I'm betting a future band game uses Natal for some kind of head banging minigame.

Activition, Bethesda, Capcom, Disney, EA, Konami, Square Enix are seven of the developers making games for Natal.

[Drakul]

Came across this video from some conference in October.



Milo looks to be coming along nicely. Lol at the gasps 25 seconds in.

[Drakul]

Coming Holiday 2010. It was obviously going to be towards Christmas.


I wish they show a game using it and not just tell us the same thing every 3 months.

[Drakul]

Natals could go pretty cheap and it's going to extend the 360's life by 5 years. I think I guessed the extended lifespan in another thread.

Originally Posted by Gamezine Microsoft will charge consumers $50 (£32) for the Project Natal hardware upon its launch in the coming months - at least, that's what a leading market analyst believes. Michael Pachter, a man associated with Wedbush Morgan Securities, said that the company plans to charge the lower price as a result of the target client it aims to satisfy, even if it undermines the organisation's direct profits. Speaking on his internet TV spot, Pachter continued: "My guess is on Natal, which is really important to them, is they're going to price it at or below their cost. So I think it's hard for us to envision that it's going to cost them $150 to make Natal. "You're really talking about software, which is an easy thing for them to distribute and a camera." He said that if everyone owns one, then the money can start rolling in from the things Microsoft produces to work on it. Project Natal is expected by Microsoft leading light Shane Kim to extend the Xbox's lifespan by five years, taking it to 2015.

Source.

I'm hoping it does turn out to be as cheap as predicted. I'm going to be picking one up if the price is right and there are at least a few games worth playing at time of launch. We'll see at E3, I guess. That's when we'll see some Natal games.

[Fignuts]

Good news.

[Emperor Smeat]

Rumor is Rare might unveil Killer Instinct 3 for Natal but not at launch since the project manager only said it was something they were considering.

http://videogamesdaily.com/news/2009...-natal-outing/

[Kalyx triaD]

KI3 + Natal = Fail

[OssMan]

I have a feeling this is going to fail massively.

[Kalyx triaD]

I think using Natal for menus and shit will be cool, but as far gaming potential goes I don't see it doing much more than gimmicky applications. At best Microsoft will make sure not to repeat shovelware by encouraging developers against it.

[Drakul]

Milo may not be a "virtual pet" type game, like we thought. He is just a character in bigger and more dramatic story.

Originally Posted by Incgamers Lionhead’s Peter Molyneux has revealed that Milo will play a part in a larger story. In an interview with IncGamers at Microsoft’s X10 event in San Francisco, Molyneux hinted that we haven’t seen the last of the star of his E3 Natal demonstration. “I was very, very tight about what was actually being said about Milo and not being said about Milo. I think it did its job,” said Molyneux when asked about the E3 demo. “It made people look around and say ‘How could you make a game out of a character like Milo?’ And I think that question is still out there; I'm just not allowed to answer it.” However, as always, the Lionhead man could not leave without giving us a snippet of info. “I might hint... Milo is a character in a bigger and more dramatic story that we're telling,” he said. At E3 2009 Molyneux showed a video featuring a Lionhead employee interacting with a young boy named Milo via Microsoft's Project Natal motion sensing and voice recognition hardware. Stay tuned for the full interview with Molyneux later today.

Source.

Someone on the Lionhead forums posted some evidence someone from Neogaf compiled about Milo. The guys theory is that Milo is going to play like an interactive Enid Blyton novel and that we'll be an imaginery friend helping Milo out.

Originally Posted by sacklad @ LH forums I spied this discussion on another forum and it seems like a pretty theory about what Milo actually is. What the game actually is. It's from a poster called gofreak on NeoGaf. He suggests that Milo might be a sorta interactive Enid Blyton novel. Like Famous Five or Secret Seven - kids getting into adventures in the English countryside. He thinks you'll be like an imaginary friend tagging along on these adventures, helping Milo out, being able to talk to him like you were another character in the story. He thinks you won't actually control a character in the game or anything, or even really directly have control over the events happening, but will be with Milo as he goes about these adventures, and have sort of a supporting role. A couple of things in that discussion are pointed out that have been leaked or said about Milo, that support this theory: - You're going to play the part of Milo's imaginary friend - Milo has just moved from the city to the country. Things like Enid Blyton novels usually have kids taken from school or the city and put in the countryside where they have the freedom to have adventures. - Milo has a dog, Kate. In things like Famous Five and Secret Seven the kids have a dog that is in its own right a big character in the story. - A job ad currently on the Lionhead site is looking for a scripter for Milo, that talks about scripting 'in-game quests' - Another poster at NeoGaf chimed in to say that on a visit to Lionhead in a press capacity priot to E3, he saw concept art of Milo appearing "to being sucked into something that looked like a portal or swimming in what looked like the classical "time travel swirly things"". That fits with the prototype that Blyton and C.S Lewis novels follow. There's usually some kind of portal or wardrobe or ladder or something that the kids go through to get to a magical land. - And finally, maybe coincidentally, in a Wired interview just before E3 2008, Peter Molyneux was asked what his favourite book was. His answer: "The Magic Faraway Tree by Enid Blyton. Why I liked it is every time you climbed the tree, there was a different land for you to explore. There’s a land where you can eat everything, a land filled with nursery rhyme characters. I must’ve been about six or seven at the time, but I can still remember the first time I read about Topsy-Turvy Land. " Starting to add up? Just lately Molyneux confirmed Milo was part of a bigger story. It makes more sense and isn't nearly as creepy as the idea of keeping a boy as a kind of simulation pet. There's more talk about it at neogaf about how it might work and it makes pretty good sense, cause it seems to fit quite well with what Natal is good at, and what it might not be so at.

Source.

Edit: Digging around right now, Lionhead has a job opening for someone to script interactive cut-scenes, likely for Milo:

Overview : Successful applicant will be part of the scripting team working on a brand new IP. They will be responsible for the scripting of in-game quests and interactive cutscenes.

Source.

Also, Lionhead is rumoured to be making another Natal game:

Originally Posted by Split-Screen When Lionhead Studios and Microsoft Game Studios unveiled Milo & Kate at E3 2009 in collaboration with their reveal of their hands-free motion controller Project Natal, it simultaneously caused a furore and belittled the idea of celebrities ever looking normally playing games. Shortly before the smoke-and-mirrors stories of Milo being a fraud AI, Creative Director of MGS Europe Peter Molyneux announced Fable III at Gamescom 2009 and is currently gathering feedback on the same. Rumours are also running rampant of a third Lionhead Studios game, where the company is looking for some one to “develop and maintain network code”. We’re not sure if this is the above mentioned third secret title, but one thing’s for sure: Lionhead Studios has plans for Natal that go beyond a little boy and his dog. Daniel Gray is a production assistant at Lionhead Studios, who used to work as a QA tester for Fable II. He’s since been “working on an as of yet unannounced title utilizing Project Natal” for the past 8 months. Interestingly, he began work in July 2009 – a good one month after Milo & Kate was announced at E3. So it most definitely can’t be that. Is this a fourth title, or is Lionhead looking to incorporate network code and Natal play into one experience? Maybe something in the Black & White franchise? Hopefully we’ll hear more at GDC or E3 2010.

Source.

I'd love a Natal controlled B&W game.

[Buzzkill]

I nominate Drakul as Mod of the VG forum

[Drakul]

[Drakul]

Jonathan Ross (UK TV/Radio presenter) got invited to try out Natal a few weeks ago. Two things have come from that, firstly, his son posted a video of him trying it out:



And, secondly, on his Twitter, he seems to say that Natal will be out in October:

OK. Before bed. Natal on X Box impressive. Not quite there yet i think but tye have til october and if they get it right...skys the limit.

Source. As far as I'm aware, we just got a release date of "Holiday 2010" officially, right?
Jonathan Ross has let slip before. He announced Fable III was in the works long before LH announced it and that he had a role in the game.

[Funky Fly]

Yeah, probably a good idea to keep it cheap and then get everyone buying the titles as opposed to going nuts with the hardware and limiting it to "racing wheel peripheral" status, if you catch my drift.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Drakul Natals could go pretty cheap and it's going to extend the 360's life by 5 years. I think I guessed the extended lifespan in another thread. Source. I'm hoping it does turn out to be as cheap as predicted. I'm going to be picking one up if the price is right and there are at least a few games worth playing at time of launch. We'll see at E3, I guess. That's when we'll see some Natal games.

Patcher's fairly consistently wrong, isn't he? He's predicted a lot wrong, like increases in gold prices for live for the past 3-4 years.

As such, while I hope it's that cheap, it probably won't be. And I seriously doubt we see an extension of 5 years.

Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD I think using Natal for menus and shit will be cool, but as far gaming potential goes I don't see it doing much more than gimmicky applications. At best Microsoft will make sure not to repeat shovelware by encouraging developers against it.

There could be some pretty awesome applications of the hardware. Unfortunately, I don't see them being done.

Mostly, I'm concerned about it using the 360's processing power, adding latency to the experience, and being poorly supported, but it has potential.

Sadly, the same is true of the DS, and that didn't exactly turn out to have a lot of killer applications of the touch screen. Not that it's a bad system, before anyone bitches at me, but there aren't many games that really use it to a great extent.

I think the best applications would shy far away from fake sword swinging and shit, though. Strategy, puzzle, and non-action RPGs could benefit greatly.

[Drakul]

For anyone interested in how Natal actually sees us:



E3 is just 2 months away. We'll see a lot more about it then.

[Drakul]

So someone else got to try out Natal and they revealed another game for it:

Originally Posted by Kotaku Remember James Gunn? The filmmaker who called Microsoft "the most dreadful, non-talent friendly company I've ever worked for"? Apparently they patched up. Microsoft invited him to try Natal, and Gunn's spilled the beans on a game called "River Rush." On his personal blog, Gunn describes River Rush as two player kayaking type game where both participants steer the boat by stepping right or left. (that's him pictured playing it with a friend) "As you rush down right rapids, you have to jump up and slap floating stars in the air – the whole raft jumps up every time you do," he says. Sounds like high potential for midair collisions. Gunn wants it known that he's the first one to teabag a fellow player's avatar in Natal. Well, sort of. His friend's avatar "was a girl during River Rush, probably because Dave feels like a little princess inside, and I suddenly realized how awesome it would be for my avatar to molest Dave's. As my avatar rubbed its crotch against Dave's avatar's ass the Microsoft folks started laughing and said that was the first time they had seen anyone do that. I was extremely proud of myself. I'm sure millions of little assholes will follow in the wake of my avatar-raping, but I want it to be noted in my Wikipedia page that I was the very first. Gunn says he was told "there were boxing and football and other Natal games coming out, but I really, really can't wait to shoot someone on that fucking thing."

Source.

So, so far we know Natal has a Breakout game, A kayaking game and we're getting boxing and football (I'm guessing American football). I'm hoping it's the Natal equivalent of Wii Sports, a compilation disc to get us used to Natal and not a bunch of seperate games.
Milo/Fable III should be what most games use Natal for. Talking, scanning and interaction that isn't basically one big arm flailing marathon.

I'm wondering what Capcom, Square Enix and everyone else will come up with.

[Kalyx triaD]

Here come the premium tech demos.

[Drakul]

I'm sure someone must have suggested it by now but why don't they use Natal in SvR?

Act out and record your own taunts, stances etc for your CAW. When you actually do them in a match, it's assigned to the taunt button, of course. Scan yourself into the game if you want to save yourself the hassle of making yourself in Create mode. Scan in items of clothing for your CAW, draw your own signs and scan them in for the audience to hold up.

They could add a whole new section of Career Mode based around merchandising. We could create our own t-shirts, hats etc using Natal and sell them ingame to boost stats like Charisma and to gain money to buy new items, No Mercy style. If we have bad matches and lose a lot, sales of merchandise goes down and so does our income.

SPOILER: show

Actually Natal could be used to boost a lot of other stats in Career Mode but I can't imagine many people actually using some of them if they require actual physical movements. Obviously it would be optional.
- Boost mike skills by reading out the text that comes up for your CAW. You're playing the part of your CAW more too. Doing well boosts Charisma too and the effect is multiplied if you're selling merch well.

- Boost strength by hitting the gym and spending some time with the punching bag.

- Boost speed by sparring and avoid the trainers punches, kicks and attempts to grapple you. Weave to dodge the punches, side step to avoid the kicks (sidestep right to avoid a left kick and viceversa), jump back to avoid the grapple. Dodge at the last second for success but dodge too soon and he still gets you.

Stuff like that. Obviously, if you'd prefer you could choose to gain stats through matches rather than using the gym.

I'm being too optimistic about how companies like THQ and games like SvR will use Natal.

Natal can be a decent part of a 360 game without seeming out of place and gimmicky. Voice commands in squad based shooters and RTS games without the need for a dodgy headset. It'll be helpful because, if commands are voice activated, it frees up more buttons for other things and takes away the need for flow breaking command menus.

Customisation in a lot of games if they let us scan in items.

They could bring back light gun games and have us use our furniture as cover.

Not all Natal games have to involve us having seizures infront of the tv like the Breakout demo. I hope game developers realise that.

[Emperor Smeat]

Motion control has been used in the SvR series before but mainly on the Wii doing taunts or certain moves where you mimicked the motion. Nothing on the level of what your suggestion with Natal though but more of the simpler stuff during a match.

[Kalyx triaD]

I though about that when they explained how Natal can essentially motion capture to a degree. But yeah, like Hell the SvR team's hopping on that.

[Drakul]

So I shouldn't build my hope up for the return of Guest Referee where I have to actually count to 3 and clap my hands (simulating hitting the mat) for the pinfall or count to 10 while point at the screen to call the count out?

Actually, that sounds like it could have been fun if you refereed another players match. Count as fast or as slow as you like. A hand gesture assigned to each call (pinfall, count out, rope break, DQ, ring the bell) and a voice command to go with each gesture.
It would be pretty dull if it was an AI match, though.
Online would be screwjobs a-plenty.

[OssMan]

I really hope this fails