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Old 06-27-2010, 07:44 PM   #41
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he fought arlovski when he was ranked no 2.
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:23 AM   #42
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I don't get the Fedor hate. I have a feeling you guys treat him like shit, cause he doesn't want to fight for UFC.
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:29 AM   #43
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I don't hate him. I don't like the way he does business and the way he ducked Ovareem.
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:48 AM   #44
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I don't think Fedor has fought any top guy since Cro Cop, and that was 2005.
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:12 PM   #45
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he fought arlovski when he was ranked no 2.
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:13 PM   #46
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And that was only 2-3 fights ago.
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:17 PM   #47
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Andre Arlovski at number 2 is fraudulent.
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:01 PM   #48
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He was just coming of being the UFC champion.
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:04 PM   #49
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I don't get the Fedor hate. I have a feeling you guys treat him like shit, cause he doesn't want to fight for UFC.
Thats exactly right.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:30 PM   #50
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Fedor is the best heavyweight of all time based on his skill, his poise and his record. However, on Saturday night he lost to Fabricio Werdum who he should have ran through. Fedor's loss is more of an example of his humanity than anything else. Finally, the cyborg that was able to walk through the treacherous landscape of MMA unscathed finally made a mistake and got tapped. It was crazy that he hung out in Werdum's guard in the first place and then after Werdum almost caught an arm it is unthinkable that such a great fighter would stay in as Wedum locked up the triangle. I was shocked, as was many other people that watched that fight.

If Werdum gives Fedor a rematch any thinking MMA fan would put their money on Fedor, it just makes sense.

Anyway their is a lot of hate going on with Fedor and their has been for a long long time. He was and should have been the Number 1 Heavyweight in the world for a long time until Saturday night.

The debate that used to go on was between PRIDE and UFC and which promotion was better. The only thing that was virtually undebateable was the PRIDE Heavyweights were better than the UFC Heavyweights, thus Fedor the top man in the PRIDE Heavyweight division was the top Heavyweight in the world.

The trouble happened when PRIDE folded and Fedor went out and fought. In the over three years since PRIDE is gone Fedor has fought six times against:

Matt Lindland
A blown up Middleweight that at the time was was considered on the top 10 Middleweights in the world. Since then Lindland has gone on to be not even a Top 20 middleweight.

Hong Man Choi
A freak show match that had really no baring on any Heavyweight rankings, and is totally useless for a Champion. Since then Choi has only one win against Jose Canseco.

Tim Sylvia
A solid Top 10 Heavyweight that despite a loss to Randy Couture ran through a fairly weak UFC Heavyweight division leading to this match. Since Sylvia has lost to Ray Mercer beaten 2 fighters worth nothing and has yet to weigh in under 300lbs for any of them.

Andre Arlovski
Heading into his match with Fedor, Andre Arlovski was the concensus number 2 heavyweight in the world and considered before the fight Fedor's biggest challenge since Cro Cop. Since then Arlovski has lost to an up and commer by the name of Antonio Silva and...

Brett Rogers
Leading up to this match Brett Rogers was barley a Top 10 heavyweight based on beating the very man Fedor had just crushed, only Brett did it faster... Since then Brett has lost to the man that most people wanted to see Fedor fight in Alistair Overeem.

Fabricio Werdum
A lower Top 10 heavyweight at the time of the Fedor fight. Since then...

Those are his last 6 opponents and they serve as a real rorschach test to you as a MMA fan.

In my opinion in his last 6 fights Fedor has 3 worthy opponents, and 3 unworthy opponents.

Compair that to the other 2 men that are concensus Top 3 pound for pound heavyweights...

GSP who in his last 6 fights he's fought 6 worthy opponents.

Anderson Silva who in his last 6 fights he's fought 3 worthy opponents.


Fedor's fights are okay with me. Just answer me who in the heavyweight division has fought better opponents in his last 6 fights?
Last edited by The Show Off; 06-28-2010 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:25 PM   #51
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Frank Mir, Lesnar
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:30 PM   #52
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Frank Mir is roughly the equivalent of a Fabricio Werdum. That's Lesnars biggest win, and an old Randy Couture, who was getting the better of him.

But Nog beat Couture, and I wouldnt call that a win of substance, since he got smashed by Valesquez in his next fight.
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:33 PM   #53
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And Werdum will more than likely be ranked higher than Mir when the new rankings come out.
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:00 PM   #54
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because he beat the guy that was "ranked #1"
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:09 PM   #55
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Fabricio Werdum is probably has the best BJJ out there in MMA and is with out a doubt the best in the heavyweight division. He Just came off this year winning the open weight ADCC which is the most prestigious accomplishment for any grappler
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:12 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Savior View Post
Frank Mir, Lesnar
Are you saying that Mir and Lesnar fought better opponents in their last 6 fights than Fedor... Or are you refering to a different post.
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:14 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Show Off View Post
Fedor is the best heavyweight of all time based on his skill, his poise and his record. However, on Saturday night he lost to Fabricio Werdum who he should have ran through. Fedor's loss is more of an example of his humanity than anything else. Finally, the cyborg that was able to walk through the treacherous landscape of MMA unscathed finally made a mistake and got tapped. It was crazy that he hung out in Werdum's guard in the first place and then after Werdum almost caught an arm it is unthinkable that such a great fighter would stay in as Wedum locked up the triangle. I was shocked, as was many other people that watched that fight.

If Werdum gives Fedor a rematch any thinking MMA fan would put their money on Fedor, it just makes sense.

Anyway their is a lot of hate going on with Fedor and their has been for a long long time. He was and should have been the Number 1 Heavyweight in the world for a long time until Saturday night.

The debate that used to go on was between PRIDE and UFC and which promotion was better. The only thing that was virtually undebateable was the PRIDE Heavyweights were better than the UFC Heavyweights, thus Fedor the top man in the PRIDE Heavyweight division was the top Heavyweight in the world.

The trouble happened when PRIDE folded and Fedor went out and fought. In the over three years since PRIDE is gone Fedor has fought six times against:

Matt Lindland
A blown up Middleweight that at the time was was considered on the top 10 Middleweights in the world. Since then Lindland has gone on to be not even a Top 20 middleweight.

Hong Man Choi
A freak show match that had really no baring on any Heavyweight rankings, and is totally useless for a Champion. Since then Choi has only one win against Jose Canseco.

Tim Sylvia
A solid Top 10 Heavyweight that despite a loss to Randy Couture ran through a fairly weak UFC Heavyweight division leading to this match. Since Sylvia has lost to Ray Mercer beaten 2 fighters worth nothing and has yet to weigh in under 300lbs for any of them.

Andre Arlovski
Heading into his match with Fedor, Andre Arlovski was the concensus number 2 heavyweight in the world and considered before the fight Fedor's biggest challenge since Cro Cop. Since then Arlovski has lost to an up and commer by the name of Antonio Silva and...

Brett Rogers
Leading up to this match Brett Rogers was barley a Top 10 heavyweight based on beating the very man Fedor had just crushed, only Brett did it faster... Since then Brett has lost to the man that most people wanted to see Fedor fight in Alistair Overeem.

Fabricio Werdum
A lower Top 10 heavyweight at the time of the Fedor fight. Since then...

Those are his last 6 opponents and they serve as a real rorschach test to you as a MMA fan.

In my opinion in his last 6 fights Fedor has 3 worthy opponents, and 3 unworthy opponents.

Compair that to the other 2 men that are concensus Top 3 pound for pound heavyweights...

GSP who in his last 6 fights he's fought 6 worthy opponents.

Anderson Silva who in his last 6 fights he's fought 3 worthy opponents.


Fedor's fights are okay with me. Just answer me who in the heavyweight division has fought better opponents in his last 6 fights?
I get what you're saying but Lesnar is a little different. He was gifted a shot WAY early in his career on name power (and I don't deny that as being unfair, trust me). He beat the top guys in the UFC at the time (except for Big Nog) then got crazy sick and had a long layoff.

Anderson Silva has already run through his division and basically fights anybody because he's already beaten the top guys (Marquardt, Henderson, Maia to an extent, Franklin twice, Forest at LH).

GSP is getting into similar territory. Hopefully Koscheck won't be a dumbass and will actually train his wrestling for this shit.

Fedor was a free agent and had a ton of the top guys he could have faced in the UFC, but went where the money was better. FAIR ENOUGH. But now that he's in Strikeforce, he skipped out on his title shot to fight Werdum. THAT'S where I take issue. None of the other guys actively avoided better competition. They beat them already and only have the division's scraps left to go through. If Fedor doesn't fight Ovareem next, I'm writing him off completely.
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:21 PM   #58
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Won't Overeem fight Werdum next? If so then Fedor will have to fight someone else unless he waits a few more months on top of the few months in between fights.
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:24 PM   #59
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Quote:
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If Fedor doesn't fight Ovareem next, I'm writing him off completely.
That is just ridiculous.
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:25 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Fly View Post
I get what you're saying but Lesnar is a little different. He was gifted a shot WAY early in his career on name power (and I don't deny that as being unfair, trust me). He beat the top guys in the UFC at the time (except for Big Nog) then got crazy sick and had a long layoff.

Anderson Silva has already run through his division and basically fights anybody because he's already beaten the top guys (Marquardt, Henderson, Maia to an extent, Franklin twice, Forest at LH).

GSP is getting into similar territory. Hopefully Koscheck won't be a dumbass and will actually train his wrestling for this shit.

Fedor was a free agent and had a ton of the top guys he could have faced in the UFC, but went where the money was better. FAIR ENOUGH. But now that he's in Strikeforce, he skipped out on his title shot to fight Werdum. THAT'S where I take issue. None of the other guys actively avoided better competition. They beat them already and only have the division's scraps left to go through. If Fedor doesn't fight Ovareem next, I'm writing him off completely.
I totally get that point, I really do. I've never read anywhere that Fedor ducked Overeem but I might have just missed that (if anyone could send me a link it'd be appreciated) and if he did really duck Overeem that's bullshit.

With the exception of Overeem and Barnett (who he was schedualed to fight until Barnett screwed it up) Fedor has fought all the best fighters outside the UFC.

Do I want him to be in the UFC? Hell yes.

Does his reputation take a hit not being in the UFC? Of course.

Fedor is still a great fighter and I'd bet on him against any heavyweight in the world still. He's not unbeatable though. Most logical people knew that a long time ago, and now the rest figured it out on Saturday.
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:25 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reavant View Post
Fabricio Werdum is probably has the best BJJ out there in MMA and is with out a doubt the best in the heavyweight division. He Just came off this year winning the open weight ADCC which is the most prestigious accomplishment for any grappler
Exactly.
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:25 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jura View Post
Won't Overeem fight Werdum next? If so then Fedor will have to fight someone else unless he waits a few more months on top of the few months in between fights.
What he said.
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:27 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reavant View Post
Fabricio Werdum is probably has the best BJJ out there in MMA and is with out a doubt the best in the heavyweight division. He Just came off this year winning the open weight ADCC which is the most prestigious accomplishment for any grappler
No doubt Werdum's BJJ is one of the best in the division... That being said if Wedum re-matched Fedor who would you put your money on?
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:40 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Instant Classic View Post
That is just ridiculous.
Strikeforce is fucked up. In any other company, he'd have to work his way back up (and considering it's Fedor, that would mean 1 fight probably), but I see Fedor getting the shot over Werdum. Let's not forget that this is the same company that gave Jake Shields a title shot when he only had 1 fight left on his deal because they were banking on Henderson. The same company that let Cung Le film movies all year and rarely defend his belt. The same company where Nick Diaz skips a drug test and still gets a title shot. They do retarded shit all the time.

And for the last time, I am not writing off Werdum. We all know he is a great BJJ practitioner, but MMA isn't pure grappling. Just ask Demian Maia. All I'm saying.

Fedor is a great fighter. That's why it bothers me so much that he's not going for the champ and working his way down. We know he's a machine, we know he's beaten past top contenders. That's why he should be fighting the champ first. He shouldn't have to work his way up, because he's already there. Bypassing the champ for the lower guys is ridiculous.
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:42 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by The Show Off View Post
No doubt Werdum's BJJ is one of the best in the division... That being said if Wedum re-matched Fedor who would you put your money on?
Tough call. You have to wonder if there's a possibility that Fedor believes his own hype. And if that's the case, how's he taking this loss?

Werdum's been training stand up with King Mo. If he keeps it up, you gotta wonder...
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:35 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Funky Fly View Post
Fedor is a great fighter. That's why it bothers me so much that he's not going for the champ and working his way down. We know he's a machine, we know he's beaten past top contenders. That's why he should be fighting the champ first. He shouldn't have to work his way up, because he's already there. Bypassing the champ for the lower guys is ridiculous.
Actually, Jake Shields won the Middleweight championship against Jason Miller in his previous fight, Dan Henderson was a title defense.
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:35 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Funky Fly View Post
Tough call. You have to wonder if there's a possibility that Fedor believes his own hype. And if that's the case, how's he taking this loss?

Werdum's been training stand up with King Mo. If he keeps it up, you gotta wonder...
King Mo isn't a striker though, he's primarily a wrestler.
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:59 PM   #68
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No doubt Werdum's BJJ is one of the best in the division... That being said if Wedum re-matched Fedor who would you put your money on?
fedor for sure, but my point is, getting caught in his guard is not a big deal. Yea fedor was able to punish nog there, but fabricio probably has a better guard than nog ever did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Fly View Post
Tough call. You have to wonder if there's a possibility that Fedor believes his own hype. And if that's the case, how's he taking this loss?

Werdum's been training stand up with King Mo. If he keeps it up, you gotta wonder...
king mo has shitty stand up. Hes a world class wrestler tho
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:14 PM   #69
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fedor for sure, but my point is, getting caught in his guard is not a big deal. Yea fedor was able to punish nog there, but fabricio probably has a better guard than nog ever did.
Yeah, plus Fedor was in his prime, in much better shape, and Werdum looks stronger than nog was too. And like you said, probably has a better gaurd.
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:48 PM   #70
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Are you saying that Mir and Lesnar fought better opponents in their last 6 fights than Fedor... Or are you refering to a different post.
For all of lesnars fights in the UFC he has fought people that were supposedly better than him. A lot of people thought putting lesnar against Herring was a bad idea, Herring was thought to be better. If Lesnar lost to herring he probably would have been gone.

If you are ranked #1 you should be striving to face #2....not #10
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:08 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Savior View Post
For all of lesnars fights in the UFC he has fought people that were supposedly better than him. A lot of people thought putting lesnar against Herring was a bad idea, Herring was thought to be better. If Lesnar lost to herring he probably would have been gone.

If you are ranked #1 you should be striving to face #2....not #10
Yeah, this.
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:09 PM   #72
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Who thought Herring was better than lesnar?
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:09 PM   #73
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Crack head who had just finished free-basing?
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:09 PM   #74
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and when you come in with a record of 1-0 every other guy in the organization is "supposedly better" than him
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:14 PM   #75
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And I don't think Lesnar would have been cut if he lost someone who was supposed to beat him, considering it was his first UFC fight and second overall.
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:16 PM   #76
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It was his 3rd
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Who thought Herring was better than lesnar?
Read the forums back then when people found out that it got switched from Coleman to Lesnar
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:46 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Savior View Post
For all of lesnars fights in the UFC he has fought people that were supposedly better than him. A lot of people thought putting lesnar against Herring was a bad idea, Herring was thought to be better. If Lesnar lost to herring he probably would have been gone.

If you are ranked #1 you should be striving to face #2....not #10
As for your first point...

After Herring got embarassed by an undersized heavyweight by the name of Jake O'Brien most MMA writers thought Lesnar would win and if he didn't win he had no place in the UFC. But most of them thought Herring was a tailor made can for Brock.

As for your second point...

When you are number 1 you should strive to fight number 2 I totally agree with that statement. However lets be fair up until Mir/Nogueira in December of 2008 Nogueira was Number 2 so he couldn't exactly fight the Number 2 guy at the time. He also tried to fight Couture during the whole time, and during that time he was ranked #3 behind Fedor and Nogueira. Also Fedor fought Arlovski when he was ranked number 2. Then he tried to fight Josh Barnett who was also highly ranked at the time (not #2 but Top 5).

Your point is valid now however since Fedor and Werdum are now the only two fighters outside the UFC that are Top 5 heavyweights.
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:51 PM   #78
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Ovareem may not be top 5, but god help the heavyweight division if when his contract is up he goes to the UFC.
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:21 AM   #79
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Quote:
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It was his 3rd
Read the forums back then when people found out that it got switched from Coleman to Lesnar
There were some knuckle heads saying coleman would beat lesnar....


so basically your saying thaty you were one of the people saying herring would beat lesnar because I remember it being fairly unanimous here that lesnar was going to push his shit in
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:14 AM   #80
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Ovareem may not be top 5, but god help the heavyweight division if when his contract is up he goes to the UFC.
God help Overeem if the fight makes it to the second round and we have to see his gas tank.
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