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Old 01-18-2011, 06:43 PM   #1
El Fangel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyMess View Post
Marc Crawford didn't want him on the 98 Olympic team because he was afraid the players would only listen to Messier and not their head coach.

One title? Captained two different teams to a cup. Plus he has 4 other rings, I'd say thats a pretty good indication.

Not to mention he's second all time in points, and he has an NHL leadership award named after him.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but to say he's overrated.... it just isn't true...

I dont see Oilers rings as a show of leadership, he was on a fucking good team at the height or its play. Excellent player, average leader.

Also I FUCKING hate with a fucking passion when people use Stanley Cups as a measure of personal achievement. Its a team achievement, not a personal one.

He lead the rangers yes, but what if he didnt win the Cup after making the call? It wouldnt be remembered much at all.

Also, who did he lead to win? He scored the goals himself.

I love the guy, he is an amazing player but an amazing leader he is not.
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Old 01-19-2011, 12:42 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
I dont see Oilers rings as a show of leadership, he was on a fucking good team at the height or its play. Excellent player, average leader.

Also I FUCKING hate with a fucking passion when people use Stanley Cups as a measure of personal achievement. Its a team achievement, not a personal one.

He lead the rangers yes, but what if he didnt win the Cup after making the call? It wouldnt be remembered much at all.

Also, who did he lead to win? He scored the goals himself.

I love the guy, he is an amazing player but an amazing leader he is not.

What if he didn't win the cup after calling the win? Come on... thats just searching for shit to say... what if Gretzky is never born.. yada yada... thats a poor argument, we could spend a thousand hours talking about "what ifs".

At the end of the day... if you have accolades named after you, if you have records in the book that sound like "the only player to...." it means something.

You are living in a very small, very small minority. In fact you are the only person I've ever heard say that about Messier. The arguments for him being a great leader far outweigh those that don't.
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Old 01-29-2011, 05:33 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
I dont see Oilers rings as a show of leadership, he was on a fucking good team at the height or its play. Excellent player, average leader.

Also I FUCKING hate with a fucking passion when people use Stanley Cups as a measure of personal achievement. Its a team achievement, not a personal one.

He lead the rangers yes, but what if he didnt win the Cup after making the call? It wouldnt be remembered much at all.

Also, who did he lead to win? He scored the goals himself.

I love the guy, he is an amazing player but an amazing leader he is not.
you're talking out of your butt. You didn't see him take charge of the
Oil and break the Islanders hold on cup #5. To name only 1
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