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Old 01-22-2011, 02:00 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuigiD View Post
What Benoit did is pretty shitty and no one can deny that. Despite the uglyness, the man inspired/supported/helped,etc many people out there. People are bound to be offended by what MVP did and I am sure MVP agrees that what Benoit did was pretty shitty. However, I am sure he has some memories of Benoit. Sir Thomas Malory raped and assaulted some women, does that mean no one should read Le Morte d'Arthur? I am pretty sure MVP praised Benoit for his support and friendship over the years and not the tragic way he left us.
First off Rape and Murder are two different things. None the less, no people should not read Le Morte d'Arthur if it was written by someone like that. Whether it's reading a book they wrote or watching a match they competed in, regardless of how 'good' it was it's still helping the memory of that horrible person stay alive which shouldn't be done. Benoit should be erased from history for the things he did no matter what/who he helped in life.
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Old 01-22-2011, 02:11 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartBreakMan2k View Post
I say fuck it, let him pay tribute to whoever he sees as important to him. He didn't do it in a way that was harmful to anyone else and he probably has his own ideas of who Chris was to him, in his life - separate of the terrible things he did. Would I ever do it, fuck no but to me he's simply a guy I used to enjoy watching who turned out to be a complete lunatic.
I agree with this. Working with Chris Benoit was apparently a dream for MVP. He emulated him on the independent circuit, and when he came up to the WWE worked quite closely with Benoit. Their match at WrestleMania 23 was the moment when a lot of people turned around on MVP, and thought he justified the push he was getting.

I'm sure MVP reflects tragically on the whole situation, but I noticed he didn't do a Diving Headbutt, or get hit in the head with a steel chair off a suicide dive in that match. If MVP has taken something from the mistakes Benoit made that led to the self-destruction and consequent destruction Chris Benoit inflicted upon himself and others, I see no reason he should feel ashamed that he honours certain qualities about a man he dreamed of working with, got the chance to, and learned from. And it's got to be painful seeing a man he considered a friend (at one point) get eradicated from the history of a industry he worked so hard to get to the top of. I'm sure it's a weight lifted off MVP.

Also, MVP went to prison. I'm not saying that this is the case with all criminals -- but MVP probably knows the world is not black-and-white. He, himself, as received a second chance, and is probably quite rich from it. I don't think it's any of our places to judge the man.
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Old 01-22-2011, 03:40 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post
Well MVP just lost all of my support for this little 'stunt'. In no way, shape, or form should Benoit ever be celebrated or praised. The man is a murderer plain and simple and a horrible human being. His 'acomplishments' in life and the Wrestling industry are nothing compared to his actions. Oh and to the comment about "Should we be mad at Rey for tributing Eddie?" that's a completely different story. Eddie Guerrero may have died due to previous drug use, but that isn't equivalent to murder in any way.
Didn't you read my whole post fucktard? I clearly stated that the scenario's were different. My point was Benoit wasn't a lifetime criminal, and yes what he did was terrible. The fact is MVP chose to remember the friend he knew, not the guy who did what he did. Who are we to judge him for that?
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:06 AM   #44
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I pretty much came in here to say what Tazz Dan said. *moonwalks out of thread*
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:59 AM   #45
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MVP has the right to do any fucking gesture he wants, nobody flipped out when JBL did the Hitler Salute in Germany!

Does this make MVP a bad person? Hell no, he was taking a memory and giving it salute and there is nothing wrong with that, murder or no murder, we all loved Chris Benoit at one point and now we are supposed to hate him? That's not rational.
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:32 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazz Dan View Post
Didn't you read my whole post fucktard? I clearly stated that the scenario's were different. My point was Benoit wasn't a lifetime criminal, and yes what he did was terrible. The fact is MVP chose to remember the friend he knew, not the guy who did what he did. Who are we to judge him for that?
Ok first off the name calling isn't needed here Tazz Dan I was simply posting my opinion, and yes I read your whole post and I'm sorry if I didn't interpret it correctly but the way it was worded it sounded as thow you were comparing the two. If you don't want to judge MVP for this then that's your deal, but I was raised to believe that supporting a murder is wrong and I will continue to judge him for this.
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:34 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan X View Post
MVP has the right to do any fucking gesture he wants, nobody flipped out when JBL did the Hitler Salute in Germany!

Does this make MVP a bad person? Hell no, he was taking a memory and giving it salute and there is nothing wrong with that, murder or no murder, we all loved Chris Benoit at one point and now we are supposed to hate him? That's not rational.
I was unaware that JBL did that. If it is indeed true then allow me to be the first to say that he should be knocked the hell out for doing that. As for MVP having the right to do any gesture he wants well yes he does this is America but that doesn't mean I have to agree with him doing it.
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:53 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAdamEvansFan View Post
Its interesting that they found so many empty beer cans in the trash in Benoits Kitchen, and an empty whine cooler next to Benoits body when he had no alcohol in his sytem.

He also reportedly swore against drinking, and was devoted to religion, and treating his family right.

It's just an interesting scenario.
Eddie was a born again Christian who had sworn off drugs, but was doing a full pharmacy every month. I don't think it's as interesting as you think it is. Mostly because people lie. People who "find Jesus" are no exception, and Eddie proves that.
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:55 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan X View Post
MVP has the right to do any fucking gesture he wants, nobody flipped out when JBL did the Hitler Salute in Germany!
LOL.

...You are joking, right?
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:51 PM   #50
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"Nobody" is inaccurate. He was fired from his Fox News job as a business analyst. Not sure if anybody commented on it in WWE though if that's what you meant.
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Old 01-22-2011, 02:06 PM   #51
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I can understand MVP appreciating what Benoit did for him and for the business. I can also understand MVP wanting to remember Benoit with a certain fondness and not just discarding him as a psychotic killer who should be erased from history. I'm sure MVP was, and may still be, very torn about the whole tragedy, just as a lot of other people were or are, and that's understandable.

If someone you were close to, or who helped you out in life in a big way, one day went psycho and killed someone, wouldn't you still think about that person and try to remember the good times or whatever? Of course.

What I find questionable, however, is MVP paying tribute to Benoit in such a public way, and especially making the throat slash gesture and pointing up toward the sky. We're all different, and some of you don't see anything wrong with what what MVP did, and that's fine. I just think maybe it wasn't appropriate and part of me finds distasteful.
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Old 01-22-2011, 02:11 PM   #52
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I dont see the big deal. Yeah, Benoit did what he did, we all know that. Benoit also played a big part in putting MVP on the map too. I think it could of been worse, like if he did it on WWE TV [or TNA for that matter], but it was a indy show so.
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Old 01-22-2011, 02:17 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightwing View Post
I dont see the big deal. Yeah, Benoit did what he did, we all know that. Benoit also played a big part in putting MVP on the map too. I think it could of been worse, like if he did it on WWE TV [or TNA for that matter], but it was a indy show so.
If he had done that on WWE TV, he would have suffered the same fate he's suffering now.
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Old 01-22-2011, 02:25 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazz Dan View Post
Yeah, Benoit fucked his reputation by killing himself and his family, but is it fair to say it was the drugs that made him do what he did, and that's not who he really was?

Should we hate on Rey for paying tribute to Eddie?

Still, it was the drug use over all the years that caught up with him (Eddie) in the end, doesn't mean he was a bad person his whole life. And yes, I know Eddie didn't kill anyone, but MVP was obviously remembering his friend from better times.
It wasn't the drugs, it was the repeated chairshots to the head, and flying headbutts, constantly concussing himself over and over again.
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Old 01-22-2011, 03:04 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Providence Peep View Post
If he had done that on WWE TV, he would have suffered the same fate he's suffering now.

Alot more people would be complaining about it if the salute was televised nationally. It was at an indy show, so its not gonna be anywhere near the exposure level for it to get that far.
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:22 PM   #56
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I see no problem with MVP paying tribute to Benoit.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:26 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razzamajazz View Post
so someone can't pay tribute to someone that gave them a break and helped their career?
Depends on how many innocent children they killed. If it's one or more, it's a little taboo.
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Old 01-23-2011, 01:11 AM   #58
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Don't hate on MVP, in no way by doing what he did, did he support Chris Benoit the psychotic murderer, the last two days of his life....

The rest of his life, he was a pretty great guy apparently and one of the best wrestlers in history.
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Old 01-23-2011, 01:13 AM   #59
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Might I say just as well for JBL, he was just doing his job and pissing people off, not supporting the Nazi party.
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Old 01-23-2011, 01:53 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post
Ok first off the name calling isn't needed here Tazz Dan I was simply posting my opinion, and yes I read your whole post and I'm sorry if I didn't interpret it correctly but the way it was worded it sounded as thow you were comparing the two. If you don't want to judge MVP for this then that's your deal, but I was raised to believe that supporting a murder is wrong and I will continue to judge him for this.
You weren't raised to believe it's wrong to judge people?
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Old 01-23-2011, 02:15 AM   #61
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Shaved Monkey gave me a big red dot with the following statement:

We can judge whomever we choose.


Obviously they never heard the saying "Judge not yet ye be judged"?
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Old 01-23-2011, 02:43 AM   #62
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You need to become a mod and get rid of all these rednecks, Tazz Dan.
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Old 01-23-2011, 02:44 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan X View Post


Don't hate on MVP, in no way by doing what he did, did he support Chris Benoit the psychotic murderer, the last two days of his life....

The rest of his life, he was a pretty great guy apparently and one of the best wrestlers in history.
You seriously think there was no backlash from that, though?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazz Dan View Post
Shaved Monkey gave me a big red dot with the following statement:

We can judge whomever we choose.


Obviously they never heard the saying "Judge not yet ye be judged"?
Perhaps he's not a Christian and as such, doesn't believe in the words of the Good Book?

Or, perhaps he is a Christian, but in the sense 80% of Christians in the world are.
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Old 01-23-2011, 03:18 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazz Dan View Post
Shaved Monkey gave me a big red dot with the following statement:

We can judge whomever we choose.


Obviously they never heard the saying "Judge not yet ye be judged"?
Feel free to judge me all you like.
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Old 01-23-2011, 03:23 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
Perhaps he's not a Christian and as such, doesn't believe in the words of the Good Book?

Or, perhaps he is a Christian, but in the sense 80% of Christians in the world are.
Yeah, the former.

I dunno what's so wrong with judging a person based on their actions. Seems like a perfectly rational thing to do.
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Old 01-23-2011, 06:26 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Shaved Monkey View Post
Feel free to judge me all you like.
It's not really about that, I was being sarcastic. I just found it petty you felt the need to neg rep me for asking "Who are we to judge?".

You judging me, by me not judging him, has made me judge you. And I don't believe in judging people, so the fact you have made me feel the need to judge you upsets me greatly.
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Old 01-23-2011, 06:28 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Gunn View Post
MVP vs. Benoit at Wrestlemania was fantastic. Benoit was never a favourite of mine but I respected his wrestling accomplishments and passion in the ring.

I have no sympathy for him for the murders, he should have spent the rest of his life in prison but took the easy way out. However, if I saw a Benoit match, I can separate in my mind what he did from who he was.

When you watch a Benoit match you're not watching a murderer, because he hadn't done anything at that point. It's all before the fact.
This pretty much sums it up.
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Old 01-23-2011, 06:35 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post
Ok first off the name calling isn't needed here Tazz Dan I was simply posting my opinion, and yes I read your whole post and I'm sorry if I didn't interpret it correctly but the way it was worded it sounded as thow you were comparing the two. If you don't want to judge MVP for this then that's your deal, but I was raised to believe that supporting a murder is wrong and I will continue to judge him for this.
In my defense I was drunk when I wrote that, but fucktard seemed funny at the time. And I'm not supporting a murderer, yes what happend was wrong, nobody is disputing that. But he wasn't a serial killer over years who eventual snapped and killed himself and his family. He was a guy who dedicated himself to a business where countless others have died from drug and alcohol related problems, and from injuries. This is what caused the incident to happen.

So if I choose to separate his wrestling career from the last week or so of his life when there were clearly some mental issues going on, well then obviously I'm not a good person.
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Old 01-23-2011, 11:16 AM   #69
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Don't get people who can just "forget" everything Benoit did in the business because he fucked up, as others have said its not like he was known to be that type of person and it was a number of things that lead to the incident. Personally i like to remember him as a great wrestler who put on some of the greatest matches/moments i've ever seen. Can't forget them just because of something that is a little more complicated than some people make it out to be.
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