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Old 02-21-2011, 11:39 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by Eklipse View Post
Good points, but with ppv buyrates at lows, they need to give the fans more incentive to buy the ppv.

But

If that's the case then why have Miz and Del Rio in the main events?

I don't know...I just can't follow the logic wwe is using anymore.

I just try to enjoy it as much as I can.
Yeah I just don;t give a shit about a HHH/Taker match, Taker's gonna win. It'll be decent but fail to be as good as X-7 so who cares.


And if the weirdest thing happens and HHH wins it'll be a major WTF why moment and suck on that front as well.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:41 PM   #362
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I don't see HHH being the one to end the streak tbh. Pretty much guaranteed 19-0.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:42 PM   #363
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http://www.tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=109788

Everybody go to the chat room. I want to yell at you.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:42 PM   #364
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Barrett vs Taker and Sheamus vs HHH would work if the two younger stars had been on fire up until tonight, but they haven't. HHH and Taker returning to face them would feel underwhelming to me.

Let HHH and Taker have their career vs streak epic at mania, then we can use lesser PPVs like backlash for going back to the feuds that took them out.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:43 PM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eklipse View Post
I don't see HHH being the one to end the streak tbh. Pretty much guaranteed 19-0.
I know that's part of my point.

Taker should be taking on younger guys who need a rub going toe to to toe with Taker guys you believe might win it.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:45 PM   #366
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I can't agree more!! I mean you got the Rock coming back and it seems their 'Mania promo spoiled the probable invovement of Steve Austin somehow. There are selling points right there.

You got Cena giving a rub to Miz. You have Edge and/or Christian rubbing for Del Rio.

You COULD have had Taker doing it for Barrett and HHH for Sheamus. You know, the two major heels on Raw for the better part of 2010. Instead, neither of them have a big match and two men who are faces, have had no past together for years and were both gone for months get a match.

It really is just such a let down to see months of good programming and a really strong youth movement just go by the wayside.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:45 PM   #367
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I can see this match being better than X-7.

A huge part of what made the Michaels matches so great, was the atmosphere they created, and the consequences of losing.

I don't even know if they were really pushing the streak by X-7. This match will have a much bigger feel to it than X-7, so that alone gives it a leg up on the previous contest.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:47 PM   #368
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My internet fucking broke for no real reason STRAIGHT after the HHH/Taker segment. Only just got it working.

Anyway, im pretty hyped for the hhh/taker match, can set it up as HHH wants revenge for Taker retiring HBK last year, they've built this up pretty well. Also loved the king/cole interview, god knows what cole will do in a wrestling ring though but just adds to an already good looking card, which now also includes bryan/sheamus it seems.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:48 PM   #369
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X-7 wasn't interesting to me because it wasn't Undertaker, it was the american badass. As a huge 'Taker mark, I'm a lot more interested in it this time around than the first.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:50 PM   #370
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Sting was probably up in the rafters, getting ready to rappel and make his challenge. Then Triple H's music hit right away and he was like "FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!"
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:52 PM   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkman61494 View Post
I can't agree more!! I mean you got the Rock coming back and it seems their 'Mania promo spoiled the probable invovement of Steve Austin somehow. There are selling points right there.

You got Cena giving a rub to Miz. You have Edge and/or Christian rubbing for Del Rio.

You COULD have had Taker doing it for Barrett and HHH for Sheamus. You know, the two major heels on Raw for the better part of 2010. Instead, neither of them have a big match and two men who are faces, have had no past together for years and were both gone for months get a match.

It really is just such a let down to see months of good programming and a really strong youth movement just go by the wayside.
They aren't going anywhere. Plenty of time for them to reach that spot.

Frankly, if it is HHH and Taker's last match, I'd rather see them face each other than Barrett and Sheamus. I don't think either of those guys are ready yet, to be in that spot.

And good god, Barrett ending the streak would be underwhelming as all hell. At this point I can't even buy an "up and comer" beating the streak. They've made too big a deal about it. It has to be an icon like HBK or HHH, in my eyes. But that discussion has been done to death.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:54 PM   #372
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Sting was probably up in the rafters, getting ready to rappel and make his challenge. Then Triple H's music hit right away and he was like "FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!"
In hindsight, I'm wondering how realistic it was for any of us to think it was Sting. I'm one who thought it might have been, or should have been, but could they really have brought in Sting this close to Mania and right into a program with Taker? Remember, WWE's target audience is KIDS and a lot of kids today probably don't even know who Sting is or know much about him. We do. They don't. Sting vs Taker would have equaled ppv buys for the people who know who Sting - but sadly, that isn't the majority anymore.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:54 PM   #373
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I can see this match being better than X-7.

A huge part of what made the Michaels matches so great, was the atmosphere they created, and the consequences of losing.

I don't even know if they were really pushing the streak by X-7. This match will have a much bigger feel to it than X-7, so that alone gives it a leg up on the previous contest.
Taker/HBK II had 3+ months of amazing build plus a previous history. The only thing this has is HHH being like grr you retired my friend, even though he wanted the match, I warned him against it and he did it to himself and a month.

Like why would HHH be pissed what was Taker gonna do lie down?
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:56 PM   #374
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Like why would HHH be pissed what was Taker gonna do lie down?
The (kayfabed) reason for the Trips vs. Taker match will probably be explained on Raw next week.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:58 PM   #375
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They aren't going anywhere. Plenty of time for them to reach that spot.

Frankly, if it is HHH and Taker's last match, I'd rather see them face each other than Barrett and Sheamus. I don't think either of those guys are ready yet, to be in that spot.

And good god, Barrett ending the streak would be underwhelming as all hell. At this point I can't even buy an "up and comer" beating the streak. They've made too big a deal about it. It has to be an icon like HBK or HHH, in my eyes. But that discussion has been done to death.
fuck that shit, no offense but new blood needs to be brought in, you make new stars by passing the torch not just having the big stars fight amongst themselves. A big star breaking the streak would be utterly pointless. They need to either never break it but have Taker give rub to new guys by having them come really close or if they have a guy who is at the cusp of greatness (Like Barrett was) break it.

I'm just sad cause this Mania is utterly deflating. There's more build up for Christian/Alberto or Kofi/Alberto then Edge/Alberto, Cena/Miz build is good but I'm utterly convinced it's just gonna be Cena wins all over again, Punk/Orton will be fine cause Punk is awesome, and what Barrett vs Show? Lame.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:58 PM   #376
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Well, they're never going to break the streak, but at least they could have allowed Barrett to be put in such a spot and perhaps in May or June allow him to go over 'Taker.


I mean you say that neither are ready for those spots. Sheamus is a two time champion who went over HHH and won a King of the Ring Tournament. Barrett had a huge feud with Cena and pretty much was the focal point of the WWE from about July-November.

I don't even think you can argue that Del Rio is more deserving. Even Miz to me is no more deserving of the spot than those two.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:00 AM   #377
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HHH/Taker will probably be a good match, but I just don't care about it.

Really don't know why WWE seems to have given up on both Sheamus and Barrett. It is kind of frustrating, really. I still saw Sheamus as on "good grounds" until tonight and jobbing to Mark Henry.

I could go on a rant, but no one cares or wants to read my rant.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:02 AM   #378
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Taker/HBK II had 3+ months of amazing build plus a previous history. The only thing this has is HHH being like grr you retired my friend, even though he wanted the match, I warned him against it and he did it to himself and a month.

Like why would HHH be pissed what was Taker gonna do lie down?
Wasn't just talking about Michaels/Taker II. The first match was just as good, and didn't have as much build.

Doesn't matter that he warned against it, or any of that. End result, his best friend had to retire. Taker doesn't have to be "wrong" for retiring shawn, for Trips to be mad about it.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:07 AM   #379
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Yeah. Like when HBK retired Flair and that created a feud between Batista and Shawn.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:11 AM   #380
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fuck that shit, no offense but new blood needs to be brought in, you make new stars by passing the torch not just having the big stars fight amongst themselves. A big star breaking the streak would be utterly pointless. They need to either never break it but have Taker give rub to new guys by having them come really close or if they have a guy who is at the cusp of greatness (Like Barrett was) break it.

I'm just sad cause this Mania is utterly deflating. There's more build up for Christian/Alberto or Kofi/Alberto then Edge/Alberto, Cena/Miz build is good but I'm utterly convinced it's just gonna be Cena wins all over again, Punk/Orton will be fine cause Punk is awesome, and what Barrett vs Show? Lame.
Let's just agree to disagree on the streak thing, because that issue has divided the whole internet, and all we'll be doing is arguing in circles. It's personal preference at this point.

As for Barrett and Sheamus being in big matches with Taker and HHH, well it just wouldn't work right now. When it comes to making a star at mania, I don't belive you can do it by just throwing them in a match and hoping for the best. There has to be a proper build to it. Maybe, if Sheamus and Barrett had kept their momentum up until now, but they haven't. Sheamus has been stuck in the midcard, and Barret has been floundering in Corre the last couple months.

It would feel underwhelming to me if they went up against Taker and HHH. Maybe if they would have kept up on their big pushes all this time. But they didn't. So at this point, I'd rather see HHH vs Taker than try and awkwardly fix what could have been.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:15 AM   #381
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HHH/Taker will probably be a good match, but I just don't care about it.

Really don't know why WWE seems to have given up on both Sheamus and Barrett. It is kind of frustrating, really. I still saw Sheamus as on "good grounds" until tonight and jobbing to Mark Henry.

I could go on a rant, but no one cares or wants to read my rant.
There was some report that Kevin Dunn has soured on Sheamus and you have to almost agree with that beleif now. I mean to me is there a coincidence that not only did he lose CLEAN but when?

For almost a YEAR they've been building Sheamus up to take on HHH. They kept him around the main event, even giving him King of the Ring to keep him at a level that fans would deem him as a credible threat. Then, in a matter of a month they have him from being the #2 heel on Raw (before Punk's return) to jobbing to Henry.

And on top of it, they have him jobbing the segment after HHH returns since Sheamus "injured" him in May. HHH gets a huge match. Sheamus now at best will have a US Title match with Daniel Bryan or participate in a Money In The Bank Match.

It's actually entirely possible now the guy won't even be no the card at this point.




Barrett is a whole other story. The guy carried Raw in my opinon through the summer. An amazing heel that the fans instantly hated, had good ring work and had the #1 feud in the WWE for months. Now, he will at best fight the Big Show in some filler match.

Honestly, I'm angry because since the end of '09, the WWE has done a good to great job building up new credible stars. Yet so far in 2011, they're doing the same exact crap that got them into this place where they had to have a youth movement in the first place.

They are taking these newly built stars, and completely burying them. And what's the purpose?

Look at a few others.

Del Rio wins a Royal Rumble, yet is getting some filler match last night and got his butt kicked by someone regarded to most as a mid carder in Christian.

Kingston is a major face, but is stuck in no man's land.

Bryan is Raw's version of Kingston. Great to see the mid card belt holders have relevant feuds right?

Drew McIntyre had this really great streak to start, but is now stuck in total mediocrity in some storyline with Kelly Kelly.

Ezekiel Jackson had two months worth of vigenttes but doesn't even wrestle and just looks menacing and has no one to feud with.

John Morrison was given a ONE WEEK feud with The Miz, and has been relegated to R-Truth's buddy in the mic-cards.

The Miz IS champion, but his longest feud has been against, the 63 year old Jerry Lawler, and is almost sure to job to Cena who can go win his 15th Championship that no one will care about.

Considering how well they were all doing in 2010, it's a real shame to see how almost ALL of them are being booked as either weak, useless, stupid or all of the above.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:15 AM   #382
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fair enough on agree to disagree.
Part of my annoyance with all this is the fact that they just killed Shamus and Barrett, this complete patch work match is just the icing on the cake.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:18 AM   #383
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If Barrett and Sheamus were both booked extremely strong as true main eventers, then yes I think I could buy HHH vs. Sheamus and Taker vs. Barrett. But now, there's just no way.

Besides, HHH vs. Taker is obviously a much bigger match on paper.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:20 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by jkman61494 View Post
There was some report that Kevin Dunn has soured on Sheamus and you have to almost agree with that beleif now. I mean to me is there a coincidence that not only did he lose CLEAN but when?

For almost a YEAR they've been building Sheamus up to take on HHH. They kept him around the main event, even giving him King of the Ring to keep him at a level that fans would deem him as a credible threat. Then, in a matter of a month they have him from being the #2 heel on Raw (before Punk's return) to jobbing to Henry.

And on top of it, they have him jobbing the segment after HHH returns since Sheamus "injured" him in May. HHH gets a huge match. Sheamus now at best will have a US Title match with Daniel Bryan or participate in a Money In The Bank Match.

It's actually entirely possible now the guy won't even be no the card at this point.




Barrett is a whole other story. The guy carried Raw in my opinon through the summer. An amazing heel that the fans instantly hated, had good ring work and had the #1 feud in the WWE for months. Now, he will at best fight the Big Show in some filler match.

Honestly, I'm angry because since the end of '09, the WWE has done a good to great job building up new credible stars. Yet so far in 2011, they're doing the same exact crap that got them into this place where they had to have a youth movement in the first place.

They are taking these newly built stars, and completely burying them. And what's the purpose?

Look at a few others.

Del Rio wins a Royal Rumble, yet is getting some filler match last night and got his butt kicked by someone regarded to most as a mid carder in Christian.

Kingston is a major face, but is stuck in no man's land.

Bryan is Raw's version of Kingston. Great to see the mid card belt holders have relevant feuds right?

Drew McIntyre had this really great streak to start, but is now stuck in total mediocrity in some storyline with Kelly Kelly.

Ezekiel Jackson had two months worth of vigenttes but doesn't even wrestle and just looks menacing and has no one to feud with.

John Morrison was given a ONE WEEK feud with The Miz, and has been relegated to R-Truth's buddy in the mic-cards.

The Miz IS champion, but his longest feud has been against, the 63 year old Jerry Lawler, and is almost sure to job to Cena who can go win his 15th Championship that no one will care about.

Considering how well they were all doing in 2010, it's a real shame to see how almost ALL of them are being booked as either weak, useless, stupid or all of the above.
ALL OF THIS!

I like you you can stay
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:22 AM   #385
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Let's just agree to disagree on the streak thing, because that issue has divided the whole internet, and all we'll be doing is arguing in circles. It's personal preference at this point.

As for Barrett and Sheamus being in big matches with Taker and HHH, well it just wouldn't work right now. When it comes to making a star at mania, I don't belive you can do it by just throwing them in a match and hoping for the best. There has to be a proper build to it. Maybe, if Sheamus and Barrett had kept their momentum up until now, but they haven't. Sheamus has been stuck in the midcard, and Barret has been floundering in Corre the last couple months.

It would feel underwhelming to me if they went up against Taker and HHH. Maybe if they would have kept up on their big pushes all this time. But they didn't. So at this point, I'd rather see HHH vs Taker than try and awkwardly fix what could have been.
So Sheamus injuring HHH to the point he misses almost a year, and Barrett "burying" Taker aren't proper builds to matches, but HHH showing up out of nowhere to confront Undertaker, say nothing except look at a WrestleMania sign is? Ummm Ok.

Look I'll agree with you that those two have been booked as weak. I just wrote a small book about that already. I'll concede with how weak they look, the drama isn't there.

But to me, they at least makse sense! The best case feud here that's discussed is HHH is coming back to defend his friends honor, and oh by the way I'll put my career on the line too! It's forced not to mention completely uninventive. Meanwhile we the fans are supposed to believe storyline wise that HHH doesn't want to get revenge on a guy who shelved him and Taker is just going to ignore the guy who led to him having to rise up yet again?

It's just awful awful booking.

I mean honestly, if they would have brought back HHH a month ago and start building this then? Then super! HHH could have come out, talking about the fact that since his time away he's been able to reflect on what happened at "Mania, and how life hasn't been the same since he lost his friend because of the Undertaker. And he will hunt that man down and pay for this. HHH leaves the arena and we are left to guess what's up

This could have led to those 2/21/11 videos. Is that Taker in the shack? Is it HHH devising a plan? Two weeks later we see Taker is in there, but those boots outside? Is that HHH lurking in the shadows? Someone else?


But now we get this dreck, and two of their promising stars are buried in the process.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:25 AM   #386
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All of that except the Morrison thing. He's still doing good. Though he kinda got squashed by Punk tonight.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:25 AM   #387
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Said this in another thread - but I'm not ENTIRELY convinced that Miz is gonna job away the belt at Mania. If they don't formally make Rock an enforcer or ref I could see Miz cheating to retain, robbing Cena of his WM moment, only for Rock to run down and kick his ass before making amends with Cena. Taker/HHH would then headline to ensure the show ends with a happy result.

Cena could then win it at Backlash or something - since you know Backlash is all WM rematches anyway.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:29 AM   #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkman61494 View Post
So Sheamus injuring HHH to the point he misses almost a year, and Barrett "burying" Taker aren't proper builds to matches, but HHH showing up out of nowhere to confront Undertaker, say nothing except look at a WrestleMania sign is? Ummm Ok.

Look I'll agree with you that those two have been booked as weak. I just wrote a small book about that already. I'll concede with how weak they look, the drama isn't there.

But to me, they at least makse sense! The best case feud here that's discussed is HHH is coming back to defend his friends honor, and oh by the way I'll put my career on the line too! It's forced not to mention completely uninventive. Meanwhile we the fans are supposed to believe storyline wise that HHH doesn't want to get revenge on a guy who shelved him and Taker is just going to ignore the guy who led to him having to rise up yet again?

It's just awful awful booking.

I mean honestly, if they would have brought back HHH a month ago and start building this then? Then super! HHH could have come out, talking about the fact that since his time away he's been able to reflect on what happened at "Mania, and how life hasn't been the same since he lost his friend because of the Undertaker. And he will hunt that man down and pay for this. HHH leaves the arena and we are left to guess what's up

This could have led to those 2/21/11 videos. Is that Taker in the shack? Is it HHH devising a plan? Two weeks later we see Taker is in there, but those boots outside? Is that HHH lurking in the shadows? Someone else?


But now we get this dreck, and two of their promising stars are buried in the process.
Again this... All of this

You know they should have just not done the 2.21.11 thing, it absolutely over hyped what amounted to some fan pyro/lighting and then a what seemed like 10 minute stare down, it was utterally boring.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:30 AM   #389
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I am not saying Barrett and Sheamus haven't been booked badly. Like I said, they could have made it work.

But I am talking about right now. Can't change the past, and at this point, HHH vs Taker seems like the best choice right now. Would feel awkward if Barrett and Shaemus went from the limbo state they have been on lately, to being in big matches at mania.

So yeah, shitty booking, but as for the here and now, I'd rather see Taker vs HHH.

Give them a chance to fuck that one up too, before you condemn it.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:30 AM   #390
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All of that except the Morrison thing. He's still doing good. Though he kinda got squashed by Punk tonight.
They're turning Morrison into Jeff Hardy, a spot monkey, though he had some great psychology between last night and tonight, which makes him way better than Jeff Hardy.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:32 AM   #391
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They have the entire rest of the year to push Barrett and Sheamus. Plenty of wrestlers got over just fine not having matches with Taker at Mania. HHH/Taker is the best draw.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:34 AM   #392
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Morrison is fine where he is right now. Turn him heel again and I can buy him taking that next step. Because he has the in ring skills, but he doesn't really know how to talk, as a face yet imo.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:36 AM   #393
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Morrison should be doing big spots because A) he can do them B) he can't talk C) it's getting him a reaction.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:38 AM   #394
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Morrison should be doing big spots because A) he can do them B) he can't talk C) it's getting him a reaction.
He can talk just not as a face.

It's funny he works a face style but talks a heel style.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:45 AM   #395
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I would like to see Morrison now, wrestle the old RVD in the old ECW... WOuld be A GREAT MATCH.... etc Kid Kash or Jerry Lynn vs RVD (didnt expect great matches... but you got them anyway) Morrison has paid dues....I can see him with the belt... if not RAW's... then Smackdown's
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:45 AM   #396
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Also, I wouldn't consider Morrison a spot monkey. Crazy as the stuff he does is, it makes sense in the context of the match, the spots are built up to pretty well, and he doesn't overdo it. He'll do one or two in a big match. Not seventeen flippity flops in a 5 minute match, like people who rightly deserve that moniker.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:47 AM   #397
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Also, I wouldn't consider Morrison a spot monkey. Crazy as the stuff he does is, it makes sense in the context of the match, the spots are built up to pretty well, and he doesn't overdo it. He'll do one or two in a big match. Not seventeen flippity flops in a 5 minute match, like people who rightly deserve that moniker.
hmmm great point

the rumble spot is historic
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:12 AM   #398
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Morrison is also the man at selling. His match at TLC with Sheamus was pretty amazing.
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:18 AM   #399
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Morrison is also the man at selling. His match at TLC with Sheamus was pretty amazing.

Both he and Punk did a bang up job tonight selling the EC match from last night. Funny that Cena and Orton were perfectly fine *sigh*
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:28 AM   #400
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R-Truth did the best selling tonight of the Chamber.
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