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Old 05-14-2012, 07:21 PM   #41
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oh ffs shut up St. Jimmy. Just because Hogan wasn't jerk off material for you workrate queers doesn't diminish him. Hogan was BY FAR the biggest heel in wrestling from mid 96 to 1999
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:23 PM   #42
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This is what I love. The lard ass douchebags smarks find a wrestler who is "over" without their approval and they either play it down, or say It's XPac heat".
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:25 PM   #43
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You can use whatever warped perception you want, but in 1997-1998 fans wanted to KILL Shawn Michaels. No one ever wanted to Kill hogan.

Shawn in 97-99 would've torn Hogan to Shreds in promos. The fans would've automatically sided with Hogan if they were fueding. Shawn had THAT kind of heat.

Your simple compare/contrast argument doesn't work.
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:27 PM   #44
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I dunno. Hogan was a pretty huge heel at the time.
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:33 PM   #45
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Lol you mean the 100 people watching the WWF during that time wanted to kill HBK. WWF was the WCW's bitch during that time, so I don't see how you can say HBK was the biggest heel when

1. He was done for a while after April of 1998

2. NOBODY watched the WWF during that era

3. Hogan's heel turn was and is the most talked about and prominant turn in wrestling history
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:06 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by MoFo View Post
Says something that nobody can bring up Bret Hart without Shawn Michaels name tagged to it.

Bret was defined by HBK, not true the other way round.

Not sure wat point I'm trying to make here but def HBK > Bret.
Well that's simply bogus. HBK rebirthed his career that spanned a decade after Bret was forced into retirement. The first half of his career is defined by Bret Hart. The second half of Harts career is defined by HBK.

Both are extremely accomplished for many different reasons.
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:08 PM   #47
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Yeah from 1996-1998 Hogan was massive as a heel. HBK was gone before WWF really started hammering WCW.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:54 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
The problem was it was focused on two extremely established guys not in need of the feud to get themselves over. Surely they could have worked with other guys and got THEM over. Neither guy needed that feud to last as long as it did.

Michaels feud with Jericho on the other hand served a FAR greater purpose and I think resonates more and really helped develop Michaels' character.
triple h put o ver alot of the other mans in the wrestling show usibng his own momentam
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:55 AM   #49
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Triple H is probably the best heel ever.
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:50 AM   #50
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Quote:
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Triple H is probably the best heel ever.
Clearly you've never watched Jake the Snake, Randy Savage, Ric Flair, or dozens of others.
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Old 05-15-2012, 11:08 AM   #51
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Greatest heels ever were billy and chuck bc everyone hates the gays
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Old 05-15-2012, 02:03 PM   #52
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Quote:
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Clearly you've never watched Jake the Snake, Randy Savage, Ric Flair, or dozens of others.
You've probably never pulled your head out of your fucking ass.
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Old 05-15-2012, 02:58 PM   #53
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Hogan was the biggest heel in wrestling until around 1998 when Vince took that title.
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:13 PM   #54
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Quote:
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You've probably never pulled your head out of your fucking ass.
Come on James, stop taking this debate so personally, I get that he is your favourite wrestler but you act like a 7 year old in defending him. Almost as though you are trolling... very disappointing.

Anyways, those guys got over without being put over EVERY SINGLE person in the company. The problem with HHH is the booking direction was always there to remind you how much above everyone he was.

HHH is really good, even great, and a legend in his own right, but he's just not on the all time scale like those guys.

What HHH was great at was playing the game which is why he is the game. A lot of the all time greats didn't "play the game" and that's why they're not running the company.
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Old 05-16-2012, 03:02 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertner View Post
This is what I love. The lard ass douchebags smarks find a wrestler who is "over" without their approval and they either play it down, or say It's XPac heat".
LOL, that's kind of ironic, isn't it? You're someone who can't admit Daniel Bryan is over, for crying out loud.

You are entirely right about Hogan being the biggest heel at that time, however.

Financially, I'd be curious to know who the best heel of all-time actually is. My gut is telling me that it would be either Hogan or Triple H. By "financially," I mean which heel got people putting down the most cash to see them beaten. Which heel managed to go up against the most successful babyface? The WWE's year in 2000 was absolutely epic, and there's no doubt that Triple H was the heel of that period. He lulled a bit after that with shitty reigns in 2002, 2003 and so on, but his stuff with The Rock made the WWE a lot of money in 2000.
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:03 PM   #56
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I remember attending a WCW House Show in 1998 at the Palace of Auburn Hills in Michigan which holds well over 18,000 and it was sold out, The card was meh, but the main event was Hogan vs Sting in a cage. Pretty amazing that a House Show sold out. People HATED Hogan and couldn't wait to see Sting beat him.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:11 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
Clearly you've never watched Jake the Snake, Randy Savage, Ric Flair, or dozens of others.
Ric Flair is the only comparison here that is even arguable.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:15 AM   #58
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I can't really compare Flair's earlier career to Triple H's career because of the time frames and differences in wrestling between those times, but it feels like Flair used to be a great wrestler/heel without really being "over" so much in the past 15 years or so. Just seems like that last stretch of time has been a saggy old guy bringing back a nostalgia trip that tends to hang around for a bit.
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Old 05-17-2012, 03:59 PM   #59
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Quote:
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I can't really compare Flair's earlier career to Triple H's career because of the time frames and differences in wrestling between those times, but it feels like Flair used to be a great wrestler/heel without really being "over" so much in the past 15 years or so. Just seems like that last stretch of time has been a saggy old guy bringing back a nostalgia trip that tends to hang around for a bit.
That's because he's a sad, old, broken down man.

The guys I mentioned were awesome more consistantly than HHH. HHH was BIG in 2000, he literally could step in shit and come up smelling like roses. Absolutely incredible that year, it was kind of ridiculous. But he was never TRULY the same after the quad injury. Mind you he still had classics but not with the same consistency and became a bit of a snooze fest and the E really began to decline. The one thing I credit him for, is he still gets that big league reaction when he enters the arena. I also hold it against him, because he hasn't given anyone the rub to get that same reaction. Given the fact he's running the company essentially, you think he'd want to create new stars. Literally all he'd have to do is have one of his 5 star classics which he is capable of and put any guy over clean. But he chooses not to.

HHH played the game better than everyone though, It's why he is where he is. He tickled the right ass, worked hard when it was most necessary and buried who he had to. Wrestling is a cut throat business and I do not have any ill-regard toward HHH for what he has done for himself, but he is not the quintessential team player like a Jake Roberts and a Randy Savage. Those 2 weren't kiss asses.. They were renegades and were from a different era.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:51 PM   #60
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What in the fuck are you on about? Did Triple H not make 2 of the biggest stars of the past 7 years in Batista and Randy Orton? Did Triple H not tap out to Benoit at WMXX? Triple H helped Jeff Hardy go from over to megastar during his SmackDown! run. You have got to be shitting me. Pull your head out of your fucking ass and realize it isn't 2003 anymore.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:52 PM   #61
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HHH was basically over because he was forced down our throats. He's like Cena. He got over because he just sucks so bad.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:59 PM   #62
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HHH was basically over because he was forced down our throats. He's like Cena. He got over because he just sucks so bad.
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:02 PM   #63
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hahahahaha oh for fuck sake, HHH did not MAKE Randy Orton. In fact he fucking buried him and set his character back 2 years. Oh and their feud a few years back, it started hot, but then they shit all over it with the fucking retarded angle where HHH attacked him in his home then squashed him at Mania, yeah he really MADE Orton. And look where Orton is now, middling around doing jackshit.

Batista I'll give you but really it's not like Batista is some massive star.

Tapping out to Benoit after being in the crossface for about 5 minutes was decent of him, but hardly starmaking. Benoit already had his reputation. It was a nod of respect, and HHH knew he wouldn't be hurt by it.

How about what he did with CM Punk? Why did he go over Punk? Why was he even involved in that angle?

Or after he gave Sheamus a "rub" when Sheamus injured him, he came back and squashed him like a little bitch.

Or both times he's come back to face Taker at Mania and let everyone know that no other match and no other superstar matters other than him and Taker.

Oh and Jeff Hardy, a roll up victory after he spent most of the early 2000s squashing him.

Compare what HHH has done as a whole compared to a Flair, Hart or Michaels. Flair made Sting and Steamboat, Hart and Michaels both had a hand in making Austin.

HHH as made no icons. He's spent most of his time sort of existing. Had some great matches, but he is not some god of wrestling like he keeps telling you he is.
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:05 PM   #64
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Imagine if CM Punk was given 45 minutes on the mic every single RAW, and 55 minute main events with a hell in a cell against the undertaker when he decided he wanted to. And the commentators kept telling the audience that he was the greatest force in pro wrestling EVER. And then kept getting put over clean, even when ratings were declining, and the decline was always blamed solely on his opponents.
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:07 PM   #65
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You are fucking delusional. Do you even watch WWE? Batista was one of the hottest things in wrestling after his Triple H feud. Triple H helped cement Cena as "the man" at WM22. It made sense for Orton to lose to HHH at Mania 25 because of the storyline.
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:09 PM   #66
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Quote:
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Imagine if CM Punk was given 45 minutes on the mic every single RAW, and 55 minute main events with a hell in a cell against the undertaker when he decided he wanted to. And the commentators kept telling the audience that he was the greatest force in pro wrestling EVER. And then kept getting put over clean, even when ratings were declining, and the decline was always blamed solely on his opponents.
Triple H has won 2 matches since WrestleMania 26.
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Old 05-19-2012, 04:27 PM   #67
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Triple H DEFINITELY made both Batista and Cena.
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:33 PM   #68
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I don't think Triple H made Cena. He helped further Cena along, but made him? Also, for all the good Triple H did to Randy Orton, he did do some bad, too. Triple H going over Orton at Unforgiven 2004 was one of the dumbest booking decisions I can remember.
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:55 PM   #69
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I don't think Triple H made Cena. He helped further Cena along, but made him? Also, for all the good Triple H did to Randy Orton, he did do some bad, too. Triple H going over Orton at Unforgiven 2004 was one of the dumbest booking decisions I can remember.
He was sinking as a World Champion and they pulled the plug when they realized he clearly wasn't ready. Based on Orton's DVD, I think it also had to do with his behavior at the time and the next couple of years after that (he didn't win a World Title for over 3 years).
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:54 PM   #70
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The whole thing was very poorly written.
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:45 PM   #71
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HHH pretty much generated X Pac heat during his long run.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:46 AM   #72
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You are fucking delusional. Do you even watch WWE? Batista was one of the hottest things in wrestling after his Triple H feud. Triple H helped cement Cena as "the man" at WM22. It made sense for Orton to lose to HHH at Mania 25 because of the storyline.
Yes I am the one who is delusional. hahahaha. It's not like Hunter's a blood relative, I don't know why you hold onto him so dearly.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:59 AM   #73
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Triple H helped HBK through some tough times back in the late 90's, saved the DX concept back in 1998, he made the New Age Outlaws relevant, saved X-Pac's career (for a little bit), he made Batista, he made Randy Orton, he helped make Cena, he made Ric Flair relevant again.
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:04 AM   #74
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He did not make Randy Orton. Cena was already over without HHH.
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:08 AM   #75
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When Randy Orton won the Title and Triple H kicked him off Evolution, it gave Orton a huge push. So if he didn't make him, he certainly pushed him along.

When I think of a guy "making" someone, I don't think of taking a guy who's unknown and making him somebody, I think of the moment when that guy reaches a new level he hasn't previously been in.
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:53 PM   #76
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Cena was over before Triple H, but it wasn't until his match with Triple H that you knew without a shadow of a doubt that he was THE top dog. If not then, you could argue it was the match with Michaels at 23.
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Old 05-21-2012, 04:03 PM   #77
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Cena was over before Triple H, but it wasn't until his match with Triple H that you knew without a shadow of a doubt that he was THE top dog.
This, to me, is the definition of making someone.
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:19 PM   #78
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Same here.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:03 AM   #79
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The moment that "made" Cena, to me, would have been that night he defeated Chris Jericho with the duelling chants. I'm thinking it was SummerSlam 2005.
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Old 05-24-2012, 03:59 PM   #80
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I followed both their careers. HBK in ring performance more than made up for his character. He just wowed you. I was wowed by the Rockers and frustrated on them not getting the titles. I rooted for them hard yall. When HBK sidekick Jennety I couldn't believe it. But Marty disappeared for sometime b4 their short fued so i only had Michaels to watch. And he was awesome. His innovation in matches changed the bar. It was like bringing ECW to WWF(not as brutal but highflying dares). The ladder match shocked me beyond belief.

Hitman I was more a fan of when he was part of the Heart foundation. With Jim the anvil and jimmy the mouth of the south. He never wowed me but he made me respect him as a wrestler. And when he started saying the best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be, I believed him.

HBK wowed you
Hitman made u respect him
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