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Old 11-26-2015, 07:18 PM   #281
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My opinion Os that Barry hrowitz is better than the rock
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Old 11-26-2015, 09:11 PM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
2. Sting served his purpose. Long term money was building up a match between Hunter and Rollins. Having Hunter lose to someone like Sting would have hurt the money match. This is similar to the Booker discussion, where clearly Booker wasn't the right type of guy to go over HHH. A guy like Goldberg made more sense, which they did.

First Booker T isn't the right guy now Sting FREAKING STING isn't the right guy.
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Old 11-26-2015, 11:46 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by Vastardikai View Post
You overestimate his business acumen and underestimate his inferiority complex.
You know this how? You read it online? Have you ever talked to the man?
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Old 11-26-2015, 11:47 PM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
And I'm telling you, you think wrong.
Buyrates HHH dummies

House show revenue HHH dummies

Merchandise HHH dummies

Number of all time great moments and matches HHH dummies

Curious where you think Sting has HHH beat. Most TNA matches?
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Old 11-26-2015, 11:54 PM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maluco View Post
I love Triple H, but there is no way you are critiquing certain people for not having quotes or stats to back up some of their arguments, when surely you have made the same error with that statement.

There is absolutely no way to prove that Hunter made more money than Sting. There were very view events where Hunter was the main attraction (and by that I mean the reason the majority bought their ticket) and it would be impossible to count the money he made.

Same with Sting, but he was doing great business when Hunter was a jobber on his show. He did amazing business just by sitting in the rafters and watching matches. Sting is iconic and the face of WCW. If your opinion is that Hunter drew more due to his position and big matches, that's fine, but there is no way you can say he drew a lot more than Sting.

Sting is iconic and comfortably top 10 in GOAT debate, Hunter isn't IMO.
Sting in the rafters was the only period you could argue he made huge money for the company. Until Goldberg came along, he was the #1 face in WCW, without working. An amazing feat.

However, HHH has worked near or at the top of the card for call it 10+ Wrestlemanias, many of those were 60k+ fans in attendance. Sting headlined ONE PPV that did massive business, without looking I would say HHH probably was a key draw in 10+ PPVs that did way more than that, many doing in the million range.

HHH headlined with Austin and Rock on house show runs. I dont know what those did in terms of dollars, but no way Sting had a better run than that.

Business wise, I dont even think its close to be honest.
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Old 11-26-2015, 11:55 PM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
I dont think you even know anything about Sting other than his WWE appearances. Sting was winning World Heavyweight Championship while HHH was still terror rising.
White Castle of Fear. That is my response to that.
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Old 11-26-2015, 11:57 PM   #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
If Sting wins fans get behind him and buy mask, shirts and other merchandise. HHH is not going to seel anymore than what he has for years. Vince has money and doesnt worry about making the max dollar on guys he didnt create.
The only people who would be looking to buy Sting masks are likely now in their 30s or 40s. So I'm guessing sales would be minimal. Hard to imagine a new flock of kids seeing 50+ year old Sting and saying "thats my guy".

Gotta let go of your childhood hero man.
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Old 11-27-2015, 12:21 AM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Buyrates HHH dummies

House show revenue HHH dummies

Merchandise HHH dummies

Number of all time great moments and matches HHH dummies

Curious where you think Sting has HHH beat. Most TNA matches?
Do you have actual numbers to back up these claims? I'm not debating with whether or not they're true. Just curious if there's factual evidence to support this.
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Old 11-27-2015, 12:24 AM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Buyrates HHH dummies

House show revenue HHH dummies

Merchandise HHH dummies

Number of all time great moments and matches HHH dummies

Curious where you think Sting has HHH beat. Most TNA matches?
Overall career quality. I guess you've never considered that Sting EARNED the right to be called "The Icon".
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Old 11-27-2015, 12:54 AM   #290
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I've said it before and I'll say it again It does not matter how many times Triple H has been champ and as bad as the WWE would love for us to think so no matter how many DVDs they put out proclaimng how great he is, HHH is NOT ON THE SAME LEVEL as Taker,Austin,Rock,HBK or Sting. there is a reason no one was clamoring to see Taker V Triple H at mania there is a reason People regarded Sting v Taker as a dream match.

I know it hurts but its true He's second banana at best 3rd tier support character at worst.
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Old 11-27-2015, 01:14 AM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
The only people who would be looking to buy Sting masks are likely now in their 30s or 40s. So I'm guessing sales would be minimal. Hard to imagine a new flock of kids seeing 50+ year old Sting and saying "thats my guy".

Gotta let go of your childhood hero man.
Kids don't root for 50 year olds? OK here's where I have a problem with your logic. You say the program is tailored to the kids but WWE can't build up an Icon in this business good eneogh to sell Sting mask to kids. Kids will still root for Sting today and if they dont that just goes to show you how bad HHH did in their program. I suppose kids weren't cheering Undertaker any during Undertaker week seeing how old he is and all.
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Old 11-27-2015, 01:21 AM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
Kids don't root for 50 year olds? OK here's where I have a problem with your logic. You say the program is tailored to the kids but WWE can't build up an Icon in this business good eneogh to sell Sting mask to kids. Kids will still root for Sting today and if they dont that just goes to show you how bad HHH did in their program. I suppose kids weren't cheering Undertaker any during Undertaker week seeing how old he is and all.
My youngest nephew is about 9 and (through no fault of mine) he is IN LOVE with UT to the point where we have to get him everything taker related his mom got the WWE network because he asked for more Taker.

Shit there's a video of a special needs child who requested to meet Taker.
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Old 11-27-2015, 08:50 AM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRA View Post
My youngest nephew is about 9 and (through no fault of mine) he is IN LOVE with UT to the point where we have to get him everything taker related his mom got the WWE network because he asked for more Taker.

Shit there's a video of a special needs child who requested to meet Taker.
You're not seriously comparing Sting to Taker are you? Taker has a legacy in the company that's lasted over a quarter century. Sting is not at a point where he can build such a legacy in WWE. He's gotta live off what people remember. I'm guessing a 9 year old doesn't remember Sting's WCW run.
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Old 11-27-2015, 08:52 AM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
Kids don't root for 50 year olds? OK here's where I have a problem with your logic. You say the program is tailored to the kids but WWE can't build up an Icon in this business good eneogh to sell Sting mask to kids. Kids will still root for Sting today and if they dont that just goes to show you how bad HHH did in their program. I suppose kids weren't cheering Undertaker any during Undertaker week seeing how old he is and all.
I don't think Sting is good enough at this stage of his career to justify pushing him to the point you would need to to get little kids behind him. And if they did, watch how quickly people on here would "lol wwe they are pushing a 50 year old over Kevin Owens"
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Old 11-27-2015, 12:02 PM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Sting in the rafters was the only period you could argue he made huge money for the company. Until Goldberg came along, he was the #1 face in WCW, without working. An amazing feat.

However, HHH has worked near or at the top of the card for call it 10+ Wrestlemanias, many of those were 60k+ fans in attendance. Sting headlined ONE PPV that did massive business, without looking I would say HHH probably was a key draw in 10+ PPVs that did way more than that, many doing in the million range.

HHH headlined with Austin and Rock on house show runs. I dont know what those did in terms of dollars, but no way Sting had a better run than that.

Business wise, I dont even think its close to be honest.
HHH was at those events and main evented many, but I just wonder how many people bought their tickets to see HHH, or even to see HHH get his comeuppance. He was a supporting star and I don't think you could argue that he sold tickets on his own.

Sting sold tickets on his name alone across quite a wide generation, people of all ages came to see Sting. I think that is the difference.

In saying that, I wouldn't use him at all now because I feel his time has passed and totally agree with you on that point.

Triple H drawing a lot more than Sting is dubious though.
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Old 11-27-2015, 12:28 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
You're not seriously comparing Sting to Taker are you? Taker has a legacy in the company that's lasted over a quarter century. Sting is not at a point where he can build such a legacy in WWE. He's gotta live off what people remember. I'm guessing a 9 year old doesn't remember Sting's WCW run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I don't think Sting is good enough at this stage of his career to justify pushing him to the point you would need to to get little kids behind him. And if they did, watch how quickly people on here would "lol wwe they are pushing a 50 year old over Kevin Owens"
Yeah Sting and Taker a very comparable, they both have legacys. My point is WWE hasnt capitalized on Stings and have left money off the table. Stings and kids go hand and hand with each other. Kids are smarter than you make them out to be. Sting doesnt have to be pushed to the moon. Why sign him if he didn't justify the selling some merchandise to kids. Like said its WWE and Vince's job to tell Stings story but all they did was stick to killing WCW again. HHH/Sting shouldn't have been anything about WCW but that's what they made it. The only time they used Sting right was the build to Night of Champions as he was playing mind games and messing with Rollins. Sting should have came in and had a big win to build him up and then been used to put talent over. I have no problem with Sting doing the job to Rollins but Rollins had just lost a match to Cena that made Sting look even weaker and did nothing for Rollins.
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Old 11-27-2015, 12:52 PM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
You're not seriously comparing Sting to Taker are you? Taker has a legacy in the company that's lasted over a quarter century. Sting is not at a point where he can build such a legacy in WWE. He's gotta live off what people remember. I'm guessing a 9 year old doesn't remember Sting's WCW run.
My point is that age doesn't factor in kids like who they like.

For myself I discovered I liked Piper as a kid I knew nothing of his previous work before showed up to challenge Hollywood hogan and by then Piper was no where near the worker he was.

You really think kids have to have an extensive knowledge of a wrestlers body of work in order to like them?
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Old 11-27-2015, 01:16 PM   #298
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I have paid to see Triple H.
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Old 11-27-2015, 03:10 PM   #299
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I have paid to see Triple H.
I have paid to see Triple H
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Old 11-27-2015, 03:10 PM   #300
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Old 11-27-2015, 03:13 PM   #301
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Quote:
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My point is that age doesn't factor in kids like who they like.

For myself I discovered I liked Piper as a kid I knew nothing of his previous work before showed up to challenge Hollywood hogan and by then Piper was no where near the worker he was.

You really think kids have to have an extensive knowledge of a wrestlers body of work in order to like them?
No I just don't think a kid would look at Sting and get behind him, because just about everyone on the roster moves better than him. If they wanted to cheer for a face painter, they would cheer for Balor.

People who were fans of Sting want to see him win because of his legacy, but when you factor in his age and how little he will work, I don't see who on the roster you put him against that would have a big match feel and be willing to put him over. Maybe a guy like Jericho as a one off, but putting him over multiple guys makes no sense to me.
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Old 11-27-2015, 03:17 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maluco View Post
HHH was at those events and main evented many, but I just wonder how many people bought their tickets to see HHH, or even to see HHH get his comeuppance. He was a supporting star and I don't think you could argue that he sold tickets on his own.

Sting sold tickets on his name alone across quite a wide generation, people of all ages came to see Sting. I think that is the difference.

In saying that, I wouldn't use him at all now because I feel his time has passed and totally agree with you on that point.

Triple H drawing a lot more than Sting is dubious though.
Bischoff said he shut down most of WCWs touring when he started. That would have been when Sting was one of the top guys in WCW.

Sting's real drawing period was the height of the NWO. So at best he would be sharing those numbers with them. And compared to Hunter's run on top, it was a short period of time.

Figuring out a star's drawing ability is murky at best, but like I said, I just don't see it as being close.
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Old 11-27-2015, 04:40 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
No I just don't think a kid would look at Sting and get behind him, because just about everyone on the roster moves better than him. If they wanted to cheer for a face painter, they would cheer for Balor.

People who were fans of Sting want to see him win because of his legacy, but when you factor in his age and how little he will work, I don't see who on the roster you put him against that would have a big match feel and be willing to put him over. Maybe a guy like Jericho as a one off, but putting him over multiple guys makes no sense to me.
You don't have to have him go over multiple guys. He should have had won against HHH to build him then have him put over younger talent. Sting could have great programs with guys like Stardust, Wyatt, and Cesaro to put them over. A kid takes one look at Sting and thinks he is cool, their not going to notice his speed. For you to say kids wont get behind Sting is just dumb.Its sad when TNA books Sting better on his way out than WWE has so far.
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Old 11-27-2015, 04:44 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
You don't have to have him go over multiple guys. He should have had won against HHH to build him then have him put over younger talent. Sting could have great programs with guys like Stardust, Wyatt, and Cesaro to put them over. A kid takes one look at Sting and thinks he is cool, their not going to notice his speed. For you to say kids wont get behind Sting is just dumb.Its sad when TNA books Sting better on his way out than WWE has so far.
Anyone but Hunter

I get it now.
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Old 11-27-2015, 08:45 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Anyone but Hunter

I get it now.
lol oh stuff it. Does Hunter really need it? He's the frigging COO of the company. Come on. Sting with a BIG win over HHH could put over a big talent. If Sting had beaten HHH and lost to Rollins, the win has about a bajillion times more meaning, as opposed to a win in a filler ppv nobody will remember.

Use your head CyNick.
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Old 11-27-2015, 09:28 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
You know this how? You read it online? Have you ever talked to the man?
I heard it from a number of sources, including Corny, who actually, you know, WORKED for the guy.

Also, inferiority complex can easily explain the XFL, WBF, WWE studios, etc. He is ashamed to be in the business, and tries to prove himself the head of a media empire.

Also, inferiority complex can why he frames the Monday Night Wars as Vince vs. Turner, when in reality it was Vince vs. Bischoff. Turner didn't even have Vince on his radar. He couldn't see himself getting upstaged by Verne Gagne's coffee go-fer.

Hell, look up the McMyth's podcast HB2K (iirc) posted that was filled with his delusions.
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Old 11-27-2015, 09:42 PM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
lol oh stuff it. Does Hunter really need it? He's the frigging COO of the company. Come on. Sting with a BIG win over HHH could put over a big talent. If Sting had beaten HHH and lost to Rollins, the win has about a bajillion times more meaning, as opposed to a win in a filler ppv nobody will remember.

Use your head CyNick.
I honestly dont understand why this is an issue.

They had a larger story they were telling that was more important than Sting. That was HHH being the over achieving father figure to Rollins, who sets the bar really high. If you notice, Seth was starting to pass all the "tests". Then when he failed against Roman, you would have had HHH rip into Seth, and Seth would have stood up to HHH to prove he's the man. You cant play out that story if HHH loses to a 50 year old man who has no history in the company.
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Old 11-27-2015, 09:49 PM   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastardikai View Post
I heard it from a number of sources, including Corny, who actually, you know, WORKED for the guy.

Also, inferiority complex can easily explain the XFL, WBF, WWE studios, etc. He is ashamed to be in the business, and tries to prove himself the head of a media empire.

Also, inferiority complex can why he frames the Monday Night Wars as Vince vs. Turner, when in reality it was Vince vs. Bischoff. Turner didn't even have Vince on his radar. He couldn't see himself getting upstaged by Verne Gagne's coffee go-fer.

Hell, look up the McMyth's podcast HB2K (iirc) posted that was filled with his delusions.
I believe Cornette made statements giving his opinion on Vince making decisions that he didnt agree with, and therefore made the correlation that Vince makes decisions that are not best for business.

LOL. He's tried on multiple occasions to EXPAND his business to other forms of entertainment. Admittedly those were failures, but it doesn't mean he's ashamed of the sports entertainment indutry, hell, he invented it as we know it.

If it wasnt Turner vs Vince, why did Turner call Vince to tell him he was in the "wrasslin" business? Saying it was Eric vs Vince is an insult to Vince, because Eric didnt own WCW. I dont know if you have ever owned a company, but when you are putting everything on the line, its different than some guy who is just drawing a paycheque. Now, on Ted's side, WCW was a small portion of his overall empire, whereas for Vince it was his everything. Which is probably why Vince ultimately won.

Sorry, Mcmyths? I have no idea who that is, and I certainly have no idea what type of connection they have to Vince to know if they are just another parrot of the Dirt Sheets or actually have some useful information to share.
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Old 11-27-2015, 09:51 PM   #309
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Old 11-27-2015, 09:56 PM   #310
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There were only so many of these, you will run out quickly.
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Old 11-27-2015, 10:07 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I

Sorry, Mcmyths? I have no idea who that is, and I certainly have no idea what type of connection they have to Vince to know if they are just another parrot of the Dirt Sheets or actually have some useful information to share.
Okay you are legit just a massive troll at this point. McMyths are actual myths perpetuated by the WWE that factually just aren't true. Not reported by the dirt sheets, just shit that doesn't add up. It can be verified just by watching their own product.

McMyth#1) DX "invading" WCW some how was the apex of the Monday Night Wars. Watch it. Nothing happened. Nobody gave a shit. It was a silly crappy angle. And yet, they perpetuate this nonsense in every fucking video about DX. That's not dirtsheet reporting, that's just people using their brains.

If you wish to be an actual contributor to this forum and not have people disparage you, maybe interact like less of a twat, and be smart like you're capable of being.


For now, I am retiring from CyNick world because you talk at me, not to me. Wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you're being too much of a knob. Keep in mind I remember your initial run on the forum where you were being a troll then too, just on exactly the opposite end with pretty much the polar opposite bullshit arguments which made no sense then. So pretty much, you're parodying yourself, and it's getting to the point of silliness.
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Old 11-27-2015, 10:08 PM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Anyone but Hunter

I get it now.
Its about damn time. The money is not in Sting/HHH if your just going to have Sting job. There is more money in jobbing Sting to Taker, Cena, or even Wyatt. HHH could have jobbed to Sting then had Rollins beat Sting to start that tension between the 2. The point is Vince has left money off the table with Sting and you can't deny that. I don't know if he does it on purpose or he has just lost touch but he has a trend of burying WCW guys. Before you spout off about WM20 think about when Eddie, Benoit, Jericho, and Big Show all jumped ship to WWF.

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Old 11-27-2015, 10:09 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
There were only so many of these, you will run out quickly.
Vince only has one ass and you kiss it a lot.
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Old 11-27-2015, 10:16 PM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
Okay you are legit just a massive troll at this point. McMyths are actual myths perpetuated by the WWE that factually just aren't true. Not reported by the dirt sheets, just shit that doesn't add up. It can be verified just by watching their own product.

McMyth#1) DX "invading" WCW some how was the apex of the Monday Night Wars. Watch it. Nothing happened. Nobody gave a shit. It was a silly crappy angle. And yet, they perpetuate this nonsense in every fucking video about DX. That's not dirtsheet reporting, that's just people using their brains.

If you wish to be an actual contributor to this forum and not have people disparage you, maybe interact like less of a twat, and be smart like you're capable of being.


For now, I am retiring from CyNick world because you talk at me, not to me. Wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you're being too much of a knob. Keep in mind I remember your initial run on the forum where you were being a troll then too, just on exactly the opposite end with pretty much the polar opposite bullshit arguments which made no sense then. So pretty much, you're parodying yourself, and it's getting to the point of silliness.
Or, before Vince, wrestling events was only taking in smoky bars and high school gyms. However, even under Vince Sr. they were headlining MSG with Bruno and many territories were holding big shows in sold out baseball stadiums.

Or WM3 was the most heavily attended WWF event of all time. It was actually Summerslam '92 in Wembly.
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Old 11-27-2015, 10:17 PM   #315
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That is simply nonsense perpetuated by the dirtsheets.
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Old 11-27-2015, 10:25 PM   #316
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Don't forget the mom and pop shop gimmick that was poached of talent by the evil Ted Turner, even though Vince was buying out territories and poaching talent while loading up for and supporting his new global vision of a wrestling company.
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Old 11-27-2015, 10:26 PM   #317
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What are you talking about? That just sounds like more malarky put forth by that hack David Q. Meltzer.
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Old 11-28-2015, 06:10 PM   #318
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Quote:
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Or, before Vince, wrestling events was only taking in smoky bars and high school gyms. However, even under Vince Sr. they were headlining MSG with Bruno and many territories were holding big shows in sold out baseball stadiums.

Or WM3 was the most heavily attended WWF event of all time. It was actually Summerslam '92 in Wembly.
80,355 > 93,173?
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Old 11-28-2015, 06:19 PM   #319
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I could be and have been wrong before, but I have often heard claims that WM3 attendance numbers were overinflated.
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Old 11-28-2015, 08:55 PM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
McMyth#1) DX "invading" WCW some how was the apex of the Monday Night Wars. Watch it. Nothing happened. Nobody gave a shit. It was a silly crappy angle. And yet, they perpetuate this nonsense in every fucking video about DX. That's not dirtsheet reporting, that's just people using their brains.
Best part of this McMyth was WWE supposedly told them to bail if WCW sent Meng after them. Even the WWE feared Meng more than they did WCW.
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